Long but good read on College Footbal
- Thread starter MaverickAG
- Start date
Stumbled upon it as I was looking up more information on all of this conference expansion. I've been reading it a little bit in classes that I don't really pay attention in. On page 3 right now, but I'll have to get back on it when I get back to the apartment to finish it up. So far though... it's really really good.
I read that yesterday morning and was blown away by the research and detail in the story. It all sort of makes sense in the grand scheme of things. long read but well worth the time.
my old con law professor, garrett epps writes some good stuff for them too. they do put out solid stuff.<div>
</div><div>and that CFB article is really good, and very interesting.</div><div>
</div><div>i hope that we don't see the day that guys get paid for selling jerseys or making appearances, cause we'd be at an even greater disadvantage, but i'm be fine with a stipend for practice time, similar to the stipend a grad student gets for teaching classes or doing lab research. it's also probably eliminate 30 or so programs who would drop to FCS due to the extra costs, which is fine by me.</div>
</div><div>and that CFB article is really good, and very interesting.</div><div>
</div><div>i hope that we don't see the day that guys get paid for selling jerseys or making appearances, cause we'd be at an even greater disadvantage, but i'm be fine with a stipend for practice time, similar to the stipend a grad student gets for teaching classes or doing lab research. it's also probably eliminate 30 or so programs who would drop to FCS due to the extra costs, which is fine by me.</div>
i am also on page 2 yet the author clearly seems to invoke sympathy that student athletes are not getting paid. They are getting paid - FREE TUITION. It should remain an amateur sport and players should not be getting paid. The bottom line is, is that we need to decide is the students education comes first or the sport in which they decide to participate in should come first. If it is the latter, then there is no need for the school to fork over tuition for someone whose plans only include leaving to going into the pros. After all, who is paying for all that tuition? We, the taxpayers.
sure maybe some of the money comes from state university funds, but most of it comes from revenue brought in through tv deals and what not.<div>
</div><div>that said, it's more than just about getting kids paid, it's things worker's comp and healthcare benefits when a kid is injured for life while putting his *** on the line for the university.</div><div>
</div><div>like i said, these guys are getting a free ride, that's fine. however, if i am getting a free ride for academics, i don't have ~20 hours of practice and workouts + game activities to deal with on top of studying. i can spend my time studying, and if i want extra money, i can get a part time job for those 20 hours athletes spend working out and practicing. that's why i would be ok with a stipend. flat rate across the board. same stiped as msu and usm and bama. to go along with that, i'd want increased vigilance and harsher penalties for anyone caught accepting payment from a school, booster, or agent. the player wouldn't be able to pull on the "i can't fill up my car" or "i can't take my girl to a movie" woe is me arguments any longer. would a stipend stop cheating? nope. but i'd be ok drastically increasing penalties for those found violating the rules if they are already getting $5K or whatever per semester in stipend on top of whatever comes along with their scholarships.</div><div>
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</div><div>that said, it's more than just about getting kids paid, it's things worker's comp and healthcare benefits when a kid is injured for life while putting his *** on the line for the university.</div><div>
</div><div>like i said, these guys are getting a free ride, that's fine. however, if i am getting a free ride for academics, i don't have ~20 hours of practice and workouts + game activities to deal with on top of studying. i can spend my time studying, and if i want extra money, i can get a part time job for those 20 hours athletes spend working out and practicing. that's why i would be ok with a stipend. flat rate across the board. same stiped as msu and usm and bama. to go along with that, i'd want increased vigilance and harsher penalties for anyone caught accepting payment from a school, booster, or agent. the player wouldn't be able to pull on the "i can't fill up my car" or "i can't take my girl to a movie" woe is me arguments any longer. would a stipend stop cheating? nope. but i'd be ok drastically increasing penalties for those found violating the rules if they are already getting $5K or whatever per semester in stipend on top of whatever comes along with their scholarships.</div><div>
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even thought it's not uniform across schools.
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com?topic=69216
I heard they get about 2K right now which to me is plenty.
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com?topic=69216
I heard they get about 2K right now which to me is plenty.
...the corruption would be unaffected. When is the last time anyone turned down a pay raise. Paying college athletes (more than their scholarship, room, board, etc.) doesn't solve anything.
as a parent wondering where the money is going tocome from, believe me they get PAID. This crap always makes me mad. If they don't want a college education in return for their services then they don't need to be in college in the first place. Let them go straight to the pros.
No other student has a earning restriction. The guys who created facebook are billionaires from something they did while they were at school.
Just get out of the players pockets. Schools like MSU will have the same exact disadvantages they have now compared to LSU and Alabama even if players could make money on their name. Bumphis and Relf will still come to MSU because they would get an opportunity at MSU that they probably would not get at the other schools.
As a player, you would make more money being a star at MSU than being on the bench at Alabama or LSU.
Just get out of the players pockets. Schools like MSU will have the same exact disadvantages they have now compared to LSU and Alabama even if players could make money on their name. Bumphis and Relf will still come to MSU because they would get an opportunity at MSU that they probably would not get at the other schools.
As a player, you would make more money being a star at MSU than being on the bench at Alabama or LSU.
and the fans really don't care whether athletes graduate or not. Most fans don't want to admit it but we simply want players who win football games. We allow lower standards for athletes, we let coaches recruit players of questionable character, universities create BS programs to ensure athletes remain eligible, and athletes by and large are people who are vastly different from the faculty and other students enrolled at universities. UCONN has a horrible graduation rate for basketball players and you'd be hardpressed to find African Americans outside of Hartford (I think I saw one once, really I did). It's a lily-white school in a largely lily-white state. But Calhoun wins championships and we all know with which players. It's a con-game where white students and faculty cheer for their school's team that is essentially unrepresentative of the school. A BYU player got into some trouble before the Ole Miss game because he said BYU would show the SEC that whites could play football. He simply spoke about the racial dynamics at play that everyone knows about but is afraid to mention.
They athletes are recruited to win games and an education and graduation are secondary. Coaches often steer athletes to useless degree programs because the coursework is easy. They don't get raises because they graduate players. They don't make millions because they graduate players. Players are there to win games, make me feel good about my uni, but please don't let DeShawn move into my neighborhood when he uses up his eligibility (a name from Freakanomics). A little honesty is needed. Who brags about having the highest graduation rate in SEC basketball?
The Atlantic article makes quite a bit of sense.
From Bloomberg News (via Steve Sailer):
<span style="font-style: italic;">Donations to the biggest college sports programs climbed as the U.S.
economy faltered, with contributions rising 24 percent from the middle
of 2006 to the middle of 2010.</span>
But contributions for academic reasons have declined during the recession. Just win but don't forget you're just an amateur student-athlete.
They athletes are recruited to win games and an education and graduation are secondary. Coaches often steer athletes to useless degree programs because the coursework is easy. They don't get raises because they graduate players. They don't make millions because they graduate players. Players are there to win games, make me feel good about my uni, but please don't let DeShawn move into my neighborhood when he uses up his eligibility (a name from Freakanomics). A little honesty is needed. Who brags about having the highest graduation rate in SEC basketball?
The Atlantic article makes quite a bit of sense.
From Bloomberg News (via Steve Sailer):
<span style="font-style: italic;">Donations to the biggest college sports programs climbed as the U.S.
economy faltered, with contributions rising 24 percent from the middle
of 2006 to the middle of 2010.</span>
But contributions for academic reasons have declined during the recession. Just win but don't forget you're just an amateur student-athlete.
Give them minimum wage for all of the practice and game time, and subtract out tuition if you insist.
..I agree with much of what you say, but I don't know how many times you can keep pounding home that college athletics is nothing more than an Affirmative Action scam.
I don't agree with that. I would suspect not many do.
I don't agree with that. I would suspect not many do.
marketability on the premise that :
1. They dont see one cent of the money they get until after graduation. If they dont graduate, the money goes to a scholarship fund for prospective high school students in the state of the college they attended.
2. The amount of money they receive is a percentage of the sales of anything with their image or name.
3. Bruce, you want to advocate for staying out of the kids pockets....would you be willing to pay for the advertisement you got ? I mean if the kid wants the money from marketing his name, there is an expense that goes with that. Nobody gets advertising for free.
4. Bumphis and Relf would suddenly be courted on the basis of what amount of money a school would promise and not on whether their future was enhanced academically.
My suggestions are acutally tounge in cheek.
If everyone is so upset about recent high school grads not getting enough money, then a minor league should be formed and they should have the choice to simply opt out of college. But school is school.
1. They dont see one cent of the money they get until after graduation. If they dont graduate, the money goes to a scholarship fund for prospective high school students in the state of the college they attended.
2. The amount of money they receive is a percentage of the sales of anything with their image or name.
3. Bruce, you want to advocate for staying out of the kids pockets....would you be willing to pay for the advertisement you got ? I mean if the kid wants the money from marketing his name, there is an expense that goes with that. Nobody gets advertising for free.
4. Bumphis and Relf would suddenly be courted on the basis of what amount of money a school would promise and not on whether their future was enhanced academically.
My suggestions are acutally tounge in cheek.
If everyone is so upset about recent high school grads not getting enough money, then a minor league should be formed and they should have the choice to simply opt out of college. But school is school.
as in a policy designed to redress past discrimination. But that's an appropriate interpretation of what I wrote.
I think fans just want to win and universities want prestige and money. So they do whatever they can to sign as many skilled athletes regardless of their academic ability. And fans get all aroused on signing day based on the number of stars attached to a recruit (count me among them). Just win, play hurt if you have to (Bolden), and take certain classes to maintain eligibility.
<p class="MsoNormal">But, so many athletes are unprepared for rigorous academic
work and are being used and have little opportunities once they leave (Torris
Bright, a former point guard at LSU, once got my order of Canes chicken
strips--extra Texas toast please). it's ultimately their fault but so many adults along the way don't
really care about their athletes' academic obligations (count me among them, I just want a winner as well). Meanwhile, those "professionals" profit and base their entire careers off the
extraordinary skills of amateurs. It's not like schools are recruiting only Grant Hills (remember him at Duke) who come from good families and are likely to succeed academically.
Increase academic standards, make them essentially similar to the rest of the
students entering college and then you'll increase graduation rates and have
true student athletes. They'll graduate, start businesses,
give back to the community and university, etc. Or pay them because they are really in college to win sporting
events (which is fine by me).</p><p class="MsoNormal">BTW, count me in with the hypocrites because I would have cheered Cam in maroon and white had one of our boosters made it rain all over him.
Financially, he was worth the cash.</p><p class="MsoNormal">
I'd also be cool with affirmative action for somewhat slower, slightly less athletic
students who just mature athletically a little later in life (don't want to mention an actual ethnic group) as long as other schools do the same. Many of those types (such as soccer players) have realistic goals regarding playing professionally and thus take academics much more seriously.
</p><p class="MsoNormal">Just throwing out a few ideas to move the thread along (2 pages?) because I think in the world of college football and basketball, words like amateur and student-athlete sound like a bit of a scam.
</p><p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
I think fans just want to win and universities want prestige and money. So they do whatever they can to sign as many skilled athletes regardless of their academic ability. And fans get all aroused on signing day based on the number of stars attached to a recruit (count me among them). Just win, play hurt if you have to (Bolden), and take certain classes to maintain eligibility.
<p class="MsoNormal">But, so many athletes are unprepared for rigorous academic
work and are being used and have little opportunities once they leave (Torris
Bright, a former point guard at LSU, once got my order of Canes chicken
strips--extra Texas toast please). it's ultimately their fault but so many adults along the way don't
really care about their athletes' academic obligations (count me among them, I just want a winner as well). Meanwhile, those "professionals" profit and base their entire careers off the
extraordinary skills of amateurs. It's not like schools are recruiting only Grant Hills (remember him at Duke) who come from good families and are likely to succeed academically.
Increase academic standards, make them essentially similar to the rest of the
students entering college and then you'll increase graduation rates and have
true student athletes. They'll graduate, start businesses,
give back to the community and university, etc. Or pay them because they are really in college to win sporting
events (which is fine by me).</p><p class="MsoNormal">BTW, count me in with the hypocrites because I would have cheered Cam in maroon and white had one of our boosters made it rain all over him.
Financially, he was worth the cash.</p><p class="MsoNormal">
I'd also be cool with affirmative action for somewhat slower, slightly less athletic
students who just mature athletically a little later in life (don't want to mention an actual ethnic group) as long as other schools do the same. Many of those types (such as soccer players) have realistic goals regarding playing professionally and thus take academics much more seriously.
</p><p class="MsoNormal">Just throwing out a few ideas to move the thread along (2 pages?) because I think in the world of college football and basketball, words like amateur and student-athlete sound like a bit of a scam.
</p><p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
How many of these athletes that are supposedly suffering do you actually see suffering? I remember when I was in school that most of the football players & basketball players were wearing high priced clothes that were the latest "fad". The few times I went into a player's apartment, they had nice furniture, huge TVs, huge stereos & speakers, a playstation or xbox (late 90s when I was in school) along with 50+ games. Most drove relatively new Explorers, Maximas, F150s, etc.
I know that most of the football team lived in either University Commons, the Polos, or the apartments next to Polos which were pretty much the nicest 3 options when I was at State.
I just frankly never saw all of the supposed "suffering" about not being able to go out on a date or buy a pizza. I know it has been a little over a decade since I was in college, but I never really witnessed any athlete struggling to make ends meet.
I know that most of the football team lived in either University Commons, the Polos, or the apartments next to Polos which were pretty much the nicest 3 options when I was at State.
I just frankly never saw all of the supposed "suffering" about not being able to go out on a date or buy a pizza. I know it has been a little over a decade since I was in college, but I never really witnessed any athlete struggling to make ends meet.
For every other student on scholarship or not they can earn as much money on their time as they are able. Doesn't matter what advantages they have by being at a school. A member of the band can have a band and put out a record and make money.
Only Student -Athletes are not allowed to make any money. They are the only students that are committing a violation by having someone buy them dinner. I took my Daughter's roommate and boyfriend out to lunch last time I was in Starkville and it was not a violation. It would have been if any of them were student-athletes.
So all you that turn into politburo members when it comes to this one topic I will never understand. You are thinking of yourselves and not the players you root for. There is absolutely no reason the NCAA should be involved with any money coming to the athlete from anyone other than the school itself.
Just to comment on the one thing about a player paying for the advertising, they already do with the hard work they do to put on a show for the fans that watch the games. They do for the Athletic Director who makes 1,000,000 and the coaching staff's that earn 4,000,000+ a year.
Only Student -Athletes are not allowed to make any money. They are the only students that are committing a violation by having someone buy them dinner. I took my Daughter's roommate and boyfriend out to lunch last time I was in Starkville and it was not a violation. It would have been if any of them were student-athletes.
So all you that turn into politburo members when it comes to this one topic I will never understand. You are thinking of yourselves and not the players you root for. There is absolutely no reason the NCAA should be involved with any money coming to the athlete from anyone other than the school itself.
Just to comment on the one thing about a player paying for the advertising, they already do with the hard work they do to put on a show for the fans that watch the games. They do for the Athletic Director who makes 1,000,000 and the coaching staff's that earn 4,000,000+ a year.