'Local' business, and doing business with them......

[OG Goat Holder]

We all see this, shop local, etc. I see things about how Walmart, etc. put the mom and pop stuff out of business. A few years ago I remember a lot of people fighting new liquor laws in MS because it would put the mom and pop stores out of business, if big box stores sold liquor.

Is this not really just a load of horse sh*t? There's a reason a big company is a big company, such as Walmart, McDonald's, whatever. It's because they had success and provided a good service. So if a local mom and pop stores wants to compete, stands to reason they should have a 'niche' or some sort of additional value, to cause me to choose them? Is it not a good value for practically everyone to be able to pick up some vodka at the grocery store if they so choose, to not make an extra stop? So if you want to have a local store, shouldn't you maybe pick a convenient location, or build a patio, have tastings, get rare brands, etc.?

I've tried to do business locally but had many many bad experiences doing so. I went into a local lumber store years ago, and of course there seems to be a 'code' to speak a certain language to order your sh*t. Where I could just go to Lowe's and deal with normal people. I don't know. Same with restaurants, it's like you have to know what you're doing when you go, makes it hard to break in, if that makes sense.

Anyways, just a fleeting thought, maybe I'm the weird one. Likely a good chance of that.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Larger businesses have a LOT more bargaining power than mom & pop stores.

They can get discounted items wholesale because they buy in volume and pass the savings on to customers.

TLDR: Volume Volume Volume

 

[turkish]

We all see this, shop local, etc. I see things about how Walmart, etc. put the mom and pop stuff out of business. A few years ago I remember a lot of people fighting new liquor laws in MS because it would put the mom and pop stores out of business, if big box stores sold liquor.

Is this not really just a load of horse sh*t? There's a reason a big company is a big company, such as Walmart, McDonald's, whatever. It's because they had success and provided a good service. So if a local mom and pop stores wants to compete, stands to reason they should have a 'niche' or some sort of additional value, to cause me to choose them? Is it not a good value for practically everyone to be able to pick up some vodka at the grocery store if they so choose, to not make an extra stop? So if you want to have a local store, shouldn't you maybe pick a convenient location, or build a patio, have tastings, get rare brands, etc.?

I've tried to do business locally but had many many bad experiences doing so. I went into a local lumber store years ago, and of course there seems to be a 'code' to speak a certain language to order your sh*t. Where I could just go to Lowe's and deal with normal people. I don't know. Same with restaurants, it's like you have to know what you're doing when you go, makes it hard to break in, if that makes sense.

Anyways, just a fleeting thought, maybe I'm the weird one. Likely a good chance of that.

My experience is a little different. The big box stores seem to be staffed with utter incompetence, and their lumber is 2x the local guys’. I think it’s as easy as ever in many locales for a mom/pop to flourish, finding good help notwithstanding.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

We all see this, shop local, etc. I see things about how Walmart, etc. put the mom and pop stuff out of business. A few years ago I remember a lot of people fighting new liquor laws in MS because it would put the mom and pop stores out of business, if big box stores sold liquor.

Is this not really just a load of horse sh*t? There's a reason a big company is a big company, such as Walmart, McDonald's, whatever. It's because they had success and provided a good service. So if a local mom and pop stores wants to compete, stands to reason they should have a 'niche' or some sort of additional value, to cause me to choose them? Is it not a good value for practically everyone to be able to pick up some vodka at the grocery store if they so choose, to not make an extra stop? So if you want to have a local store, shouldn't you maybe pick a convenient location, or build a patio, have tastings, get rare brands, etc.?

I've tried to do business locally but had many many bad experiences doing so. I went into a local lumber store years ago, and of course there seems to be a 'code' to speak a certain language to order your sh*t. Where I could just go to Lowe's and deal with normal people. I don't know. Same with restaurants, it's like you have to know what you're doing when you go, makes it hard to break in, if that makes sense.

Anyways, just a fleeting thought, maybe I'm the weird one. Likely a good chance of that.

No doubt, in Flowood, it is much easier doing business with Lowes vs. Frierson - Bailey. I still use the local Ace Hardware, but with limited hours and selection, I may still have to go to Lowes.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Larger businesses have a LOT more bargaining power than mom & pop stores.

They can get discounted items wholesale because they buy in volume and pass the savings on to customers.

TLDR: Volume Volume Volume

But haven't they earned that ability? Even the larger businesses started somewhere.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

My experience is a little different. The big box stores seem to be staffed with utter incompetence, and their lumber is 2x the local guys’. I think it’s as easy as ever in many locales for a mom/pop to flourish, finding good help notwithstanding.

Yeah no doubt, having lower prices is definitely an advantage, a 'niche'. And contractors generally know those niches.

 

[The Peeper]

For me it depends on the product.

Personally I think regular stand alone liquor stores are archaic. Why go to one of those to buy just liquor and limited accessories when I can go to a grocery store and buy the alcohol cheaper and choose from an assortment of ice, juices, cups, olives, fruit, cheeses, pretzels, chips, etc etc etc. I'm not opposed at all to that stand alone that can provide value added service of some kind but to basically just sell me liquor and make me go somewhere else to buy everything else just makes no sense to me just because you want to have a monopoly and still provide a sub par experience.

I differ with you on the lumber store though. I recently did an addition to my house and went to Lowes twice trying to sit down w/ someone to set up an account for the contractors to use to buy materials and to negotiate a discount for buying everything there. Both times "the guy you need to talk to" wasn't there, he had "gone to a jobsite". When I tried to talk to someone about some materials I wasn't sure they carried I was sent to a kid about 18 years old that didn't know what I was talking about. I asked for the store manager and he knew less than the 18 yr old kid. All of you have had that experience in Lowes, Home Depot, etc, not being able to find anybody that knows anything about what you need.

I then went to one of the local lumber yards in Starkville, took me maybe 10 minutes to sit down w/ the accountant and set up an account for the contractors to charge to. I then sat down w/ the commercial salesperson that helped me order windows, doors, locks, light fixtures, insulation, etc and I got a 20% discount on all of that off regular price because I ordered it all at once and they knew it was a done deal. They keyed all my locks alike for me and made the key. I did the same w/ paint, electric receptacles, trim, caulk, etc I went in regularly and checked the balance and got copies of tickets, pick up extra items, etc. and it was all seamless. I could call ahead and they had pulled my items ahead of time. They let me use their rewards card for almost every purchase I made and I believe it was another $300 worth of gift cards I got from them from that and I used that to make more purchases. I go there almost exclusively now, it may not be as cheap as Lowes but the experience is not even comparable.

In these examples the local lumber provided value added service to compete w/ the big box that the liquor stores typically don't, that's the difference for me when I decide where to shop.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

But haven't they earned that ability? Even the larger businesses started somewhere.

Yeah, but there are really large businesses that started as large businesses conceptually.

Home Depot is the classic case of the start-up superstore with a great leadership team that attracted early venture capital funding.

 

[RockyDog]

For me it depends on the product.

Personally I think regular stand alone liquor stores are archaic. Why go to one of those to buy just liquor and limited accessories when I can go to a grocery store and buy the alcohol cheaper and choose from an assortment of ice, juices, cups, olives, fruit, cheeses, pretzels, chips, etc etc etc. I'm not opposed at all to that stand alone that can provide value added service of some kind but to basically just sell me liquor and make me go somewhere else to buy everything else just makes no sense to me just because you want to have a monopoly and still provide a sub par experience.

But that can't happen in MS because our state "leadership" will not change the law that has us held hostage by the ABC warehouse.

MS has made big strides in the last 20 years - changing the beer laws, local municipalities voting in liquor and resort areas, etc. - but we still have a ways to go. 20 years ago, us Rankin Countians had to cross the river to get beer on Super Bowl Sunday and you couldn't get anything stiffer than a beer in any restaurant. To see actual liquor stores around the Rez and in the Brandon city limits is mind boggling. But we still need to take that extra step of getting liquor into our grocery stores. I still think we are another generation away from that happening though. We still have too many Bible belters that are willing to fight to keep the devil liquor out of their communities as much as they can.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

For me it depends on the product.

Personally I think regular stand alone liquor stores are archaic. Why go to one of those to buy just liquor and limited accessories when I can go to a grocery store and buy the alcohol cheaper and choose from an assortment of ice, juices, cups, olives, fruit, cheeses, pretzels, chips, etc etc etc. I'm not opposed at all to that stand alone that can provide value added service of some kind but to basically just sell me liquor and make me go somewhere else to buy everything else just makes no sense to me just because you want to have a monopoly and still provide a sub par experience.

I differ with you on the lumber store though. I recently did an addition to my house and went to Lowes twice trying to sit down w/ someone to set up an account for the contractors to use to buy materials and to negotiate a discount for buying everything there. Both times "the guy you need to talk to" wasn't there, he had "gone to a jobsite". When I tried to talk to someone about some materials I wasn't sure they carried I was sent to a kid about 18 years old that didn't know what I was talking about. I asked for the store manager and he knew less than the 18 yr old kid. All of you have had that experience in Lowes, Home Depot, etc, not being able to find anybody that knows anything about what you need.

I then went to one of the local lumber yards in Starkville, took me maybe 10 minutes to sit down w/ the accountant and set up an account for the contractors to charge to. I then sat down w/ the commercial salesperson that helped me order windows, doors, locks, light fixtures, insulation, etc and I got a 20% discount on all of that off regular price because I ordered it all at once and they knew it was a done deal. They keyed all my locks alike for me and made the key. I did the same w/ paint, electric receptacles, trim, caulk, etc I went in regularly and checked the balance and got copies of tickets, pick up extra items, etc. and it was all seamless. I could call ahead and they had pulled my items ahead of time. They let me use their rewards card for almost every purchase I made and I believe it was another $300 worth of gift cards I got from them from that and I used that to make more purchases. I go there almost exclusively now, it may not be as cheap as Lowes but the experience is not even comparable.

In these examples the local lumber provided value added service to compete w/ the big box that the liquor stores typically don't, that's the difference for me when I decide where to shop.

Don't think we necessarily disagree. I was just bringing up examples in my OP. The best example there is, is the liquor store.

When I got to Lowe's, I'm usually buying small quantity, where there is some value for convenience.

 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

We still have too many Bible belters that are willing to fight to keep the devil liquor out of their communities as much as they can.

I have never quite understood why I get associated with liquor and therefore it is evil. I am not a brewer, and for the record I do love scotch. One other thing I have never quite understood is why evangelicals seem to think it is their right to impose their beliefs on anybody and everybody that does not agree with them?

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I have never quite understood why I get associated with liquor and therefore it is evil. I am not a brewer, and for the record I do love scotch. One other thing I have never quite understood is why evangelicals seem to think it is their right to impose their beliefs on anybody and everybody that does not agree with them?

Because it's Christian Culture bruh, not real Christianity (which you truly hate).

If evangelicals really cared about treating your body as a temple, why do they guzzle sweet tea and casseroles on the reg? And allow their kids to go hook up and fondle each other on 'church trips'? (of course as long as it's the right 'family' and/or 'friend group' it's ok)

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I have never quite understood why I get associated with liquor and therefore it is evil. I am not a brewer, and for the record I do love scotch. One other thing I have never quite understood is why bible thumpers seem to think it is their right to impose their beliefs on anybody and everybody that does not agree with them?

And here I thought those bible thumpers of whom you speak were your super secret double agents...

Apropos of scotch, are you familiar with Soggy Sweat's If by Whiskey speech?

Noah S. Sweat - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

For me it depends on the product.

Personally I think regular stand alone liquor stores are archaic. Why go to one of those to buy just liquor and limited accessories when I can go to a grocery store and buy the alcohol cheaper and choose from an assortment of ice, juices, cups, olives, fruit, cheeses, pretzels, chips, etc etc etc. I'm not opposed at all to that stand alone that can provide value added service of some kind but to basically just sell me liquor and make me go somewhere else to buy everything else just makes no sense to me just because you want to have a monopoly and still provide a sub par experience.

I differ with you on the lumber store though. I recently did an addition to my house and went to Lowes twice trying to sit down w/ someone to set up an account for the contractors to use to buy materials and to negotiate a discount for buying everything there. Both times "the guy you need to talk to" wasn't there, he had "gone to a jobsite". When I tried to talk to someone about some materials I wasn't sure they carried I was sent to a kid about 18 years old that didn't know what I was talking about. I asked for the store manager and he knew less than the 18 yr old kid. All of you have had that experience in Lowes, Home Depot, etc, not being able to find anybody that knows anything about what you need.

I then went to one of the local lumber yards in Starkville, took me maybe 10 minutes to sit down w/ the accountant and set up an account for the contractors to charge to. I then sat down w/ the commercial salesperson that helped me order windows, doors, locks, light fixtures, insulation, etc and I got a 20% discount on all of that off regular price because I ordered it all at once and they knew it was a done deal. They keyed all my locks alike for me and made the key. I did the same w/ paint, electric receptacles, trim, caulk, etc I went in regularly and checked the balance and got copies of tickets, pick up extra items, etc. and it was all seamless. I could call ahead and they had pulled my items ahead of time. They let me use their rewards card for almost every purchase I made and I believe it was another $300 worth of gift cards I got from them from that and I used that to make more purchases. I go there almost exclusively now, it may not be as cheap as Lowes but the experience is not even comparable.

In these examples the local lumber provided value added service to compete w/ the big box that the liquor stores typically don't, that's the difference for me when I decide where to shop.

Agreed.

Same way here where we have a really good hardware store that carries a good bit of inventory and when you walk in the door there’s someone there to ask if you need help almost immediately. They even carry some unique things like certain nuts and bolts that we can’t find at Lowe’s or Tractor Supply.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

But that can't happen in MS because our state "leadership" will not change the law that has us held hostage by the ABC warehouse.

Sams and Costco have gotten around this by just putting another door in their stores. You have to check out twice, but it's not really that big of deal.

 

[The Peeper]

One other thing I have never quite understood is why evangelicals and far left liberals seem to think it is their right to impose their beliefs on anybody and everybody that does not agree with them?

There, fixed it for you

 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

There, fixed it for you

Actually no you didn't. But I guess thanks for trying. My question was solely based on evangelicals and coming from a place of curiosity. Please do not use my post to impose your political beliefs.

 

[mstateglfr]

We all see this, shop local, etc. I see things about how Walmart, etc. put the mom and pop stuff out of business. A few years ago I remember a lot of people fighting new liquor laws in MS because it would put the mom and pop stores out of business, if big box stores sold liquor.

Is this not really just a load of horse sh*t? There's a reason a big company is a big company, such as Walmart, McDonald's, whatever. It's because they had success and provided a good service. So if a local mom and pop stores wants to compete, stands to reason they should have a 'niche' or some sort of additional value, to cause me to choose them? Is it not a good value for practically everyone to be able to pick up some vodka at the grocery store if they so choose, to not make an extra stop? So if you want to have a local store, shouldn't you maybe pick a convenient location, or build a patio, have tastings, get rare brands, etc.?

I've tried to do business locally but had many many bad experiences doing so. I went into a local lumber store years ago, and of course there seems to be a 'code' to speak a certain language to order your sh*t. Where I could just go to Lowe's and deal with normal people. I don't know. Same with restaurants, it's like you have to know what you're doing when you go, makes it hard to break in, if that makes sense.

Anyways, just a fleeting thought, maybe I'm the weird one. Likely a good chance of that.

It seems like you are complaining about 2 different things here, and trying to combine them.
- you claim big box stores dont put small independent stores out of business.
- you dislike small businesses because they arent all the same and therefore you feel uncomfortable 'learning' how the business operates.
Those seem different to me.

Typically the 'service' the large retailers provide is a cost savings. That, to me, isnt a service, but I get that it can be used in that way.
I cant speak to your liquor example because I dont have data to show if small stores shut down when large stores started carrying liquor. It looks like you also dont have that data, but that didnt keep you from forming an opinion on all this.
I can tell you that it is well documented that when competition decreases, product choice also decreases. Target and Walmart coming in means toy stores will likely struggle and some may close. Petco and Petsmart coming in means small pet stores will likely struggle and some may close. There is then less variety in the market place due to the homogenous nature of large retail stores.
Sometimes, I dont care about the reduction in product offerings. If I want to buy Monopoly or a dog leash, whatever those large retailers offer is fine with me. If I want to buy a TV or saltwater fish, whatever those large retailers offer may not be good enough. If smaller stores have been pushed out of the marketplace due to a decline in business, then they wont be around to sell me that healthy clownfish or quality LED TV that is as big as what DS has.

At the same time, I have found that a lot of what I now order on Amazon is stuff that used to be in stocked in stores, even large retail stores. We went on a hunt for a toaster oven a few weeks ago. Best Buy had none for less than $300 and the store overall was alarmingly empty of any product. Bed Bath and Beyond didnt have toaster ovens in stock either, and they had only 1 flatware option in stock, though about 15 were on display. Target had a few toaster ovens, but had no Iphone 13 cases. Like not a single case of any color, quality, or price.

As for you disliking small businesses because you are uncomfortable learning how they operate...I got nothing for ya on that. I cant say I have ever felt uncomfortable in a family owned restaurant. I walk in, they seat me, I eat, I pay. Its the same process as basically any other restaurant. For you though, I guess be thankful that Bennigans and TGIFridays somehow still exist.


I really didnt think it was even up for debate whether or not Walmart pushes out smaller retailers. Its been shown over and over for decades now.
That doesnt mean I think Walmart has no place in the retail world.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

We all see this, shop local, etc. I see things about how Walmart, etc. put the mom and pop stuff out of business. A few years ago I remember a lot of people fighting new liquor laws in MS because it would put the mom and pop stores out of business, if big box stores sold liquor.

Is this not really just a load of horse sh*t? There's a reason a big company is a big company, such as Walmart, McDonald's, whatever. It's because they had success and provided a good service. So if a local mom and pop stores wants to compete, stands to reason they should have a 'niche' or some sort of additional value, to cause me to choose them? Is it not a good value for practically everyone to be able to pick up some vodka at the grocery store if they so choose, to not make an extra stop? So if you want to have a local store, shouldn't you maybe pick a convenient location, or build a patio, have tastings, get rare brands, etc.?

I've tried to do business locally but had many many bad experiences doing so. I went into a local lumber store years ago, and of course there seems to be a 'code' to speak a certain language to order your sh*t. Where I could just go to Lowe's and deal with normal people. I don't know. Same with restaurants, it's like you have to know what you're doing when you go, makes it hard to break in, if that makes sense.

Anyways, just a fleeting thought, maybe I'm the weird one. Likely a good chance of that.

All big box stores hire local employees and pay local taxes, so in some respects it supports the local economy.

However, the locally owned businesses tend to be the ones that support the fabric of the community, know who you are when you come in, support local sports clubs, schools, etc. and in general are just better neighbors. I default to locally owned whenever I can and I'm happy to pay a little premium to do so.

 

[NukeDogg]

Sams and Costco have gotten around this by just putting another door in their stores. You have to check out twice, but it's not really that big of deal.

Haven't been to Costco but Sams has some cheap booze, but that's all they have is cheap booze. You can get a giant bottle of Grey Goose or Crown Royal or Barefoot wine, but if you want any variety beyond Captain Morgan you're SOL there. I'm still going to my local mom-and-pop liquor store if I want to browse bourbon or wine.

 

[thekimmer]

I have never quite understood why I get associated with liquor and therefore it is evil. I am not a brewer, and for the record I do love scotch. One other thing I have never quite understood is why evangelicals seem to think it is their right to impose their beliefs on anybody and everybody that does not agree with them?

It's because evangelicals, just like everybody else, do have that right as long it is not a constitutionally protected activity.

 

[mstateglfr]

It's because evangelicals, just like everybody else, do have that right as long it is not a constitutionally protected activity.

To me, the term 'impose' in this instance means to force someone to accept. So you are forcing everybody to accept your beliefs.
Perhaps you mean that term in a different way?

 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

To me, the term 'impose' in this instance means to force someone to accept. So you are forcing everybody to accept your beliefs.
Perhaps you mean that term in a different way?

For the record, and not to start a larger verbal war of words, but that is the way I was intending impose to be used.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I cant speak to your liquor example because I dont have data to show if small stores shut down when large stores started carrying liquor. It looks like you also dont have that data, but that didnt keep you from forming an opinion on all this.
I can tell you that it is well documented that when competition decreases, product choice also decreases. Target and Walmart coming in means toy stores will likely struggle and some may close. Petco and Petsmart coming in means small pet stores will likely struggle and some may close. There is then less variety in the market place due to the homogenous nature of large retail stores.

I really didnt think it was even up for debate whether or not Walmart pushes out smaller retailers. Its been shown over and over for decades now. That doesnt mean I think Walmart has no place in the retail world.

To me, this says that Walmart offers the products better. If Joebobby's Retail was better, or offered choices (or any value) Walmart doesn't have, then they theoretically wouldn't go out of business.

And no, no detail on liquor. My example was when liquor was first legalized in my home county, the owners of the 2-3 stores that were there were HEAVY into trying to keep the liquor laws exactly the way they currently were. Conveniently leaving out the idea that they would not even have a business had, ahem, the liquor laws not been changed in the first place to allow stores. So, since they were first in line and did the lifting, they benefitted. Now Walmart or whoever wants to come in and sell liquor too, they get mad because it would obviously cut their business.

Seems like a lot of self-interest, without the willingness to innovate. I know there is regulation that is necessary, I've heard some things about car dealerships or what not. But I don't see how it's not a win-win for most everybody to have more convenience to buy things (liquor in this case).

 

[Old Fart Dawg]

We all see this, shop local, etc. I see things about how Walmart, etc. put the mom and pop stuff out of business. A few years ago I remember a lot of people fighting new liquor laws in MS because it would put the mom and pop stores out of business, if big box stores sold liquor.

Is this not really just a load of horse sh*t? There's a reason a big company is a big company, such as Walmart, McDonald's, whatever. It's because they had success and provided a good service. So if a local mom and pop stores wants to compete, stands to reason they should have a 'niche' or some sort of additional value, to cause me to choose them? Is it not a good value for practically everyone to be able to pick up some vodka at the grocery store if they so choose, to not make an extra stop? So if you want to have a local store, shouldn't you maybe pick a convenient location, or build a patio, have tastings, get rare brands, etc.?

I've tried to do business locally but had many many bad experiences doing so. I went into a local lumber store years ago, and of course there seems to be a 'code' to speak a certain language to order your sh*t. Where I could just go to Lowe's and deal with normal people. I don't know. Same with restaurants, it's like you have to know what you're doing when you go, makes it hard to break in, if that makes sense.

Anyways, just a fleeting thought, maybe I'm the weird one. Likely a good chance of that.

Maybe that was several fleeting thoughts. Well done. Would read again

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

We all see this, shop local, etc. I see things about how Walmart, etc. put the mom and pop stuff out of business. A few years ago I remember a lot of people fighting new liquor laws in MS because it would put the mom and pop stores out of business, if big box stores sold liquor.

Is this not really just a load of horse sh*t? There's a reason a big company is a big company, such as Walmart, McDonald's, whatever. It's because they had success and provided a good service. So if a local mom and pop stores wants to compete, stands to reason they should have a 'niche' or some sort of additional value, to cause me to choose them? Is it not a good value for practically everyone to be able to pick up some vodka at the grocery store if they so choose, to not make an extra stop? So if you want to have a local store, shouldn't you maybe pick a convenient location, or build a patio, have tastings, get rare brands, etc.?

I've tried to do business locally but had many many bad experiences doing so. I went into a local lumber store years ago, and of course there seems to be a 'code' to speak a certain language to order your sh*t. Where I could just go to Lowe's and deal with normal people. I don't know. Same with restaurants, it's like you have to know what you're doing when you go, makes it hard to break in, if that makes sense.

Anyways, just a fleeting thought, maybe I'm the weird one. Likely a good chance of that.

I agree with a lot of this.

I have been looking to buy a local business for the last 18-24 months. I have looked at a lot of deals and it's eye opening getting into their books. Very few local mom and pops are what I would consider good operators. Many are downright incompetent and it's amazing they are able to make a profit. The one's who are good operators are kicking àss and taking names though... Unfortunately for me they are often approached and bought out by the big guys or pass the business on to their kids. Occasionally these solid operators become the big boys themselves. For instance Home Depot, Chick-Fil-A, and Wal-Mart all were virtually non existent players 40 years ago, but now are the biggest of the big...

In regards to the mom and pop lumberyard/hardware stores... HD and Lowe's have dominated the retail DIY trade to the point that almost all of the independent lumberyards you see have gone 80% or more pro dealer (sell to builders and other professionals.) They can't compete with a HD or Lowes in retail and the smart ones don't even try. Of course the same can be said for HD and Lowe's with the professionals. In addition to knowledgeable sales staff, designers, and someone who can do takeoffs the local lumberyards have their own truck fleet and drivers that know exactly what and where to deliver stuff. HD and Lowe's deliver lumber through contract carriers that are impossibly difficult to deal with. Ever gotten an appliance delivery from Home Depot? You leave the store knowing it will be sometime next week and they text you the night before telling you it will be there between 7 am and 4 pm and you have to be home. That doesn't work for a builder trying to manage material/crew flow on a jobsite. So ultimately, many local lumberyards really don't want your business anymore if you are not a pro. They'd much prefer you go down to HD and pick through their 2x4's for 30 minutes before you find the perfectly straight one. And HD is happy to let you do that because you then go buy a $27 pack of LED bulbs, a gallon of roundup, and an inflatable Easter Bunny for the yard.

 

[mstateglfr]

To me, this says that Walmart offers the products better. If Joebobby's Retail was better, or offered choices (or any value) Walmart doesn't have, then they theoretically wouldn't go out of business.

And no, no detail on liquor. My example was when liquor was first legalized in my home county, the owners of the 2-3 stores that were there were HEAVY into trying to keep the liquor laws exactly the way they currently were. Conveniently leaving out the idea that they would not even have a business had, ahem, the liquor laws not been changed in the first place to allow stores. So, since they were first in line and did the lifting, they benefitted. Now Walmart or whoever wants to come in and sell liquor too, they get mad because it would obviously cut their business.

Seems like a lot of self-interest, without the willingness to innovate. I know there is regulation that is necessary, I've heard some things about car dealerships or what not. But I don't see how it's not a win-win for most everybody to have more convenience to buy things (liquor in this case).

In some instances, Walmart may offer the products better. In many instances though, instead of going to a dedicated toy store, people are just going to buy whatever Walmart happens to sell for toys since the person is already there for paper towels or socks or whatever.
That, to me, isnt 'offering the products better'. Its just the result of the simple reality that even if a person going to 4 stores would result in perfect purchases from each store, they are willing to settle for pretty good purchases if they are able to go to just 1 store. I think a lot of people are willing to buy 'pretty good' or even 'decent', compared to 'perfect', if they can stick to just one store for everything.

 

[thatsbaseball]

One of my pet complaints about the "big box" stores is the inaccuracy of their store webpages . You do your due diligence and check to see if they have an item in stock on line only to find out it's not there when you go to buy it. I won't say it happens a majority of the time but it happens a lot particularly at some stores.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

And no, no detail on liquor. My example was when liquor was first legalized in my home county, the owners of the 2-3 stores that were there were HEAVY into trying to keep the liquor laws exactly the way they currently were. Conveniently leaving out the idea that they would not even have a business had, ahem, the liquor laws not been changed in the first place to allow stores. So, since they were first in line and did the lifting, they benefitted. Now Walmart or whoever wants to come in and sell liquor too, they get mad because it would obviously cut their business.

They are probably right to fight. I look around at businesses for sale across the country at times on bizbuysell.com... It's like a Zillow for business listings. I have noticed that there is an abnormal amount of liquor stores for sale in MS at times. Just decided to look it up. There are currently 128 businesses for sale in Mississippi and 24 of them are liquor stores. 20% of all businesses for sale in Mississippi are liquor stores... That seems ridiculous.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I agree with a lot of this.

I have been looking to buy a local business for the last 18-24 months. I have looked at a lot of deals and it's eye opening getting into their books. Very few local mom and pops are what I would consider good operators. Many are downright incompetent and it's amazing they are able to make a profit. The one's who are good operators are kicking àss and taking names though... Unfortunately for me they are often approached and bought out by the big guys or pass the business on to their kids. Occasionally these solid operators become the big boys themselves. For instance Home Depot, Chick-Fil-A, and Wal-Mart all were virtually non existent players 40 years ago, but now are the biggest of the big...

In regards to the mom and pop lumberyard/hardware stores... HD and Lowe's have dominated the retail DIY trade to the point that almost all of the independent lumberyards you see have gone 80% or more pro dealer (sell to builders and other professionals.) They can't compete with a HD or Lowes in retail and the smart ones don't even try. Of course the same can be said for HD and Lowe's with the professionals. In addition to knowledgeable sales staff, designers, and someone who can do takeoffs the local lumberyards have their own truck fleet and drivers that know exactly what and where to deliver stuff. HD and Lowe's deliver lumber through contract carriers that are impossibly difficult to deal with. Ever gotten an appliance delivery from Home Depot? You leave the store knowing it will be sometime next week and they text you the night before telling you it will be there between 7 am and 4 pm and you have to be home. That doesn't work for a builder trying to manage material/crew flow on a jobsite. So ultimately, many local lumberyards really don't want your business anymore if you are not a pro. They'd much prefer you go down to HD and pick through their 2x4's for 30 minutes before you find the perfectly straight one. And HD is happy to let you do that because you then go buy a $27 pack of LED bulbs, a gallon of roundup, and an inflatable Easter Bunny for the yard.

Take a look at this if you haven't: HBR Guide to Buying a Small Business

 

[thekimmer]

To me, the term 'impose' in this instance means to force someone to accept. So you are forcing everybody to accept your beliefs.
Perhaps you mean that term in a different way?

You can call it what you want but that is how our system of laws works. Some areas don't want legalized cannibis in their communities so they pass laws making it illegal some do and they make it legal. Local ordinance in some counties don't allow you to keep junk cars on your property, or gambling, or prostitution, and the list goes on and on. Laws regarding the sale of alcohol are no different. It's not forcing a religious belief any more than outlawing theft is because theft is forbidden by most religions. I am not advocating either way. Provided it is not violating a constitutional right, the people in a community and their elected leaders decide what they do and do not want in that community. Alcoholic beverages is no exception and the reasons behind why anyone doesn't want it, or wants it for that matter are irrelevant.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Its just the result of the simple reality that even if a person going to 4 stores would result in perfect purchases from each store, they are willing to settle for pretty good purchases if they are able to go to just 1 store. I think a lot of people are willing to buy 'pretty good' or even 'decent', compared to 'perfect', if they can stick to just one store for everything.

That's an advantage for me, of course I only speak to myself.

There's not many things worse than going to multiple stores, getting out of cars, starting/stopping the engine, hot *** parking lots, meandering around Anywhere, USA shopping areas, etc.

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

We all see this, shop local, etc. I see things about how Walmart, etc. put the mom and pop stuff out of business. A few years ago I remember a lot of people fighting new liquor laws in MS because it would put the mom and pop stores out of business, if big box stores sold liquor.

Is this not really just a load of horse sh*t? There's a reason a big company is a big company, such as Walmart, McDonald's, whatever. It's because they had success and provided a good service. So if a local mom and pop stores wants to compete, stands to reason they should have a 'niche' or some sort of additional value, to cause me to choose them? Is it not a good value for practically everyone to be able to pick up some vodka at the grocery store if they so choose, to not make an extra stop? So if you want to have a local store, shouldn't you maybe pick a convenient location, or build a patio, have tastings, get rare brands, etc.?

I've tried to do business locally but had many many bad experiences doing so. I went into a local lumber store years ago, and of course there seems to be a 'code' to speak a certain language to order your sh*t. Where I could just go to Lowe's and deal with normal people. I don't know. Same with restaurants, it's like you have to know what you're doing when you go, makes it hard to break in, if that makes sense.

Anyways, just a fleeting thought, maybe I'm the weird one. Likely a good chance of that.

A little off the subject- anyone remember the commercial for Pete's Transmissions? "He's a local boy so you can trust him".

Uhhh, I wasn't a local boy and I wasn't about to trust him with my transmission.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

As a small business owner, I'm forever grateful that you Walmart customers remain Walmart customers.

 

[She Mate Me]

It seems like you are complaining about 2 different things here, and trying to combine them.
- you claim big box stores dont put small independent stores out of business.
- you dislike small businesses because they arent all the same and therefore you feel uncomfortable 'learning' how the business operates.
Those seem different to me.

Typically the 'service' the large retailers provide is a cost savings. That, to me, isnt a service, but I get that it can be used in that way.
I cant speak to your liquor example because I dont have data to show if small stores shut down when large stores started carrying liquor. It looks like you also dont have that data, but that didnt keep you from forming an opinion on all this.
I can tell you that it is well documented that when competition decreases, product choice also decreases. Target and Walmart coming in means toy stores will likely struggle and some may close. Petco and Petsmart coming in means small pet stores will likely struggle and some may close. There is then less variety in the market place due to the homogenous nature of large retail stores.
Sometimes, I dont care about the reduction in product offerings. If I want to buy Monopoly or a dog leash, whatever those large retailers offer is fine with me. If I want to buy a TV or saltwater fish, whatever those large retailers offer may not be good enough. If smaller stores have been pushed out of the marketplace due to a decline in business, then they wont be around to sell me that healthy clownfish or quality LED TV that is as big as what DS has.

At the same time, I have found that a lot of what I now order on Amazon is stuff that used to be in stocked in stores, even large retail stores. We went on a hunt for a toaster oven a few weeks ago. Best Buy had none for less than $300 and the store overall was alarmingly empty of any product. Bed Bath and Beyond didnt have toaster ovens in stock either, and they had only 1 flatware option in stock, though about 15 were on display. Target had a few toaster ovens, but had no Iphone 13 cases. Like not a single case of any color, quality, or price.

As for you disliking small businesses because you are uncomfortable learning how they operate...I got nothing for ya on that. I cant say I have ever felt uncomfortable in a family owned restaurant. I walk in, they seat me, I eat, I pay. Its the same process as basically any other restaurant. For you though, I guess be thankful that Bennigans and TGIFridays somehow still exist.


I really didnt think it was even up for debate whether or not Walmart pushes out smaller retailers. Its been shown over and over for decades now.
That doesnt mean I think Walmart has no place in the retail world.

Whenever I see 5+ paragraphs I know a golfer is near. But I am very appreciative of the paragraphs, even though I rarely have the energy to plow through them all.

 

[She Mate Me]

Walmart was a small local retail store that came into existence less than a decade before my birth. It is now the largest private employer in the world by number of employees and revenues.

I don't think they got there because of favors or incompetence. America is still great in many ways.

 

[mstateglfr]

Whenever I see 5+ paragraphs I know a golfer is near. But I am very appreciative of the paragraphs, even though I rarely have the energy to plow through them all.

I clicked expand my quote. 17 that was really long!
Reputations are often justified.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

We buy a lot of goods that are sold in most places from Walmart because it's cheaper but meats we buy from local groceries because it's usually better quality. A box of macaroni or bag of rice or chips are same at both stores. Not many places that aren't some kind of chain anymore in merchandise for hardware, groceries, home goods.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

For me it depends on the product.

Personally I think regular stand alone liquor stores are archaic. Why go to one of those to buy just liquor and limited accessories when I can go to a grocery store and buy the alcohol cheaper and choose from an assortment of ice, juices, cups, olives, fruit, cheeses, pretzels, chips, etc etc etc. I'm not opposed at all to that stand alone that can provide value added service of some kind but to basically just sell me liquor and make me go somewhere else to buy everything else just makes no sense to me just because you want to have a monopoly and still provide a sub par experience.

I differ with you on the lumber store though. I recently did an addition to my house and went to Lowes twice trying to sit down w/ someone to set up an account for the contractors to use to buy materials and to negotiate a discount for buying everything there. Both times "the guy you need to talk to" wasn't there, he had "gone to a jobsite". When I tried to talk to someone about some materials I wasn't sure they carried I was sent to a kid about 18 years old that didn't know what I was talking about. I asked for the store manager and he knew less than the 18 yr old kid. All of you have had that experience in Lowes, Home Depot, etc, not being able to find anybody that knows anything about what you need.

I then went to one of the local lumber yards in Starkville, took me maybe 10 minutes to sit down w/ the accountant and set up an account for the contractors to charge to. I then sat down w/ the commercial salesperson that helped me order windows, doors, locks, light fixtures, insulation, etc and I got a 20% discount on all of that off regular price because I ordered it all at once and they knew it was a done deal. They keyed all my locks alike for me and made the key. I did the same w/ paint, electric receptacles, trim, caulk, etc I went in regularly and checked the balance and got copies of tickets, pick up extra items, etc. and it was all seamless. I could call ahead and they had pulled my items ahead of time. They let me use their rewards card for almost every purchase I made and I believe it was another $300 worth of gift cards I got from them from that and I used that to make more purchases. I go there almost exclusively now, it may not be as cheap as Lowes but the experience is not even comparable.

In these examples the local lumber provided value added service to compete w/ the big box that the liquor stores typically don't, that's the difference for me when I decide where to shop.

We have both liquor stores and liquor is sold every where gas stations cvs Walmart sams grocery stores. Not as many liquor stores but we have places like total wine that are huge. Usually the small places feature hard to find stuff, certain wines, local craft brews, and cigars. I go there if I want trace or wl weller or some good cigars.

 

[NukeDogg]

Busted the chlorinator tube on my pool over the winter so gotta get a new one. Looked online and figured out I'd have to buy a whole new kit, can't just buy the one piece I'd need. Amazon has them for $100, but I don't need it for another month. Was riding by the local pool store earlier so decided I'd pop in and see if they had one for similar price, give the local guy a little business. Exact same make/model piece on their shelf for $247. And this is why Bezos will be a trillionnaire soon.