NCAA Transformation Committee Proposal: 25% Tournament Participation

[Dawgg]

NCAA group proposes 90-team hoops tourneys

The NCAA Division I transformation committee is recommending allowing 25% of teams in certain sports to compete in championship events.

www.espn.com

So, the NCAA Transformation Committee has proposed having a 25% participation rate in championship tournaments where over 200 schools sponsor the sport (this provides a nice loophole for the FBS and FCS).

Of the Mississippi State sponsored sports, this would potentially increase:
The men's basketball tournament to 90 teams (25% of 358) up from 68
The women's basketball tournament to 90 teams (25% of 356) up from 68
The baseball tournament to 75 teams (25% of 301) up from 64
The softball tournament to 75 teams (25% of 301) up from 64
The women's soccer tournament to 87 teams (25% of 348) up from 64
The women's volleyball tournament to 86 teams (25% of 344) up from 64
The men's golf tournament to 75 teams (25% or 298) up from 30
The women's golf tournament to 66 teams (25% of 263) up from 24
The women's tennis tournament to 78 teams (25% or 312) up from 64

The men's tennis tournament would probably have no change since it's already at 64 teams and 25% or 242 is 61.

It still has several steps to go before it gets any sort of approval, but this would be a first step to a major expansion (edit) in the number of teams included in the NCAA tournament.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

It still has several steps to go before it gets any sort of approval, but this would be a first step to a major expansion.

Major expansion of what? Teams in tournaments? Or are you talking about Leach's 64 Team Playoff?

 

[Perd Hapley]

Good lord. Sure, lets just take the same problem we have now with a watered down college football postseason, and carry it over to other sports, too.

 

[Dawgg]

Major expansion of what? Teams in tournaments? Or are you talking about Leach's 64 Team Playoff?

Yes, major expansion of the number of teams in NCAA tournaments. Football wouldn't be affected because the FBS and FCS are split and neither of them are above the 200 team threshold.

Sorry, I'll make "number of teams in NCAA tournaments" more clear on that last line.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

NCAA group proposes 90-team hoops tourneys

The NCAA Division I transformation committee is recommending allowing 25% of teams in certain sports to compete in championship events.

www.espn.com

So, the NCAA Transformation Committee has proposed having a 25% participation rate in championship tournaments where over 200 schools sponsor the sport (this provides a nice loophole for the FBS and FCS).

Of the Mississippi State sponsored sports, this would potentially increase:
The men's basketball tournament to 90 teams (25% of 358) up from 68
The women's basketball tournament to 90 teams (25% of 356) up from 68
The baseball tournament to 75 teams (25% of 301) up from 64
The softball tournament to 75 teams (25% of 301) up from 64
The women's soccer tournament to 87 teams (25% of 348) up from 64
The women's volleyball tournament to 86 teams (25% of 344) up from 64
The men's golf tournament to 75 teams (25% or 298) up from 30
The women's golf tournament to 66 teams (25% of 263) up from 24
The women's tennis tournament to 78 teams (25% or 312) up from 64

The men's tennis tournament would probably have no change since it's already at 64 teams and 25% or 242 is 61.

It still has several steps to go before it gets any sort of approval, but this would be a first step to a major expansion (edit) in the number of teams included in the NCAA tournament.

What's the motivation? I mean $$$, obviously, but at some point the "tournament" is going to take longer than the regular season. Seems like a dumb idea to me. I don't see how this increases interest.

ETA: I could see one or two games getting some additional interest, IF those games featured some true David v Goliath theme that this new inclusiveness brought on. Still agin.

 

[maroonmania]

I still can't for the life of me understand why, if we are going let 12 teams into the football playoff, we just don't go ahead and let 16 in? I was fine with stopping at 8 but it takes just as many weeks to play a 12 team playoff as it would a 16 team playoff. I mean we don't give byes in any other college post-season tournament so why are we doing it in football? I would love to see State get a bye into the Super Regionals when we are a top 8 seed if we are going to start giving post-season byes.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

What's the motivation? I mean $$$, obviously, but at some point the "tournament" is going to take longer than the regular season. Seems like a dumb idea to me. I don't see how this increases interest.

This is what I was trying to ask. Clearly more teams in more tournaments, but why? Other than football, I don't see how this helps us or anyone, really.

 

[VegasDawg13]

What's the motivation? I mean $$$, obviously, but at some point the "tournament" is going to take longer than the regular season. Seems like a dumb idea to me. I don't see how this increases interest.

The motivation is that almost all of the NCAA's revenue comes from TV revenue from the men's basketball tournament. This lets them expand that and the money that comes with it, but by including the other sports, they can claim there's some other reason.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Watch the NIT disappear if the Big Dance expansion happens.

 

[Dawgg]

What's the motivation? I mean $$$, obviously, but at some point the "tournament" is going to take longer than the regular season. Seems like a dumb idea to me. I don't see how this increases interest.

According to the article and some others that I've read, the "company line" is "to create a more uniform experience for athletes" because "NCAA championship participation is the pinnacle of a student-athlete’s athletics experience".

The line in the official report reads: "To ensure that NCAA Division I championships provide national-level competition among the best eligible student-athletes and teams, the Transformation Committee recommends that the governing sport and oversight committees for Division I Championship team sports sponsored by more than 200 institutions should fully consider how to accommodate access for 25% of active member institutions in good standing with Division I membership requirements. Their considerations should account for impacts on the timing of the postseason, the total length of the postseason, necessary format changes, broadcast and other partners, budget resources, and host entity event management."

Official report:

https://images.saymedia-content.com/.image/cs_srgb/MTk0OTA3MTk4ODU2MzczNzg0/final-ditc-report-with-addendum%E2%80%94123022.pdf

 

[Dawgg]

Watch the NIT disappear if the Big Dance expansion happens.

Dammit and we came so close to winning it...

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Dammit and we came so close to winning it...

Poor NITChampsburg... **

 

[horshack.sixpack]

According to the article and some others that I've read, the "company line" is "to create a more uniform experience for athletes" because "NCAA championship participation is the pinnacle of a student-athlete’s athletics experience".

The line in the official report reads: "To ensure that NCAA Division I championships provide national-level competition among the best eligible student-athletes and teams, the Transformation Committee recommends that the governing sport and oversight committees for Division I Championship team sports sponsored by more than 200 institutions should fully consider how to accommodate access for 25% of active member institutions in good standing with Division I membership requirements. Their considerations should account for impacts on the timing of the postseason, the total length of the postseason, necessary format changes, broadcast and other partners, budget resources, and host entity event management."

Official report:

https://images.saymedia-content.com/.image/cs_srgb/MTk0OTA3MTk4ODU2MzczNzg0/final-ditc-report-with-addendum%E2%80%94123022.pdf

Feel very everyone gets a trophyish.

 

[Dawgg]

Poor NITChampsburg... **

To be fair, there's still has a chance at an NIT Championship before it shuts down. Half of our remaining games are against ranked opponents. I still think we have a good shot at the NCAA tournament, but I think it's going to be a big hill to climb.

 

[onewoof]

The motivation is that almost all of the NCAA's revenue comes from TV revenue from the men's basketball tournament. This lets them expand that and the money that comes with it, but by including the other sports, they can claim there's some other reason.

This. Take a look again at what cbs/tbs pays the NCAA for March madness. Big big money

 

[Dawgg]

Feel very everyone gets a trophyish.

Yeah, I'm seeing it as that and as a way for the Holy Crosses and William & Mary's of the world to keep their heads above water in an era where student-athlete standard of living is expected to increase. Part of the proposals include raising the minimum level of mental and physical health care provided and increased access to food and housing allowances.

Basically, I think this is the last ditch effort before the big conferences say screw it and form their own league.

 

[johnson86-1]

NCAA group proposes 90-team hoops tourneys

The NCAA Division I transformation committee is recommending allowing 25% of teams in certain sports to compete in championship events.

www.espn.com

So, the NCAA Transformation Committee has proposed having a 25% participation rate in championship tournaments where over 200 schools sponsor the sport (this provides a nice loophole for the FBS and FCS).

Of the Mississippi State sponsored sports, this would potentially increase:
The men's basketball tournament to 90 teams (25% of 358) up from 68
The women's basketball tournament to 90 teams (25% of 356) up from 68
The baseball tournament to 75 teams (25% of 301) up from 64
The softball tournament to 75 teams (25% of 301) up from 64
The women's soccer tournament to 87 teams (25% of 348) up from 64
The women's volleyball tournament to 86 teams (25% of 344) up from 64
The men's golf tournament to 75 teams (25% or 298) up from 30
The women's golf tournament to 66 teams (25% of 263) up from 24
The women's tennis tournament to 78 teams (25% or 312) up from 64

The men's tennis tournament would probably have no change since it's already at 64 teams and 25% or 242 is 61.

It still has several steps to go before it gets any sort of approval, but this would be a first step to a major expansion (edit) in the number of teams included in the NCAA tournament.

I can't tell if this is a money grab or not? Does the NCAA actually make money or lose money on playoffs in all these minor sports?

Even for the ones that make money, how much more money will CBS or whoever pay for say in basketball, another 26 middling teams to play in the tournament? I guess now you eliminate the "play in" games and give a lot of teams byes and have an opening round to get to the round of 64, which is now the 2nd round? I mean, I guess that's more valuable content, but just seems like the incremental value may not be much compared to the cost of travel and more games.

 

[Dawgg]

I can't tell if this is a money grab or not? Does the NCAA actually make money or lose money on playoffs in all these minor sports?

Even for the ones that make money, how much more money will CBS or whoever pay for say in basketball, another 26 middling teams to play in the tournament? I guess now you eliminate the "play in" games and give a lot of teams byes and have an opening round to get to the round of 64, which is now the 2nd round? I mean, I guess that's more valuable content, but just seems like the incremental value may not be much compared to the cost of travel and more games.

One of the things listed in the report was for a recommendation for the NCAA to do a better job of monetizing tournaments other than the men's basketball tournament. Here's another excerpt from the report:

We also believe it’s important that as part of transformation, the NCAA give critical and creative thought to enhancing the financial value of championship tournaments, particularly women’s basketball and other sports. While not all sports share the same levels of relative popularity, I can attest that every national championship chase is thrilling and worth spotlighting. As the NCAA embarks on establishing a slew of new programs to enhance student-athletes’ experiences, finding ways to increase fan following of various NCAA tournaments, while generating new sources of media and sponsorship revenue, will be an immediate and long-term priority.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Yeah, I'm seeing it as that and as a way for the Holy Crosses and William & Mary's of the world to keep their heads above water in an era where student-athlete standard of living is expected to increase. Part of the proposals include raising the minimum level of mental and physical health care provided and increased access to food and housing allowances.

Basically, I think this is the last ditch effort before the big conferences say screw it and form their own league.

Matt Brown of Extra Points had a couple tweets I thought were interesting:

 

[mstateglfr]

I'm just excited to know MSU may finally get back to the Dance about half the time!
If it can't be based on better play, then increase overall invites, I guess.

 

[chuckster.sixpack]

Watch the NIT disappear if the Big Dance expansion happens.

I thought it had disappeared.

 

[chuckster.sixpack]

 

[thatsbaseball]

Watch the NIT disappear if the Big Dance expansion happens.

I wish some sports entrepreneur like Mark Cuban would buy the NIT and put a bunch of money into it . Obviously they'd have to have a network working with them but I believe it could at least stay viable if done right.

 

[IAM4MSU]

I still can't for the life of me understand why, if we are going let 12 teams into the football playoff, we just don't go ahead and let 16 in? I was fine with stopping at 8 but it takes just as many weeks to play a 12 team playoff as it would a 16 team playoff. I mean we don't give byes in any other college post-season tournament so why are we doing it in football? I would love to see State get a bye into the Super Regionals when we are a top 8 seed if we are going to start giving post-season byes.

8 or 16. My thoughts exactly. A 12 team playoff just leaves the door open for another iteration of the playoffs down the road and another opportunity for Bama to complain about something when they don’t get a first round BYE.

In fact, an 8 team playoff seems easiest to implement ASAP based on current CFP bowl setup. An 8 team playoff would produce 7 games (4 quarter finals, 2 semifinals, and one championship game). The current “New Year’s Six Bowls” could rotate and be the quarter finals and semifinal bowl locations each year with a separate championship game. It’s not very different than what we have now.

 

[patdog]

Watch the NIT disappear if the Big Dance expansion happens.

I think there's a good argument the NIT should disappear. Nobody cares about it or watches it. You could easily go to a 96-team NCAA tournament with 2 auto bids for each conference. First weekend would be Wed-Thur 9-24 seeds, Fri-Sat winners vs 1-8 seeds, and Sun-Mon winners of round 2. The auto bid conferences would have a legitimate chance at a tournament win and you get 6 days of TV revenue vs. 4 now.

 

[ThreeDawgNight]

It’s not very different than what we have now.

And there's the problem.

 

[TaleofTwoDogs]

Why not include everybody, make it touchy-feely for the sensitive ones can all have a participation trophy. 25% where did that come from?? If it was up to me 17% would be ideal.

 

[Clay Lyle]

I still can't for the life of me understand why, if we are going let 12 teams into the football playoff, we just don't go ahead and let 16 in? I was fine with stopping at 8 but it takes just as many weeks to play a 12 team playoff as it would a 16 team playoff. I mean we don't give byes in any other college post-season tournament so why are we doing it in football? I would love to see State get a bye into the Super Regionals when we are a top 8 seed if we are going to start giving post-season byes.

I think they went 12 teams (4 BYEs) to mimic FCS who has 24 teams (8 BYEs). If we expand beyond 12, it’s going to 24. Probably dropping to 11 regular season games to meet that though.

 

[patdog]

I still can't for the life of me understand why, if we are going let 12 teams into the football playoff, we just don't go ahead and let 16 in? I was fine with stopping at 8 but it takes just as many weeks to play a 12 team playoff as it would a 16 team playoff. I mean we don't give byes in any other college post-season tournament so why are we doing it in football? I would love to see State get a bye into the Super Regionals when we are a top 8 seed if we are going to start giving post-season byes.

8 would be a much better format, but the SEC and Big 10 are greedy so we have 12. One big problem with going to 16 is how would they fit in 8 playoff games between the NFL games that first weekend. Also, the field is going to be diluted plenty with the expansion to 12. All that said, I wouldn't be surprised to see them expand it to 16 in another 6-10 years.

 

[mstateglfr]

Why not include everybody, make it touchy-feely for the sensitive ones can all have a participation trophy. 25% where did that come from?? If it was up to me 17% would be ideal.

I would think the Pack would be in favor of 19.83% of teams making the tournaments, but I see your 17% too.

 

[kired]

What's the motivation? I mean $$$, obviously, but at some point the "tournament" is going to take longer than the regular season. Seems like a dumb idea to me. I don't see how this increases interest.

ETA: I could see one or two games getting some additional interest, IF those games featured some true David v Goliath theme that this new inclusiveness brought on. Still agin.

Expansion may not increase interest in the tournament itself - but I think it makes late season basketball a lot more meaningful for the 30-40 teams that will be battling to earn a spot. Once a fanbase knows their team doesn't have a shot, most lose interest and it kills attendance.

With something like 32 automatic bids, there are 36 at large teams. Adding another 20 at large teams will keep a lot more fanbases interested in college basketball late in the season.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Expansion may not increase interest in the tournament itself - but I think it makes late season basketball a lot more meaningful for the 30-40 teams that will be battling to earn a spot. Once a fanbase knows their team doesn't have a shot, most lose interest and it kills attendance.

With something like 32 automatic bids, there are 36 at large teams. Adding another 20 at large teams will keep a lot more fanbases interested in college basketball late in the season.

Good point.