OT: Latest (July 2022) county population estimates are out

[mstateglfr]

TIL people selectively care about public funds being spent ethically.
I also learned someone apparently thinks that private schools would be like contractors so they should be able to spend public funds however they wish without auditing and no oversight.
Oh, and I learned that someone else actually thinks there is no such thing as public money. Apparently they don't believe that taxes collected and allocated to various programs and departments within a town is public money. I guess we can all just choose where our money does and doesn't go?...good luck with that theory.

This place, oh man.
Reading thru this thread, there should be 0 wonder why a population drain exists and will continue to exist.

 

[CoastTrash]

More international immigration would help.

 

[johnson86-1]

double post

 

[johnson86-1]

TIL people selectively care about public funds being spent ethically.
I also learned someone apparently thinks that private schools would be like contractors so they should be able to spend public funds however they wish without auditing and no oversight.
Oh, and I learned that someone else actually thinks there is no such thing as public money. Apparently they don't believe that taxes collected and allocated to various programs and departments within a town is public money. I guess we can all just choose where our money does and doesn't go?...good luck with that theory.

This place, oh man.
Reading thru this thread, there should be 0 wonder why a population drain exists and will continue to exist.

You should have learned that you don’t actually know what public funds are. Or even have a misunderstanding of what they are that is coherent.

 

[johnson86-1]

Public schools have long tried to limit funding for special needs students (and this was before vouchers).

I don’t think you’re disagreeing with me. The amount of funding for special needs students and vouchers are two different issues. You can provide enough funds for special needs children or not and you can do either under a system with vouchers or under a system without vouchers.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I don’t think you’re disagreeing with me. The amount of funding for special needs students and vouchers are two different issues. You can provide enough funds for special needs children or not and you can do either under a system with vouchers or under a system without vouchers.

I agree with that.

I don’t think it goes that way in real life scenarios though. I don’t know from first hand experience but friends with special needs kids have had issues with district officials.

 

[Anon1664516582]

I will tell ya one thing that has increased up there by a multiply of 100 is the damn gangs….

 

[AstroDog]

Hollywood asked Morgan Freeman....."Why, if you can live ANYWHERE in the world...would you decide to live in Mississippi?" He answered......"Because I can". Of course ole Morgan has about a 1000 acre ranch near Charleston, MS.....so I imagine that helps things a bit.

 

[johnson86-1]

I agree with that.

I don’t think it goes that way in real life scenarios though. I don’t know from first hand experience but friends with special needs kids have had issues with district officials.

I think Arizona's new school choice system provides like $7k for a typical child and up to $30k for a special needs child. I'm getting that from a secondary source so I don't know if that's correct or if it is, whether in practice the amounts special needs children qualify for really cover the amount of extra services or they tend to get short changed.

This is a wild *** guess, but I suspect the problems with district officials either arise from (1) not providing enough funding for special needs children (I think 40% comes from the federal government; not sure if the state puts up the other 60% or if the district has to eat it), or (2) not segregating the funds provided (at least on paper), so officials still just look at extra services as extra expenses that are pulling more than a "fair share" from the budget without accounting for the fact that those extra services were specifically funded, so providing them isn't really pulling anything from other students.

I will say that unfortunately, the only complaints I have heard from a friend with an older special needs student does not revolve around the services, which they are happy with, but from the schools inability to protect the child from bullying. So they have to choose between a private school that probably can't provide resources as well but can more or less guarantee a good environment, or better resources but a worse environment.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

This is a wild *** guess, but I suspect the problems with district officials either arise from (1) not providing enough funding for special needs children (I think 40% comes from the federal government; not sure if the state puts up the other 60% or if the district has to eat it), or (2) not segregating the funds provided (at least on paper), so officials still just look at extra services as extra expenses that are pulling more than a "fair share" from the budget without accounting for the fact that those extra services were specifically funded, so providing them isn't really pulling anything from other students.

I agree and I'd add (3) school systems and state departments of education not being flexible enough to provide funding in cases when there are newly enrolled/diagnosed special needs students because (4) helping special needs students and zero based budgeting are like oil and water.

 

[dudehead]

It's not about the schools. It's about the individuals' rights to send their kid and money to a good school. Let's keep MS dumb by forcing every kid to go where the district says their money goes even when the school is failing the student. It's dumb as hell. Imagine paying $50K for a car but getting assigned a scooter.

But when the law doesn't require the same of all schools, the law makers are simply cherry picking a desired result. Make all schools receiving vouchers comply with the same rules. Period. tehn you will have true competition for a students' vouchers. To do otherwise is banana republic cronyism, at its finest.

 

[mstateglfr]

You should have learned that you don’t actually know what public funds are. Or even have a misunderstanding of what they are that is coherent.

You really think I dont know what public funds are and my view of what they are isnt even coherent?
Below is a definition from Kansas University. That matches what I think public funds are.

What are public funds, if not what I mentioned earlier?

Chapter 46. Planning for Sustainability | Section 15. Acquiring Public Funding | Main Section | Community Tool Box

Learn about the nature of public funding, its advantages and disadvantages, what you need to do to obtain it, and what you need to consider once you have it.

ctb.ku.edu

Public funding, in its simplest terms, is funding that comes from the public treasury. It's the taxpayers' money, and the funding of health, human service, environmental, community development, and other public service programs is one of the ways it's spent for the common good. Public funding may come through federal, state, or local government channels, and those channels are usually different at each level.

 

[johnson86-1]

You really think I dont know what public funds are and my view of what they are isnt even coherent?
Below is a definition from Kansas University. That matches what I think public funds are.

What are public funds, if not what I mentioned earlier?

Chapter 46. Planning for Sustainability | Section 15. Acquiring Public Funding | Main Section | Community Tool Box

Learn about the nature of public funding, its advantages and disadvantages, what you need to do to obtain it, and what you need to consider once you have it.

ctb.ku.edu

So under that definition, how is money spent by a grocery store receiving SNAP public funds?

 

[johnson86-1]

But when the law doesn't require the same of all schools, the law makers are simply cherry picking a desired result. Make all schools receiving vouchers comply with the same rules. Period. tehn you will have true competition for a students' vouchers. To do otherwise is banana republic cronyism, at its finest.

Why are you more concerned about rules than whether children get a good education?

 

[Perd Hapley]

That's not how it works. Decent, working people move there, to be farther 'out'. Then the schools get better. Good in, good out. Bad in, bad out.

A school is neither good nor bad. It's totally dependent on students. If enough decent, working families decide they want cheaper and more land, or whatever, farther away from Memphis, then the schools in Tate County would get better.

“This area / town has great schools” is just a fancy way of saying the area has really high property values because its an extremely desirable place to live for reasons that go way beyond the schools. Whether its because of zoning restrictions that bring in only high end subdivisions and housing, a huge number of high paying jobs in close vicinity, or a very high density of entertainment, arts, dining, and outdoor activities in the area….you’ve got to have something that goes beyond just the schools themselves.

In Oxford’s case, it’s mainly the first and third of those options because of so many retirees flocking to the area, moving into their forever home, and spending money at the restaurants, bars, and sporting events. Oxford isn’t a huge job hub and never has been. So I would dispute that Oxford’s growth is truly “great for Mississippi”. It’s certainly not bad for Mississippi, but its really just great for Oxford. Outside of the service industry, which isn’t the economic foundation for hardly anyone long term, I don’t see how people outside the area are benefitting.

 

[dudehead]

Why are you more concerned about rules than whether children get a good education?

I'm not. I'm concerned about us wasting precious limited resources building a separate parallel education system instead of fixing the one we have, particularly since we are the poorest state. If the charter/voucher schools have an MO that makes them better at educating kids compared to the traditional public schools, then let's change the rules/laws so that traditional public schools can utilize that same MO. Why can we not do that? FYI, I have repeatedly asked this question publicly and privately and cannot get a straight satisfactory answer. I have a hunch about why but it wouldn't be helpful to bring it up.

 

[mstateglfr]

So under that definition, how is money spent by a grocery store receiving SNAP public funds?

I dont understand this question.
From what I have always understood, individuals who qualify for SNAP benefits are able to purchase select items at participating stores using their benefits instead of their own personal money.

I genuinely dont understand your question- I think it is missing words, or puctuation, or both. Not trying to be a dick, I dont know what you are asking. Maybe your question is correct and I didnt know that grocery stores spend SNAP money?...not sure how that works.

 

[HWY51dog]

I can tell you population is moving from Desoto into Tate county. If Tate County would get their infrastructure together they would explode. It’s also why one person is buying up most of Senatobia and he isn’t a bulldog.

 

[onewoof]

I commute 45 minutes each way 3-4 times a week now. I'd certainly swap...BUT, I think the teleworking pendulum will begin shifting, if it hasn't already. That said, both the county and city school systems in Oxford and Lafayette are positive draws for workforce development.

I've always thought Batesville / Panola County would be a good investment based on being on I-55 and close to Sardis. Could be wrong. I am also still very partial to Coast and the PB, though.

Interesting and surprising that Oktibbeha, Clay, and Lowndes are all down.

Covid deaths

Oktibbeha 173
Clay 104
Lowndes 258

https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/resources/19762.pdf

 

[The Cooterpoot]

TIL people selectively care about public funds being spent ethically.
I also learned someone apparently thinks that private schools would be like contractors so they should be able to spend public funds however they wish without auditing and no oversight.
Oh, and I learned that someone else actually thinks there is no such thing as public money. Apparently they don't believe that taxes collected and allocated to various programs and departments within a town is public money. I guess we can all just choose where our money does and doesn't go?...good luck with that theory.

This place, oh man.
Reading thru this thread, there should be 0 wonder why a population drain exists and will continue to exist.

Til people realize there's no such thing as "public funds" I can understand why people who think there is, move to places that claim to have it.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

But when the law doesn't require the same of all schools, the law makers are simply cherry picking a desired result. Make all schools receiving vouchers comply with the same rules. Period. tehn you will have true competition for a students' vouchers. To do otherwise is banana republic cronyism, at its finest.

Again, it's not my job to support a bad school. My tax dollars (MINE) should go to wherever I choose to send my kids to school. I don't care about anything else. I should be able to help my child with my tax money. You'd rather argue over being fair to schools. Screw that! I don't care about your school or your tax money. I'm about abolishing ALL restrictions for my education dollars.

 

[Dawgg]

Wow... my home county in Mississippi, Alcorn, lost 200 people Since April 1, 2020.

The county I live in now, Ellis County, Texas, has grown by 20,000 since April 1, 2020.

 

[mstateglfr]

Til people realize there's no such thing as "public funds" I can understand why people who think there is, move to places that claim to have it.

What states dont claim to have public funds?

 

[dudehead]

Again, it's not my job to support a bad school. My tax dollars (MINE) should go to wherever I choose to send my kids to school. I don't care about anything else. I should be able to help my child with my tax money. You'd rather argue over being fair to schools. Screw that! I don't care about your school or your tax money. I'm about abolishing ALL restrictions for my education dollars.

That's like me saying, my federal tax dollars should not go to the USDA and subsidize US commercial agriculture because my family only eats home or cooperative grown organic food and I should be able to spend my tax dollars (MINE) in support of wherever I choose to buy my food. I don't care about anything else. I should be able to feed my family with my tax money. You'd rather argue over being fair to commercial big AG. Screw that! I don't care about your Big Ag or your tax money. I'm about abolishing ALL restrictions for my tax dollars that funds Big Ag.

It doesn't work that way.

 

[Dawgg]

Mississippi's population is declining because of a lack of opportunities for desirable careers. People are leaving for better career opportunities and we don't come back because we want to raise our kids somewhere that they don't have to leave behind when they go to work.

It's not isolated to Mississippi, most places have this happen within it's own borders though. East Texas towns are losing their kids to Houston, Dallas, and Austin. Mississippi kids are not going to Jackson though, they're going to Atlanta, Huntsville, Memphis, Dallas, Houston, etc..

I always see people getting excited about a new plant coming to some town in Mississippi, but that's not what is needed to stop the exodus. The state needs a real modern industry. Mississippi needs white collar jobs and lots of them in a specific geographic area. If you look at places like North Alabama and NW Arkansas, you see huge growth engines for their respective states build around aerospace and Walmart respectively. That's what Mississippi needs if it doesn't want to continue to shrink.

It's always about jobs. Good jobs that people are willing to move for... Not just the blue collar jobs that only take local residents from some other local employer.

Nailed it.

I love Mississippi and I'll always consider myself a Mississippian, but I can't conceive a situation outside of winning the lottery where I would move back there because I will never find a job close to the job I have now (web-related data and analytics) and even if I do, it won't be at comparable pay, even with a lower cost of living and if it existed, it would be at one completely random company and if I lost that job, I would have to move away again because it just doesn't exist in the state.

I'm not moving back to Corinth, MS so I can work at Caterpillar. That's no disrespect to people that work at Caterpillar. I have a lot of family (including my mother) and friends that worked at/work at that Caterpillar and I worked there one summer too. Having a job at Caterpillar keeps people from moving away from Corinth, but there's no drove of folks crossing 3 states to get a job there (or Toyota in Tupelo or Nissan in Canton or wherever), unless they're from the corporate office coming down for a management gig.

People are flocking to the DFW area because there are multiple corporate headquarters and/or large regional entities here. That creates a safety net if you ever find yourself laid off or in a position where you want a change.

Really makes you wonder what would have happened if WorldCom had completed its purchase of Sprint in 1999 and had its headquarters in Clinton... and hadn't been a complete sham.

 

[johnson86-1]

I dont understand this question.
From what I have always understood, individuals who qualify for SNAP benefits are able to purchase select items at participating stores using their benefits instead of their own personal money.

I genuinely dont understand your question- I think it is missing words, or puctuation, or both. Not trying to be a dick, I dont know what you are asking. Maybe your question is correct and I didnt know that grocery stores spend SNAP money?...not sure how that works.

And that is why I said you don't have even a coherent misunderstanding of what public funds are.

Dollars spent by a grocery store are not public funds, even if a significant portion of the revenue the generate comes from SNAP.

Nor are dollars spent by a landlord public funds, even if a significant portion of the revenue the generate comes from Section 8.

Nor would dollars spent by a private school be public funds, even if a significant portion of the revenue they receive come from school vouchers.

Under all three scenarios, the private entity is accepting vouchers from beneficiaries, and then getting paid by the government. That does not turn them into a public entity, nor does it make the money they spend public funds. If a grocery store owner wants to sell a basket of groceries to a person using an EBT card and then immediately take the equivalent amount of cash out of the drawer and spend it, I don't care whether he donates that money to a church or buys 15 minutes with a hooker. It's his money at that point, not public funds.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Again, it's not my job to support a bad school. My tax dollars (MINE) should go to wherever I choose to send my kids to school. I don't care about anything else. I should be able to help my child with my tax money. You'd rather argue over being fair to schools. Screw that! I don't care about your school or your tax money. I'm about abolishing ALL restrictions for my education dollars.

That doesn’t make any more sense than insisting your tax dollars only go to roads and bridges you drive on every day, power lines running to your neighborhood / house, the closest fire department to your house, etc.

 

[johnson86-1]

I'm not. I'm concerned about us wasting precious limited resources building a separate parallel education system instead of fixing the one we have, particularly since we are the poorest state. If the charter/voucher schools have an MO that makes them better at educating kids compared to the traditional public schools, then let's change the rules/laws so that traditional public schools can utilize that same MO. Why can we not do that? FYI, I have repeatedly asked this question publicly and privately and cannot get a straight satisfactory answer. I have a hunch about why but it wouldn't be helpful to bring it up.

Largely because of principal agent problems. It is hard to set up the right incentives when government is providing a good or service and usually it requires a lot of rules to stop abuses. If we could just "fix the rules" to allow public schools to operate better, we could do that for pretty much anything and just have government provide all sorts of goods and services. It's the same reason that we have EBT cards rather than SNAP benefits picking up their government cheese at the same location as WIC beneficiaries get their food. I'm sure when we had government cheese, there was a lot of oversight into how that cheese was produced and/or procured, how the distribution centers were operated, etc. But once they decided that SNAP beneficiaries could be allowed to buy what they want within allowed categories, they didn't have to do that. They just have to set basic rules and make sure the purchases follow the rules and aren't fraudulent. Certainly some stupidity comes out of that (e.g., you can use EBT to buy crawfish that has been cooked and then chilled, but you can't buy it hot), but it's much less burdensome than what is required when the government is providing the groceries itself.

And if you haven't been able to get a satisfactory answer to that question, you have really been asking the wrong people.

 

[Boom Boom]

Largely because of principal agent problems. It is hard to set up the right incentives when government is providing a good or service and usually it requires a lot of rules to stop abuses. If we could just "fix the rules" to allow public schools to operate better, we could do that for pretty much anything and just have government provide all sorts of goods and services. It's the same reason that we have EBT cards rather than SNAP benefits picking up their government cheese at the same location as WIC beneficiaries get their food. I'm sure when we had government cheese, there was a lot of oversight into how that cheese was produced and/or procured, how the distribution centers were operated, etc. But once they decided that SNAP beneficiaries could be allowed to buy what they want within allowed categories, they didn't have to do that. They just have to set basic rules and make sure the purchases follow the rules and aren't fraudulent. Certainly some stupidity comes out of that (e.g., you can use EBT to buy crawfish that has been cooked and then chilled, but you can't buy it hot), but it's much less burdensome than what is required when the government is providing the groceries itself.

And if you haven't been able to get a satisfactory answer to that question, you have really been asking the wrong people.

Great answer, but I'm sure not for the reasons you think. The move from govt cheese to SNAP benefits provided no real improvement to the recipients, but it created a ton of graft for elites to score profits from at the expense of the taxpayer. School vouchers will do the same (albeit with profits substituted out for political ends with many, ie religious and political instruction at taxpayer expense, or allocation of funds to the "right" people).

 

[Maroon Eagle]

It's the same reason that we have EBT cards rather than SNAP benefits picking up their government cheese at the same location as WIC beneficiaries get their food.

The move from govt cheese to SNAP benefits provided no real improvement to the recipients, but it created a ton of graft for elites to score profits from at the expense of the taxpayer.

Not Government Cheese

SNAP's EBT cards usage is an update of the old Food Stamps.

 

[vhdawg]

County Population Totals and Components of Change: 2020-2023

This page features county population estimates totals and components of change for years 2020-2023.

www.census.gov

Hinds County has lost 10,000 people in TWO YEARS

 

[mstateglfr]

And that is why I said you don't have even a coherent misunderstanding of what public funds are.

Dollars spent by a grocery store are not public funds, even if a significant portion of the revenue the generate comes from SNAP.

Nor are dollars spent by a landlord public funds, even if a significant portion of the revenue the generate comes from Section 8.

Nor would dollars spent by a private school be public funds, even if a significant portion of the revenue they receive come from school vouchers.

Under all three scenarios, the private entity is accepting vouchers from beneficiaries, and then getting paid by the government. That does not turn them into a public entity, nor does it make the money they spend public funds. If a grocery store owner wants to sell a basket of groceries to a person using an EBT card and then immediately take the equivalent amount of cash out of the drawer and spend it, I don't care whether he donates that money to a church or buys 15 minutes with a hooker. It's his money at that point, not public funds.

You are definitely operating on another level than me. I'm just not sure if it's well above me or well below me.

You have twice now claimed that grocery stores spend public funds(SNAP dollars).
I don't understand that claim at all.
Grocery stores aren't spending public funds, they are receiving public funds in exchange for choosing to participate in a government program that uses public funds.

Public funds are funds which are taxpayer money which has been collected and spent as various governmental entities see fit(services and programs, etc).
SNAP funding is public funds.

How is this even controversial or debatable?
It's like the twilight zone around here on a regular basis.
Public funds is now a myth? Oh OK then.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

How is this even controversial or debatable?
It's like the twilight zone around here on a regular basis.
Public funds is now a myth? Oh OK then.

Even more of a Twilight Zone if you’ve got me bringing forth The Bible…

Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.
($1 to Matthew & Jesus)

 

[Mr. Cook]

Even more of a Twilight Zone if you’ve got me bringing forth The Bible…

Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.
($1 to Matthew & Jesus)

That @Maroon Eagle is pulling out the KJV Bible is certainly a sign the Apocalypse is upon us...unless he's been into the Maker's Mark and listening to Johnny Cash.

"Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?" (Rev 13:4)

Dude, if you start referring to SPS a "that group of unwashed heathens," an intervention may be in your future.

 

[Boom Boom]

Not Government Cheese

SNAP's EBT cards usage is an update of the old Food Stamps.

And food stamps replaced govt cheese. What's your point?

Mine is that SNAP is a profit generator for big corps. Govt cheese wasn't. Do you disagree?

 

[Mr. Cook]

And food stamps replaced govt cheese. What's your point?

Mine is that SNAP is a profit generator for big corps. Govt cheese wasn't. Do you disagree?

California and Wisconsin thank you for their subsudies.*********

 

[Maroon Eagle]

And food stamps replaced govt cheese. What's your point?

Mine is that SNAP is a profit generator for big corps. Govt cheese wasn't. Do you disagree?

Food stamps didn’t replace government cheese.

Stamps were created before cheese and they were separate programs until cheese became subordinate to food stamps.

Yeah. I disagree with your differentiating cheese and SNAP if only because there’s *always* profit somewhere.

Hark! There’s a message from @Mr. Cook …

California and Wisconsin thank you for their subsudies.*********

 

[johnson86-1]

You are definitely operating on another level than me. I'm just not sure if it's well above me or well below me.

You have twice now claimed that grocery stores spend public funds(SNAP dollars).
I don't understand that claim at all.
Grocery stores aren't spending public funds, they are receiving public funds in exchange for choosing to participate in a government program that uses public funds.

Public funds are funds which are taxpayer money which has been collected and spent as various governmental entities see fit(services and programs, etc).
SNAP funding is public funds.

How is this even controversial or debatable?
It's like the twilight zone around here on a regular basis.
Public funds is now a myth? Oh OK then.

I’m not the one claiming grocery stores are spending public funds. You either are claiming that or you are being incoherent.

 

[johnson86-1]

Not Government Cheese

SNAP's EBT cards usage is an update of the old Food Stamps.

Well you educated me on this. I thought they went from picking up government food like they did for WIC and then replaced that with food stamps (which then became ebt cards). Did they just do away with the government food and not replace it? So snap was originally supplemental to another program and now is just supplemental to their own spending?

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Well you educated me on this. I thought they went from picking up government food like they did for WIC and then replaced that with food stamps (which then became ebt cards). Did they just do away with the government food and not replace it? So snap was originally supplemental to another program and now is just supplemental to their own spending?

WIC is a separate program for low income pregnant and breastfeeding women, infants, and children under five years old.

It supplements SNAP.

Food stamps were first used during the Great Depression in ‘39 and ended during World War II due largely to the unemployment rate being so low due to the wartime economy.

Government cheese was separately introduced during World War II. As @Mr. Cook mentioned a few posts earlier, it was created to maintain the price of dairy products when industry subsidies artificially increased the supply and created a surplus.


I had told @Boom Boom earlier this evening that Cheese was supplemental to Food Stamps earlier. It isn’t the case.

Cheese used to be part of WIC but it was separated out less than a decade ago to emphasize nutrition for the low income elderly.

Food stamps were reintroduced during JFK’s administration via Executive Order (having temporary authority to do so under a law passed when Eisenhower was president — Ike could have done this too but elected not to) and became permanent again as part of LBJ’s War on Poverty.

All three programs are under the USDA — Department of Agriculture.

Edit to Add: It’s been years since I’ve had to think of all of these programs in depth.

When your family used to own and operate a mom and pop store back in the day, you can’t help but get a little knowledge about the USDA programs…