My Solution to Fix Mississippi High School Sports

[615dawg]

Everyone knows what a mess we have.

The MHSAA is controlled by a good ol boy network. Their media rights are stuck in 1998 because they have no one that knows what they are doing. The 7A classification is a money grab. And somehow the MAIS is worst. Half the schools in the MAIS cannot get SACS accreditation so the MAIS has to serve as the academic accrediting body as well. At the 6A level in the MAIS, you basically have four schools competing for titles with two more just there for the ride. There is rampant cheating happening. Schools are becoming sports factories.

Mississippi is one of just three states that totally separates their publics and privates. This goes back to the segregation academy days and is one of the main reasons that Louisiana and Arkansas have teams competing the MAIS. It's time to fix it with all schools coming under the MHSAA umbrella like Alabama did 30 years ago (although there are a few that have stayed in a much smaller AISA).

Here's how you do it.

5 Classes. 1A through 5A.

There are 241 MHSAA schools and 49 Mississippi MAIS schools. 290 total.

110 of these schools have under 200 students. These 110 would make up 1A. 1A schools would have the choice to play 8 man or 11 man football but would be classified together for other sports.

The private schools outside of 1A would multiply their enrollment by 1.3 and be classified 2A through 5A with the remaining public schools.

60 schools with enrollments of roughly 200 to 380 would be 2A.

So yes, there are 170 schools in Mississippi with under 380 students. We can talk about consolidation and closure in another thread, but this is how we can fix athletics.

The remaining classes, 3A, 4A and 5A would be made up of 40 schools each.

1A would be different, based on how many played 8 man and 11 man, but the classes would be divided into five regions of eight teams (six regions of 10 teams for 2A).

7 of your 10 regular season games would be region games. Only region games would count in the region standings. At the end of the season:

Region champions and runners-up are guaranteed playoff spots (10-12)
The remaining 4-6 teams are picked through a power point system with no fourth place team being able to be picked over a third place team from their own region.

The 16 schools that make the playoff are divided, by non-indexed enrollment, into Division I and Division II. There are 11 state champions.

1A 8-man
1A-5A Division I and Division II

This borrows from successful plans in Tennessee and Texas. The private schools would almost all be in Division II every year, but would have to earn their title.

Assuming this, your eight playoff teams this year in 5A would have been:

Division I: Tupelo, Ocean Springs, Oak Grove, Gulfport, Madison Central, Brandon, Germantown, Starkville
Division II: Hartfield, Jackson Prep, Meridian, Oxford, Pearl, Lewisburg, MRA, Warren Central

4A Division I would have been led by Picayune and Division II by West Point.

TLDR: Combine the Mississippi MAIS schools and MHSAA. 5 Classifications, 2 divisions per class. 10 state champions but smaller playoffs. Fixes "four team playoff problem with MAIS" and "3-7 teams making the playoff" problem with MHSAA.

 

[CoastTrash]

Change is hard but not impossible. This makes lots of sense but I cannot see it happening anytime soon.

I hope DS sends you a tv for contributing such content to the page.

 

[Pars]

I would buy a ticket to Jackson Prep and Meridian just to watch those fanbases have to mingle together

 

[L4Dawg]

1.3 is too small a modifier for schools that can take anyone from anywhere, and raid their local public competitors. 2x or play up a class.

 

[615dawg]

1.3 is too small a modifier for schools that can take anyone from anywhere, and raid their local public competitors. 2x or play up a class.

1.3 is the modifier that Alabama uses. 1.5 is probably better in Mississippi.

 

[POTUS]

1.3 is too small a modifier for schools that can take anyone from anywhere, and raid their local public competitors. 2x or play up a class.

You say that like the school doesn't have to cover the tuition of the players they "can just take from anywhere." Many private schools are strapped for cash and can't afford to grab athletes and put them on scholarship willy nilly. You want to punish those private schools by making them play above their weight? 1.3 is the modifier in Alabama, and a lot of private schools lament it's that high. I'd say 1.3 is fair. Anything more and you're removing any motivation for private schools to play in the league.

 

[johnson86-1]

1.3 is too small a modifier for schools that can take anyone from anywhere, and raid their local public competitors. 2x or play up a class.

And the 1.3 would be too large for probably most private schools in Mississippi. Would probably need a relegation type system so the schools that don't recruit don't just continually get hammered by those that do.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Ha, Georgia just voted to SPLIT private and public, from 1A to 3A. And a bunch of people in Alabama are hollering about doing the same thing, because the private schools are beating people's *** at a higher clip than representation.

And here in the Sip, we are just now considering combining them.

 

[615dawg]

Ultimately we need a modern, future focused governing body for both. Like the OP says, the MHSAA is run like Larry Templeton circa 1998 and the MAIS is even worse.

Georgia, Alabama, and Tennessee have modern thinking governing bodies.

Hell, the MAIS plays softball in the fall. If you are a female athlete in the MAIS:

Softball, Volleyball, Cheer and Dance are all at the same time, with soccer and basketball coming in at the end of those seasons. Nothing in the spring except track for girls.

 

[mstateglfr]

Your thread title is -

My Solution to Fix Mississippi High School Sports​

And then you talk about 1 sport that is offered to only half of students.
I mention this because for as impressive as your initial post is(its well thought out, genuinely), it completely ignores sports at the high school level.
You are doing the very thing everyone on message boards complain about when it comes to the realignment of college athletics- football drives everything.
Sorry, but at the HS level that argument/justification is weak at best and frankly shouldnt be made at all. The money is not there to justify dragging everything else alongside football.

How would your hypothetical impact girls basketball? boys baseball? boys soccer? girls volleyball?
Along this point, how do classifications currently work in Mississippi? Are all sports in the same class or do schools participate in different classes depending on sport? As an example, classification for girl's sports in my state are shown below.

VOLLEYBALL - five classes with the largest 40 schools competing in 5A, the next 48 competing in 4A, the next 64 competing in 3A, the next 80 in 2A and the remaining schools in 1A.
GIRLS SWIMMING AND DIVING - one class.
CROSS COUNTRY- four classes with the largest 48 schools participate in class 4A, the next 64 participate in 3A, the next 72 participate in 2A and the remaining schools participate in class 1A.
GIRLS BASKETBALL – five classes with the largest 40 school districts are 5A, the next 48 are 4A, followed by next 64 as 3A, the next 80 are 2A and remaining schools are 1A.
BOWLING- three classes with the largest 32 schools compete at 3A, the next 32 are 2A and the remaining schools are 1A.
GIRLS SOCCER - three classes with the largest 40 schools competing in 3A, the next 48 schools participating in 2A and the remaining schools participating in 1A.
GOLF- four classes with the largest 50 schools competing in 4A, the next 60 competing in 3A, the next 80 competing in 2A and the remaining schools competing in 1A.
TRACK AND FIELD -four classes with the largest 48 schools compete in 4A, the next 64 schools compete in 3A, the next 96 compete in 2A and the remaining compete in 1A.
GIRLS TENNIS - two classes with the largest 48 schools playing in class 2A and the remaining schools playing in class 1A.
SOFTBALL - five classes with the largest 40 schools competing in class 5A, the next 48 schools competing in class 4A, the next 64 playing class 3A, the next 80 playing in class 2A and the remaining school competing in class 1A.





Fully agree that private schools should be under the same umbrella as public schools.
For your football example, I wouldnt want 2 champions within each classification. 40 teams should have 1 state champ. No reason to have a state champ for only 20 schools(each class split into 2 divisions for playoffs).

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Georgia, Alabama, and Tennessee have modern thinking governing bodies.

Along these lines, Mississippi could just skip all the stuff GA and AL are doing, and learn from them. To me, there's nothing wrong with 1A to 3A in MS, leave those alone. Let MAIS govern those small private schools. The problem lies in the bigger schools, and I think we all agree that the Hartfields, Preps, JAs and MRAs should be playing public with the multiplier.

You have an even bigger issue though. The 7A schools are just growing so much faster, and so much bigger than the others, even some of the 6As. You almost have to separate them. And it's too small as it is, so doing a DI and DII doesn't make much sense. Private schools can't compete at that level either, I think at best, even with a multiplier, Prep and all them are like 3A or 4A.

Maybe you talk to Alabama and combine at 7A? I have no idea. Maybe you consolidate the small ones more? Although that's a separate discussion altogether. Even if you consolidated, you won't make up much ground on these huge suburban 7A schools.

 

[L4Dawg]

The best solution would be for the MHSAA to go back to 5 classes, and leave the MAIS exactly where it is.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

The best solution would be for the MHSAA to go back to 5 classes, and leave the MAIS exactly where it is.

Nope, because the problem is at the higher levels, the 7A schools kill everybody. There's no competition at the top in MAIS either, the annual playoff between Prep, JA, MRA and now Hartfield is a joke.

You'd have Brandon playing Florence, with much less than half the enrollment.

 

[615dawg]

Texas does the D1/D2 split at playoff time. It's very interesting. Some of the schools in the middle can make D1 some years and D2 some years. Tennessee splits D1/D2 at the beginning of the year.

 

[mstateglfr]

Ha, Georgia just voted to SPLIT private and public, from 1A to 3A. And a bunch of people in Alabama are hollering about doing the same thing, because the private schools are beating people's *** at a higher clip than representation.

And here in the Sip, we are just now considering combining them.

For my state...

In this fall's girl's state volleyball tournament, only 2 of the 16 teams that made it to the State tournament in the largest 2 classes were private. In total, 11 of the 40 teams in the 5 classes were private.

In this fall's state football playoffs, only 2 of the 16 teams that made it to the final 8 in the largest 2 classes were private. In total, 6 of the 48 teams in the 6 classes were private. And then 2 of the 8 teams in 8man were private.

In last year's boy's state basketball tournament, only 2 of the 16 teams that made it to the State tournament in the largest 2 classes were private. In total, 8 of the 32 teams in the 4 classes were private.

In last year's girl's state basketball tournament, only 3 of the 16 teams that made it to the State tournament in the largest 2 classes were private. In total, 8 of the 40 teams in the 5 classes were private.



To be very clear-
I am not suggesting the numbers above are indicative of athletics in all other states. I simply saw your comment and thought about some of the large participation sports for both genders in my state.
I often compare since both states have similar land area, very similar overall population numbers, and both states are largely agricultural with similar population dispersements(a few areas that are relatively densely populated with the rest being rural).

Iowa has 402 public high schools and 51 private high schools.
Mississippi has 448 public high schools and 82 private high schools(quick google).
So while a higher % of HS in MS are private, it isnt massively different- 84% vs 88% public.



Private schools make up 12% of high schools here, but account for a larger % of state tournament qualifiers in the 4 sports I mention above, but if you look at where the private schools are making the tournament appearances, it is overwhelmingly in the smaller classifications. Private schools arent dominating the largest 2 classifications in the popular sports for either gender.
Funny- I just looked up boy's soccer and only 2 of the 16 teams that made the state tournament last year in the largest 2 classifications were private. Again, not dominating at the largest classes. But then 8 out of the 32 total teams in all classes were private- so again, the smaller classes have an overrepresentation of private schools.

 

[dog12]

Texas does the D1/D2 split at playoff time. It's very interesting. Some of the schools in the middle can make D1 some years and D2 some years. Tennessee splits D1/D2 at the beginning of the year.

I've never heard of dividing schools that are in the same class into different divisions, and I don't understand what you're saying at all.

Firstly, why divide schools that are in the same class into different divisions? So more state championships can be handed out? Isn't six (or seven) enough?

Secondly, in your original post, you say: "The 16 schools that make the playoff are divided, by non-indexed enrollment, into Division I and Division II. There are 11 state champions." What does "non-indexed enrollment" mean? How exactly is it determined whether a school goes into Division I or Division II? Can a school be "Division I" one year and then "Division II" the next year? What if the school's enrollment number is exactly the same for both years?

 

[8dog]

Ultimately we need a modern, future focused governing body for both. Like the OP says, the MHSAA is run like Larry Templeton circa 1998 and the MAIS is even worse.

Georgia, Alabama, and Tennessee have modern thinking governing bodies.

Hell, the MAIS plays softball in the fall. If you are a female athlete in the MAIS:

Softball, Volleyball, Cheer and Dance are all at the same time, with soccer and basketball coming in at the end of those seasons. Nothing in the spring except track for girls.

Soccer actually runs concurrent with VB and SB in MAIS. The big 4 MAIS wouldn’t be anywhere near the 40 biggest schools with a multiplier

 

[615dawg]

I've never heard of dividing schools that are in the same class into different divisions, and I don't understand what you're saying at all.

Firstly, why divide schools that are in the same class into different divisions? So more state championships can be handed out? Isn't six (or seven) enough?

Secondly, in your original post, you say: "The 16 schools that make the playoff are divided, by non-indexed enrollment, into Division I and Division II. There are 11 state champions." What does "non-indexed enrollment" mean? How exactly is it determined whether a school goes into Division I or Division II? Can a school be "Division I" one year and then "Division II" the next year? What if the school's enrollment number is exactly the same for both years?

Right now, Mississippi hands out 13 state championships in every sport. My proposal is to cut that to 10 (although I agree that it should be less).

My proposal is similar to what Texas does.

Play a regular season based on more local games (no more 4 hour trips for district games). This cuts down on travel and increases the gate for home teams significantly. When Clinton plays Tupelo (nearly 4 hours) in a district game, it's ridiculous. Instead of Clinton playing Tupelo in a district game, they would play a team like Warren Central.

After the regular season, have a smaller playoff (essentially 16 teams), but instead of the 16 teams having a full playoff, divide them into Division I (largest 8) and Division II (smaller 8). For playoff purposes, you would use real enrollment instead of indexed enrollment (The private school 1.3 multiplier).

Here is the Texas schedule for this week. They go to 6A and have about 5 times the number of schools Mississippi has.

 

[L4Dawg]

Nope, because the problem is at the higher levels, the 7A schools kill everybody. There's no competition at the top in MAIS either, the annual playoff between Prep, JA, MRA and now Hartfield is a joke.

You'd have Brandon playing Florence, with much less than half the enrollment.

We don't have enough schools in the MHSAA for 6 classes, let alone 7. Playoff spots are becoming participation trophies on most levels. That's just not right. You don't have to have an equal number of teams in each class. There is ALWAYS going to be that argument that the schools with the biggest enrollments in each class have an advantage, because they do. There is just no getting around that. It's specifically that argument led to the idiotic mess we have now. You now have a class where all but about 3 teams make the playoffs, that's just not right. Several others are pretty much there.

have about 5 times the number of schools Mississippi has.

That is the key statement and why that works for Texas.

 

[615dawg]

You'd have to work on the index. 1.3 is not enough, but if you go to 1.8 you get the six 6A MAIS schools into 5A. Here would be your five regions, by geography.

Region 1 (North)
DeSoto Central
Southaven
Hernando
Horn Lake
Oxford
Lewisburg
Center Hill
Olive Branch

Region 2 (East)
Tupelo
Grenada
Brandon
Hartfield
Northwest Rankin
Pearl
South Panola
Starkville

Region 3 (Central)
Madison Central
Germantown
Jackson Prep
Jackson Academy
MRA
Madison St. Joseph
Murrah
Ridgeland

Region 4 (South)
Warren Central
Clinton
Oak Grove
Petal
Presbyterian Christian
George County
Terry
Meridian

Region 5 (Gulf Coast)
Ocean Springs
Gulfport
Biloxi
St. Martin
Harrison Central
D'Iberville
Hancock
West Harrison

Based on last year's results (using MP Computer Ranking), the automatic qualifiers to the playoffs would be:

North: Oxford (19), Lewisburg (55)
East: Brandon (3), Starkville (5)
Central: Madison Central (8), Jackson Prep (17)
South: Oak Grove (1), Meridian (21)
Gulf Coast: Ocean Springs (15), Gulfport (23)

The six at-large teams would be:
Hartfield (6)
Tupelo (7)
Warren Central (16)
MRA (20)
Germantown (31)
Terry (42)

Division I playoff teams (largest 8 schools) would be: Tupelo (7), Ocean Springs (15), Oak Grove (1), Gulfport (23), Madison Central (8), Brandon (3), Germantown (31), Starkville (5)

Division II playoff teams (smallest 8 schools) would be: Lewisburg (55), Jackson Prep (17), Meridian (21), Hartfield (6), Warren Central (16), MRA (20), Terry (42), Oxford (19)

Division I playoff matchups:
#1 Oak Grove vs. #8 Germantown
#2 Brandon vs. #7 Gulfport
#3 Starkville vs. #6 Ocean Springs
$4 Tupelo vs. #5 Madison Central

Division II Playoff Matchups
#1 Hartfield vs. #8 Lewisburg
#2 Warren Central vs. #7 Terry
#3 Jackson Prep vs. #6 Meridian
#4 Oxford vs. #5 MRA

 

[615dawg]

We don't have enough schools in the MHSAA for 6 classes, let alone 7. Playoff spots are becoming participation trophies on most levels. That's just not right. You don't have to have an equal number of teams in each class. There is ALWAYS going to be that argument that the schools with the biggest enrollments in each class have an advantage, because they do. There is just no getting around that. It's specifically that argument led to the idiotic mess we have now. You now have a class where all but about 3 teams make the playoffs, that's just not right. Several others are pretty much there.

That is the key statement and why that works for Texas.

Texas has 6 classes with 5 times more schools. We have 7 with 5 times less schools. That was my argument for going to 5 classes.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

We don't have enough schools in the MHSAA for 6 classes, let alone 7. Playoff spots are becoming participation trophies on most levels. That's just not right. You don't have to have an equal number of teams in each class. There is ALWAYS going to be that argument that the schools with the biggest enrollments in each class have an advantage, because they do. There is just no getting around that. It's specifically that argument led to the idiotic mess we have now. You now have a class where all but about 3 teams make the playoffs, that's just not right. Several others are pretty much there.

I agree with you in theory, but the reality is, people get hurt when the disparity is that big.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Tennessee athletics (TSSAA) splits division 1 and 2 based on if the school pays tuition. So public and private….which is essentially what is already done in Mississippi with MAIS being its own thing.

Although private schools in Tennessee are a different animal. Many of them are massive.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

I’m really not following how you’re dividing Division 1 and 2.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

I don’t follow HS sports at all, but is it really broken? Seems fine to me. I don’t understand why anyone would want to combine public/ private, but NWR should be able to play Prep if all parties agree. The leaders at MAIS certainly aren’t going to cede power to another organization, that’d be dumb.

 

[GloryDawg]

This is how i stopped sucking at golf.

 

[mstateglfr]

I don’t understand why anyone would want to combine public/ private, but...

I don't understand why anyone would want to separate them.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I don’t follow HS sports at all, but is it really broken? Seems fine to me.

Not really, except for a few outliers. Pretty much all the small schools are fine. The problem is at the top, both in MHSAA and MAIS. There are a smaller amount of schools that are just bigger than everyone else. In MHSAA 7A (biggest division), there's still plenty of teams to have a fairly equal 16 team playoff, but the problem is there are only 24 teams in 7A. Same in 6A and 5A. Then, over in MAIS, there's only like 6 teams in the top division, so I joke that it's like winning a travel ball tournament. Then the next division down is like 16 teams total.

So, you've got like a parabolic curve going on. Not much else you can do but decrease the size of the playoffs for MHSAA, or combine with another state or something.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

I don't understand why anyone would want to separate them.

I could see them being put all under the same association/governing body like TSSAA does but in most cases they would still be separate from each other for sports.

 

[GTDawg]

The big issue in MAIS is reclassification and the number counts. Schools having low numbers to drop a class in football then recruiting and building rosters after the count.

 

[paindonthurt]

TLDR: Combine the Mississippi MAIS schools and MHSAA. 5 Classifications, 2 divisions per class. 10 state champions but smaller playoffs. Fixes "four team playoff problem with MAIS" and "3-7 teams making the playoff" problem with MHSAA.

How about just have 10 classifications instead of confusing everyone with a 5 x 2.

but none of that really changes the issues of a good ole boy network.

and the good ole boy network is a political thing more than anything. And it’s not really who you would think as “good ole boys”.

 

[paindonthurt]

2x or play up a class.

huh?

 

[paindonthurt]

Ha, Georgia just voted to SPLIT private and public, from 1A to 3A. And a bunch of people in Alabama are hollering about doing the same thing, because the private schools are beating people's *** at a higher clip than representation.

And here in the Sip, we are just now considering combining them.

And we shouldn’t combine them unless they choose to.

Abd we should allow school choice but not gonna go down that rabbit hole.

 

[paindonthurt]

Along these lines, Mississippi could just skip all the stuff GA and AL are doing, and learn from them. To me, there's nothing wrong with 1A to 3A in MS, leave those alone. Let MAIS govern those small private schools. The problem lies in the bigger schools, and I think we all agree that the Hartfields, Preps, JAs and MRAs should be playing public with the multiplier.

You have an even bigger issue though. The 7A schools are just growing so much faster, and so much bigger than the others, even some of the 6As. You almost have to separate them. And it's too small as it is, so doing a DI and DII doesn't make much sense. Private schools can't compete at that level either, I think at best, even with a multiplier, Prep and all them are like 3A or 4A.

Maybe you talk to Alabama and combine at 7A? I have no idea. Maybe you consolidate the small ones more? Although that's a separate discussion altogether. Even if you consolidated, you won't make up much ground on these huge suburban 7A schools.

Why does everyone feel the need to dictate what organizations choose to do?

Who the 17 is it hurting that JA PREP MRA HARTFIELD ETC PLAY IN MAIS?

The only people who could possibly be hurt from this are the people who choose to go to those schools. No one else is hurt. Not one soul.

 

[paindonthurt]

For my state...

In this fall's girl's state volleyball tournament, only 2 of the 16 teams that made it to the State tournament in the largest 2 classes were private. In total, 11 of the 40 teams in the 5 classes were private.

What do the demographics look like of the non private schools?

 

[mstateglfr]

I could see them being put all under the same association/governing body like TSSAA does but in most cases they would still be separate from each other for sports.

Sure- where I grew up there are some parochial superconferences that exist...but those teams still play schools in other conferences and still participate in the state's athletic association.

Chicago Catholic Conference is 17 schools in the city and burbs.
East Suburban Catholic Conference is 9 schools in the metro.

They play one another since they are in conferenfes, but would also play against publics during the regular season and post season.
One of the ESCC schools was a couple minutes from my house and we played them in every sport I can remember. They constantly played all the surrounding publics, even though their enrollment was not even half the size. They pulled from 15mi away for sure so maybe more too, so it wasnt inherently lopsided either way.

Anyways, it's probably just that I grew up with public and private playing against one another at all times and as an adult see it and experience it with coaching so it seems normal and I don't see the downside.

 

[paindonthurt]

I don’t follow HS sports at all, but is it really broken? Seems fine to me. I don’t understand why anyone would want to combine public/ private, but NWR should be able to play Prep if all parties agree. The leaders at MAIS certainly aren’t going to cede power to another organization, that’d be dumb.

For some rreason, people think whatever they want is how things should be done

most of them are dumb

 

[paindonthurt]

I don't understand why anyone would want to separate them.

People separate things all the time in life.

 

[mstateglfr]

What do the demographics look like of the non private schools?

What are the demographics of the 29 public schools spread across the state?
Well, I don't know. I could confidently say I know about 8, but no idea on the other 21.

I don't track demographics of all the schools across an entire state that happened to make it to a state tournament.

Don't know their gender split, their avg household income, their % thats ELL, their % receiving free/reduced breakfast and lunch, their racial breakdown, their % that's 504, etc.

Odd question on your part. Who just happens to know those demographic numbers of random schools spread across a state?

 

[paindonthurt]

What are the demographics of the 29 public schools spread across the state?
Well, I don't know. I could confidently say I know about 8, but no idea on the other 21.

I don't track demographics of all the schools across an entire state that happened to make it to a state tournament.

Don't know their gender split, their avg household income, their % thats ELL, their % receiving free/reduced breakfast and lunch, their racial breakdown, their % that's 504, etc.

Odd question on your part. Who just happens to know those demographic numbers of random schools spread across a state?

Your reply did not disappoint