OT: global stability seems to be wobbling a bit

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johnson86-1

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Russia seems to be upping the stakes recently with reports of North Korean troops now on Russian soil fighting Ukraine and this headline I saw this morning: Putin Ally Calls for Destruction of America's Critical Infrastructure

None of this seems good for global stability. Thoughts?
It's a TV host saying what he thinks Putin should do if the US issues Russia an ultimatum. We're not giving Russia any ultimatum and if we did, the TV host would only know about it if Putin decided he wanted to make it public. There's certainly been instability (at least in areas we care about; there's always conflict that isn't on American's radar), but I think it's probably at it's peak right now. Even with the Biden administration, Iran seems to have pushed as far as it can go. A Trump administration probably wouldn't have pushed to protect Iran's nuclear assets from Israel, but if Iran is steadily deescalating between now and Trump's inauguration (which is presumably what they will do; they've already been trying to save face at home without antagonizing Israel too much), I don't know that the Trump administration is going to greenlight anything that would risk reescalating.

Not sure what the end game is in Russia/Ukraine. It wasn't logical for Putin to invade to begin with and how it's resolved is probably going to strongly depend on Putin's position domestically and what he can safely do. But it seems like the stalemate can go on unless and until Putin is threatened domestically.
 
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Darryl Steight

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Russia seems to be upping the stakes recently with reports of North Korean troops now on Russian soil fighting Ukraine and this headline I saw this morning: Putin Ally Calls for Destruction of America's Critical Infrastructure

None of this seems good for global stability. Thoughts?
My thought is that this was expected. Several foreign actors have been officially put on notice and are under some pressure now to make decisions and move quickly - buckle up, because we will probably see a lot of action in the next 70 days.
 

bulldognation

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This is an old article - published right after the war broke - but I think it explains an awful lot beyond just 'Putin bad' as far as reasons Ukraine is in the position it's in. The US (both Rs and Ds) using Ukraine as a pawn in the region coupled with Ukraine playing the willful participant in the sponsored shenanigans probably did more to invite this environment than anything Putin did.

 

Faustdog

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This is an old article - published right after the war broke - but I think it explains an awful lot beyond just 'Putin bad' as far as reasons Ukraine is in the position it's in. The US (both Rs and Ds) using Ukraine as a pawn in the region coupled with Ukraine playing the willful participant in the sponsored shenanigans probably did more to invite this environment than anything Putin did.


I love the "Putin isn't at fault for trying to literally absorb another independent nation through a brutal war of attrition" argument. They were asking for it.

Also, if you are familiar with what Putin says through state media at all, his ultimate goal is to reconstitute the entire Soviet bloc. Ukraine is only his first step. So yeah, better to head that off sooner than later.

It's like we've lost any sense of history. Putin hasn't though. Reagan is rolling in his grave.
 

horshack.sixpack

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Are u scared that orange man might achieve peace thru strength?
Is your whole life about who is in office? I can’t imagine how you carry enough outrage to constantly couch everything in those terms. You keep on fighting the good fight. My only current orange man concern is that his dumbass gets his team to execute the Ethics agreement that by law was due on 10/1, so they can begin to get briefed on things.

The only other time this was late was when Bush and Gore were fighting over Florida chads and it wasn’t clear who was transitioning in. Some intelligence people believe that gap in transition contributed to the botched 9/11 intelligence that allowed the attacks to happen.
 

thatsbaseball

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Except the Russian media is state controlled. North Korea with boots on the ground was surprising to me
LOL and Trump doesn't have control over Hannity ? And North Korea has boots on the ground because the Russian bear told them to "put some 17ing boots on the ground". It's all good.
 
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Anon1717806835

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Is your whole life about who is in office? I can’t imagine how you carry enough outrage to constantly couch everything in those terms. You keep on fighting the good fight. My only current orange man concern is that his dumbass gets his team to execute the Ethics agreement that by law was due on 10/1, so they can begin to get briefed on things.

The only other time this was late was when Bush and Gore were fighting over Florida chads and it wasn’t clear who was transitioning in. Some intelligence people believe that gap in transition contributed to the botched 9/11 intelligence that allowed the attacks to happen.
Does it really matter? He never gave a **** about his intelligence briefings the first go round. I see no reason to think that will change. ETA - If we can keep the info from being stored in a closet at Mar-A-Lago or ending up for sale on eBay, we will be shooting par.
 

horshack.sixpack

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LOL and Trump doesn't have control over Hannity ? And North Korea has boots on the ground because the Russian bear told them to "put some 17ing boots on the ground". It's all good.
Correct. Let me clarify. It is concerning that, for whatever reason, North Korea has actual skin in the game. It is one thing to know that Russia/N. Korea/China/Iran are allied, at least in their hate for America. It is another thing altogether that they actually sacrifice their own humans to fight in each other's wars. I've not seen that before (perhaps I'm sheltered). It seems like an escalation. It seems like it might matter no matter who the 17 is in office.
 

L4Dawg

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Are u scared that orange man might achieve peace thru strength?
I hope he can, but it's a very different threat environment than it was 4 years ago. None of our last few Presidents, including Trump, have done much to build up our military. They have all presided over a gradual slipping away of our military hardware, force level, and military industrial base. Those chickens are coming home to roost now.
 

horshack.sixpack

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I love the "Putin isn't at fault for trying to literally absorb another independent nation through a brutal war of attrition" argument. They were asking for it.

Also, if you are familiar with what Putin says through state media at all, his ultimate goal is to reconstitute the entire Soviet bloc. Ukraine is only his first step. So yeah, better to head that off sooner than later.

It's like we've lost any sense of history. Putin hasn't though. Reagan is rolling in his grave.
He for sure wants to get the band back together. That, alone, is reason enough to do whatever we can to support that not happening. Tough position that I don't envy. We seem to have a strong isolationist opinion in much of the country, but we are in a global economy in a world that we must participate in. Walking the line between clear policy that is good for America without falling into policy that is so nationalistic and isolationist that we severely damage America is not going to be easy.
 
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L4Dawg

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He for sure wants to get the band back together. That, alone, is reason enough to do whatever we can to support that not happening. Tough position that I don't envy. We seem to have a strong isolationist opinion in much of the country, but we are in a global economy in a world that we must participate in. Walking the line between clear policy that is good for America without falling into policy that is so nationalistic and isolationist that we severely damage America is not going to be easy.
As a lifelong sidewalk history student, the now is really reminding me of the 1930s.
 

johnson86-1

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Correct. Let me clarify. It is concerning that, for whatever reason, North Korea has actual skin in the game. It is one thing to know that Russia/N. Korea/China/Iran are allied, at least in their hate for America. It is another thing altogether that they actually sacrifice their own humans to fight in each other's wars. I've not seen that before (perhaps I'm sheltered). It seems like an escalation. It seems like it might matter no matter who the 17 is in office.
I'm kind of curious as to whether this is anything other than Russia having money but needing warm bodies and North Korea having warm bodies but needing money.

I'm not sure Kim Jong Un has really decided that Russia winning Ukrain is strategically important to Russia or that countering the West is strategically important enough to spend blood on.
 

Leeshouldveflanked

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This is an unbiased, apolitical question. Who is leading our country right now?
Obama Reaction GIF
Politics Reaction GIF
 

mstateglfr

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So many narratives make it difficult to keep track of what the current talking point is.


- We shouldnt get involved in Ukraine because the country is corrupt.
- We shouldnt get involved in Ukraine because they should deal with their own issue.
- We shouldnt commit funding to help Ukraine because it should be spent in the US...even though an overwhelming % of that committed funding stays in the US and pays US employers to employ US workers to make US products.
- Europe should pay for everything since they are more directly impacted...even though an overwhelming % of the US committed funding stays in the US and pays US employers to employ US workers to make US products.
- Biden hasnt done enough to end the war, even though we shouldnt be involved.
- Biden hasnt done enough to end the war and should stop sending money...even though an overwhelming % of that committed funding stays in the US and pays US employers to employ US workers to make US products.
- Trump said he will stop the war before he takes office...even though the US should stay out of the war.



I guess the current narrative is that the US should be involved in trying to help Ukraine defend itself and the US should try to end the war.
Regardless, I genuinely hope the Russian invasion ends and a withdrawl from Ukraine takes place soon. If Trump can get that to happen, cool. Itll be interesting to see what/how that happens and what is given up(political capitol, economic leverage, etc). But hell yes I hope Russia withdraws soon.
 
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CochiseCowbell

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I have no more info than any of the rest of you, but I read or heard somewhere that Russia's bleeding military age soldiers, literally and the the North Korean troops would be filling in on the back end, not being sent directly to the front line. Think of guards on bases, logistical bodies to carry out duties, etc.
 

L4Dawg

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So many narratives make it difficult to keep track of what the current talking point is.


- We shouldnt get involved in Ukraine because the country is corrupt.
- We shouldnt get involved in Ukraine because they should deal with their own issue.
- We shouldnt commit funding to help Ukraine because it should be spent in the US...even though an overwhelming % of that committed funding stays in the US and pays US employers to employ US workers to make US products.
- Europe should pay for everything since they are more directly impacted...even though an overwhelming % of the US committed funding stays in the US and pays US employers to employ US workers to make US products.
- Biden hasnt done enough to end the war, even though we shouldnt be involved.
- Biden hasnt done enough to end the war and should stop sending money...even though an overwhelming % of that committed funding stays in the US and pays US employers to employ US workers to make US products.
- Trump said he will stop the war before he takes office...even though the US should stay out of the war.



I guess the current narrative is that the US should be involved in trying to help Ukraine defend itself and the US should try to end the war.
Regardless, I genuinely hope the Russian invasion ends and a withdrawl from Ukraine takes place soon. If Trump can get that to happen, cool. Itll be interesting to see what/how that happens and what is given up(political capitol, economic leverage, etc). But hell yes I hope Russia withdraws soon.
Ukraine is Czechoslovakia that decided to fight back.
 

She Mate Me

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As a lifelong sidewalk history student, the now is really reminding me of the 1930s.

Except the now has nuclear weapons. That should matter in keeping the now more peaceful, because if we start down the road of late 30's and 40's, there may not be future nows for homo sapiens.
 

She Mate Me

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So many narratives make it difficult to keep track of what the current talking point is.


- We shouldnt get involved in Ukraine because the country is corrupt.
- We shouldnt get involved in Ukraine because they should deal with their own issue.
- We shouldnt commit funding to help Ukraine because it should be spent in the US...even though an overwhelming % of that committed funding stays in the US and pays US employers to employ US workers to make US products.
- Europe should pay for everything since they are more directly impacted...even though an overwhelming % of the US committed funding stays in the US and pays US employers to employ US workers to make US products.
- Biden hasnt done enough to end the war, even though we shouldnt be involved.
- Biden hasnt done enough to end the war and should stop sending money...even though an overwhelming % of that committed funding stays in the US and pays US employers to employ US workers to make US products.
- Trump said he will stop the war before he takes office...even though the US should stay out of the war.



I guess the current narrative is that the US should be involved in trying to help Ukraine defend itself and the US should try to end the war.
Regardless, I genuinely hope the Russian invasion ends and a withdrawl from Ukraine takes place soon. If Trump can get that to happen, cool. Itll be interesting to see what/how that happens and what is given up(political capitol, economic leverage, etc). But hell yes I hope Russia withdraws soon.

Ya know, my first thought when I entered this thread wasn't "I need to get my 25 points and 500 words of thought on the subject down right now before lunch."

We're just different that way I guess...
 

GloryDawg

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Ever heard of milorganite???...


I suspect the Korean version is much "fresher", to be fair.
When I was in S. Korea they and the North used human ****. That's probably change. I was more joking than anything else.
 

She Mate Me

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When I was in S. Korea they and the North used human ****. That's probably change. I was more joking than anything else.

I was kinda kidding, but Milorganite most definitely starts with some level of human ****. It's derived from the Milwaukee waste water treatment system.

Before we had the capability to large scale mine our fertilizer inputs I suspect using our own **** to help grow things wasn't uncommon.
 
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