Mike Gundy’s brother resigns from OU - bizarre story
- Thread starter Irondawg
- Start date
This is strange and there is definitely more to it, we don’t know, and may never know. I guess that’s the point of his resignation. If he was forced to resign, the player should be forced out as well. As someone else stated, no double standard.
My family is diverse, and they dgaf. Quote from one of my family members. “If a word hurts your feelings that much, you’re a *****. Why can I say it but you can’t? It’s mostly the white liberals up in arms about it, not the black folks I know”
Jon Jon say “17 y’all about a word”
My family is diverse, and they dgaf. Quote from one of my family members. “If a word hurts your feelings that much, you’re a *****. Why can I say it but you can’t? It’s mostly the white liberals up in arms about it, not the black folks I know”
Jon Jon say “17 y’all about a word”
Its not OK for either to say it or any derivative of it while on the clock. You haven’t spent much time in the public or private sector lately (or ever) if you think that it is.
I think there is a whole universe of jobs and work environments that you aren't familiar with. Probably a lot of businesses in Mississippi that would just have to shut down if they started firing black people for saying any derivative of it.
I don't really get the concern with it. I mean, I definitely think it would be better if nobody used it, but I don't have a problem with it being different standards. I don't have a problem with the fact that lots of guys talk about p#$%% at work with other guys in ways that would get them written up immediately if not fired if they did it with or even in front of women. I'd tell them it's better for them not to do it at all and they will be written up if they are talking about it in front of any management and they are playing with fire, but I'm not going to pretend the context isn't different.
I worked in the "private sector" 50 years. During those years I employed a number of black men, many of whom I still stay in touch with. I heard the vast majority of them use the n-word but I never gave a second's consideration to firing any of them for because they were talking with other black employees and never said it in front of customers. I personally never used the word at work especially in front of them. I even physically threw a guy out of a business because he called one of my guys the word. My point is that the word is terribly distasteful, rude and hurtful particularly if used in the wrong situation and context and should frowned upon and punished in some cases but the split standard we have now is doing more harm than good. I just don't see how a member of one race can be singled out for harsh punishment for saying a damn word that another race can say with complete impunity.
You spent 75% of your paragraph describing you yourself using that same double-standard... 50 years ago.
No, 'honky' is a term that feels way more comical than malicious. But you call a white dude the "p" word and see if he don't lose his **** - no matter who says it.
"privileged"
One of my friends and I were drinking one night a few years ago and talking about race (he's a black guy) and we discovered that "white privilege" was the only thing he could say regarding my race that would offend me. And he even went after penis size... And I tell, you it really irks me when I hear it still. I feel irrational that it does, but it just pisses me off a little.
That said, considering he is ten years younger than me and would make GloryDawg look like a bantamweight, I didn't utter a peep of something that might offend him. He asked me to, but I declined out of an abundance of caution. (Covid vernacular in another use baby. Hell yeah.)
“I feel persecuted because I can’t openly say slurs at Walmart anymore.” is not the flex you think it is.
Of course people still say it in that context in a non-work related conversation. That’s why I specified “on the clock”. If it’s said in an official business interaction or even in a non-business interaction in front of the wrong people (management or customers), it’s frowned upon at best and grounds for immediate termination at worst. I don’t know any common work environment with multiple employees under a single employer where that statement would not be true. Hence….not OK to say. “Not OK” doesn’t necessarily mean “automatically will get fired if this happens”, although it certainly could result in that in the wrong context.
Believe it or not, there are entire swaths of black people that absolutely detest hearing even the “OK version” from other black people.
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Double standards exists in life. They just do. I don’t think anyone is this thread is disagreeing with you that the double standard does exist and that it probably shouldn’t. It’s just really weird that you almost feel that you are wronged by not being able to say the word publicly without repercussions.
I do find it interesting that in your last post you didn’t get the big deal about the n word. Now in this post you’re throwing people out of a business.
What made you think I am talking about non-work related conversation? Again, there is a whole universe of jobs you're not familiar with where it is more or less ok. If you don't get reprimanded and it doesn't hurt your position to say it, then I would say it is de facto "ok" to say it in those places.
Why would you think I'd have trouble believing that? That said, I suspect most of them aren't working in places where it's accepted and if they were, they'd tolerate it unless and until they moved up to a position where they could do something about it.
The statement above is absurd. So if I, a white guy, drop the hard -R version in a lunch convo with 4 other white guys, and none of them turn me in to HR or my boss or whoever (and therefore I am not reprimanded and I don’t suffer any consequences in my position), that makes it “de facto OK” to say it? Of course not.
It’s a term that has a non-zero % chance of offending literally any potential surrounding person. Those chances veer from “above 0%” to “damn near 100%” depending on various contexts. Therefore, its not OK to say in a group work setting….regardless of accepted norms, culture, the race of the person saying it, or the races of the people within earshot. Point blank.
If you’re self-employed or don’t have to worry about the sensibilities of others beyond how it affects your bottom line….knock yourself out. But in a group setting with a single employer….different story. Yes, some people will continue to say it, get away with it, etc. Still doesn’t make it right or acceptable.
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Bottom line is, watch yo mouth. My advice would be, don't go around insulting anyone, no matter if it's socially acceptable or not. And if you do, you better weight what you just ABSOLUTELY have to say vs. 2 key factors:
- The ***-kicking ability of the people around you who may not like it;
- The 'I'm gonna get yo *** fired' potential of the people around you who may not like it.
People are vindictive these days, better to just not going around having to prove yourself to anybody. Walk away. That's good advice for someone who gets pissed and feels the need to drop racial slurs (or any insult), and also for someone who thinks it's a good idea to street-fight at 2 am in a bar district, where one bad move means yo face gets slammed into a concrete street.
How about we just don't go around looking for trouble? And think before you do anything that's not an emergency life or death situation?
- The ***-kicking ability of the people around you who may not like it;
- The 'I'm gonna get yo *** fired' potential of the people around you who may not like it.
People are vindictive these days, better to just not going around having to prove yourself to anybody. Walk away. That's good advice for someone who gets pissed and feels the need to drop racial slurs (or any insult), and also for someone who thinks it's a good idea to street-fight at 2 am in a bar district, where one bad move means yo face gets slammed into a concrete street.
How about we just don't go around looking for trouble? And think before you do anything that's not an emergency life or death situation?
It's not ok because if they say it in front of a manager or a person of a different race, they are likely 17ed. In contrast, if it's 4 black guys on a crew and a person off the crew heard one of them use that word or some version of it, they likely wouldn't even think to notify HR, and if they did, they'd get either a quizzical 'wtf' look or a perfunctory verbal response to the worker using the word, not strict disciplinary action.
That's perfectly good as a normative statement. But your reference to not being in the public or private workforce for the past 40 years sure made it seem like you were making a positive statement and just had a narrow view of the workplace.
There is no contrast. There are a wide range of outcomes in both scenarios. A group of 4 black guys saying it in front of a manager could easily be just as 17-ed (if its the wrong manager or wrong setting), or completely OK in terms of any consequences. In the 4 white guys scenario, if the manager is on the same wavelength….maybe even a former member of the crew that got promoted….there still may be no negative consequences even if the manager knows the guys could get in trouble had it been someone else.
But on the whole, if you ask anyone in any organizational leadership position (regardless of whether its a giant corporation or a small business owner or manager) if its universally OK for their black employees to say the n-word in and around the workplace, the consensus reply is going to be “absolutely not”.
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If you don’t think the N word is used in almost every locker room in the country, you are dumber than I thought.
But you keep surprising us all.
But you keep surprising us all.
Same reason uncle Ben’s Is Ben’s original. Aunt syrup, Cleveland Indians, redskins, etc.
Minorities don’t really give a ****. White Libs do though.
It’s cultural appropriation if you ask me.
Minorities don’t really give a ****. White Libs do though.
It’s cultural appropriation if you ask me.
Agreed on the rice and syrup. I even think the family of the lady who the syrup character was based on asked for it to stay named the same.
I don’t remember native Americans complaining about Cleveland being called Indians. They complained about the old mascot on the hats, which Cleveland abandoned a while back. But I remember quite a few Native American groups expressing that redskins was a problem.
Just so we’re all on the same page... at what point was it appropriate for white coaches to say the N word in a room full of black athletes?
Also, how the hell is this thread not locked yet?
I thought PBdog’s guess the slur hangman game would have done it, but I guess not.
Never has been appropriate and never will be. Period. My comment is toward the increasing swiftness in which these unacceptable behaviors are confronted and addressed.
Ha! So yall were recreating that Chevy Chase/Richard Pryor Word Association sketch!
Pretty interesting given you’re one of the more rational people on this board. I get it though. You worked hard for what you have and you don’t want it implied you were given something that you earned. I get that.
I kind of own mine. I grew in Corinth. We were pretty poor until my teens. I’ve done alright if I say so myself, but I do recognize that growing up in Corinth poor AND black would have been much harder.
I retract my previous comment. Once is a slip up, not paying attention. Multiple times is just stupid. I assumed he hit the word and it spilled out accidentally and he stopped. He's likely 17ed.
Yep, better hope Stoops has a spot for him in the XFL.
Also, Gundy’s daughter had a response, but deleted the tweet. This might get worse before it gets better.
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I’m not disputing that. A lot of other non-work appropriate comments (such as sexually explicit convo’s, degrading particular gender’s / sexualities / political parties / etc.) also gets said “on the clock” all over the place. That doesn’t make it OK in the eyes of company leadership or acceptable in the setting, regardless of the consequences that take place (or lack thereof).
Venables did bury him. Maybe justified, maybe not. If he’s anything like his brother then he certainly had some strong advocates and strong enemies among the staff.
However, Venables could have potentially dig his own grave with the language he used. For starters he clearly states that the word is “objectionable to everyone” and as coaches they have set standards and be examples.
That’s his way of saying why the player wasn’t kicked off the team.
However if this is like any football locker room I’ve been in, that word is going to fly off 100s of times a day either out of peoples mouths or the music being played.
That’s sets any player being able to claim that any of the coaches are creating a hostile environment by knowing allowing the word to be used without any repercussions. Wouldn’t the school then have to fire that coach, even if it was Venables? And even if it didn’t come off his lips.
Maybe he’s put in a strict no use policy on the word, but otherwise seems it just takes one pissed off player to take him down if it’s a typical locker room.
However, Venables could have potentially dig his own grave with the language he used. For starters he clearly states that the word is “objectionable to everyone” and as coaches they have set standards and be examples.
That’s his way of saying why the player wasn’t kicked off the team.
However if this is like any football locker room I’ve been in, that word is going to fly off 100s of times a day either out of peoples mouths or the music being played.
That’s sets any player being able to claim that any of the coaches are creating a hostile environment by knowing allowing the word to be used without any repercussions. Wouldn’t the school then have to fire that coach, even if it was Venables? And even if it didn’t come off his lips.
Maybe he’s put in a strict no use policy on the word, but otherwise seems it just takes one pissed off player to take him down if it’s a typical locker room.
You make some very good points.
We all know that words can hurt people. However, language is a funny thing, and we always have to consider the context in which the words were used.
We can't have a "blanket" rule that says a white person must be strung up every time he/she uses the n-word. That seems extreme and unreasonable to me. And I agree with your point that applying a "blanket" rule to white people and not all people is wrong (racist?).
Finally, we are all human beings, and we occasionally make mistakes.
In Venables statement, this was done multiple times by Gundy. This was not a one off happening or just a slip of the tongue in a meeting that happened once. There is stuff we don't know about and probably won't ever know about.
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