OT: Macroeconomic Outlook

PooPopsBaldHead

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Dec 15, 2017
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First off, before any **** slinging about your least favorite politicians, let's understand this... Fiscal stimulus (aka direct payments to people) were given out in 2020 and 2021. Way too much in both cases and plenty of blame fore everyone. Keep your blame for somewhere else and lets try to have a thread about how to best navigate it financially.

A month ago, I would have thought our high inflation numbers would cool this summer as year over year comparisons get into last summer's increasing interest rates. I was also bitching about how when CPI numbers came out they only showed a 4% increase in housing inflation, even though we all know rent and home prices are 3-4x that amount. The BLS also uses this stupid metric called "Owner's Equivalent Rent" which keeps housing inflation data down, but it still should have been above 4%.

Well, earlier this week a paper was published out of Harvard by Larry Summers (former treasury secretary and president of Harvard) and some other economists showing that there is a 13-16 month on housing inflation in the CPI. Below is the link to the full paper if you are really bored. And below that are a couple images from the paper showing the lag in a few charts and their forecast of where housing inflation will be through 2023... If the housing/rent markets level off.*

https://www.nber.org/papers/w29795

View attachment 23996

View attachment 23997

I find this info critical, because as Boom Boom pointed out a while back, the inflation was driven by used vehicles, meat, and fuel up until this point. Well, those three items combined only account for about 10% of CPI. Housing is closer to 40%.

Speaking of fuel and food. Those two items are going to climb significantly, thanks to Russia/Ukraine. Oil/gas, is an obvious one. But food prices are going to keep climbing due to the fact that the 2 countries combine for 15% of the worlds total wheat supply. Wheat is arguably the most important crop in the world and futures pricing are up 40% this week alone as I type this. It effects everything we eat in some form and we can see it driving future prices in corn and soybeans as well which have both climbed to new record highs.

Here is the most recent IRI data showing the still increasing grocery prices broken down by category. Copenhagen and Miller Lite are actually doing okay believe it or not.

View attachment 23998

War is inflationary in of itself. It creates access demand on commodities like fuel, steel, and food. It also causes governments to increase deficit spending. In the US, we have a whole lot of military equipment manufacturing and the demand is going to put a lot of people to work in high paying jobs and creating more labor shortages in an already unbelievably tight market. Wages will continue to rise. Another factor not being captured in rising wages is job changers. Lots of people are leaving jobs for higher paying jobs which is another way of putting excess money into the economy.

Housing, food, and gas comprise about 60% of CPI. Considerably higher CPI data for all 3 of these items are baked in no matter what the Fed does with rates for the next 8-12 months. And speaking of the Fed... Let's discuss the yield curve.


For those not familiar the spread between 2 year and 10 year treasury rates are what we refer to as the yield curve. When the 10 year rates go lower than the 2 year rates, thats an inversion and the most likely forward indicator of a recession. It's predicted every recession in the last 65 years without fail and only had one inversion not followed by recession. Currently, the yield curve spread is 25bps the exact amount that Powell says the Fed will raise rates in a few weeks.

View attachment 23999

https://www.reuters.com/business/fi...en-flattening-why-you-should-care-2022-02-03/

This suggests its almost a foregone conclusion that the yield curve will invert this summer and predict a late 2022 or 2023 recession. (Hat tip to Fishwater, he called this a few months back.) So if we are entering a recession with high inflation, that's stagflation. While I don't think it will be 70's bad, we are certainly going to have similar issues, albeit, probably not as long lasting.


Anyhow, that's what I am seeing. Now what am I doing about it.

1. Buying cheaper **** at the grocery store and cutting back on driving as much as possible. It sound simple, but the easiest way to force prices down is not to pay them if at all possible. I am drinking a "signature select" diet ginger ale right now. $2.99 for a 12 pack vs $5.99 for brand name. 17 them, it's damn near Canadian Dry.

2. Real estate. Specifically single family housing. I know it's high, but I will beat the dead horse again, it's going higher. From 1972 to 1982 median home prices in the US almost tripled. It's the best inflation hedge in the world. It captures higher commodity prices, higher labor prices, a devalued currency, and unlike gold or bitcoin, shelter is a basic tenant of survival. You will sell everything in the world before going homeless.

Other factors are the flat out lack of inventory. We are blowing away supply and price increase records set last year. Don't be fooled by headline date about there being 10% less mortgage applications than this time last year.. Its because there is 30% less inventory than there was this time last year per available home, mortgage applications are up considerably which means more bidding wars as there are more buyers and less homes. Below are 2 charts showing available inventory compared to this week in previous years and pricing... and for the first time in history, the newly listed homes are higher priced than the existing inventory (usually cheaper houses sell fast leaving only expensive homes on the market.) The final chart shows days on market. Last week of February pre pandemic averaged around 90 days, last year was 55 days, this year is at 35 days. It's absolutely nuts.

View attachment 24000

View attachment 24001
View attachment 24002

Housing will cool one day hell it may even crash.. But from where to where? I just saw a house in my neighborhood that was built in 2018 and is now for sale for 124% more with no additions or extra work... There is much greater risk to not buying hoping it will crash than buying, remember 12% was the total housing decline during the "housing bust." For your personal home my advise is always: If you like the house and you can afford the house, buy the house.

3. Equites. I like stuff with pricing power of course. Not as bullish on banks, because I don't think the Fed is going to raise rates as high as before as global gdp is going to take a hit, it would be very dangerous to overshoot rates. But in the last couple of weeks I am building positions in defense stocks, oil stocks, commodity based material companies (miners and timber), and oilfield services. The overall market is in no mans land right now and could go either way from here. War is actually bullish for stocks usually, but rising rates and quantitative tightening are not, so who knows. But I am pretty damn sure Exxon, Lockheed Martin, Weyerhaeuser, and Baker Hughes will have nice top and bottom line growth over the next 12 months.

Love to hear any other ideas or to poke holes in my base case on elevated inflation for longer.
 

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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Podcasts from 'The Problem with John Stewart' are 17ing excellent. Flat out incredible topics and discussions. Everyone should give them a chance, even though his name triggers some here. Topics are wide ranging and deeply researched.

The two below relate to this thread topic. It's really quite fascinating to hear the varying views of monetary policy.
Should companies be bailed out? Should the people instead be bailed out?
Basics on both sides will argue they know what's best and base that on pretty superficial understanding as well as questionable evidence.

Germany- highest inflation in 30 years.
China- highest inflation in 30 years.
It's almost as if we are in a global economy and some things are largely out of our collective control.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...my-is-a-delusion/id1583132133?i=1000548449939

And then

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jon-referees-an-economist-battle/id1583132133?i=1000552086865



ETA- it's time to print the trillion dollar coin and toss a few to those who hold our debt. Call it good and start over.
Kidding not kidding.
 

PooPopsBaldHead

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2017
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It's almost as if we are in a global economy and some things are largely out of our collective control.

The reason we have inflation is because of increased income with decreased productivity (supply.) For capitalism to work properly you have to leave it alone. When productivity falls off a cliff, people lose their jobs, and demand decreases relative to the drop in supply. When supply drops but income increases through PPP, stimulus, extended unemployment, student loan and mortgage moratoriums etc there is no drop in demand since people are flush with cash.

I'm not arguing the right or wrong of the matter, but it's simple economics. This happened throughout the world at various levels for various reasons.Japan has been trying to create inflation for 30 years and still can't do it.

If we had zero fiscal or monetary stimulus, but the same shutdowns we would have had a massive prolonged recession and demand destruction. There would probably be small pockets of supply chain inflation, but it would be minimal. Not many people would be out buying homes, cars, or wagyu beef.

If we had all the stimulus but no productivity destruction we would have a whole lot of inflation, but not everywhere. I have posted this before, but 2 inflation areas near and dear to my heart are beef and lumber. Both had back to back record breaking production years in 2020 and 2021 as essential business with minimal disruption, yet lumber quadrupled and beef doubled in price. That's not supply chain, it's too much $ in pockets.
 

M R DAWGS

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Apr 13, 2018
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The reason we have inflation is because of increased income with decreased productivity (supply.) For capitalism to work properly you have to leave it alone. When productivity falls off a cliff, people lose their jobs, and demand decreases relative to the drop in supply. When supply drops but income increases through PPP, stimulus, extended unemployment, student loan and mortgage moratoriums etc there is no drop in demand since people are flush with cash.

I'm not arguing the right or wrong of the matter, but it's simple economics. This happened throughout the world at various levels for various reasons.Japan has been trying to create inflation for 30 years and still can't do it.

If we had zero fiscal or monetary stimulus, but the same shutdowns we would have had a massive prolonged recession and demand destruction. There would probably be small pockets of supply chain inflation, but it would be minimal. Not many people would be out buying homes, cars, or wagyu beef.

If we had all the stimulus but no productivity destruction we would have a whole lot of inflation, but not everywhere. I have posted this before, but 2 inflation areas near and dear to my heart are beef and lumber. Both had back to back record breaking production years in 2020 and 2021 as essential business with minimal disruption, yet lumber quadrupled and beef doubled in price. That's not supply chain, it's too much $ in pockets.

That “Free” money comes with a cost.

I’ve said this before, but “Free” money cannot equal earned money in value. It leads to consequences/inflation.
 
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BoomBoom.sixpack

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First off, before any **** slinging about your least favorite politicians, let's understand this... Fiscal stimulus (aka direct payments to people) were given out in 2020 and 2021. Way too much in both cases and plenty of blame fore everyone. Keep your blame for somewhere else and lets try to have a thread about how to best navigate it financially.

A month ago, I would have thought our high inflation numbers would cool this summer as year over year comparisons get into last summer's increasing interest rates. I was also bitching about how when CPI numbers came out they only showed a 4% increase in housing inflation, even though we all know rent and home prices are 3-4x that amount. The BLS also uses this stupid metric called "Owner's Equivalent Rent" which keeps housing inflation data down, but it still should have been above 4%.

Well, earlier this week a paper was published out of Harvard by Larry Summers (former treasury secretary and president of Harvard) and some other economists showing that there is a 13-16 month on housing inflation in the CPI. Below is the link to the full paper if you are really bored. And below that are a couple images from the paper showing the lag in a few charts and their forecast of where housing inflation will be through 2023... If the housing/rent markets level off.*

https://www.nber.org/papers/w29795

View attachment 23996

View attachment 23997

I find this info critical, because as Boom Boom pointed out a while back, the inflation was driven by used vehicles, meat, and fuel up until this point. Well, those three items combined only account for about 10% of CPI. Housing is closer to 40%.

Speaking of fuel and food. Those two items are going to climb significantly, thanks to Russia/Ukraine. Oil/gas, is an obvious one. But food prices are going to keep climbing due to the fact that the 2 countries combine for 15% of the worlds total wheat supply. Wheat is arguably the most important crop in the world and futures pricing are up 40% this week alone as I type this. It effects everything we eat in some form and we can see it driving future prices in corn and soybeans as well which have both climbed to new record highs.

Here is the most recent IRI data showing the still increasing grocery prices broken down by category. Copenhagen and Miller Lite are actually doing okay believe it or not.

View attachment 23998

War is inflationary in of itself. It creates access demand on commodities like fuel, steel, and food. It also causes governments to increase deficit spending. In the US, we have a whole lot of military equipment manufacturing and the demand is going to put a lot of people to work in high paying jobs and creating more labor shortages in an already unbelievably tight market. Wages will continue to rise. Another factor not being captured in rising wages is job changers. Lots of people are leaving jobs for higher paying jobs which is another way of putting excess money into the economy.

Housing, food, and gas comprise about 60% of CPI. Considerably higher CPI data for all 3 of these items are baked in no matter what the Fed does with rates for the next 8-12 months. And speaking of the Fed... Let's discuss the yield curve.


For those not familiar the spread between 2 year and 10 year treasury rates are what we refer to as the yield curve. When the 10 year rates go lower than the 2 year rates, thats an inversion and the most likely forward indicator of a recession. It's predicted every recession in the last 65 years without fail and only had one inversion not followed by recession. Currently, the yield curve spread is 25bps the exact amount that Powell says the Fed will raise rates in a few weeks.

View attachment 23999

https://www.reuters.com/business/fi...en-flattening-why-you-should-care-2022-02-03/

This suggests its almost a foregone conclusion that the yield curve will invert this summer and predict a late 2022 or 2023 recession. (Hat tip to Fishwater, he called this a few months back.) So if we are entering a recession with high inflation, that's stagflation. While I don't think it will be 70's bad, we are certainly going to have similar issues, albeit, probably not as long lasting.


Anyhow, that's what I am seeing. Now what am I doing about it.

1. Buying cheaper **** at the grocery store and cutting back on driving as much as possible. It sound simple, but the easiest way to force prices down is not to pay them if at all possible. I am drinking a "signature select" diet ginger ale right now. $2.99 for a 12 pack vs $5.99 for brand name. 17 them, it's damn near Canadian Dry.

2. Real estate. Specifically single family housing. I know it's high, but I will beat the dead horse again, it's going higher. From 1972 to 1982 median home prices in the US almost tripled. It's the best inflation hedge in the world. It captures higher commodity prices, higher labor prices, a devalued currency, and unlike gold or bitcoin, shelter is a basic tenant of survival. You will sell everything in the world before going homeless.

Other factors are the flat out lack of inventory. We are blowing away supply and price increase records set last year. Don't be fooled by headline date about there being 10% less mortgage applications than this time last year.. Its because there is 30% less inventory than there was this time last year per available home, mortgage applications are up considerably which means more bidding wars as there are more buyers and less homes. Below are 2 charts showing available inventory compared to this week in previous years and pricing... and for the first time in history, the newly listed homes are higher priced than the existing inventory (usually cheaper houses sell fast leaving only expensive homes on the market.) The final chart shows days on market. Last week of February pre pandemic averaged around 90 days, last year was 55 days, this year is at 35 days. It's absolutely nuts.

View attachment 24000

View attachment 24001
View attachment 24002

Housing will cool one day hell it may even crash.. But from where to where? I just saw a house in my neighborhood that was built in 2018 and is now for sale for 124% more with no additions or extra work... There is much greater risk to not buying hoping it will crash than buying, remember 12% was the total housing decline during the "housing bust." For your personal home my advise is always: If you like the house and you can afford the house, buy the house.

3. Equites. I like stuff with pricing power of course. Not as bullish on banks, because I don't think the Fed is going to raise rates as high as before as global gdp is going to take a hit, it would be very dangerous to overshoot rates. But in the last couple of weeks I am building positions in defense stocks, oil stocks, commodity based material companies (miners and timber), and oilfield services. The overall market is in no mans land right now and could go either way from here. War is actually bullish for stocks usually, but rising rates and quantitative tightening are not, so who knows. But I am pretty damn sure Exxon, Lockheed Martin, Weyerhaeuser, and Baker Hughes will have nice top and bottom line growth over the next 12 months.

Love to hear any other ideas or to poke holes in my base case on elevated inflation for longer.

Re past housing drops, that 12% number is highly misleading, as it's an average number, and homeowners don't buy an average. Home prices spiked in some areas, stayed flat in others, mostly related to zoning and loan regulation. Where prices spiked, they crashed. Where they never spiked, they stayed flat. This averaged out to a 12% loss, but make no mistake those that bought in in areas that spiked saw 30-50% losses.

Saw a recent headline that wages are dropping. I'll continue to harp, it's next to impossible to have true inflation (ie a devaluation in purchasing power) without continual wage increases. Price changes due to supply and demand are a whole other phenomenon.

Also saw that the ports appear to be catching up.

And that the companies raising prices are seeing bonzo profits. Don't think that has ever happened. Gonna be some textbook chapters about market consolidation written about this period.

Went to buy some soda the other day. $6 for a 12 pack of 12oz cans. 144 oz. Looked around, 6 pack of 20 oz bottles, $2.39. 120oz. Same soda. Within 1 ft of each other on the shelf. That kind of price disparity is insane and contradicts a lot of conventional thought on product pricing and consumer habits. Still think we're seeing a divergence for smart shoppers and "blind" shoppers (who don't pay attention to price). Companies have the data on this and are following it. CPI obviously is not designed to account for this.
 

DesotoCountyDawg

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You are right about the soda pricing. It’s crazy how much they charge for twelve packs and then the bottles are so much cheaper. The 2 liters are usually even cheaper per Oz.
 

PooPopsBaldHead

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Those 6 pack bottles are technically 16.9 oz. When I was there yesterday the damn 2 liters were $2.99.Chips are getting it too.

Mrs. Socks worked for a CPG (grocery store stuff) broker for about 2 years. The entire industry is goofy. The brokers fight for grocery shelf space and act as the sales force for the manufacturer as well as handling in store promotion from coupons, to signage, to samples.

Anyway, she was responsible for all Land O'Lakes, Borden, Daisy, Dole, and Chobani sales and marketing in the country. Price increases were a 6 month ordeal because of all the different channels.

What we are seeing as grocery inflation is 4 fold.

1. Manufacturers raising prices.
2. Brokers lessening discounts (in store savings) on behalf of manufacturers.
3. Wholesalers/distributors raising margins for freight and labor increases.
4. Grocery stores raising prices to cover higher employee wages.

All are also making extra profits for now, until we push back and buy Great Value over Frito Lay and Dr Thunder vs Dr Pepper. That's how prices lower, demand destruction.
 

DesotoCountyDawg

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We shop Kroger most of the time and unless we don’t have a choice we buy the generic brands or the store brand and not the real deal. We do like the name brand zero drinks so I just wait until they go on sale which at Kroger is usually buy two and get one free.
 

Smoked Toag

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Re past housing drops, that 12% number is highly misleading, as it's an average number, and homeowners don't buy an average. Home prices spiked in some areas, stayed flat in others, mostly related to zoning and loan regulation. Where prices spiked, they crashed. Where they never spiked, they stayed flat. This averaged out to a 12% loss, but make no mistake those that bought in in areas that spiked saw 30-50% losses.

Saw a recent headline that wages are dropping. I'll continue to harp, it's next to impossible to have true inflation (ie a devaluation in purchasing power) without continual wage increases. Price changes due to supply and demand are a whole other phenomenon.

Also saw that the ports appear to be catching up.

And that the companies raising prices are seeing bonzo profits. Don't think that has ever happened. Gonna be some textbook chapters about market consolidation written about this period.

Went to buy some soda the other day. $6 for a 12 pack of 12oz cans. 144 oz. Looked around, 6 pack of 20 oz bottles, $2.39. 120oz. Same soda. Within 1 ft of each other on the shelf. That kind of price disparity is insane and contradicts a lot of conventional thought on product pricing and consumer habits. Still think we're seeing a divergence for smart shoppers and "blind" shoppers (who don't pay attention to price). Companies have the data on this and are following it. CPI obviously is not designed to account for this.
Yeah that's nuts on the drinks. I buy a lot of club soda and those price fluctuations, for the same damn product, are a real thing.
 

tatedog

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Thanks for the work you put into that.

You are way above my pay grade, but nothing I see or hear right now makes me doubt any of it.
 

BoomBoom.sixpack

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Guess I should give my outlook, since that's what you asked. I think in the next couple months it becomes more obvious that rate hikes are not necessary, but we get aggressive hikes anyway, cooling the economy but probably not causing recession.
 

Cooterpoot

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A recession has been a given for some time IMO. I'm seeing home values increased 35% in some areas year over year. And the average is actually over 15%. Yet, home purchases and building aren't backing down. Rates are going to have to be dealt with heavy-handedly by the fed (not huge but hard). But then there's war.
War is normally an economic swing but this time it's going to be a crazy one. It's almost like this was planned.
The higher pay is eating up the unemployed to a level not feasible long term.
Let the normalization begin ASAP! This band aid is going to be a painful rip.
 
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Smoked Toag

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Guess I should give my outlook, since that's what you asked. I think in the next couple months it becomes more obvious that rate hikes are not necessary, but we get aggressive hikes anyway, cooling the economy but probably not causing recession.
I appreciate your yin to JLS' yang. None of these economic threads are complete until we mesh you guys' opinions.
 

PooPopsBaldHead

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That's not far off of what I think. Maybe mild recession, but employment is too strong for a big one. And when I say inflation remains elevated longer, I am talking print inflation. I see a scenario where CPI remains high because of the housing lag, but we actually feel less wallet pain. In that scenario the Fed overshoot is the big risk.
 

Cooterpoot

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JL, you're way ahead of me on all this but I trust the fed like a Taco Bell fart. Only optimism I've got there is they've been so slow to move, so hopefully they stuck with that approach. But I'm hearing they're looking at going hard at rates initially. What they do later this year is a mystery IMO.
 

Digging dog

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The lady that served my sausage biscuit at the gas station Friday said she told her friend girl that when they got that $1300 pandemic money added to her EBT card that prices were gonna go up.
 

dorndawg

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1) Said it before but sometimes it's hard to believe this website is free. Great stuff JLS.
2) My only minor quibble, is that along with pointing out direct payments to people (correctly), PPP played just as big a role. It did some good and not-so-good things. It kept tens of thousands of small businesses afloat, but also let others who in now way needed it engage in price inflation that continues to today. I heartily maintain this inflation we are experiencing is FAR AND AWAY better than the pain we experienced in the Great Recession, which could have been mitigated with more robust governmental infusions of cash. They overshot it this time but it's still a better outcome.
 

PooPopsBaldHead

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I didn't put it in the original post, but agree with your quibble and included this line in a response to golfer...

When supply drops but income increases through PPP, stimulus, extended unemployment, student loan and mortgage moratoriums etc there is no drop in demand since people are flush with cash.

Fiscal stimulus came in many forms and puts money in the hands of everyday people in all kinds of ways which helped create inflation.

Monetary stimulus does the same thing in financial markets.

During the great recession all stimulus was monetary and the stock market inflated quickly. This time we got both. But yes, this is much better than wondering if you are going to lose your job for 3 years... I know some people had it rough this go around (restaurant owners for example), but PPP and all the other stuff helped a lot. And there are tons of jobs out there to this day for anyone that wants one. That was not the case in 2008-2010. It sucked with no assistance whatsoever.

The restaurant owner/worker didn't have anything to do with why their business was closed in 2020, but neither did the poor guy swinging a hammer in 2007. Yet one got a windfall and the other lost his home with no prospects of a new job for years. Both suck but prolonged recession is much worse than inflation.
 

DesotoCountyDawg

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Programs like PPP are always going to give money to businesses or individuals that don’t need it. It’s just the nature of “crafty” writing in congressional bills. You’re going to help a lot of people but at the same time you have others taking advantage of the system.
 

thatsbaseball

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When we stop buying bottle water and start drinking tap water again I'll know inflation has taken a real toll (except in places like Jackson where the water is bad). Until then we're bitching more than we're hurting.
 

dorndawg

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Programs like PPP are always going to give money to businesses or individuals that don’t need it. It’s just the nature of “crafty” writing in congressional bills. You’re going to help a lot of people but at the same time you have others taking advantage of the system.

For sure, I don't disagree, the ox was in the ditch.
 

PooPopsBaldHead

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Threading the needle is what the Fed has to do to cool inflation and avoid recession. The bond market doesn't think it will happen with that yield curve so flat already.

Employment (mainly open jobs) is what I am going to watch. As long as their is a shortage of employees, wages will increase through normal increases and job hopping. When the job market cools so will inflation, but if the Fed keeps hiking at that point the chances of recession gets higher and more damaging.


For the stock market, I have more fear around quantitative tightening (lowering the Fed's balance sheet.) This will take money (liquidity) out of equity markets and that could be bad for stocks.
 

dorndawg

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When we stop buying bottle water and start drinking tap water again I'll know inflation has taken a real toll (except in places like Jackson where the water is bad). Until then we're bitching more than we're hurting.

 

BoomBoom.sixpack

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Threading the needle is what the Fed has to do to cool inflation and avoid recession. The bond market doesn't think it will happen with that yield curve so flat already.

Employment (mainly open jobs) is what I am going to watch. As long as their is a shortage of employees, wages will increase through normal increases and job hopping. When the job market cools so will inflation, but if the Fed keeps hiking at that point the chances of recession gets higher and more damaging.


For the stock market, I have more fear around quantitative tightening (lowering the Fed's balance sheet.) This will take money (liquidity) out of equity markets and that could be bad for stocks.

Fighting inflation via the Fed raising rates is basically like carpet bombing. When the Persian Horde of price increases is coming at you, carpet bombing them is highly effective. But when you are fighting small forces with outsized impact, like snipers, carpet bombing causes a lot of unnecessary destruction to have an effect. That's the issue right now, with inflation coming from very few places, but with high impact, and with many of those likely highly resistant to be effected by rate increases, we would have to cause a lot of collateral damage to the economy to see a measurable effect on inflation.

Ideally the government would respond with agility, responding with a light touch and adjusting inflation measures so as to provide COLA to those that need it without rewarding those that just don't shop. But lol, we know that won't happen. We'll either get economy killing rate hikes, or govt COLAs that reward those that shop blind. Bank profits go up with the former, so that's where my money is.
 

Maroon Eagle

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Many folks don’t necessarily have a choice.

Way back when there were mom and pop stores, my family owned one for around fifteen years.

For a little while it was the only grocery store in town, then a second store came to town which my father loved because it meant there would be more potential customers.

After we got out of the business in the early 90s, the other store chugged along for over 25 years until it wasn’t profitable— yet another story about a rural Mississippi losing population — and it’s been a food desert for over three years now.

Thank goodness though that a store will be opening up this summer.
 

Maroon Eagle

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Re: Buying cheaper items and cutting back on driving.

I’ve not had caffeinated soft drinks in ages so I’m good there.

Driving though. I’ve committed myself to a fairly major road trip this summer.

The things I do because of my love of live music.
 

paindonthurt

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This is one of the things I don’t get when people ***** abt price increases.

1. Shop around as you’ve stated. Buy cheaper ****.

2. DONT BUY IT. Put the cokes and Dr peppers and Mountain dews and cereal up.

Rice is cheap. Beans are cheap. Water is cheaper.

Save money and eat healthier. Lots of good options Out there.

Don’t know how much this affects demand but the fact you can buy “junk food” with EBT is absurd.
 

Maroon Eagle

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5,446
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I agree.

Some things to consider though:

1. Healthier food is generally more expensive.
2. It’s perceived to be easier to maintain and unfortunately gain weight eating junk food and fried foods rather than through more healthy food.
3. Since there are a LOT of poor people & especially in this state, they’re going to go for cheaper, less nutritious food.
4. And eating this food means a lot of folks are more prone to obesity and diabetes.
 

mstateglfr

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2008
13,477
3,413
113
The reason we have inflation is because of increased income with decreased productivity (supply.) For capitalism to work properly you have to leave it alone. When productivity falls off a cliff, people lose their jobs, and demand decreases relative to the drop in supply. When supply drops but income increases through PPP, stimulus, extended unemployment, student loan and mortgage moratoriums etc there is no drop in demand since people are flush with cash.

I'm not arguing the right or wrong of the matter, but it's simple economics. This happened throughout the world at various levels for various reasons.Japan has been trying to create inflation for 30 years and still can't do it.

If we had zero fiscal or monetary stimulus, but the same shutdowns we would have had a massive prolonged recession and demand destruction. There would probably be small pockets of supply chain inflation, but it would be minimal. Not many people would be out buying homes, cars, or wagyu beef.

If we had all the stimulus but no productivity destruction we would have a whole lot of inflation, but not everywhere. I have posted this before, but 2 inflation areas near and dear to my heart are beef and lumber. Both had back to back record breaking production years in 2020 and 2021 as essential business with minimal disruption, yet lumber quadrupled and beef doubled in price. That's not supply chain, it's too much $ in pockets.

I am not saying good it's all supply chain.
I was just saying record inflation is impacting more than just the US right now. We are impacted by other countries(global economy) and some of what we experience is out of our control.
That is a well established and accepted position.
 

PooPopsBaldHead

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2017
7,972
5,080
113
Supply chain disruptions are what you are talking about then? They would cause minimal inflation without fiscal stimulus, but yes they would exist.

Let's look at this global economy and G20 countries, but skip countries like Russia,Turkey, Japan, and Brazil that have other long running issues affecting inflation/deflation.

Saudi Arabia had a very minimal fiscal response to Covid (2% of GDP) and they have a 1.2% inflation rate in Jan 22.

S. Korea had a little more fiscal stimulus (4% of GDP) and is at 3.7% inflation.

France had a little more fiscal stimulus (7.7% of GDP) and is at 3.3% inflation.

Germany had a little more fiscal stimulus (11% of GDP) and is at 5.1% inflation.

Canada had a little more fiscal stimulus (14% of GDP) and is also at 5.1% inflation.

The UK had a little more fiscal stimulus (16% of GDP) and is at 5.5% inflation.

The US had a little more fiscal stimulus (25% of GDP) and is at 7.5% inflation.


Seems to be a trend.
 
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dawgoneyall

Active member
Nov 11, 2007
3,358
121
63
When you posted “Boomer pointed out”…..you lost/forfeited any intelligent basis of discussion.
 

PooPopsBaldHead

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2017
7,972
5,080
113
When you posted “Boomer pointed out”…..you lost/forfeited any intelligent basis of discussion.

Tell us you're a boomer without saying you're a boomer. ***

I actually said "boom boom" not boomer. He's a poster and he pointed something out a few weeks ago.

It was a long *** post and easy to get a little dyslexia. No foul.
 

Cooterpoot

New member
Aug 29, 2012
4,239
2
0
With home values jumping at a record pace, divorce is going to be a crazy big loss for men. And alcohol is going to cost too much to make us forget.
I'm thinking of going back to a regular size condom because my Magnums have doubled in price. Single is hard in the world today.
 
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