OT: Best School Option

[PooPopsBaldHead]

So when you look at school rankings, I assume those are usually focused on the overall mean student. But what about when you have a kid that is a on the outer edges of the bell curve?

Would you rather your kid go to a smaller 3-4A high school that is overall more highly ranked, but may not have some of the course/club options of a bigger 7a school. If the kid is a high achiever, do they have a better chance pushing themselves further at the school with more offerings and potentially more students in his/her ability level, or is there a reason they might benefit more from the being the "big fish" in a smaller pond scenario?

I guess same applies with sports... Would you rather the kid be a shoe in to be a star at a smaller school, or go compete to try become a star at the bigger school?

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Smaller will generally offer more individuality and uniqueness, if that makes sense. Bigger will be more assembly line. Especially for the type kid you’re talking about. But bigger may offer a different type of activity, like you said.

Depends on what you value, I guess. If the kid is a good athlete and wants to play multiple sports, I’d go smaller. If they want to be in a play, I’d go bigger.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Larger offers way more educationally than a small school. Small schools are simply smaller classes and everybody knows everybody. Some smaller private schools (even if they're considered large by private school standards) offer more educationally as well. If I had to do it over, I'd consider the rankings some but would check into which offers more for my kid as far as their goals going forward. If you were in MS, I'd say avoid pretty much every school below 3A size even if rankings are good, because I've seen how those rankings are manipulated.

 

[AADAWG]

OG is right, it really depends on the kid and their personal interests because one size doesn’t fit all. It is up to the kid to take or make opportunities. Realistically, if you’re looking for a post-high school advantage for a kid on the upper edge of the bell curve, you’ve got to remember that kid isn’t really competing with the kids within the 4 walls of his school. There is likely always going to be a bigger fish or a bigger pond somewhere that they will encounter, so they need to prepare for that. From experience, my kids have taken advantage of all the opportunities a large school has offered and have benefitted from having those advantages. They still would be successful without them, but the road would be longer and harder without them.

 

[dorndawg]

I think it also comes down to what do you perceive as the kid's route after college. If you see them attending a top 50 or whatever college, a kid is likely to have a better shot at the bigger school between increased AP offerings and EC activities. If a kid is more likely to come back to where they've grown up, and attend a trade school/in-state college, that smaller school could be the better fit.

 

[johnson86-1]

So when you look at school rankings, I assume those are usually focused on the overall mean student. But what about when you have a kid that is a on the outer edges of the bell curve?

Yes, most school rankings are mostly worthless except as a proxy for the SES and demographics of those attending. You should not be scared off by mediocre test scores as long as you have evidence showing that students like your child are maximizing their talent.

Would you rather your kid go to a smaller 3-4A high school that is overall more highly ranked, but may not have some of the course/club options of a bigger 7a school. If the kid is a high achiever, do they have a better chance pushing themselves further at the school with more offerings and potentially more students in his/her ability level, or is there a reason they might benefit more from the being the "big fish" in a smaller pond scenario?

I guess same applies with sports... Would you rather the kid be a shoe in to be a star at a smaller school, or go compete to try become a star at the bigger school?

I'm not sure what 3-4A equates to where you live, but I'd say once you get more than 100ish students per class, if the school is in a reasonably affluent area, there's no reason they can't offer more advanced classes than your child can take. They may not have niche classes and the extra curriculars like Robotics or whatever probably won't be the best unless it just happens to be a specialty of that school, but it should have enough.

I'd generally say most children and teenagers would be better off in a school with a 100-150 students per grade than 400-500 students per grade. The only caveats would be if they are going to be a student that is a standout at something that gives them identify, even with 400-500 students, or if they are odd enough that they might need 400-500 studnets in a class to make it likely that they will find other students like them with similar interests. I feel like when you get below 100, the risk gets high that there's not enough diversity (meaning true diversity, not just different skin colors) and students that are slightly odd might be left with no natural friend group.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I'm not sure what 3-4A equates to where you live, but I'd say once you get more than 100ish students per class, if the school is in a reasonably affluent area, there's no reason they can't offer more advanced classes than your child can take. They may not have niche classes and the extra curriculars like Robotics or whatever probably won't be the best unless it just happens to be a specialty of that school, but it should have enough.

But how many of those schools exist?

I’m thinking they’re few and far between unless they’re private or similar to MSMS because you know families love to flock to affluent areas with perceived-great schools.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

Home school, ya lazy bum. Don't leave your child's education to the government or privateers!****

 

[ETK99]

My kids graduated from a 2A/1A school in MS. It wasn't a highly rated school. They got a solid education but when they got to college, the higher level kids from larger schools were ahead in a lot of areas and mine had to adjust and catch up and that took up a lot of time. One played college softball, one passed on playing Juco ball for premed. One is about to finish PA school at State. One is still rolling along successfully in premed (biochem).
They'll both tell you they wished they had had the opportunity to take some of the classes these kids at larger schools got. Education is about opportunity and a lot of hard work (depending on interests and path forward obviously). Not a lot of opportunity at smaller schools. Mine supplemented their small school education with online classes at a Juco though, so that's always an option to advance some while earning credits.
Got a family member who went to Princeton and attended about a 6A MS school. He said the only thing he felt behind on was the kids up north were better read than him.

 

[615dawg]

I was a high achiever that attended a 2A/3A school. I did okay, and at the end of the day, the scholarships at Southern state universities do not care what high school you went to.

The bigger schools provide more opportunity, but with that opportunity comes a lot of competition. I could see where someone in the top 3% at a small school would be top 10% at a large school. Case in point, I know someone who had a 97.8 GPA and was 26th in her class at a large 7A school.

Even with my daughter now, I am noticing 3-and even 4-way ties for highest average in classes. The tie is at 100. The valedictorians at MC/Germantown both have over a 102 GPA. That's basically perfect - and it depends on how many AP classes one takes.

Education is a very personal decision. Some families priorities make private school a better option. Some students thrive in large public schools and others would freak out in a class of 400+. There isn't a wrong answer if you are talking about Mississippi.

 

[johnson86-1]

But how many of those schools exist?

I’m thinking they’re few and far between unless they’re private or similar to MSMS because you know families love to flock to affluent areas with perceived-great schools.

Probably not many in Mississippi. Maybe not many anywhere. Most places love fewer, massive schools rather than more, medium sized schools. A lot of that is economies of scale. Some of it is you get to boast more about the outliers and most people don't spend as much time thinking about what the experience is for the average student, or even the above average student that isn't top percentile in any one thing.

 

[aTotal360]

I've seen both sides to an extreme. I personally attended at 1A academy and my daughter attends a 6A public school.

I can tell you the bigger schools get more resources and have more opportunities in just about every aspect of schooling. From friend groups, to class options, to special needs, to extracurricular activities.

I'd never recommend going smaller UNLESS that school has a more robust PTA. Our PTAs raises tens of thousands of dollars at the drop of the hat. My son's elementary needed new computers in a few classrooms. Over the course of 48 hrs, we raised enough money to put new machines in every classroom. They just built installed $100k playground as well.

 

[L4Dawg]

So when you look at school rankings, I assume those are usually focused on the overall mean student. But what about when you have a kid that is a on the outer edges of the bell curve?

Would you rather your kid go to a smaller 3-4A high school that is overall more highly ranked, but may not have some of the course/club options of a bigger 7a school. If the kid is a high achiever, do they have a better chance pushing themselves further at the school with more offerings and potentially more students in his/her ability level, or is there a reason they might benefit more from the being the "big fish" in a smaller pond scenario?

I guess same applies with sports... Would you rather the kid be a shoe in to be a star at a smaller school, or go compete to try become a star at the bigger school?

True high achievers will do fine wherever they are.

 

[L4Dawg]

But how many of those schools exist?

I’m thinking they’re few and far between unless they’re private or similar to MSMS because you know families love to flock to affluent areas with perceived-great schools.

There are many of them in NE Miss.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

There are many of them in NE Miss.

Wonder why?***

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Classroom size can be a big factor too especially for elementary age. If there’s 30 kids in a classroom some of the individual one on one gets taken away which can be a big deal for a child that’s maybe struggling with a subject. And that fluctuates from school to school no matter the size.

 

[FormerBully]

I went to a 1A high school in Mississippi. I was top 10 in a class of 50 (I still think my class holds the record for the biggest class). I enjoyed it, but I will be sending my kids to Tupelo because I want my kids to have the most opportunities. Even though I was a smart kid, my school did not prepare me for college. I had to teach myself how to study during my freshman year of college. Also, my school only had three sports: football, baseball, and basketball. We did get golf my last two years. I want my kids to be in a school where they can attempt to play any sport and be prepared to swim in the big pond of work and school.

 

[FormerBully]

Interesting fact. If you have a daughter make her play golf. There are more golf scholarships than actual female golfers. My cousin got a full ride to a sunbelt school for golf and she is a very average golfer.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Home school, ya lazy bum. Don't leave your child's education to the government or privateers!****

Probably not an option where the OP is in Idaho, but in Memphis, there are tons of options for homeschool kids to take specialized classes not offered at many high schools.

 

[Yeti]

Daughter off to top 10 public university this fall. If that’s your goal You need AP classes and strong GPA. Everyone has a strong ACT( at least 25 in English).

 

[Maroon Eagle]

True high achievers will do fine wherever they are.

Eh. It depends in part on the schools’ resources.

I was bored and not challenged at all when I was a student at a 1A academy.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

Probably not an option where the OP is in Idaho, but in Memphis, there are tons of options for homeschool kids to take specialized classes not offered at many high schools.

I was kidding, hence the sarcasterisks.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

I was kidding, hence the sarcasterisks.

I understood, I was just adding more to stir in the pot.

 

[FormerBully]

Probably not an option where the OP is in Idaho, but in Memphis, there are tons of options for homeschool kids to take specialized classes not offered at many high schools.

There was a homeschool team in Baton Rouge when I lived there that smoked everyone. They had a bunch of kids that played high-level travel ball. Schools started refusing to play them. I think serval kids on that team got drafted.

 

[L4Dawg]

Eh. It depends in part on the schools’ resources.

I was bored and not challenged at all when I was a student at a 1A academy.

Did you turn out all right in your career path?

 

[johnson86-1]

True high achievers will do fine wherever they are.

Within reason. There are schools that are just a genuinely harmful environment to be in. And there are schools small enough and with meager enough resources that a gifted child is going to be able to coast easily. If there's nobody to push the child or let them know that they are only being required to do something slightly more than the minimum, they are going to have to do some catching up. Biggest risk is probably somebody without a good background drops something like Engineering or premed because they aren't used to being challenged. Most of them will probably still end up fine but some may end up permanently below their potential.

 

[L4Dawg]

Within reason. There are schools that are just a genuinely harmful environment to be in. And there are schools small enough and with meager enough resources that a gifted child is going to be able to coast easily. If there's nobody to push the child or let them know that they are only being required to do something slightly more than the minimum, they are going to have to do some catching up. Biggest risk is probably somebody without a good background drops something like Engineering or premed because they aren't used to being challenged. Most of them will probably still end up fine but some may end up permanently below their potential.

I said high achievers, not gifted students. There is a difference. There is a not at all subtle difference.

 

[FormerBully]

What you need to do is send your kids to Jackson City schools. It will make them tough. If they handle that, they will handle anything.***

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Did you turn out all right in your career path?

Honestly, the mathematics classes were underwhelming and didn’t help me narrow down my career path before college.

If there were tougher classes in that area, I would have known beforehand if I should have attempted to go in that direction as an undergrad or somewhere else.

What I've done well— I’ve done despite what I was taught at that academy.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

And there are schools small enough and with meager enough resources that a gifted child is going to be able to coast easily. If there's nobody to push the child or let them know that they are only being required to do something slightly more than the minimum, they are going to have to do some catching up. Biggest risk is probably somebody without a good background drops something like Engineering or premed because they aren't used to being challenged. Most of them will probably still end up fine but some may end up permanently below their potential.

My case right here.

1970s-80s Country academies by and large weren’t good educational institutions.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I said high achievers, not gifted students. There is a difference. There is a not at all subtle difference.

Semantics.

Big fish in small ponds— whether they’re high achievers, gifted students, or more commonly in small schools All of the Above — who don’t take additional classes in subject areas not given or emphasized by academically meager schools — private and public— are behind the 8 ball.

 

[johnson86-1]

I said high achievers, not gifted students. There is a difference. There is a not at all subtle difference.

There is a difference, but it doesn't really help to say that students from a subpar education environment that then go on to struggle in college were just gifted, not high achievers. Maybe they would have been high achievers had they been at a better school. Plus there is the question of high achievers at what. I know a person that I would consider a high achiever that owns a landscaping company. He was going to make money doing something pretty much regardless of what school he came from. He makes good money and has a good life and it's not like he is out doing manual labor. But I'm pretty sure he would tell you that he is jealous of his friends that can step away from their business more. He will tell you he is never going to have the flexibility to hire the type of legal workers that he can be hands off with and also be competitive on price.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Probably not many in Mississippi. Maybe not many anywhere. Most places love fewer, massive schools rather than more, medium sized schools. A lot of that is economies of scale. Some of it is you get to boast more about the outliers and most people don't spend as much time thinking about what the experience is for the average student, or even the above average student that isn't top percentile in any one thing.

We are currently in one of these "unicorn" districts. It's a 3A high school and about 115 kids will graduate this weekend. It's ranked as the #3 public high school in the state and top 10% in the country. But after getting to know many of the kids and it very much feels like a high floor situation vs a high ceiling. We are not putting kids into top level colleges. Many of our teachers are alternative certification... It feels like for the higher level AP classes, its more of the kids/parents driving the outcomes vs the teachers. Our district is a 1 high school district and again, as very good on the average.

The alternative is we could move back to the suburbs and get into a very large district, with really good 5A high schools and potentially magnet schools. I'm starting to feel like the smaller, high rated district is great while they are young, but once they get into late middle school or high school, the options/opportunities at the larger school would be beneficial.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

We are currently in one of these "unicorn" districts. It's a 3A high school and about 115 kids will graduate this weekend. It's ranked as the #3 public high school in the state and top 10% in the country. But after getting to know many of the kids and it very much feels like a high floor situation vs a high ceiling. We are not putting kids into top level colleges. Many of our teachers are alternative certification... It feels like for the higher level AP classes, its more of the kids/parents driving the outcomes vs the teachers. Our district is a 1 high school district and again, as very good on the average.

The alternative is we could move back to the suburbs and get into a very large district, with really good 5A high schools and potentially magnet schools. I'm starting to feel like the smaller, high rated district is great while they are young, but once they get into late middle school or high school, the options/opportunities at the larger school would be beneficial.

Your kid can’t qualify for State from the current school?

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Don't get caught up in the rankings. Hell, I just saw where they say Raleigh is a top 5 MS school. I didn't just spit out my whiskey, think I farted too. Talk about laughable!

 

[Crazy Cotton]

So when you look at school rankings, I assume those are usually focused on the overall mean student. But what about when you have a kid that is a on the outer edges of the bell curve?

Would you rather your kid go to a smaller 3-4A high school that is overall more highly ranked, but may not have some of the course/club options of a bigger 7a school. If the kid is a high achiever, do they have a better chance pushing themselves further at the school with more offerings and potentially more students in his/her ability level, or is there a reason they might benefit more from the being the "big fish" in a smaller pond scenario?

I guess same applies with sports... Would you rather the kid be a shoe in to be a star at a smaller school, or go compete to try become a star at the bigger school?

I'll give you my perspective as someone who's worked with undergrads and grad students for 3 decades now.

There's been some big changes in the last decade in the way kids get into med school, so if that's something your kid is considering, here's what's happened:
MCAT changed big-time about 10 years ago, primarily by adding additional sections dealing with social/behavioral sciences. What that means from a practical perspective is undergrads need additional courses above and beyond the old sequence of chem/organic/micro, etc. Now they really need sensation and perception/cog psych, wouldn't hurt to have A&P, physics I&II, biochem, Cal, regression, a neuroscience course wouldn't hurt either. From a practical perspective, the current prereqs are almost impossible to complete in a 4-year span, particularly if the college has a large core sequence.

However, If I get a kid who's been able to rack up college credits in high school through AP or dual enrollment, they have a huge advantage in finishing in a 4-year time frame. They'll also more likely to have taken several years of language, so I can test them out of the language requirement (8 hours more to play with) and they'll more than likely have pre-cal as well. And instead of taking summer courses to keep pace, that kid is going to have the time to do a few internships their junior and senior year which has become almost a necessity for getting in from an undergrad program.

Much the same is going to apply to kids that are looking at other professional schools or competitive grad programs. Coming in with hours in the bank already gives me as their advisor the flexibility to put them on internships, add a minor or an additional major, send them abroad for a semester, etc. All of that makes them more competitive for the next level of education.

So I would look less at the size of the school and more at the availability of advanced courses that your kid could benefit from. Even small schools may offer dual enrollment if there's a community college or university nearby (About 1/3 of my freshman class last semester where kids from the high school in town).

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

I think it depends on who your kids are. Do they like, and excel in the bigger school environment?
By all means stay there. There are fewer sharks in the water in smaller schools.

 

[L4Dawg]

Semantics.

Big fish in small ponds— whether they’re high achievers, gifted students, or more commonly in small schools All of the Above — who don’t take additional classes in subject areas not given or emphasized by academically meager schools — private and public— are behind the 8 ball.

Not necessarily. I graduated from a very small public school. My son graduated from the same one. That school has always turned out students who do very well academically and in later life after they graduate. I'd say size has less to do with it than the culture the school implants in its students.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Guys, Poopopsjoeleesocks lives in like Idaho, he ain’t worried about bullsheet MS public school issues. Y’all can fight over your ‘I’m not racist because I send my kids to public school in lilly white NE MS’ all you want to, but you ain’t answering his questions.

@PooPopsBaldHead, I’d probably stay where you are. You’re ahead of the curve by actually thinking about these things, and not spending all your time on social life shlt, sports, and who they are going with to prom. #hartfield

 

[L4Dawg]

There is a difference, but it doesn't really help to say that students from a subpar education environment that then go on to struggle in college were just gifted, not high achievers. Maybe they would have been high achievers had they been at a better school. Plus there is the question of high achievers at what. I know a person that I would consider a high achiever that owns a landscaping company. He was going to make money doing something pretty much regardless of what school he came from. He makes good money and has a good life and it's not like he is out doing manual labor. But I'm pretty sure he would tell you that he is jealous of his friends that can step away from their business more. He will tell you he is never going to have the flexibility to hire the type of legal workers that he can be hands off with and also be competitive on price.

Small does not equal subpar. Big does not equal better.