Nick Saban or Kirby Smart would not win here at State under the current NIL format.

[drexeldog23]

Only 1 can start. Two are on the bench watching Dart.

thank you... that doesn't really seem that hard to understand

 

[OG Goat Holder]

thank you... that doesn't really seem that hard to understand

Well it’s working? It motivated Dart. I like innovation, honestly.

 

[patdog]

He’s a little above .500 in the conference. Wow, I’m stunned! He’s a shoe-in for Bama no doubt.

Last coach we’ve had who was above .500 was Murray Warmath, 6-5-3 in 1952-1953. So yeah, I’d kill someone (at least someone I didn’t like) to have a coach above .500 in the SEC.

 

[Will Rogers.sixpack]

Funny about the 91 Liberty bowl, we ran an option offense ourselves that year. Our defense should have seen that offense plenty.

We lost the 91 liberty because we were hung over.

Sure we ran the option, but we in no way ran the option like Air Force ran the option. Ours was not a “system” per say. Their option offense was a system, in the same way I’m speaking about. Theirs was truly a committed system that was their sole identity.

 

[Will Rogers.sixpack]

Triple option would get shut down and ran out of town in this conference. If none of you can see that a strong passing game is key then you have no eyes and/or no brains.

Paul Johnson and Georgia Tech didn’t get run out of town. We definitely didn’t run them out of town. Also, wether it be a “System” committed to run or pass would equal the same effectiveness with players recruited for that system. The point is the system committed too, in trying to neutralize the NIL and talent gap, by being effective and precise in doing something different than the rest of the SEC sees every week.

 

[Will Rogers.sixpack]

I think I was pretty clear in saying not a triple option like the service academies or Georgia Tech.

I'm talking about a modified option based offense that incorporates the passing game. The service academies run the flexbone because they have to. They cannot consistently get a QB that can throw better than the average WR/RB and the lineman essentially have a max weight. We don't have those restrictions.

And it is absolutely possible to have a good offense based on a great run game and a serviceable passing game. That's what we had Mullen's last 2 years with Fitz. The triple option is the best offense for neutralizing talent gaps. We've had so many QBs that are great runners and serviceable passers, and only one that I would consider a great passer. A "triple option 2.0" that forces the defense to respect the pass (again, say 30% pass) and run out of the pistol/shotgun is not that crazy of an idea on paper.

Until we start showing that we can recruit/develop great passing QBs, we don't need a pass first offense.

Just this year Army hired Drew Thacher, a Hal Mumme/Mike Leavh disciple, to help run their triple option based offense out of the shotgun.

 

[StateCollege]

Gotta be honest, your description sounds a lot like Barbay’s offense.

Not sure what team you are watching, but we don't run a triple option offense?

 

[sandwolf.sixpack]

Bigger disadvantage for the 5 star kids, sure. But now we are getting NIL request from low 3 star kids.
And trust me, every single recruit in the country is asking for money, and they want a lot.

We are at a far bigger disadvantage for the 5 stars today than we were when everything was under the table. I can't ever see us signing another no doubter like Jeff Simmons or Chris Jones under the current rules. The big schools will come in and make guys like that an offer that they just can't turn down. And it's all legal now.

Used to, if you got too brazen and bought a kid you had no business getting, there was a chance of coaches getting fired and your program getting sanctioned....now it's no holds barred, and we have neither the bank account nor the stomach to compete for those guys anymore.

And Low 3 star kids aren't getting jack ****.

 

[BigDawg0074]

Not sure what team you are watching, but we don't run a triple option offense?

There was definitely a triple option run against LSU, with Rogers lol! Of coarse he handed it off but ran to the left with a pitch guy on his flank. I thought it was a total waste to run that play with Rogers.

 

[BigDawg0074]

Paul Johnson and Georgia Tech didn’t get run out of town. We definitely didn’t run them out of town. Also, wether it be a “System” committed to run or pass would equal the same effectiveness with players recruited for that system. The point is the system committed too, in trying to neutralize the NIL and talent gap, by being effective and precise in doing something different than the rest of the SEC sees every week.

Those most important bit of that is consistency and of coarse OL play. You don’t need a special system to do those things. It doesn’t matter what so called system we run, if the OL gets their azz whipped then any play will get broken. Relying on a wily QB to bail you out of every broken play is a fools errand. If you can get good OL play and serviceable skill players, which we definitely can, then we can compete regardless of scheme. We have done it with several different coaching staffs and schemes.

 

[knock him out john]

Funny about the 91 Liberty bowl, we ran an option offense ourselves that year. Our defense should have seen that offense plenty.

We lost the 91 liberty because we were hung over.

they wore us out all night long...bunch of fly boys.

 

[knock him out john]

I really like the idea of Troy Calhoun or another triple option HC with the assumption that they would modernize it. Essentially, a Relf Coast offense but with a focus on triple option rather than read option. Maybe 65-70% run with 15 or so pass attempts per game. Most likely would be run out of a shotgun/pistol base set. Will Hall ran the flexbone occasionally at Tulane with some success.

It might be hard to find OL that can do both, but triple option has always been the great equalizer of talent. And hopefully because of the more balanced option approach, it wouldn’t be as much of a transition after the HC leaves.

he was mentioned by Rosebowl during the Leach search.

 

[knock him out john]

Disagree. If Nick Saban came here tomorrow, we would compete for a national championship in 3 years. We would win it. And then.... Nick Saban would go down as the undisputed best football coach of all time, regardless of any arguments made against him for some other coach.

Nick would elevate the entire program and the Univeristy would benefit.

 

[Will Rogers.sixpack]

Those most important bit of that is consistency and of coarse OL play. You don’t need a special system to do those things. It doesn’t matter what so called system we run, if the OL gets their azz whipped then any play will get broken. Relying on a wily QB to bail you out of every broken play is a fools errand. If you can get good OL play and serviceable skill players, which we definitely can, then we can compete regardless of scheme. We have done it with several different coaching staffs and schemes.

You’re missing the whole point of the “system”. For instance, have you ever looked at what the service academies o-linemen look like? The blocking schemes and techniques for systems like that can counter’s the talent gap to which they’re blocking against. Again, you are missing this whole point of minimizing the huge gap in money and talent. You will never do it, at least with any consistency playing their game, with way lesser talent.

 

[Will Rogers.sixpack]

Nick would elevate the entire program and the Univeristy would benefit.

Not without money, running the offensive and defensive schemes he runs now. Not here. This is a new landscape in college football.

 

[BigDawg0074]

You’re missing the whole point of the “system”. For instance, have you ever looked at what the service academies o-linemen look like? The blocking schemes and techniques for systems like that can counter’s the talent gap to which they’re blocking against. Again, you are missing this whole point of minimizing the huge gap in money and talent. You will never do it, at least with any consistency playing their game, with way lesser talent.

Do what consistently? Win conference games? We have done so regardless of magical systems. Beat Bama? We haven’t, regardless of magical systems. Who exactly do you think we are regularly competing against? If you think it’s Bama you are a fool. We are competing to consistently beat the mid tier conference opponents and up our status and branding in doing so. We don’t need magical systems to beat Arkansas, Kentucky, and Ole Miss. Magical systems don’t mean shite unless you have a coaching staff who knows what they are doing. We also need the players who can execute because Mississippi State would be even worse in this league if we had Arizona’s roster with 22 senior starters. Their is no magical system that eliminates talent gaps, it doesn’t exist anywhere with the same consistent opponents every year. You can’t name a team with a shite roster who beats four to six SEC opponents per year. Period.

 

[Will Rogers.sixpack]

Do what consistently? Win conference games? We have done so regardless of magical systems. Beat Bama? We haven’t, regardless of magical systems. Who exactly do you think we are regularly competing against? If you think it’s Bama you are a fool. We are competing to consistently beat the mid tier conference opponents and up our status and branding in doing so. We don’t need magical systems to beat Arkansas, Kentucky, and Ole Miss. Magical systems don’t mean shite unless you have a coaching staff who knows what they are doing. We also need the players who can execute because Mississippi State would be even worse in this league if we had Arizona’s roster with 22 senior starters. There is no magical system that eliminates talent gaps, it doesn’t exist anywhere with the same consistent opponents every year. You can’t name a team with a shite roster who beats four to six SEC opponents per year. Period.

When Air Force put up 31 and beat the breaks off us in the bowl game, while only attempting 2 passes, which team had more talent? When Georgia Tech put up 49 on us and dominated, while only having 10 pass attempts, which team had more talent? When we went into Florida and beat them in 2010, while only having 9 pass attempts and maybe 2 in the second half, running the single wing, which team had more talent?

 

[BigDawg0074]

When Air Force put up 31 and beat the breaks off us in the bowl game, while only attempting 2 passes, which team had more talent? When Georgia Tech put up 49 on us and dominated, while only having 10 pass attempts, which team had more talent? When we went into Florida and beat them in 2010, while only having 9 pass attempts and maybe 2 in the second half, running the single wing, which team had more talent?

Whoa you can reference three games in how many years? Bro this is childish. It sounds like a YouTube ad “Beat Alabama with this one weird trick.”

 

[AstroDog]

You do realize Bama and UGA have been cheating their asses off for years? We were probably at a bigger disadvantage when everything was under the table.

Thats why Saban doesnt like NIL. It lets us at the table too........in the open.

 

[StateCollege]

Whoa you can reference three games in how many years? Bro this is childish. It sounds like a YouTube ad “Beat Alabama with this one weird trick.”

Here is what you are missing. We win games, but we don't win because of our offense. Since Dak, we average the 64th total offense and 66th scoring offense. Very few times in school history would I say we've had a great offense. Different systems, different coaches, different QBs - but similar results. Our offenses are either average, below average or bad. Over the last 15 years, we won more games in spite of our offense rather than because of it.

Believe it or not, there are offenses that can do more to neutralize talent gaps. In the same vein, there are offenses that can have the opposite effect. That's why we hired Leach. Because he consistently had offenses that punched above their weight for the talent that it had. Obviously it had mixed results, but at least it was proactive thinking.

 

[BigDawg0074]

Here is what you are missing. We win games, but we don't win because of our offense. Since Dak, we average the 64th total offense and 66th scoring offense. Very few times in school history would I say we've had a great offense. Different systems, different coaches, different QBs - but similar results. Our offenses are either average, below average or bad. Over the last 15 years, we won more games in spite of our offense rather than because of it.

Believe it or not, there are offenses that can do more to neutralize talent gaps. In the same vein, there are offenses that can have the opposite effect. That's why we hired Leach. Because he consistently had offenses that punched above their weight for the talent that it had. Obviously it had mixed results, but at least it was proactive thinking.

Ah so now Cohen actually had it all figured out. Our offense was better under Leach because he bothered to recruit players skilled at what they do. Mullen didn’t bother recruiting a receiver worth their salt and we had one good QB. The rest of the QBs spent their time banging their head into linebackers. That was neat but the results were the same. Blew TF out by Bama and averaging a losing conference record. Leach didn’t have some super secret formula. It was called good consistent coaching and an eye for players to execute the things he wanted to do.

 

[Ranchdawg]

Thats why Saban doesnt like NIL. It lets us at the table too........in the open.

I think you meant Ole Miss at the table. We're still in the other room sitting at the card table with the other "kids".

 

[Will Rogers.sixpack]

Here is what you are missing. We win games, but we don't win because of our offense. Since Dak, we average the 64th total offense and 66th scoring offense. Very few times in school history would I say we've had a great offense. Different systems, different coaches, different QBs - but similar results. Our offenses are either average, below average or bad. Over the last 15 years, we won more games in spite of our offense rather than because of it.

Believe it or not, there are offenses that can do more to neutralize talent gaps. In the same vein, there are offenses that can have the opposite effect. That's why we hired Leach. Because he consistently had offenses that punched above their weight for the talent that it had. Obviously it had mixed results, but at least it was proactive thinking.

And to your point, back in Jackie’s best days, we had at the time an innovative outside the box defensive system under Joe Lee Dunn. It caught people off guard and it wasn’t what they were used to seeing every week at that time. So anytime we’ve had consistent success, it’s been when we were doing something innovative and unordinary schematicly on one side of the ball or the other. And if it’s just one side of the ball, then you tailor your scheme on the other side to complement it moreso.

 

[Will Rogers.sixpack]

Whoa you can reference three games in how many years? Bro this is childish. It sounds like a YouTube ad “Beat Alabama with this one weird trick.”

I never mentioned Alabama specifically, and you never answered the questions.

 

[BigDawg0074]

I never mentioned Alabama specifically, and you never answered the questions.

And you didn’t provide an example of a poorly talented team who beats four or five SEC teams every season. Face it, your argument stinks. It hinges entirely on a handful of wins in a thirty year period. You’re probably just repeating what you heard some other person say and you can’t think of anything better. There is no magic system for getting 8+ wins on a regular basis. It’s talent, experience, and good coaching for everyone.

 

[Will Rogers.sixpack]

And you didn’t provide an example of a poorly talented team who beats four or five SEC teams every season. Face it, your argument stinks. It hinges entirely on a handful of wins in a thirty year period. You’re probably just repeating what you heard some other person say and you can’t think of anything better. There is no magic system for getting 8+ wins on a regular basis. It’s talent, experience, and good coaching for everyone.

I actually did give a few examples. On the defensive side of the ball we were extremely innovative, as Joe Lee Dunn ran a very different system than what the rest of the sec saw every week. Also I talked about the job Dan Mullen did with his system at time he had Relf at qb. Both examples were about our history. Not to mention last season Mike Leach’s “system” got us 9 wins, and in all likelihood we were primed for another similar season had he not died. Also who knows, but in all likely hood we were about to enter a good stretch under that “system.”
You on the other hand have not provided anything logical or specific with regard to how we, in this new landscape of NIL, transfer portal ect, are going to neutralize the talent gap between us and the rest of the SEC.

 

[Ranchdawg]

Disagree. If Nick Saban came here tomorrow, we would compete for a national championship in 3 years. We would win it. And then.... Nick Saban would go down as the undisputed best football coach of all time, regardless of any arguments made against him for some other coach.

This is one of the funniest Disney like posts I've read on here. Sure you didn't forget the sarcastirics? No way in the world could Saban win a NC without stacking the deck like he has at every stop. He would not have a stable of 5 stars and would lose to Alabama just like we do now.

 

[BigDawg0074]

I actually did give a few examples. On the defensive side of the ball we were extremely innovative, as Joe Lee Dunn ran a very different system than what the rest of the sec saw every week. Also I talked about the job Dan Mullen did with his system at time he had Relf at qb. Both examples were about our history. Not to mention last season Mike Leach’s “system” got us 9 wins, and in all likelihood we were primed for another similar season had he not died. Also who knows, but in all likely hood we were about to enter a good stretch under that “system.”
You on the other hand have not provided anything logical or specific with regard to how we, in this new landscape of NIL, transfer portal ect, are going to neutralize the talent gap between us and the rest of the SEC.

Are you under the impression that our coaches are unaware of or ignoring some fancy blocking scheme that would turn the whole season around? What if these magical systems were run by top five recruiters, the sky would be the limit! Bring on the Chiefs!

I don’t think the talent gap is all that wide between us and most SEC teams if we aren’t including Bama as you say. We have talented skill players. Our defense lacks talent but JLD’s 3-3-5 defense is supposed to alleviate that problem right? I think if we can at least recruit at our current level or perhaps improve a bit we can continue to compete. Of course that involves people like you and me contributing since crowdfunding is the new NCAA reality.

Mullen was a good offensive and QB coach. That’s why they enjoyed success but his best team here at MSU was led by a future NFL QB. Barbay’s offense already includes the kind of thing that Mullen liked to do so I’m not sure what you are searching for in a system that isn’t already commonplace throughout NCAA football. Good luck getting the AD and fan base to get behind another true Hal Mumme style air raid, even if you could find a coach who still runs it.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

I see all these names being thrown out here after we move on from Arnett, but it’s just more of the same illogical insane mindset. You cannot expect to be competitive with the rest of the SEC, running similar styles of offense and defense, if you’re not spending the same or close to the same kind of money on players in recruiting, current players, and transfer portal players. If you’re not going to have or spend the money then what are we doing with throwing out these coaches who basically do and run what everyone sees every week, except with better players! Think outside the box, similar to what the academies do to try and neutralize the talent gap. It doesn’t have to be the true triple option, but some kind of system that is different than the norm is what we’re looking for here. Anyone remember getting whooped in bowl games by Air Force? How about Georgia Tech? Who had more talent in those games? Also note, that Leavh was a true out of norm system guy, just in the air vs the ground. What I’m saying is that until y’all accept who we are in this new landscape of college football, and start throwing out actual realistic names that fit this unorthodox style play, a coach that brings and runs a system different than what the rest of the SEC sees every week, then we are just beginning to enter an endless hamster wheel of losing headed toward the bottom of the barrel of the conference by basically doing the same thing over and over again but with different coaches.

Poor Ole State

 

[Msdeltareb]

What good did that NIL do just a short 5 games ago when they lost 5 of last 6 games, including to little ole cow college MOO U?

Very little, but that doesn't change the math of the post that I was responding to.

 

[Msdeltareb]

I’m saying Kiffin isn’t out there pulling in blue chip QBs. They have gotten worse since his first and second year.

By what measure?

 

[BigDawg0074]

By what measure?

They were a ******** call way from seven wins last year. They aren’t terrible but Kiffin isn’t some kind of savant. He’s better than what we have currently but he doesn’t represent some unreachable goal of coaching talent for Mississippi State.

 

[NWADawg]

Funny about the 91 Liberty bowl, we ran an option offense ourselves that year. Our defense should have seen that offense plenty.

We lost the 91 liberty because we were hung over.

Agree. Some buddies told me they saw numerous players knee walking drunk at like 2:00 am the night before the game.

 

[Msdeltareb]

They were a ******** call way from seven wins last year. They aren’t terrible but Kiffin isn’t some kind of savant. He’s better than what we have currently but he doesn’t represent some unreachable goal of coaching talent for Mississippi State.

Agree that he probably isn’t a level of coach that MSU cant attain but I’m not sure he isnt a savant in some ways and you said he isn’t bringing in blue chip qb…he’s doing that.

 

[BigDawg0074]

Agree that he probably isn’t a level
of coach that MSU can attain but I’m not sure he is t a savant in some ways and you said he isn’t bringing in blue chip qb…he’s doing that.

Honestly he does seem like he might be a bit autistic. He has a certain persona that appears to be be mostly media driven. When he’s on a mic he is kinda nervous and surprisingly reserved.