No reported causalities. Several vehicles down in Frick part including a Bus.
Schools were delayed cause of snow thankfully.
Schools were delayed cause of snow thankfully.
OT: Bridge collapse in Pittsburgh
- Thread starter Karl_Racki
- Start date
Live updates: Pittsburgh bridge collapses under heavy snow in Frick Park
A snow-covered bridge in Pittsburgh collapsed Friday morning, officials said. Follow here for the latest news.
Coincidentally, Biden will be in Pittsburgh today to discuss infrastructure.
Ummm, not to make light of this and it looks like there were no fatalities, but the sensationalism of this head line is ********. Looking at the picture, the bridge looks like it had a dusting of snow on it. Maybe I interpret heavy snow like 30" or more. The media just continues to be a shiite show.
It doesn't say it in the link, but apparently the bridge was inspected in September 2021, because, of course it was. Rated "poor", the lowest rating.
www.google.com
Pittsburgh bridge collapse: Looking at inspection reports
The bridge on Forbes Avenue over Fern Hollow Creek near Frick Park collapsed in Pittsburgh.
www.google.com
It doesn't say it in the link, but apparently the bridge was inspected in September 2021, because, of course it was. Rated "poor", the lowest rating.
Pittsburgh bridge collapse: Looking at inspection reports
The bridge on Forbes Avenue over Fern Hollow Creek near Frick Park collapsed in Pittsburgh.
So a “poor” rating isn’t enough to shut it down?
It's interesting how the eastern most section (on the left of the photo) managed to slide so far down the hill to be under the section next to it. I'm not a civil engineer but it seems that section must have fallen first and started the chain reaction. And the bus was only another couple seconds from being off the bridge.
There's over 3300 bridges in Pennsylvania that are rated poor condition. That's second in the nation. Pennsylvania has one of the highest fuel taxes in the US that is only to be spent on infrastructure yet the roads are some of the worst in the county. I'm not going to get into where the money goes but it's not infrastructure. Also, check out where the Turnpike money ends up.
Shame that Sandy was not in charge..she would have this!Someone laughs at infrastructure.
According to the bridge description it is a three span steel rigid frame superstructure (moment framed) last inspected in 2017?It doesn't say it in the link, but apparently the bridge was inspected in September 2021, because, of course it was. Rated "poor", the lowest rating.
Pittsburgh bridge collapse: Looking at inspection reports
The bridge on Forbes Avenue over Fern Hollow Creek near Frick Park collapsed in Pittsburgh.
Report indicates the foundations were satisfactory, subjected to scour conditions.
I don’t believe the foundations are anchored in a creek where substructure has scour problems. ??? I thought the bridge spawned a trail!
Could someone familiar with this area enlighten us if the bridge is actually anchored in a creek. Thanh you.
One would think that foundation failure occurred on the steep slope or the steel had to be extremely deteriorated at the rigid frame (moment) connections where the vertical frame connected to the horizontal frame
Bridge Hunter
bridgehunter.com
Inspection link:
BridgeReports.com | FORBES AVENUE over 9 MILE RUN & FERN HOLLOW, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania
Frame bridge carrying FORBES AVENUE over 9 MILE RUN & FERN HOLLOW in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania
bridgereports.com
Supposedly the last inspection was September 2021 but this post was from 2018.According to the bridge description it is a three span steel rigid frame superstructure (moment framed) last inspected in 2017?
Report indicates the foundations were satisfactory, subjected to scour conditions.
I don’t believe the foundations are anchored in a creek where substructure has scour problems. ??? I thought the bridge spawned a trail!
Could someone familiar with this area enlighten us if the bridge is actually anchored in a creek. Thanh you.
One would think that foundation failure occurred on the steep slope or the steel had to be extremely deteriorated at the rigid frame (moment) connections where the vertical frame connected to the horizontal frame
Bridge Hunter
Inspection link:
BridgeReports.com | FORBES AVENUE over 9 MILE RUN & FERN HOLLOW, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania
Frame bridge carrying FORBES AVENUE over 9 MILE RUN & FERN HOLLOW in Allegheny County, Pennsylvaniabridgereports.com
It's scary as hell. Almost every time I'm in the car, I'm using that bridge. I've also been directly underneath it many times as there's a great hiking trail & dog park right below it. Just miraculous that no one was fatally or (per reports I've seen so far) critically injured
It's a selfish interest for me at a time like this, but my traffic will be a nightmare for the foreseeable future.
Supposedly the last inspection was September 2021 but this post was from 2018.
The fact that traffic was allowed to transit that bridge is scary. I drove daily over the worst rated bridge in PA, from Cementon to Northampton. I thought that was ugly underneath. This picture makes that look good.
Used the "google guy" to view under the bridge for structure concept, not it's condition. The steel frame foundations appear distant from the creek.
maps.app.goo.gl
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Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
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It's a random Tweet so it might not even be the same bridge but point taken. Also, there's a chance it was since repaired with the Tweet being from 2018.
Step,Used the "google guy" to view under the bridge for structure concept, not it's condition. The steel frame foundations appear distant from the creek.
Google Maps
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
In Penna, who actually conducts bridge inspections? PennDot engineers or outsourced 3rd parties?
I believe whoever "owns" the bridge is responsible for inspection.
Last July the Turnpike made its last payment as obligated by Act 44 of 2007. Maybe now they can use toll money to actually improve the Turnpike. It amazes me how so many people want excellent roads and bridges but then complain when money is spent to try to keep them that way. The Pittsburgh bridge was rusted and classified as "poor" after an inspection, if the previous post is accurate. Did they think the bridge would fix itself??
To go OT, I was one of the few people who live near I-80 who thought the road should have been tolled years ago in conjunction with Act 44. Most vehicles are through traffic which beat the crap out of the road. Make them pay for it and save the commonwealth $200+ million per year, if not much more.
Penn Dot will hire a bridge inspection firm to conduct inspections of larger bridges. Simple or double span are probably conducted by the DOT
Correct, but the owner will contract the conditions assessment of the structure.
According to the inspection report,
Owner:City or Municipal Highway Agency [04]Year built:1970Historic significance:Bridge is not eligible for the National Register of Historic Places [5]Design load:MS 18 / HS 20 [5]Number of main spans:3Main spans material:Steel continuous [4]Main spans design:Frame [07]Deck type:Concrete Cast-in-Place [1]Wearing surface:Bituminous [6]
The problem is that money that should be used for roads and bridges is often spent elsewhere.
If the tolls would go 100% towards roads and bridges then we could think about that. Here's the issue. The money ends up elsewhere and the roads still suck. It's just like the Casino tax money that was promised to reduce property taxes. You're a sucker to think the roads will get better if you toll them. Both parties should be ashamed of this crap but neither care.
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"Rep. Mike Carroll, D-Luzerne, the ranking Democrat on the House Transportation Committee, told a House hearing last month that the sprawling expanse of Pennsylvania's highways and state roads has not kept lawmakers from peeling off almost half of the gas tax revenue for other purposes.
That includes 12 cents a gallon to the state police budget, 8 cents a gallon to local governments, 3 cents a gallon to the Mon-Fayette Expressway's Southern Beltway in southwestern Pennsylvania and 3 cents a gallon to the Department of Agriculture and other state agencies.
“Nearly half of the gasoline tax that we collect does not go to PennDOT's responsibility with respect to roads and bridges," Carroll said."
Wolf Wants to Phase Out Gas Tax, Find Other Funding for Pennsylvania Highways
In a deepening stalemate over financing highways and public transit, Gov. Tom Wolf wants to phase out Pennsylvania’s gasoline tax and is appointing a commission to recommend alternative ways to pay for the state’s needs
www.nbcphiladelphia.com
YEP fair,
The great INFRASTRUCTURE BILL probably has much " pork" attached, reducing the purpose of the money. The initial f'n bill had much more allocated for building the infracture to service electric transportation than spending on highways & bridges!
So it wasn't a Penn DOT bridge, correct Step? I'm aware that a city, municipality, county etc. can own a bridge even if it's approach and egress are a state owned road.
PJam, not forget SEPTA, airports and local municipalities as orphan DOT subsidizes.
PennDOT oversees programs and policies affecting highways, urban and rural public transportation, airports, railroads, ports, and waterways. More than three-quarters of PennDOT's annual budget is invested in Pennsylvania's approximately 120,000 miles of state and local highways and 32,000 state and local bridges.
"SEPTA is hemorrhaging money and riders thanks to the coronavirus pandemic — and now, it also faces an imminent shortfall in state transit funding that could delay critical infrastructure projects like station renovations or new vehicle purchases.
Every year, the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission provides the Pa. Department of Transportation with a $450 million cash infusion to support transit. Philadelphia’s public transportation agency is the largest single beneficiary, receiving $178 million of its $640 million capital budget through these payments, made in quarterly installments."
Link:
Fule funds Statewide Allocation Reports2021 (PDF)
Don't know PJam, if it's a state road, I don't understand why another municipality would take on the burden of maintenance of this particular bridge.
EDIT
According to the Pitt- Gazet:
"The bridge was owned by the city of Pittsburgh. It was a 497-foot bridge with a three-span steel rigid frame and carried some 14,000 vehicles a day.
(IF the bridge WAS owned by the city, who owns it now???)
The bridge was built in the early 1970s by New Castle-based Conn Construction Co. It replaced a previous bridge that had been there since 1901.
The American Society of Civil Engineers awarded a prize to the bridge in 1974, mentioning that its sloping piers gave the structure a "sense of logic and beauty."
The National Transportation Safety Board announced late Friday morning that it is sending a go-team to the scene. The team, headed by NTSB Chairwoman Jennifer Homendy, was expected to arrive Friday afternoon."
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I've seen instances in NEPA where a city or municipality turns over ownership of a road to the State with the condition that the state doesn't take ownership of the bridges on that road. I'm just wondering if that's what happened here. I'm aware that Pittsburgh has the most bridges of any city in the WORLD.
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Like bike lanes and bike trails in Pittsburgh to mollify the environmental wackos. I'm sure the failed bridge could have been repaired for a small fraction of what has been recently spent on useless bike lanes and trails in Pittsburgh.
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Don't know Pearl,
Never been in on the political inside of these agreements.
Gotta leave now, time for my weekly bath.
Perfect example of great advance staff work....Live updates: Pittsburgh bridge collapses under heavy snow in Frick Park
A snow-covered bridge in Pittsburgh collapsed Friday morning, officials said. Follow here for the latest news.www.cnn.com
Coincidentally, Biden will be in Pittsburgh today to discuss infrastructure.
Useless bike lanes? Seriously? I am not an environmental wacko and rarely bike, but I applaud Pittsburgh's biking efforts. Right now a bit over 2.5% of Pittsburgh commuters bike to work (8th highest in the nation). The result is less pollution, less noise, faster vehicle commute times, less road and bridge degradation (saving tax dollars), and a better quality of life. Pittsburgh has grown into a premier technology hub and many of those working in high tech industries prefer biking to work. In surveys of tech workers who have moved here from other cities, bike lanes were cited as one of Pittsburgh's many benefits.
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Not when you want to use funds that could repair it on windmills and unicorns
I never claimed roads would get better if they were changed to being tolled. I wrote it would save the state money. If the condition of I-80 stayed exactly the same but the state paid several million dollars less to do it, that would be a good thing. And maybe the Turnpike, which is already tolled, will take the money formerly used for Act 44 and spend it to make improvements. Call a sucker for being hopeful. I don't care.
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That wasn't a personal shot at you. Empty promises will make a man pissy about this. There could have been a lot of lives lost today because of willing negligence.
I live about 10 miles outside Pittsburgh and drive there a lot. I rarely see any bikes using the bike lanes. Most of the bike lanes were created by eliminating lanes for cars. So the usual scenario is that I'm sitting in bumper to bumper traffic beside an unused bike lane. The Pittsburgh landscape (hills, rivers) isn't conducive for bicycles. I don't know where you get your figures (8th highest bike commuters in the nation) but I find that hard to believe based on my observations.
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