OT: house bill on EV car dealerships

[ronpolk]

Not trying to start a debate on the practicality of EV vehicles. Just trying to get someone to explain to the me the thought process behind the bill that passed in the house (yesterday I believe HB 401).

If I’m understanding it correctly, it essentially bans EV manufacturers from selling directly to consumer in the state of MS. The Tesla dealership would be grandfathered in. Can anyone explain why this bill is needed? Are there not several examples of products where the manufacturer sells directly to the consumer.

 

[8dog]

Wild guess but the car dealer lobbyist just did a really good job.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I don't know anything about this one but it damn sure smells Republican. Got to get the local dealerships a cut.

 

[ronpolk]

Wild guess but the car dealer lobbyist just did a really good job.

That’s what I was thinking too but I was hoping there was some other practical reason that maybe I didn’t understand

 

[BigDogFan]

Maybe the state is going to get in the EV business and setup a warehouse for them and distribute like they do liquor. That way they can make some brother in law the manager of the distribution warehouse and he can hire a bunch of his buddies to help run the place. We know how well the state runs that system!

 

[johnson86-1]

Not trying to start a debate on the practicality of EV vehicles. Just trying to get someone to explain to the me the thought process behind the bill that passed in the house (yesterday I believe HB 401).

If I’m understanding it correctly, it essentially bans EV manufacturers from selling directly to consumer in the state of MS. The Tesla dealership would be grandfathered in. Can anyone explain why this bill is needed? Are there not several examples of products where the manufacturer sells directly to the consumer.

Most states already have a bill banning manufacturer's from selling cars directly within the state. That's why Tesla has "show rooms" where you can't actually buy a car in a lot of states.

I'm guessing the way Mississippi's law was written applied it to ICE cars, (possibly because of not wanting to include things like golf carts before?) and this is just putting them on equal footing with ICE car manufacturers.

But traditionally, car dealers are extremely strong, in just about any state you go to, and they are generally strong across both parties because their existence largely depends on maintaining a legislative moat around the franchise laws.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Nobody beats a Cannon deal, Nobody!

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Not trying to start a debate on the practicality of EV vehicles. Just trying to get someone to explain to the me the thought process behind the bill that passed in the house (yesterday I believe HB 401).

If I’m understanding it correctly, it essentially bans EV manufacturers from selling directly to consumer in the state of MS. The Tesla dealership would be grandfathered in. Can anyone explain why this bill is needed? Are there not several examples of products where the manufacturer sells directly to the consumer.

Unsure about that, but did you see where Wyoming is proposing a 3 year goal of eliminating EVs as a political jab at CA, and they state in support of their oil industry. It made me chuckle, but in a I really shouldn't find this funny kind of way.

 

[Perd Hapley]

I’m curious as to what qualifies as an EV car dealership? All the major automakers have some EV’s in their lineup.

On the surface it appears as a means to block automakers from utilizing a direct sales model on EV’s as a means of reducing the cost of entry price point for potential new EV consumers. This would make them much more competitive with ICE models and provide an avenue for automakers to scale up EV production numbers much faster. That is probably the sole reason why Tesla sells direct.

Funny, I’m old enough to remember when Republicans both in MS and nationally actually held free market capitalism in a much higher regard than they do now.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

Not trying to start a debate on the practicality of EV vehicles. Just trying to get someone to explain to the me the thought process behind the bill that passed in the house (yesterday I believe HB 401).

If I’m understanding it correctly, it essentially bans EV manufacturers from selling directly to consumer in the state of MS. The Tesla dealership would be grandfathered in. Can anyone explain why this bill is needed? Are there not several examples of products where the manufacturer sells directly to the consumer.

It's called protecting wealth for those that have it and don't need anyone horning in on their business. It's also called exploitation through our backward *** political system. For the people my butt.

And I write this as someone old enough that I will likely never have to consider actually purchasing an electric car. And doesn't want to. My current vehicle is already too 17n'electric.

 

[Guy From Gulfport]

This has dealership association/network lobby, written all over it.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Unsure about that, but did you see where Wyoming is proposing a 3 year goal of eliminating EVs as a political jab at CA, and they state in support of their oil industry. It made me chuckle, but in a I really shouldn't find this funny kind of way.

Ole Governor Dutton doing work!

 

[Johnnie Come Lately]

I don't know anything about this one but it damn sure smells Republican. Got to get the local dealerships a cut.

That can't be! Republicans are for free markets n' ****.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

That can't be! Republicans are for free markets n' ****.

Yeah, and free speech, except for books they don't like and limited government except for companies that don't say things they like, and lower taxes except that little 30% proposed federal sales tax. Spot on.***

 

[mstateglfr]

Not trying to start a debate on the practicality of EV vehicles. Just trying to get someone to explain to the me the thought process behind the bill that passed in the house (yesterday I believe HB 401).

If I’m understanding it correctly, it essentially bans EV manufacturers from selling directly to consumer in the state of MS. The Tesla dealership would be grandfathered in. Can anyone explain why this bill is needed? Are there not several examples of products where the manufacturer sells directly to the consumer.

This is how my state is- only dealerships can sell cars.
We now have a Tesla location in our metro, but they can only service vehicles and lease them. They cant sell vehicles. Why leasing is allowed and selling is not? No idea what loophole was used for that.

Anyways, it is clearly due to dealerships having the power to create such a law. This isnt some guess, it isnt some conspiracy, it is a very well known reality. As it stands, vehicles make up the largest % of sales tax in the state. Dealers therefore produce the most sales tax revenue in the state. Thats a lot of power to hold.
Franchise laws can be strangling to innovation and consumer satisfaction initiatives.
Funny reality- The state's Dealer Association is also who continues to push against allowing car sales on Sundays. As a result, a day when many people have off and would have time to shop for cars is not an option. Its absurdly inconvenient. The typical excuses are- 'we need to give people time off'...well do that still and just dont have everyone work every day of the week! another excuse is 'banks couldnt verify credit'...and yet you can buy vehicles in others states on Sundays and you can purchase other large ticket items by opening a line of credit on Sundays. Somehow, other businesses and markets manage.


Reason 4,820 why dealers suck goat's balls. They should have to compete with a consumer direct model.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Is this about manufacturer owned full service dealerships located in the state selling cars or manufacturers with facilities in other states selling cars over the internet in the state ?

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Side note, I heard a radio commercial for an EV this week (Chevy, I think), and no where in the commercial was environment or saving money mentioned. It was strictly focused on the cool features of the car and the fun of driving one. I thought that was an interesting marketing shift. Maybe big tech has just mined enough data from my phone to know what is important to ma and targeted that radio add specifically at me.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Not trying to start a debate on the practicality of EV vehicles. Just trying to get someone to explain to the me the thought process behind the bill that passed in the house (yesterday I believe HB 401).

If I’m understanding it correctly, it essentially bans EV manufacturers from selling directly to consumer in the state of MS. The Tesla dealership would be grandfathered in. Can anyone explain why this bill is needed? Are there not several examples of products where the manufacturer sells directly to the consumer.

Not sure if I've posted this before, but this guy is a good follow: https://twitter.com/GuyDealership

 

[mstateglfr]

Why would Tesla get a pass on this too? If the state legislature thinks the state should allow manufacturer direct sales, then they should be consistent and apply that regardless of if there are already manufacturer direct sales.

When smoking went from 18 up to 21, anyone who was 19 and already smoking wasnt grandfathered in.
When the state flag was changed, any state property already flying the old flag wasnt grandfathered in.

I could go on and on.

 

[MStateDawg]

Side note, I heard a radio commercial for an EV this week (Chevy, I think), and no where in the commercial was environment or saving money mentioned. It was strictly focused on the cool features of the car and the fun of driving one. I thought that was an interesting marketing shift. Maybe big tech has just mined enough data from my phone to know what is important to ma and targeted that radio add specifically at me.

Chevy announced a new hybrid Corvette this week, Corvette E-Ray.
It'll be the quickest production Corvette ever made. 0-60 in 2.5 seconds and 10.5 quarter mile.

 

[57stratdawg]

Wild guess but the car dealer lobbyist just did a really good job.

^^^^

Similar was happening at one point in Texas. Teslas manufactured in Austin have to be shipped out of state, and then returned, to the sold in Austin.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Why would Tesla get a pass on this too? If the state legislature thinks the state should allow manufacturer direct sales, then they should be consistent and apply that regardless of if there are already manufacturer direct sales.

When smoking went from 18 up to 21, anyone who was 19 and already smoking wasnt grandfathered in.
When the state flag was changed, any state property already flying the old flag wasnt grandfathered in.

I could go on and on.

Its not necessarily a good reason, but they largely get a pass because they don’t have any 3rd party dealerships that exist, thus they aren’t taking anything off anyone’s table from the eatablished network of dealerships in MS.

They also get a pass because this one particular dealership predated the legislation, but they won’t be able to open any new locations. So they didn’t get a full pass at all.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Chevy announced a new hybrid Corvette this week, Corvette E-Ray.
It'll be the quickest production Corvette ever made. 0-60 in 2.5 seconds and 10.5 quarter mile.

I laughed when I first saw this: https://www.borla.com/products/active-performance-sound-for-electric-vehicles/

but a Corvette with no sounds just feels wrong, maybe not as wrong as adding artificial interior exhaust noises. However, fake engine noise is already piped into F150 Ecoboost (can't speak for coyote). If you take a tuner and turn it off, the truck sounds nothing like it did. You kinda have to figure that's the case when a turbo V6 sounds more like a traditional V8 inside the truck but not outside

ETA: I just realized there is a speaker on the outside of the car too so it sounds loud on the street...

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Just put them to work in the Tesla plant, right?

I would love to have an electric car. Can't the government give everybody one since they want to ban gas cars? We spend a **** load of money anyway. Our grandkids can pay the bill. Don't worry about it; they solve all our problems!

By the way, how are we creating and disposing of all these batteries we will need?

Better yet, how are we charging them?

 

[mstateglfr]

Its not necessarily a good reason, but they largely get a pass because they don’t have any 3rd party dealerships that exist, thus they aren’t taking anything off anyone’s table from the eatablished network of dealerships in MS.

They also get a pass because this one particular dealership predated the legislation, but they won’t be able to open any new locations. So they didn’t get a full pass at all.

Understood, that just seems like weak reasoning. As you mentioned, its not necessarily a good reason.
Any new company could come in and say 'we also dont have a dealership network set up' as justification to be able to sell consumer direct.
As for Tesla not being able to open more locations, this hits back to my comment about how such a law should apply- if its so bad that a law needs to be created, then apply it evenly. When Asbestos was banned, its not like companies that were already using it were grandfathered in and allowed to keep selling/installing it. Same with the cigarettes I mentioned earlier- its not like users were grandfathered in if they were legal under the old law.

But hey- I dont expect these things to actually make sense- its politics after all. The only consistent thing in legislation is that laws will be inconsistent in wording, support, and application.

 

[Perd Hapley]

This is how my state is- only dealerships can sell cars.
We now have a Tesla location in our metro, but they can only service vehicles and lease them. They cant sell vehicles. Why leasing is allowed and selling is not? No idea what loophole was used for that.

Anyways, it is clearly due to dealerships having the power to create such a law. This isnt some guess, it isnt some conspiracy, it is a very well known reality. As it stands, vehicles make up the largest % of sales tax in the state. Dealers therefore produce the most sales tax revenue in the state. Thats a lot of power to hold.
Franchise laws can be strangling to innovation and consumer satisfaction initiatives.
Funny reality- The state's Dealer Association is also who continues to push against allowing car sales on Sundays. As a result, a day when many people have off and would have time to shop for cars is not an option. Its absurdly inconvenient. The typical excuses are- 'we need to give people time off'...well do that still and just dont have everyone work every day of the week! another excuse is 'banks couldnt verify credit'...and yet you can buy vehicles in others states on Sundays and you can purchase other large ticket items by opening a line of credit on Sundays. Somehow, other businesses and markets manage.


Reason 4,820 why dealers suck goat's balls. They should have to compete with a consumer direct model.

The fact is that we are about 7 years away from 50% of all new auto sales in the US being EV’s. 20 years away from it being 100%. Automakers will never completely cut out the dealership network as they are too valuable, and rebuilding all of the brick an mortar and shipping infrastructure that they already have in place to support their own direct model would be enormously cost prohibitive. But dealers are feeling threatened by the Tesla model, and are exerting pressure to protect themselves.

Its not out of the realm of possibility for automakers to pursue some hybrid model, where they utilize both franchise dealerships and direct sales. If they did this with even 50% of their new car sales, dealers would start closing up shop left and right. So its going to be an interesting dynamic to follow over the next 5-10 years.

 

[mstateglfr]

Not trying to start a debate on the practicality of EV vehicles....

then you.

Just put them to work in the Tesla plant, right?

I would love to have an electric car. Can't the government give everybody one since they want to ban gas cars? We spend a **** load of money anyway. Our grandkids can pay the bill. Don't worry about it; they solve all our problems!

By the way, how are we creating and disposing of all these batteries we will need?

Better yet, how are we charging them?

 

[johnson86-1]

The fact is that we are about 7 years away from 50% of all new auto sales in the US being EV’s. 20 years away from it being 100%. Automakers will never completely cut out the dealership network as they are too valuable, and rebuilding all of the brick an mortar and shipping infrastructure that they already have in place to support their own direct model would be enormously cost prohibitive. But dealers are feeling threatened by the Tesla model, and are exerting pressure to protect themselves.

Its not out of the realm of possibility for automakers to pursue some hybrid model, where they utilize both franchise dealerships and direct sales. If they did this with even 50% of their new car sales, dealers would start closing up shop left and right. So its going to be an interesting dynamic to follow over the next 5-10 years.

I think that is way overestimating the percentage in 7 years. Until there is a technological breakthrough, I wouldn't expect them to hit 50% at all. Going to be very limited number of households that have 2 EVs and not one EV and ICE. Even if we have a tech breakthrough in the next couple of years, that's still a massive increase in the number of EVs sold over a short period.

 

[GloryDawg]

Why would Tesla get a pass on this too? If the state legislature thinks the state should allow manufacturer direct sales, then they should be consistent and apply that regardless of if there are already manufacturer direct sales.

When smoking went from 18 up to 21, anyone who was 19 and already smoking wasnt grandfathered in.
When the state flag was changed, any state property already flying the old flag wasnt grandfathered in.

I could go on and on.

Tesla already has a dealership in Brandon with cars on lot and showroom. Rankin county is either the third or fourth largest county. A lot of pull.

 

[ronpolk]

I’m curious as to what qualifies as an EV car dealership? All the major automakers have some EV’s in their lineup.

On the surface it appears as a means to block automakers from utilizing a direct sales model on EV’s as a means of reducing the cost of entry price point for potential new EV consumers. This would make them much more competitive with ICE models and provide an avenue for automakers to scale up EV production numbers much faster. That is probably the sole reason why Tesla sells direct.

Funny, I’m old enough to remember when Republicans both in MS and nationally actually held free market capitalism in a much higher regard than they do now.

I think you’re exactly right it’s just to keep automakers from selling directly to customers. Just so happens, that only impacts certain EV manufacturers right now. I don’t believe anything about the bill is anti EV or anything like that. Sounds like most have the same thought I had, car dealerships throwing money at law makers to creat this law.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

then you.

It's called protecting wealth for those that have it and don't need anyone horning in on their business. It's also called exploitation through our backward *** political system. For the people my butt

 

[mstateglfr]

Tesla already has a dealership in Brandon with cars on lot and showroom. Rankin county is either the third or fourth largest county. A lot of pull.

Yeah, so its a political move and legislators dont actually care about protecting consumers from the claimed negatives of consumer direct auto sales. If they did care about that, they wouldnt give a pass to Tesla. They are now just creating an imbalanced economic model for auto sales. They are giving an advantage to Tesla.

As I posted- legislators will be inconsistent when given the opportunity, and since they create the opportunities, they will be inconsistent.

 

[MagnificentBastard]

Not trying to start a debate on the practicality of EV vehicles. Just trying to get someone to explain to the me the thought process behind the bill that passed in the house (yesterday I believe HB 401).

If I’m understanding it correctly, it essentially bans EV manufacturers from selling directly to consumer in the state of MS. The Tesla dealership would be grandfathered in. Can anyone explain why this bill is needed? Are there not several examples of products where the manufacturer sells directly to the consumer.

During and after the pandemic because there was a shortage of new vehicles, dealerships were/are selling for above sticker price. The manufacturers told them to stop but they didn't really have a legal means to restrict the pricing. The manufacturer's plan is to sell EVs at a set price online. No haggling on the price. This cuts out the dealerships. The dealerships can opt into selling EVs, but they have to build a separate facility just for EVs and they have to agree to the no haggle pricing. The dealership lobby has been getting state legislators to pass bills like this so as not to cut out the dealerships and to let them sell EVs without the new terms and facilities set by the manufacturers. Tesla is exempt because they have basically been using the model that manufacturers want to use and don't already have an established dealer network.

I'm not defending the bill. This is just my understanding of how it came about. The government should probably stay out of personal transactions as much as possible. Especially when it so favors one side over the other side. It's usually a recipe for inefficiency.

 

[Perd Hapley]

I think that is way overestimating the percentage in 7 years. Until there is a technological breakthrough, I wouldn't expect them to hit 50% at all. Going to be very limited number of households that have 2 EVs and not one EV and ICE. Even if we have a tech breakthrough in the next couple of years, that's still a massive increase in the number of EVs sold over a short period.

They are already at 20% in Europe. Note that it will be 50% in the US on average, not necessarily in every location. Will be more like 60-70% in CA and the Northeast, where it will be closer to 20-25% in the more rural areas like MS. The numbers I’m saying aren’t made up, they are projections from the industry that all automakers are utilizing for long term capital investment over the next decade.

The tech breakthroughs also have happened and will continue to happen. As recently as 2010, it cost about $40,000 to produce a 65kWh battery, and in 2022 that coat was down to about $5000. About a 90% decrease. Regulation in the global market is incentivizing more EV production as quickly as possible. The automakers want it, and so do consumers.

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

 

[Called3rdstrikedawg]

So much for this not turning Political.

speaking of Free Speech, I’ll be glad when the owners/mods on this site BAN political topics. We cannot be a United Fan Base with such diverse political beliefs!

 

[MSUDAWGFAN]

When Asbestos was banned, its not like companies that were already using it were grandfathered in and allowed to keep selling/installing it.

The reason between what you just listed here and Tesla is that they already have money sunk into this. Yes, there are no companies that sell and install asbestos containing insulation, but there sure are still buildings that have it. The government can't make you spend money to remove all of the asbestos from your house or workplace. They might be able to fine you (if it's your workplace) but that would only be if someone gets ill due to it.

 

[MSUDAWGFAN]

Not trying to start a debate on the practicality of EV vehicles. Just trying to get someone to explain to the me the thought process behind the bill that passed in the house (yesterday I believe HB 401).

If I’m understanding it correctly, it essentially bans EV manufacturers from selling directly to consumer in the state of MS. The Tesla dealership would be grandfathered in. Can anyone explain why this bill is needed? Are there not several examples of products where the manufacturer sells directly to the consumer.

Have you seen the show "Adam ruins Everything" on car dealerships. It's a complete racket. The dealerships get what they want because they generate so much tax revenue. One of the things dealerships want is no competition from other similar dealerships. You can't set up a dealership within 50 miles of a current dealership of the same brand. It's why some dealerships are 5 or 10 miles from a city but in the middle of nowhere.

The term "Jaywalker" used to be a racist derogatory term. The auto industry has so much power that it was able to use that term for someone walking across the road to disrupt traffic but not in a crosswalk.

 

[Jacknut]

I don't know how long Tesla's been operating in the state, but I imagine if you tried to shut them down now, you'd have a whopper of a lawsuit which would drag on for years. Probably easier to give them an exception and move on.

 

[Hot Rock]

I bought a Hyundai Ioniq 5. Commuter car 60 miles a day and once a month travel to Decatur. Best car I have ever owned and it’s not close.
My light bill went up $25-30 a month where I was spending $150-200 a month in fuel.

I would not have it if it were my only option. I still have my truck and wife’s SUV because the charging station infrastructure is not there, especially in Mississippi but I manage it pretty well.
I can recharge in 15 minutes at level 3 chargers or in a few hours at a lvl 2 charger, many hotels have those.
Every camp sight has a 240 volt plug or a dryer plug in every home plus 12 volts are everywhere so you are never that far away. Unless you really want it to work, it won’t work for you until the infrastructure of charging is in place. It’s cheaper to drive on a daily basis and makes up for extra initial cost in about 75-80,000 miles of driving depending on gas prices etc.