We have enough talent on this team to make it to the tourney but it does not reside with many of our more seasoned players. Especially on the mound. I don't expect to see anyone who pitched last season in the starting rotation to start SEC play.
Lemonis has got some tough but inevitable decisions to make....
- Thread starter thekimmer
- Start date
I haven’t given up yet on Cade so long as he’s healthy. He did have an awful outing on Friday, but we’ve seen what he can do over a full season against SEC competition. He and Gartman are one in the same to me when they are both pitching up to their potential. Kohn may factor in as well if he gets healthy, but who knows. He’s losing more ground himself every day to the new guys, and at present time he’s probably going to be in the pen again. But KC Hunt needs to be midweek only at this point, and maybe not even as a starter.
I expect that we will try Loftin or Loo again against a good USM team, and the other will get a shot on Friday against Ohio State. Then Ynetma again on Saturday and either Cade or Gartman on Sunday. The other option is to move Ynetma to Friday, Loo / Loftin on Saturday, and a combo of Smith / Gartman on Sunday. I selfishly hope its Loo on Friday night with the possibility of also being a Sunday reliever, but I don’t know if he’s ready yet for that level of a workload.
Regarding the staff, I know most haven’t been happy with the consistency. Me either. But we do have a lot more pieces to work with than I originally envisioned. If Tyler Davis and Bradley Holcombe continue to deliver good outings like they did this weekend, we could have a pretty good pen and group of weekend starters if we can ever find a Friday guy.
Last edited:
Both KC and Cade have more walks this year than they do strikeouts. Was really bothering to see on Friday night with the bases loaded and us down 9-0 that KC proceeded to walk two straight batters.
You play the young guys. We aren't a national championship team atm, and playing the young guys is a great recruiting tool. I've always felt that MSU for some reason has been overly conservative in playing freshmen (in all sports). Get the young guys reps, get us ready for next year, and win over some HS kids in the interim. Would you rather have a freshman/soph out there making a couple of mistakes but making us better down the road or have a stale Jr/Sr that isn't pushing the team forward? Especially if you know it's not your year.
If Cade Smith is trotted out there to start Friday night, I will be pissed. Cade has earned his spot in the bullpen in mop up duty until he can prove he can throw strikes.
Loftin and Cjintje have earned their way into weekend games. I know they're young, but you have to try them over Cade at this point.
Loftin and Cjintje have earned their way into weekend games. I know they're young, but you have to try them over Cade at this point.
Mostly agree. Cade is the Sunday guy if he’s still a weekend starter at all. But I think he’s probably still one of our 3 best starters when he’s on. His performance against VMI wasn’t bad at all. I just don’t see him being banished to the pen / midweek due to a single dud of a game after being our only reliable starter all of last season. If he repeats it in the next week or two, by all means make that move.
Either way, its time to try one of the young guys in the Friday slot. Either Loftin, Loo, or Ynetma.
I don't see the hard decisions. You can win with freshmen on the mound in the SEC. Tennessee did it last year.
Bigger question for me is what to do in LF. Everything else seems settled. Jordan's production doesn't justify the strikeouts. I'd like to see Hujsak for a while. Or at least move Jordan down in the order.
Bigger question for me is what to do in LF. Everything else seems settled. Jordan's production doesn't justify the strikeouts. I'd like to see Hujsak for a while. Or at least move Jordan down in the order.
My issue with Smith is you just cannot have an outing like that from a third year guy.
The larger problem here resides with Foxhall. With only a couple of exceptions, the longer a pitcher is with him the bigger headcase they become. Every year we have an absolute stud or 2 that all of a sudden can't throw strikes. When said stud hits the minor leagues they all of a sudden find it again. I hope Lemonis and crew will address the Foxhall issue instead of letting our freshmen cover it up and then watch them get progressively worse like those that came before them.
Lemonis has already moved to the idea that younger players are going to get starts. I am not a fan of anyone who can’t find the strike zone. Last Friday night the ASU pitchers threw strikes; the State pitchers didn’t. Two games in neither of those pitchers could find the strike zone. Do your job or ride the pine (although I doubt we have any thing like pine at the Dude.)
I think it happens more often than you realize. Just about every weekend starter (and even MLB rotation guys) are going to have at least 1 or 2 WTF performances where they can’t locate over the course of 4-5 months of baseball. If it becomes a trend, you bench him. He’s on a short leash at this point.
Maybe the coaches have already seen enough and the young talent is just that much better, I don’t know. But my guess is he gets at least one more weekend start, but not on Friday.
Who are these studs that lost it but then found it in the minors?
The only guy I know that might potentially fit that description is Christian McLeod, but he only has 1.2 total innings pitched since he was drafted in 2021. Meaning, he either had TJ right after he got drafted (which would explain a lot of his 2021 issues), or he just quit baseball. Either way, he didn’t find anything in MiLB.
Foxhall deserves every bit of sh*t he can catch for the pitchers in the 2021 recruiting class, zero of whom have thrown a pitch in the 2023 season and only one of whom is still even on the roster. If there’s grounds for his departure, you have to start there. Jury is still out on if / how guys are getting worse without knowing specifics on their arm health.
Last edited:
After mississippi's miracle run last year I will never say that again
Difference is, everyone knew all year that Mississippi team had tons of potential, but was underachieving in the regular season. Don't see that kind of potential with this team. I could see us making the NCAAT, but probably not hosting or winning a regional.
Maybe 2022 OM was not a great example, but I assure you this team has far, far more talent than 2016 Coastal Carolina and that Fresno State team from several years back. You just never know.
Agree with you there. The baseball tournament is one huge crapshoot.
It’s not a question at all. You play Dakotah Jordan. Certainly fine to move him down in the order, but he must play most every day. His potential is off the charts. He can tear the cover off the baseball. He just needs to figure out pitch selection and how to hit off speed stuff. The only way to do that is to play and get experience seeing pitches.
I think the only thing settled about the OF is that Ledbetter has to play every day. I think Jordan is still the better defender in CF and the recent move of Ledbetter there is just so the coaches can try some things with the lineup. Ideally you want Ledbetter and Jordan out there for what they offer all-around, and you just platoon RF between Huj and Clark if that’s what makes sense. Stick Bryce Chance out there a little bit too when it makes sense.
I disagree. I don't think this gets fixed this year, he's a true freshman. I think that level of development is something that needs to be worked on in summer ball.
Jordan will most certainly be the 3-hole hitter next year. He reminds me a LOT of Hunter Renfroe, and we didn't sit there and allow him to just hack away his first year in 2011.
You gotta give Jordan a shot to figure it out. His bat to ball skills are elite and the ball comes off his bat differently. His ceiling is so high that you have to give him some time to see if he can put it together. If he can, we'll have something special at the right time of the season.
The announcers were saying walks were up across the board in college baseball. They attributed it to the new clock. It is interesting that the clock isn't bothering the new players. I understand that Arkansas coach is throwing a fit over the new rules to speed up the game. Some of Arky's games last year took 4 1/2 hours to complete.
Jordan is a lot more refined than Renfroe was as a freshmen….played a much higher level of high school ball and also started playing earlier. He’s already got 6 more AB’s and 3 more starts than Renfroe had in all of 2011, and is hitting .066 higher than he did, too. It’s pretty clear the coaches view him as a very necessary piece for this season.
I just noticed he's also a 2-year player (assuming he's good enough to go pro after next year), so yeah I guess there's something to that.
But we have to move him down in the order at this point. He's not going to see anything but curves the rest of the season.
The decisions shouldn't be that hard. Play who's playing best even if they're freshmen.
I wouldn't say Jordan played a much higher level of HS ball. They both played private school ball in central Mississippi in the higher classifications and played a lot of the same schools. The talent was very similar. But I don't disagree with anything else you said. Let him figure it out
Woodruff is the only one I remember. It's a hard standard b/c a lot of these guys, even if they figure out some control, there's still the challenge of being good enough to get called up if somebody is really going to believe they figured it out. Fristoe and Cerantola will be the next ones to watch. Cerantola never had it, so he's not very indicative. But if Fristoe comes out and knows how to pitch this year and is not a basket case, that will look bad for Foxhall.
Woodruff was like 6 years prior to Foxhall arriving. And he had arm issues the whole time he was here, anyway.
Fristoe has yet to throw a minor league pitch, which is strange. I wonder if he had something going on health-wise as well. But Fristoe never really had it here, either….so I’m not sure he’s a great example of a guy that got worse under Foxhall.
Yeah I was thinking the same. I don't know of any of Foxhall's guys that sucked in college and then just 'made it' in the minors. Cerantola and Fristoe are the only possibles. I don't count MacCleod against him, because he made a jump in 2020, and was still our Friday guy throughout a NATIONAL TITLE season.
Foxhall was fine until last year, and was likely fine until Sims, Simmons and Auger got hurt. Now everybody is latching onto Cade Smith and K.C. Hunt like they are indicative of the entire body of work.
I'm not saying I love Foxhall or anything, just want some facts out there.
And by the way, it's a combination of the 2020 and 2021 pitching classes that is getting us, not the 2022 class. The 2022 guys are the current elite freshmen.
The general thought on Foxhall is that we didn't see a ton of development of guys under him. We've had some good pitching, but a lot of these guys were elite when they came in the door. The real tell on him is whether our freshmen are turning into reliable weekend rotation guys by the time they're juniors. That used to be the norm here. It doesn't seem to be happening enough under Foxhall. Smith and Hunt are great examples of this. Both of those guys should be premier weekend guys at this point. Smith may yet bet. But something is amiss in how we're developing our guys.
Agree way too soon to give up on Cade Smith in weekend rotation, he is by far the most experienced returner, and the only one with a decent career ERA at around 4.00. I got the sense he was pressing himself way too much Friday to be the ‘ace’ and strike people out, and that is just not him. He can consistently hold opponents to 3 or less runs though when he pitches to contact. He only gives up 6.8 base hits per 9 innings.
Back when we were seeing that under Butch/Stumpy/Henderson, everyone was b1tching about not ever having freshmen contribute in a big way.
Yes you’re right, I meant the 2021 class. I always cross that up since baseball season starts after the calendar year rolls over.
The comment you were replying to said "we always...." I took that to mean he was complaining about MSU in general, not Foxhall.
But Fristoe had a 1.71 ERA through 5 appearances and 21 inning pitched. Not a huge body of work and Texas Tech and LSU were the only P5 programs, but he still looked good, particularly for a freshman. After that, he only had 3 appearances in 11 tries where he pitched more innings than he walked batters. His ERA alsmo marched steadily upward over that time, only having 2 out of those 11 appearances not raise his ERA further.
It’s worth noting that both Smith and Hunt are Cannizarro / Henderson recruits. Not saying Foxhall is totally blameless for them not developing more, but he didn’t handpick these guys as kids that match up with his coaching style. He generally wants guys that can rack up K’s and overpower hitters. That’s his calling card. Neither of those guys really fit that profile.
Well, if those are the only types of guys we're looking for, no wonder we're struggling. We should be looking for kids who know how to pitch and have higher ceilings for development too. You want diversity and change of pace in a pitching staff....not just hard throwing strikeout guys. I know he was unique, but a guy like Ross Mitchell comes to mind. Never threw harder than 82, but he knew how to pitch. A lot of guys like that don't even get a look and it drives me crazy.
Wasn't Cade's grandad on here last year? I would love to hear some input on what's going on. Are they tweaking his throwing motion to squeeze out a little more velo, bad strength and conditioning techniques, arm fatigue? He has shown he has arm talent but something has changed.
I don’t disagree at all….just seems to be where the game is headed at all levels though. Pitching to contact is a lost art just as much as the 15 foot jumper and the Power-I formation.
It’s also a very high risk / high reward strategy…as we saw with that 2021 class. Can’t have another one like that.
This isn't a bad point, and I've b1tched about it too. I liked Graveman/Stratton types better than the the superstar velo guys who are high profile because they blow up a radar gun.
All that said - we DID win a national title with Will Bednar and Landon Sims.
And the key is not a mix of both. The key is finding a couple guys who can throw hard AND have some dawg in them, along with the Gravemans and Strattons. In the case of 2021, we had MacCleod, Hootie, Johnson and others.
I know, I know. Just that easy, right?
Latest posts
-
Will Rogers just threw a TD, NBC
- Latest: FlotownDawg
-
-
Meanwhile, Arkansas taking it to Tennessee.- Latest: IBleedMaroonDawg
Get unlimited access today.