I'm sorry, Shes just trying to help your feelings*
OT: Best School Option
- Thread starter PooPopsBaldHead
- Start date
Literally no one is saying that. Everyone is saying there are tradeoffs with both, and some posters weighed in with their personal experiences navigating those tradeoffs. Christ.
I'm not sure the right answer. I graduated in a class of about 80 (down from about 120 at our peak) in the late 90's in Alcorn County, MS. My daughter just graduated in a class of 340 in the DFW metroplex.
Some pros of the big school:
1. OPPORTUNITY, OPPORTUNITY, OPPORTUNITY - There are things available to my kids like art and robotics and theater and engineering and media and dual-credit classes that would have blown my mind at Kossuth in 1998 and would have really helped me actually enjoy the high school experience. For example, their football games have a full on television production facility in the stadium where the kids are manning cameras, directing shots, mixing sound, etc., the kind of stuff I would have loved to have had the opportunity to do. They also could have led to a better college experience because while I was way ahead of the curve in Corinth, MS in terms of my understanding of computers, engineering, and technology, I discovered in college that I was actually way behind, so much so that I felt like I needed to change my major.
2. More of an opportunity to find your 'people' - With the expansive list of clubs, teams, etc., you have more opportunity to find your people and your niche. Being in a small high school, I always felt like I needed to conform to blend in with the pack, but I think a bigger school gives you more of a chance to find like-minded folks with the same interests.
Cons of the big school:
1. Lack of visibility - I've now been to multiple high school open houses for my kids and it's always weird to me to have a teacher not know who my kids are when I mention their names. "What's her name again? What period? Are you sure? Oh, I see her right here. Yeah, she doesn't give me any problems." I couldn't imagine one of my parents going to one of my teachers and them not knowing my name (or every kid in the class). I think it's easier for some kids, especially kids that don't act out or seek out attention, to get lost and just coast because they're 'doing fine'.
2. Possibly too many kids for the spots available in certain activities - This is the flipside to the opportunity. We can have all these great clubs and teams and groups, but for a lot of them, there are only a finite number of spots available. I've also found that if you don't get into some of these niche groups while you're in middle-school, you may never find your way into an opening down the road because the spots are generally prioritized to students that have already been in the program. Now, the flipside to this is that at least 'some' kids get the opportunity while it simply wouldn't exist at a smaller school.
I dunno... overall... I think my kids are getting opportunities that I would have killed for when I was in high school.
Some pros of the big school:
1. OPPORTUNITY, OPPORTUNITY, OPPORTUNITY - There are things available to my kids like art and robotics and theater and engineering and media and dual-credit classes that would have blown my mind at Kossuth in 1998 and would have really helped me actually enjoy the high school experience. For example, their football games have a full on television production facility in the stadium where the kids are manning cameras, directing shots, mixing sound, etc., the kind of stuff I would have loved to have had the opportunity to do. They also could have led to a better college experience because while I was way ahead of the curve in Corinth, MS in terms of my understanding of computers, engineering, and technology, I discovered in college that I was actually way behind, so much so that I felt like I needed to change my major.
2. More of an opportunity to find your 'people' - With the expansive list of clubs, teams, etc., you have more opportunity to find your people and your niche. Being in a small high school, I always felt like I needed to conform to blend in with the pack, but I think a bigger school gives you more of a chance to find like-minded folks with the same interests.
Cons of the big school:
1. Lack of visibility - I've now been to multiple high school open houses for my kids and it's always weird to me to have a teacher not know who my kids are when I mention their names. "What's her name again? What period? Are you sure? Oh, I see her right here. Yeah, she doesn't give me any problems." I couldn't imagine one of my parents going to one of my teachers and them not knowing my name (or every kid in the class). I think it's easier for some kids, especially kids that don't act out or seek out attention, to get lost and just coast because they're 'doing fine'.
2. Possibly too many kids for the spots available in certain activities - This is the flipside to the opportunity. We can have all these great clubs and teams and groups, but for a lot of them, there are only a finite number of spots available. I've also found that if you don't get into some of these niche groups while you're in middle-school, you may never find your way into an opening down the road because the spots are generally prioritized to students that have already been in the program. Now, the flipside to this is that at least 'some' kids get the opportunity while it simply wouldn't exist at a smaller school.
I dunno... overall... I think my kids are getting opportunities that I would have killed for when I was in high school.
I was talking about small schools and the person I was replying too mentioned subpar. I took that to be aimed at small schools. If that wasn't the intention then I took it the wrong way. No need to take the Lord's name in vain.
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Great post. My kid has always played football. He’s now at a 7A school in a big state. The conversation is now, “do you want it? If yes, go to work. If you don’t, find something else.”
I like that. Better now than later.
But there’s pluses for being an athlete at a small school. Only the parents know for sure. And it’s never for sure.
High achievers should go to the bigger school, assuming the bigger school is still pretty good when compared to the higher-ranked smaller school. The high achiever will have more competition at the bigger school (simply due to numbers) and will thus be motivated to aim higher and push himself further. High achievers will be less motivated as a "big fish" in a small pond situation because he will more easily meet his goals.
Same thing for athletics. If the kid is a good athlete and thrives on competition, then he should go to the bigger school. The only way to get better at sports and determine how good you are/can be is to play regularly against great competition.
If this is your kid we're talking about, then nobody knows your kid better than you. Pick the school that feels right and gives your kid the best chance to develop into the kind of person you want him to be. Ask your kid what he thinks about it, listen closely, and use that feedback when making your decision.
Same thing for athletics. If the kid is a good athlete and thrives on competition, then he should go to the bigger school. The only way to get better at sports and determine how good you are/can be is to play regularly against great competition.
If this is your kid we're talking about, then nobody knows your kid better than you. Pick the school that feels right and gives your kid the best chance to develop into the kind of person you want him to be. Ask your kid what he thinks about it, listen closely, and use that feedback when making your decision.
If you bothered to read my previous posts, you would see that I made sure to also include lack of resources which you’ve conveniently ignored.
You come across as a supporter of Small Schools— No Matter What and what you don’t realize is that everyplace isn’t like your fabled Shangri-La, Mississippi.
Mississippi lacks money and education has historically been horrible in this state— and you asking if I did well AFTER I talked about being at a resource-poor small town academy can be seen as insulting because you of all people being an educated soul should know that generally small town Mississippi’s schools have historically sucked.
(Here’s where you say “But Northeast Mississippi…” and where I say “Take off your blinders— Mississippi ain’t JUST the Northeast part of the state”)
You know Mississippi has long been experiencing a brain drain.
I didn’t like going someplace that was small and the offerings were subpar and said so.
Don’t Project your Shangri-La to people who’ve said their experiences have sucked due to lack of resources.
Yeah, you may have been fortunate when you were a child or teenager, but a lot of Mississippians were not.
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No doubt. Again, all things equal, I think smaller is usually better.
It really doesn't take a ton of resources to give kids a great high school education. We had a student body with parents that generally cared about education, and very few that were just awful parents, which is the most critical ingredient. But we didn't spend money on anything. We had ten year old plus text books and a basic but not nice building. But I had an excellent high school education primarily because of 6 teachers. I had one good English teacher, two good math teachers, a good physics teacher, a good biology teacher, and a competent chemistry teacher. I also randomly had two good history teachers, although they weren't as necessary as far as being prepared for college. The advanced classes got access to the best teachers, although we were small enough that they weren't limited to advanced classes. I was well ahead of the vast majority of my peers at State coming onto campus. Even schools like Prep and JA, while I'm sure they had more opportunities for enrichment and probably a competent foreign language teacher (which I did not), they were not ahead of us in core competencies despite having more than twice the students and probably spending 2.5 times as much per student in addition to having a more affluent student body to begin with.
That said, those types of teachers do not grow on trees, and a lot of it was luck of the draw that we had them. Part of it was just not having a ton of opportunities in the area so teaching was more attractive than it would probably be in more prosperous areas. Most of those teachers were teaching because they married well and didn't need much money but wanted to work. A couple had military benefits. One just had family money. But I think in general very few small schools are going to have teachers like that. I'm not sure how many schools with 100-150 students are going to have teachers like that, but I suspect the odds go up when you have 300-400 students.
I've thought about sports. On one hand, I feel like somewhere out there, the second best quarterback (or center or left guard or what have you) in the state is sitting on the bench behind the best quarterback in the state at a 6A or 7A school, and will never start and will only have garbage time and won't get the college offers that we would have if he was at literally any other school in the state. On the other hand, iron sharpens iron and if he can develop that competition mentality in an environment where he's competing against some of the best his state has to offer, then he's probably going to write his own D1 ticket.
ETA: I do want to add that having family that was a 'star' on a state ranked 1A school really opened my eyes to the reality of how those 1A football players are perceived by D1 colleges. Some of these guys are good enough to play D1, but because of their competition at the high school level, they're seen as 'lesser than' and they have to prove themselves in JUCO or D2 and some never make that transition.
You're right. Only the parents really know for sure.
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This was me. I didn't know I needed to do more because I excelled at the classes that were put in front of me. The internet was becoming a thing, but not like it is now, so the public library was still my only real source of outside education and, for example, the computer programming books at the Corinth, MS public library were all about the BASIC language and written in the 1980's. Then I got to college and I really struggled, mostly because I never had to study before, but especially with math, science, and computer science. I went into college thinking I was going to major in electrical engineering or computer science, but I got into C++ and realized everybody around me was already miles down the road and I would probably never catch up. Honestly, I never did, so I changed my major and went in a different trajectory. Yes, part of that was my work ethic at the time, but again, I never had to put work into school before and didn't really know how.
Also, I have to say, as a graduate of a Northeast Mississippi High School... if NE Mississippi is the gold standard that people want to hold up for the entire state, then Mississippi is in worse shape than I thought.
@Dawgg — Mississippi schools really needed dual enrollment early.
Students like us back in the day would have benefitted immensely from it.
(hmph — not a secure link — IHL really needs to upgrade)
Students like us back in the day would have benefitted immensely from it.
(hmph — not a secure link — IHL really needs to upgrade)
My first degree was in education. I have taught school and observed in others, most of them not small. I come from a big family of educators. I'm not talking from limited experience in or knowledge of the subject. Resources are overrated. They certainly help but the culture of the school is by far more important. That starts with the parents and community at large. If it places real importance on education then you will generally have a good school no matter the disadvantages it faces. If it doesn't then the school won't be so good, even if it has plenty of resources. My question on how you turned out was more of a comment than a question. You turned out ok despite the school you went to. I expect, from the way you post, you are a high achiever that would do well in any situation. Now it could also be that maybe your little school was better than you think. I'll be the first to admit that we are lucky up here. We have a number of fantastic public schools of all sizes. That being said it's not really luck. Those communities blessed with good schools in this area embrace public education and really put an emphasis on education in general. Some of these schools have a lot of resources, some don't. That's why I don't have much respect for that excuse.
You realize you pretty much admitted to someone who’s been in higher ed for over 20 years that you have little idea how lack of resources at small schools negatively affects students when they transition to colleges.
Oh I agree. I'm seeing kids walk out of my kids' high school with an associate's degree and at least a year or more shaved off their college and it's just an amazing opportunity for them. I never necessarily wanted an associates from, say, NEMCC, but if it gave me an opportunity to take "computer science" that wasn't DOS based spreadsheet software or word processing, then I would have loved it.
Also, if there was ever a better demonstration of Mississippi's IHL being behind the times than not having an https URL in 2024, I would love to see it.
I know what you do. I have lived this kind of thing from both sides. Culture matters a lot more than resources with ultimate student outcomes. College isn't the end product you know. Did you ever teach below higher Ed level? Lack of resources does hurt, but it is also an excuse. It can be and has been overcome in many places.
Disagree. It’s roughly 50-50.
You can have a good culture consisting of a supportive family environment and access to library resources but it can be and was often easily overridden by godawful offerings of classes— especially before the Internet.
Thank goodness that there’s dual enrollment now.
Here’s Dawgg’s post from earlier this morning:
Make sure they go somewhere where they can learn Hindi and Chinese/Japanese so they can understand their professors if they're going science/mathematics based degree programs (And I'm not joking). At State, it's crazy how some professors can barely speak English and can't really communicate with students much.
Big schools can also have a lack of resources, or at least a lack of putting those resources to good use. The main benefit of any big school is only realized when the 'big' means an influx of good students and good parents.
I love how @L4Dawg says this:
"I'll be the first to admit that we are lucky up here. We have a number of fantastic public schools of all sizes. That being said it's not really luck. Those communities blessed with good schools in this area embrace public education and really put an emphasis on education in general. Some of these schools have a lot of resources, some don't. That's why I don't have much respect for that excuse."
Talk about patting yourselves on the back. Let's get real here, it's not because you embrace public education. Most towns, in general, would embrace public education if it was a true option for them. Not because it's good or bad, but because it's free, it's there, it's a major employer, and it's touted as a good metric to recruit. But schools are only as good as their students. If a bunch of poor, broken families who don't care about anything, suddenly shipped their kids to your school, your school would cease to be "good" no matter how much you embraced it. Basically, what I am saying is, you are not special for supporting your local schools, especially when it's easy to do so. What I will give you credit for, is finding a good, small community in which to live.
But when communities grow, there are good and bad things that come with that. You say you want to grow NE MS, but I doubt you'd like some of the side effects.
I'm a sophomore at State. I graduated from a 7A school that is arguably the best public high school in the state. I was one of like 10 kids in my class with a 34 or better on my ACT. I finished with a 99.7 NGA (or GPA if you would prefer to call it that). That was good enough for 17th in my class. The top kids were pushed very hard, and we had plenty of AP/Dual Enrollment classes to pick from, as well as ACT and PSAT prep classes.
When I got to State, I definently noticed the difference in quality of education. You could kind of tell who went to schools with relatively low resources. I think everyone who cares about academics eventually adjusts, but those first months in college could be pretty rough for a kid who went to a school that didn't have a ton of resources.
My school is an assembly line for churning out high achievers. Never once did my school make me feel special. But that assembly line works. College was still a little bit of an adjustment, but I felt very prepared.
In my opinion, I think choosing the big school with the most resources is the best option if private school is off the table (I know he lives in Idaho, but I'd put my school up against just about any private school in MS as far as academic quality).
When I got to State, I definently noticed the difference in quality of education. You could kind of tell who went to schools with relatively low resources. I think everyone who cares about academics eventually adjusts, but those first months in college could be pretty rough for a kid who went to a school that didn't have a ton of resources.
My school is an assembly line for churning out high achievers. Never once did my school make me feel special. But that assembly line works. College was still a little bit of an adjustment, but I felt very prepared.
In my opinion, I think choosing the big school with the most resources is the best option if private school is off the table (I know he lives in Idaho, but I'd put my school up against just about any private school in MS as far as academic quality).
Ugh, goat, that's what I mean by culture. That is and always will be more important than resources. We actually DO embrace public education. In fact, it's pretty much a pre-requisite for resources. If the community cares about its schools, that makes all the difference in the world. If it doesn't care, no amount of outside resources is going to change things much. And yes, that was patting this region on the back a bit. It's not all roses here though.
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The consolidation and just sheer growth of the 7A schools (which made them 7A in the first place) pretty much assures this will be the case, at least as long as those areas remain viable.
I graduated from a 4A school with considerable resources, but not great. When I got to State 25 years ago, I could definitely tell the difference in preparation/study habits, etc. between me and the folks who went to JA or Prep. Not so much the 5A schools at the time. But today, I could certainly see where those top 7As could have closed the gap.
We all know exactly what you mean. The reason everyone is arguing with here is two-fold - you have blinders on, and you think small MS public schools in NE MS can produce like the big, good ones in Desoto/Madison/Coast.
What exactly do you mean by that first sentence? Spell it out.
. I'm not saying that small schools have all the advantages of good, larger schools. That would be absurd. What I am saying is that a small school not is automatically a bad school because it's a small one. You can have a great school that produces kids that are ready for college, even if it is a huge adjustment for them, that doesn't have all the bells and whistles. Y'all will never convince me otherwise because I lived it myself, and I still see it all the time. Your blinders are as bad as mine. Even at the big schools the culture toward education means more than anything. Big can be just as bad as a bad small.
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