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OT Incredible explanation of "Implosion" in BBC Titan sub article. (Maths involved)

LionJim

LionJim

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rap5088 said:
Was the implosion the reason why they lost contact with the vessel?

Or did they lose contact then some time later the vessel imploded?
Click to expand...
It’s my take that a lot of our current understanding of what happen is due to what James Cameron has said about the situation. Cameron has said that the loss of contact was due to the implosion, and that the support crew knew exactly what had happened. I guess the truth will eventually come out but in the meantime Cameron seems to be a reliable narrator.
 
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step.eng69

step.eng69

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PSUAVLNC said:
I work in maritime safety but nothing subsurface. While we’re all impressed with “pressure”. I’ve heard 6000 psi at that depth? Not sure. It’s the “force” that is really impressive.

Pressure x Area = Force

P X A = F

So it is 6000 psi that’s acting on every sq inch of the outside surface of the vessel.

That’s why we can’t build a square submarine. You have to distribute the force over the entire area.

Those videos don’t even come close, that was 14.7 psi acting on the surface area of the pressure vessel in those videos.

I’m not sure our minds can conceive of an implosion at that depth.
Click to expand...
To put the above post in perspective.......

Allowable foundation soil pressures I work with vary between 1,500 lbs per sq ft to around 4,000 lbs per sq ft.

At this depth, The lbs per sq foot pressure on the hull would be approx. 800,000+ psf., that's one heck of a load
 
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step.eng69

step.eng69

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PSUAVLNC said:
That’s why we can’t build a square submarine. You have to distribute the force over the entire area.
Click to expand...
How do square fish swim anyway?

1687802040533.png

"Have you ever wondered why square fish can't swim? Do they float over here, and float over there because they are square? No matter the reason-"where there's a will-there's a way!" This storybook, "Why Can't A Square Fish Swim", discusses the reasons swimming is a struggle for little square fish and offers plenty of fun suggestions to help them get around from motor boats to balloons. Whatever the challenge for the square fish there has to be a way!"
 
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BobPSU92

BobPSU92

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step.eng69 said:
How do square fish swim anyway?

View attachment 358080

"Have you ever wondered why square fish can't swim? Do they float over here, and float over there because they are square? No matter the reason-"where there's a will-there's a way!" This storybook, "Why Can't A Square Fish Swim", discusses the reasons swimming is a struggle for little square fish and offers plenty of fun suggestions to help them get around from motor boats to balloons. Whatever the challenge for the square fish there has to be a way!"
Click to expand...

 
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Woodpecker

Woodpecker

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step.eng69 said:
How do square fish swim anyway?

View attachment 358080

"Have you ever wondered why square fish can't swim? Do they float over here, and float over there because they are square? No matter the reason-"where there's a will-there's a way!" This storybook, "Why Can't A Square Fish Swim", discusses the reasons swimming is a struggle for little square fish and offers plenty of fun suggestions to help them get around from motor boats to balloons. Whatever the challenge for the square fish there has to be a way!"
Click to expand...
But they MUST exist ...
 
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PSUSignore

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rap5088 said:
Was the implosion the reason why they lost contact with the vessel?

Or did they lose contact then some time later the vessel imploded?
Click to expand...
Apparently there is some acoustic data indicating an anomaly consistent with an implosion event, occurring right about the same time as them losing comms. I'd imagine some will still question that, but it likely means the implosion happened on the first day during the initial descent and all of the searching for days afterwards was for naught.

James Cameron has some good interviews on this accident that are worth a listen. He's pretty knowledgeable given all of his Titanic research and he personally has taken a submersible to near record depths. He stated that he confided in friends on day one that he was told of the acoustic data and knew an implosion was likely. He questioned some of the design choices in the sub such as the use of carbon fiber which isn't a solid material and would have been more prone to failure due to repeated pressure cycling stress after multiple dives, vs. the more substantial hull on the sub he personally used.
 
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step.eng69

step.eng69

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In This video the implosion of the sphere was pressurized to equate a depth of seawater at 7,300 ft (3,300 psi)
The Titan experienced 6,000 psi pressure at a depth of 12,500 ft.

watch the clip at 1/4 speed (right mouse click, select video speed

 
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step.eng69

step.eng69

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TheBigUglies said:
I saw this earlier today. I think with the weight of the water that deep, it would be much much worse then what is in this video. Also, is the majority of the public that dumb that the news services have to explain what an implosion is?
Click to expand...
I believe you are correct B Uggs, I would say yes to both.
I posted an article about implosion a few yrs ago. Millisecs elapse between being alive and disappearing. The greatest fear in the mind will be knowing you are helplessly descending waiting for crush depth and doomed.

Like a horror movie': Titan submersible 'plunged for a minute' before implosion, engineer says​

Story by Ciaran Bradley • 54m ago

The OceanGate Titan submersible would have been falling without control for at least 48 seconds before its implosion, according to an engineer.
Spanish submarine expert Luis Martín said the five people who died aboard Titan - Hamish Harding, Shahzada and Suleman Dawood, Stockton Rush, and Paul-Henri Nargeolet - would have descended to the ocean floor like an 'arrow'. Mr. Martín believes that the submersible did not have control for 2.953 feet before it finally imploded and that those aboard would have been aware of something catastrophically wrong for between 48 and 71 seconds.

Mr. Martín told Spanish newspaper Nius: “The submersible was descending without any incident and in a horizontal plane until it reached an altitude of about 5,577ft (1,700m). At that point, there was an electrical failure. It was left without an engine and without propulsion. That is when it lost communication with the Polar Prince.”

Mr. Martín continued: “The Titan changed position and fell like an arrow vertically because the 400 kilos of passengers that were in the porthole compromised the submarine. They all rushed and crowded on top of each other. Imagine the horror, the fear and the agony.”

“It must have been like a horror movie.”
The Titan submersible, operated by OceanGate Expeditions, was designed to explore the wreckage of the sunken SS Titanic
The Titan submersible, operated by OceanGate Expeditions, was designed to explore the wreckage of the sunken SS Titanic© OceanGate Expeditions/Handout via EYEPRESS

He continued to give a sense of what must have been physically happening to the vessel as it began to descend.

“As they fell into the depths of the ocean, the resistant hull was subjected to a sudden increase in pressure. And then there was a strong compression of the container where the tourists and pilot were.

“In that period of time, they are [realizing] everything. And in total darkness. It is difficult to get an idea of what they experienced in those moments. After those 48 seconds or one minute, the implosion occurred followed by instantaneous death.”
 

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PSUSignore

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step.eng69 said:

I believe you are correct B Uggs, I would say yes to both.
I posted an article about implosion a few yrs ago. Millisecs elapse between being alive and disappearing. The greatest fear in the mind will be knowing you are helplessly descending waiting for crush depth and doomed.

Like a horror movie': Titan submersible 'plunged for a minute' before implosion, engineer says​

Story by Ciaran Bradley • 54m ago

The OceanGate Titan submersible would have been falling without control for at least 48 seconds before its implosion, according to an engineer.
Spanish submarine expert Luis Martín said the five people who died aboard Titan - Hamish Harding, Shahzada and Suleman Dawood, Stockton Rush, and Paul-Henri Nargeolet - would have descended to the ocean floor like an 'arrow'. Mr. Martín believes that the submersible did not have control for 2.953 feet before it finally imploded and that those aboard would have been aware of something catastrophically wrong for between 48 and 71 seconds.

Mr. Martín told Spanish newspaper Nius: “The submersible was descending without any incident and in a horizontal plane until it reached an altitude of about 5,577ft (1,700m). At that point, there was an electrical failure. It was left without an engine and without propulsion. That is when it lost communication with the Polar Prince.”

Mr. Martín continued: “The Titan changed position and fell like an arrow vertically because the 400 kilos of passengers that were in the porthole compromised the submarine. They all rushed and crowded on top of each other. Imagine the horror, the fear and the agony.”

“It must have been like a horror movie.”
The Titan submersible, operated by OceanGate Expeditions, was designed to explore the wreckage of the sunken SS Titanic
The Titan submersible, operated by OceanGate Expeditions, was designed to explore the wreckage of the sunken SS Titanic© OceanGate Expeditions/Handout via EYEPRESS

He continued to give a sense of what must have been physically happening to the vessel as it began to descend.

“As they fell into the depths of the ocean, the resistant hull was subjected to a sudden increase in pressure. And then there was a strong compression of the container where the tourists and pilot were.

“In that period of time, they are [realizing] everything. And in total darkness. It is difficult to get an idea of what they experienced in those moments. After those 48 seconds or one minute, the implosion occurred followed by instantaneous death.”
Click to expand...
And he knows this how? This doesn't share a single shred of evidence to support his claims about knowing exactly what happened, which is pretty shameful for a supposed engineer.
 
manatree

manatree

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step.eng69 said:
Mr. Martín told Spanish newspaper Nius: “The submersible was descending without any incident and in a horizontal plane until it reached an altitude of about 5,577ft (1,700m). At that point, there was an electrical failure. It was left without an engine and without propulsion. That is when it lost communication with the Polar Prince.”
Click to expand...

Apparently, my previous knowledge of submarines was wrong. Very wrong.
 
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olelion

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TheBigUglies said:
I saw this earlier today. I think with the weight of the water that deep, it would be much much worse then what is in this video. Also, is the majority of the public that dumb that the news services have to explain what an implosion is?
Click to expand...
Yes
 
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