OT: 4 Day School Week

PooPopsBaldHead

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Based on preliminary survey results, looks like my local school district is going to a 4 day week starting in 2025-26.

I was originally against it because I thought it would add a burden to working parents on finding Friday childcare, but it looks the school district is going to offer a Friday program for those who need it.

The 4 school days will be from 8:30-4:30 which will cut down on after school childcare. They'll move all of the random teacher workdays to Fridays as well.


Anyone else in a district doing this or talking about it? Thoughts? Not a needle mover either way on education outcomes apparently.
 

DesotoCountyDawg

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Not any talk of that yet. Theres been a shift by quite a few districts to year round school schedules
 

8dog

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Based on preliminary survey results, looks like my local school district is going to a 4 day week starting in 2025-26.

I was originally against it because I thought it would add a burden to working parents on finding Friday childcare, but it looks the school district is going to offer a Friday program for those who need it.

The 4 school days will be from 8:30-4:30 which will cut down on after school childcare. They'll move all of the random teacher workdays to Fridays as well.


Anyone else in a district doing this or talking about it? Thoughts? Not a needle mover either way on education outcomes apparently.
Will athletic teams have the last period to practice?
 

Perd Hapley

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Sep 30, 2022
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Based on preliminary survey results, looks like my local school district is going to a 4 day week starting in 2025-26.

I was originally against it because I thought it would add a burden to working parents on finding Friday childcare, but it looks the school district is going to offer a Friday program for those who need it.

The 4 school days will be from 8:30-4:30 which will cut down on after school childcare. They'll move all of the random teacher workdays to Fridays as well.


Anyone else in a district doing this or talking about it? Thoughts? Not a needle mover either way on education outcomes apparently.
Honestly, sounds awesome. Wish the whole world would go to a 4 days a week schedule.
 

woozman

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Not any talk of that yet. Theres been a shift by quite a few districts to year round school schedules
My kids are doing the year round schedule this year: It’s worked out so far - their summer was cut short, but they were just hitting the end of summer boredom when they went back and they liked the long fall break followed a month or so later by the Christmas break.
 
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ETK99

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I'd have to stop day drinking when I work at home on Fridays. Or I'd start?
 
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johnson86-1

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Based on preliminary survey results, looks like my local school district is going to a 4 day week starting in 2025-26.

I was originally against it because I thought it would add a burden to working parents on finding Friday childcare, but it looks the school district is going to offer a Friday program for those who need it.

The 4 school days will be from 8:30-4:30 which will cut down on after school childcare. They'll move all of the random teacher workdays to Fridays as well.


Anyone else in a district doing this or talking about it? Thoughts? Not a needle mover either way on education outcomes apparently.
I would be surprised if there aren’t a lot of kids that struggle to stay focused that long. Would also suck in the winter when kids don’t get home until after dark. Mine would not do well with that I don’t think.

also surprised that a three day weekend every week doesn’t hurt lower socioeconomic kids more. I feel 17ing lost for half a day back at work after a three day weekend.
 

theoriginalSALTYdog

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Based on preliminary survey results, looks like my local school district is going to a 4 day week starting in 2025-26.

I was originally against it because I thought it would add a burden to working parents on finding Friday childcare, but it looks the school district is going to offer a Friday program for those who need it.

The 4 school days will be from 8:30-4:30 which will cut down on after school childcare. They'll move all of the random teacher workdays to Fridays as well.


Anyone else in a district doing this or talking about it? Thoughts? Not a needle mover either way on education outcomes apparently.

If they're going to that model won't they have to extend the school year? That's essentially going from 35 hours of school per week to 32. That doesn't sound like much but over the course of the normal school year that's approximately 3 weeks less time in the classroom.
 

ZombieKissinger

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May 29, 2013
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Are kids getting homework like they normally do with this, or is it structured around knocking out extra work on Fridays? Would be hard to be in school that long, practice sports, then have homework after. Sounds OK to me, though I'd have questions about how that Friday program is structured.
 

Ozarkdawg

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Apr 1, 2017
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Based on preliminary survey results, looks like my local school district is going to a 4 day week starting in 2025-26.

I was originally against it because I thought it would add a burden to working parents on finding Friday childcare, but it looks the school district is going to offer a Friday program for those who need it.

The 4 school days will be from 8:30-4:30 which will cut down on after school childcare. They'll move all of the random teacher workdays to Fridays as well.


Anyone else in a district doing this or talking about it? Thoughts? Not a needle mover either way on education outcomes apparently.Work four 10's now and if that ended I'd prob look for another one. Spoiled and do not want to go back to five days.

I work four 10s and never plan to go back.


Question on teacher hours and Fridays. 8:30-4:30 prob means 7:45-5pm for teachers. Do they do every Friday, every 2nd Friday, 1 per month?
 

PooPopsBaldHead

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If they're going to that model won't they have to extend the school year? That's essentially going from 35 hours of school per week to 32. That doesn't sound like much but over the course of the normal school year that's approximately 3 weeks less time in the classroom.
We already have a 32 hour school week so it's a push. They would likely shorten the year in the process. I was talking to a middle school teacher about it this afternoon and he said we would likely kill all Monday holidays and teacher work days.

Some states (like Mississippi) have a minimum number of days the kids must be in school (180). Others have a number of hours, ours is 990 hours a year. Our district is currently pushing 1150, so we have a lot of wiggle room.
 

ronpolk

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Not any talk of that yet. Theres been a shift by quite a few districts to year round school schedules
I thought Madison county was going to move to that for the 2024-2025 school year but they decided not to. Not sure how others were doing it, but for Madison, it was essentially going 2 weeks sooner (starting 2nd week of July I think) and taking 2 weeks for fall break and 2 weeks for spring break. I was pretty indifferent to it I guess
 

DesotoCountyDawg

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I thought Madison county was going to move to that for the 2024-2025 school year but they decided not to. Not sure how others were doing it, but for Madison, it was essentially going 2 weeks sooner (starting 2nd week of July I think) and taking 2 weeks for fall break and 2 weeks for spring break. I was pretty indifferent to it I guess
The school districts that have gone to it around here seem to like it. It’s different for sure. Desoto County has pretty much said they aren’t changing anytime soon. Main reason is the downtime in the summer allows them to get all the maintenance and construction on school buildings completed.
 

Perd Hapley

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If they're going to that model won't they have to extend the school year? That's essentially going from 35 hours of school per week to 32. That doesn't sound like much but over the course of the normal school year that's approximately 3 weeks less time in the classroom.
Our district is 8:00-2:30 daily with a 30 min lunch (6 hr class room time), so its also a wash if you made it 8:30-4:30. You’re just adding 1.5 hrs to each of the 4 days, and cutting out one lunch period.
 
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Captain Ron

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It is amazing what can be accomplished in a 3 day school week. In 6th grade, we switched the daughter over to a private school which was Tuesday through Thursday 8-1 with the option of a Friday study hall.

The whole thing was similar to a college schedule and did require real study time at home and the discipline to not wait till the last minute to get the homework done. We loved it because it allowed us to travel and to spend more time with the kid as you only get them for a few years.

A move lead us back to a public school for her senior year. She could not believe what she saw as all the wasted time in the daily schedule. She is now majoring in engineering in college and excelling. She had always done well, so it wasn’t a huge surprise, but we had friends whose kids who were not A students before transferring to my daughter’s school who then became A students. They were like “am I buying grades?” That was until they also got to college and are now making straight A’s.

I get the child care aspect of the school system, but there is SO much more than can be accomplished with regards to education in a much shorter amount of time than we have allowed.

 

PooPopsBaldHead

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It is amazing what can be accomplished in a 3 day school week. In 6th grade, we switched the daughter over to a private school which was Tuesday through Thursday 8-1 with the option of a Friday study hall.

The whole thing was similar to a college schedule and did require real study time at home and the discipline to not wait till the last minute to get the homework done. We loved it because it allowed us to travel and to spend more time with the kid as you only get them for a few years.

A move lead us back to a public school for her senior year. She could not believe what she saw as all the wasted time in the daily schedule. She is now majoring in engineering in college and excelling. She had always done well, so it wasn’t a huge surprise, but we had friends whose kids who were not A students before transferring to my daughter’s school who then became A students. They were like “am I buying grades?” That was until they also got to college and are now making straight A’s.

I get the child care aspect of the school system, but there is SO much more than can be accomplished with regards to education in a much shorter amount of time than we have allowed.

Good to hear it can have good educational outcomes.

The 4 day week is really gaining traction out west, particularly in rural districts like ours. Half the school districts in the state have moved to it. Our kids (at least in our town) are extremely active in sports and other outdoor activities.

Because we are so spread out (our 3A district has 5 teams in it and the other 4 are 2-4 hours away and they all are now on 4 day weeks) our teams often have to travel 6+ hours for out of district games. On a road game Friday in the fall, if you add up the varsity, JV, 7th & 8th grade football teams, plus cheer, soccer , and volleyball... 30% of the district will miss that school day since younger siblings go with their families to games

After football season ends basketball, wrestling, hockey, and skiing may actually make it worse in the winter since they all (except basketball) compete out of state on many weekends.


I don't just think it's sports that are driving the push for the 4 day week, but also just the quality time with a family. Took our kids out of school for the week in October to go to Yellowstone (6.5 hours away.) We might have just left on a Wednesday afternoon and only had them miss one day if it was a 4 day week. But whether they missed 5 days or 1, a week in Yellowstone during the fall trumps a year of classroom education imo. I think a lot of parents feel that way these days and the perfect attendance ribbon is much less important than it was when I was a kid.

So hopefully the 4 day week allows us to keep the kids in school more in a lot of ways.
 
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jethreauxdawg

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Covid has left most of them behind already. They should be going 8:30 to 4:30 six days a week to get them catch up. ***********
And allow for more gov’t parenting of the kids.

I’m replying in the wrong spot, but to echo Capt Ron, being in school so long is not an academic benefit to kids. If there were a school like the one his kids were in around here, mine would probably be going there.
 

Perd Hapley

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And allow for more gov’t parenting of the kids.

I’m replying in the wrong spot, but to echo Capt Ron, being in school so long is not an academic benefit to kids. If there were a school like the one his kids were in around here, mine would probably be going there.
You’re saying the quiet part out loud….the whole country has devised a system where both public and private schools (and even the after school activities and programs for both) have to also be de facto day care for working families. That’s the entire purpose behind the inefficiency.
 
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SwampDawg

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If they're going to that model won't they have to extend the school year? That's essentially going from 35 hours of school per week to 32. That doesn't sound like much but over the course of the normal school year that's approximately 3 weeks less time in the classroom.
That's what I was thinking. Also, will we cut the teachers' pay by 20%.
 
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PooPopsBaldHead

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That's what I was thinking. Also, will we cut the teachers' pay by 20%.
It's not less time in school. The current elementary school day is 6.5 hours long. The new one will be 8 hours. If you went 180 days for 6.5 hours that's 1170 hours per year. If you go 147 days for 8 hours that's equal to 1176 hours.

Kids are off every Friday. Teachers work 1-2 Fridays a month for stuff like teacher work days. Schools are in session for minor monday holidays like Columbus Day, MLK day, Presidents Day.

It's no different than working 4 10's vs 5 8's for us regular folks. Teachers will still have to put in the same level of effort/time, they just get a bunch of 3 day weekends. Which is a nice recruiting tool that does make a lower paying district more attractive.

Here's a snip of a district schedule currently on 4 days. Red is teacher only days and blue is students and teachers.

1000012684.png
 

johnson86-1

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You’re saying the quiet part out loud….the whole country has devised a system where both public and private schools (and even the after school activities and programs for both) have to also be de facto day care for working families. That’s the entire purpose behind the inefficiency.

That's driving how long the kids are in school, but there is nothing requiring that they be inefficient. Part of it is just class size. It takes a while to get 25 kids under 10 moving in the same direction and doing work.

A bigger part of it is resistance to tracking (which pisses me off to no end). Rather than have a system that groups students by what they know and what they can learn and have all students spend time moving at an appropriate speed, we mostly group randomly and guarantee that students that are ahead are sitting around for much of the day and depending on the teacher, and depending on the school's approach, have the rest of the kids also learning at the pace of the students that are relatively further behind, or have the students that are relatively further behind struggle to keep up.

Part of it is being unrealistic about what children can do. I know our school could do much better if they extended the day by a half hour and gave an hour more of recess.

A big part of it is there is just no competitive pressure to be better. Schools, particularly public schools, just have to be good enough to not scare parents away. So that's generally what they strive for. Some do better, but not to the extent that they are really efficient.


If we had had the money, I definitely think homeschooling would have been the way to go. Schools are generally just not a great environment and waste so much time and potential. For better or worse, we basically chose to be in a position to help them more when they are older than forgo lifetime income from one spouse to be a little more intensive for a decade or a decade and a half. I'm still fine with that tradeoff, but definitely two working parents is suboptimal.
 

Dawgg

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My kids' school district sent out a survey last year to gauge reception and feasibility. I listed the same issue (child care on Fridays) as a potential issue (not for me, but for other parents in the district).

So, this year is a hybrid model. Every 3rd week is a four day work week. They added 15 minutes to the end of the school day. On one hand, I like it because I work from home most days and I get a little more time with the kids. On the other hand, it means I have to have more interaction with my ex-wife since Fridays are our switch days.
 

Pilgrimdawg

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My kids are grown so I don’t have a dog in the fight but I will say that after school activities like sports, cheer, band, etc, are a huge and very important part of kids overall education. Whatever they do I hope they plan appropriately for those activities. I always felt that my boys playing sports did as much to prepare them for real adult life as the academic portion of their education.
 

LordMcBuckethead

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Based on preliminary survey results, looks like my local school district is going to a 4 day week starting in 2025-26.

I was originally against it because I thought it would add a burden to working parents on finding Friday childcare, but it looks the school district is going to offer a Friday program for those who need it.

The 4 school days will be from 8:30-4:30 which will cut down on after school childcare. They'll move all of the random teacher workdays to Fridays as well.


Anyone else in a district doing this or talking about it? Thoughts? Not a needle mover either way on education outcomes apparently.
That sounds like a much better solution all around for everyone. I still don't for the life of me understand why school couldn't just be 8-5. It would save this country a **** ton of money on childcare. Really make too much sense. Teachers would then work a full day. All activities should be organized where grading happens as much as possible digitally. Also, they should have a set curriculum nationwide with maybe 5 different pathways for each class. That way all lesson plans are already put together, nationwide. Have 5 different groups establish the 5 different lesson plans for the entire country.
All of this should be way more straight forward.
Also, allow each state to send 2 delegates to be on the teams that put together the curriculum. Spend 3 years putting this thing together before you start.
 

LordMcBuckethead

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The school districts that have gone to it around here seem to like it. It’s different for sure. Desoto County has pretty much said they aren’t changing anytime soon. Main reason is the downtime in the summer allows them to get all the maintenance and construction on school buildings completed.
Year around is a gigantic Fn problem for school districts with renovations. I would not recommend. Also, what are parents supposed to do when young kids are off for 2 damn weeks in the middle of October and March?
 

cfree3434

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Based on preliminary survey results, looks like my local school district is going to a 4 day week starting in 2025-26.

I was originally against it because I thought it would add a burden to working parents on finding Friday childcare, but it looks the school district is going to offer a Friday program for those who need it.

The 4 school days will be from 8:30-4:30 which will cut down on after school childcare. They'll move all of the random teacher workdays to Fridays as well.


Anyone else in a district doing this or talking about it? Thoughts? Not a needle mover either way on education outcomes apparently.
What school district are you in?
 

mstateglfr

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If we had had the money, I definitely think homeschooling would have been the way to go. Schools are generally just not a great environment and waste so much time and potential.
Between my wife and I we have 3 degrees and a 4th is being worked on. I dont think for a minute that we could competently teach our kids what they are learning in school. Some of it?...yeah of course. Most of it?...nope.
Pre-calc? Nope.
AP Physics? Nope
AP Lit&Lang?...maybe?
Civil Engineering and Architecture 2 period class? Nope
CAD? Nope.
Into to Graphic Design? Nope.
Yearbook? Nope...but I dismiss this and dont view it as worth considering either way.

^ thats the current spring semester class list for one of em.
Prior years?...she would be screwed when it came to the math classes, AP Bio, AP Chem, etc etc. I bet I would have been great at teaching her APHUG...and it would have been exhausting to learn everything before teaching it. Pottery? nope. etc etc etc.

If we had the money to afford homeschooling, I would probably say it should be spent on a tutor or personalized teacher that works with only a few kids.
Us teaching that stuff would be a shitshow and disservice.
Heck, even some of what our 7th grader does shouldnt be taught be us.
 
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Dogdazey

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Covid has left most of them behind already. They should be going 8:30 to 4:30 six days a week to get them catch up. ***********
I'm almost positive you meant caught up, just a little Freudian slip. But, as an educator, covid had effects on a considerable amount of the elementary students during 19, 20, and 21. They didn't get the fundamentals needed for academic excellence per normal. But the kids that actually logged into google classroom and did the work the teacher's gave, didn't miss a beat. An extra hour and a half won't help the ones that missed the fundamental skills and you aren't getting them to come on any Saturday.
 

Dogdazey

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It's not less time in school. The current elementary school day is 6.5 hours long. The new one will be 8 hours. If you went 180 days for 6.5 hours that's 1170 hours per year. If you go 147 days for 8 hours that's equal to 1176 hours.

Kids are off every Friday. Teachers work 1-2 Fridays a month for stuff like teacher work days. Schools are in session for minor monday holidays like Columbus Day, MLK day, Presidents Day.

It's no different than working 4 10's vs 5 8's for us regular folks. Teachers will still have to put in the same level of effort/time, they just get a bunch of 3 day weekends. Which is a nice recruiting tool that does make a lower paying district more attractive.

Here's a snip of a district schedule currently on 4 days. Red is teacher only days and blue is students and teachers.

View attachment 519551
Just wondering... If teachers are already gonna work 4 - 10 hour days, why are they being required to come in any Fridays? Unless you are looking to raise teacher pay, I suppose some Friday work days might work. I myself as an educator wouldn't be for it. I like the 4 - 10 hour work week, but that's where I stop.
 

Darryl Steight

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I'm almost positive you meant caught up, just a little Freudian slip. But, as an educator, covid had effects on a considerable amount of the elementary students during 19, 20, and 21. They didn't get the fundamentals needed for academic excellence per normal. But the kids that actually logged into google classroom and did the work the teacher's gave, didn't miss a beat. An extra hour and a half won't help the ones that missed the fundamental skills and you aren't getting them to come on any Saturday.
There have been some studies done on why Asian students (China I think mostly) fare better in latter school years on average than US kids - particularly in math. Some of it is culture and focus on academic achievement, but one big theory is related to the school calendar. Chinese kids go to school year round, and there is something to this. Even in schools where the total hours add up equally, with shorter days or 4 day weeks basically equaling the number of hours in the typical school calendar here, they advanced faster in math and other subjects.

The result of at least one of the studies said it was because there was no "summer brain drain" for the Chinese students. Basically, our kids spend the first month or so of each school year going back over what they learned in April and May. I'm sure hundreds of hours of X-box and YouTube Shorts during the summer don't help at all either. The Chinese just keep pushing forward throughout the whole year while our kids take every summer off. Probably some truth to it.
 

johnson86-1

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Between my wife and I we have 3 degrees and a 4th is being worked on. I dont think for a minute that we could competently teach our kids what they are learning in school. Some of it?...yeah of course. Most of it?...nope.
Pre-calc? Nope.
AP Physics? Nope
AP Lit&Lang?...maybe?
Civil Engineering and Architecture 2 period class? Nope
CAD? Nope.
Into to Graphic Design? Nope.
Yearbook? Nope...but I dismiss this and dont view it as worth considering either way.

^ thats the current spring semester class list for one of em.
Prior years?...she would be screwed when it came to the math classes, AP Bio, AP Chem, etc etc. I bet I would have been great at teaching her APHUG...and it would have been exhausting to learn everything before teaching it. Pottery? nope. etc etc etc.

I was thinking more of elementary and early Jr. High. We could blow through everything they learn in school and then some in two hours a day. But I also think you're overestimating what you need to know to get through high school. Granted plenty of parents can't do high school math or chemistry anymore (or never could), but if you can do the core things like that, there are plenty of programs that teach the specific areas of interest for you if you have a jr. high or high school age kid that is interested. There are coding kits that my kids have done that are good and haven't required me to do anything more than go through it with them. Same with CAD.

I probably wouldn't try to do it for high school even if I had the money just out of concern that they wouldn't get the "normal" stuff that might matter not for actual knowledge for for signaling purposes, but I wouldn't have any concern that they wouldn't finish high school better prepared that the equivalent student from any of our local public or private schools.


If we had the money to afford homeschooling, I would probably say it should be spent on a tutor or personalized teacher that works with only a few kids.
Us teaching that stuff would be a shitshow and disservice.
Heck, even some of what our 7th grader does shouldnt be taught be us.
Not sure how representative this is, but that seems to be sort of what happens around here for younger students. It seems to be pretty popular for home school families to get together and essentially trade off kids based on age. So instead of having to try to teach your own kids and either do it sequentially (and thus take up a lot of the day) or try keep all of them moving at the same time with very different, age appropriate materials, everybody ends up teaching a few kids around the same age, only one of which tends to be their own kid. Haven't seen how that works when they get to jr high where not everybody can do every subject, although these tend to be affluent people so maybe for the most part they can do every subject through Jr. High, or can just divide up based on who is good at which subject.
 

GloryDawg

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I'm almost positive you meant caught up, just a little Freudian slip. But, as an educator, covid had effects on a considerable amount of the elementary students during 19, 20, and 21. They didn't get the fundamentals needed for academic excellence per normal. But the kids that actually logged into google classroom and did the work the teacher's gave, didn't miss a beat. An extra hour and a half won't help the ones that missed the fundamental skills and you aren't getting them to come on any Saturday.
I was joking. When you see ******* after a sentence it was sarcasm.
 

jethreauxdawg

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Dec 20, 2010
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Between my wife and I we have 3 degrees and a 4th is being worked on. I dont think for a minute that we could competently teach our kids what they are learning in school. Some of it?...yeah of course. Most of it?...nope.
Pre-calc? Nope.
AP Physics? Nope
AP Lit&Lang?...maybe?
Civil Engineering and Architecture 2 period class? Nope
CAD? Nope.
Into to Graphic Design? Nope.
Yearbook? Nope...but I dismiss this and dont view it as worth considering either way.

^ thats the current spring semester class list for one of em.
Prior years?...she would be screwed when it came to the math classes, AP Bio, AP Chem, etc etc. I bet I would have been great at teaching her APHUG...and it would have been exhausting to learn everything before teaching it. Pottery? nope. etc etc etc.

If we had the money to afford homeschooling, I would probably say it should be spent on a tutor or personalized teacher that works with only a few kids.
Us teaching that stuff would be a shitshow and disservice.
Heck, even some of what our 7th grader does shouldnt be taught be us.
Not entirely disagreeing with you, but you and your wife are probably more qualified to teach than some professional teachers. NOT SAYING ALL TEACHERS ARE TERRIBLE, before someone jumps to that conclusion.
Also, in some cities, such as Memphis, pretty much any class is available to “homeschool” kids.
 

ZombieKissinger

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Between my wife and I we have 3 degrees and a 4th is being worked on. I dont think for a minute that we could competently teach our kids what they are learning in school. Some of it?...yeah of course. Most of it?...nope.
Pre-calc? Nope.
AP Physics? Nope
AP Lit&Lang?...maybe?
Civil Engineering and Architecture 2 period class? Nope
CAD? Nope.
Into to Graphic Design? Nope.
Yearbook? Nope...but I dismiss this and dont view it as worth considering either way.

^ thats the current spring semester class list for one of em.
Prior years?...she would be screwed when it came to the math classes, AP Bio, AP Chem, etc etc. I bet I would have been great at teaching her APHUG...and it would have been exhausting to learn everything before teaching it. Pottery? nope. etc etc etc.

If we had the money to afford homeschooling, I would probably say it should be spent on a tutor or personalized teacher that works with only a few kids.
Us teaching that stuff would be a shitshow and disservice.
Heck, even some of what our 7th grader does shouldnt be taught be us.
I can teach all this and more. If anyone wants to hire me, I will consider it.
 
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