OT: Moving Question

[Perd Hapley]

My wife just had to spend the night at ATL this week. She was flying to NY and connecting through ATL on Delta. She landed at 3:00pm and was supposed to fly out at 5:00PM but the plane was grounded for mechanical issues. She ended up having to stay the and fly out at 6:00 am.

There were no less than a dozen flights to NY that Delta had that evening, but every one of them had a bunch of people on standby before her flight was cancelled. I had a similar thing happen in Denver with United trying to get to DC in early December. Landed in Denver at 8 am and they couldn't get me out of there until 10pm.it's just too busy at those 5 airports. As many flights as there are, there are still more àsses than seats.

Give me Seattle, Salt Lake, Nashville, Minneapolis, and Charlotte as the sizes of the biggest airports I want to 17 with these days.

I can understand her frustration, but I’m not sure that’s the fault of the airport….much more so the airline itself.

Honestly speaking, your chances of getting a replacement airplane to take the place of one that has a mechanical issue are much greater with Delta in Atlanta than probably any other airline in any other airport in the world. Obviously not 100% as your wife found out unfortunately…as its heavily dependent on destination and other factors. But if that same thing happens in a regional airport or even a smaller hub, you are 100% screwed almost every single time.

 

[Called3rdstrikedawg]

Brandon.

It's between Jackson and Atlanta, has very good schools, and is about as safe as you can get. Negative is that you do have to go through Pearl though to get to the airport.

Pearl is the safest place in the metro. There are always at least 5-6 cop cars when a 75 years old lady is stopped going 30 in a 25. She might be packing ya know.

 

[Mr. Cook]

Where is your breakdown of Des Moines?

Haven't been yet. I do, however, have a good friend (who happens to be a partner in a law firm) located in Des Moines. He is an Iowa native and Iowa State alum. His take is of the article is interesting, as he feels Des Moines is "punching above its weight."

 

[Mr. Cook]

Damn. Had no clue South Carolina was such a high tax state. 7% income and 6% sales is pretty damn high when basically everything is taxed at 7%. Of course so is 5% income and 7% sales tax when basically everything is taxed at 5%.

Out of curiosity, why no Florida? I don't know that I'd want to live anywhere in the panhandle other than maybe the Pensacola or Gulf Breeze area, but they'd be up there.

I might could do the cape san blas and/or appalachicola (sp?) area. Have just barely been through there so not sure if those areas are the best of both worlds because they have tourist stuff with out massive crowds, or the worst of both worlds because they have tourist hassles without much else.

There is no state grocery tax in South Carolina.

 

[Yeti]

Memphis big city great schools ..you have to pay for them but you didn’t say free. If you are into gun ownership it’s really the place because you will want one . Fantastic Rap music scenes lots of good food that’s fried plus you will sharpen your survival skills.
Housing is cheap, it’s hot as hell in the summer and you get tons of rain in the winter. Did I mention the lessons your kids will get from watching strong city and county leaders like the DA? Would give you more reasons but need to run someone is in my drive and wants to demonstrate to me the best way break a car window to rummage through the car looking for the afore mentioned gun

 

[AstroDog]

We live in Florence, Al. It is the most NW city in Alabama. 3 hours from starkville, 2.5 hours from Nashville, 1.5 hours from Huntsville. Its a great "small town" (think 95000 in the entire county) with great local food/music but also has a target, sams club, etc. We love it so far.

Agree. Florence, Decatur, Gadsden, Fort Payne are all decent small to medium sized towns. I used to drive through Florence every time I'd go home or to MSU during my school days. Lived in Columbia, TN (also a nice medium sized city to live in).

 

[HeCannotGo]

Wife and I are looking to move Q1 next year from Nashville (living here the last 12 years). Luckily I can work remotely and so can she. We currently live in the city but the appeal of living in Nashville isn't everything it's cracked up to be (traffic, fake cowboys and fake country folks, limited sense of community, tourists everywhere, etc). Cost of living is out of control (housing prices are exceeding $450-$500 psf), private school tuition is also incredibly high in Nashville and we don't really want to raise our future children here.

Our criteria for a new city is pretty straightforward: no state income tax in a city with a lower cost of living than Nashville and can't be in FL or TX. We've basically narrowed it down to Lookout Mtn or Signal Mtn (both outside Chattanooga) or possibly Memphis (I'm from Memphis). If it weren't for the no FL limitation I'd strongly consider the panhandle and if it weren't for the no state income tax limitation I'd be looking hard at Auburn, AL, Greenville, SC or outside Charleston, SC.

Lookout and Signal check a lot of boxes: No state income tax, reasonable RE prices, great communities, excellent private school options, almost no crime, if you work from home there is no reason to leave the mountain daily, and the Chattanooga airport is easy to get in and out of although you'll be connecting in ATL or CLT for most flights.

Best of luck where you land, but I'd be curious to find out where you decide and the factors that lead to the decision.

I'm curious about the no-state income tax criterion. My assumption has always been that state governments are going to get their money one way or another. If there's no state income tax, I'm guessing that property taxes, vehicle taxes, sales taxes, etc. make up most of the difference.

Certainly there's a significant difference in tax burden if comparing California, Illinois, or New York to any southern state. But among southern states, is there enough of a difference in overall state-level tax burden to drive the decision on where to live?

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I'm curious about the no-state income tax criterion. My assumption has always been that state governments are going to get their money one way or another. If there's no state income tax, I'm guessing that property taxes, vehicle taxes, sales taxes, etc. make up most of the difference.

Certainly there's a significant difference in tax burden if comparing California, Illinois, or New York to any southern state. But among southern states, is there enough of a difference in overall state-level tax burden to drive the decision on where to live?

Frankly the criterion should properly be Total fees & taxes paid to state & local governments.

Government is going to get our money in some sort of fashion.

The question is the method.

The shiny object that attracts folks is no state income tax but what most people don’t ask is how do the governing bodies get funded and are able to do their functions?

And how well are they done?

 

[WilCoDawg]

Agree. Florence, Decatur, Gadsden, Fort Payne are all decent small to medium sized towns. I used to drive through Florence every time I'd go home or to MSU during my school days. Lived in Columbia, TN (also a nice medium sized city to live in).

Columbia is making gains due to the POL compared to Williamson Co. That’s the direction the population is going right now.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

I'm curious about the no-state income tax criterion. My assumption has always been that state governments are going to get their money one way or another. If there's no state income tax, I'm guessing that property taxes, vehicle taxes, sales taxes, etc. make up most of the difference.

Certainly there's a significant difference in tax burden if comparing California, Illinois, or New York to any southern state. But among southern states, is there enough of a difference in overall state-level tax burden to drive the decision on where to live?

Tax Foundation does a good job of factoring in overall tax burden by state.



But there are caveats. If you're asset heavy with little income but want a nice home, steer clear of Texas and Florida because property taxes will eat you up. If you have high income and want to live in a cheap house, those states are great. In most income tax dependent states you are punished more for having high income. In some states that hit cars with ad valorem (like Mississippi**) drive a clunker instead of brand new cars to stiff the tax man.

All that said, unless you are moving to New York or Connecticut, it's not a big needle mover. We went from no income tax to 6% and are in peak earning years. Our tax burden went up a few thousand dollars a year probably, but we were also able to invest more in real estate without getting hammered. And compared to our federal taxes, I honestly don't even pay attention to the state taxes.

Beyond the tax burden, there are other considerations.The biggest one for me is schools. If you live in a place where you feel it's necessary to send your kids to private school and move to a place where you don't, that's the ballgame.

I was also blown away by how much I was paying for vehicle and homeowners insurance before I moved out of tornado and hail alley. Same vehicles, same coverage, and same carrier my auto insurance dropped from $1200/ 6 months to under $600 the day we moved. It's even more dramatic in homeowners. I pay $800/year for homeowners insurance on a bigger, nicer, more valuable home now than the one in TX that was over $4400/year. Of course gas is $1.25/gallon more, but electricity is $.04/kwh cheaper... It goes on.

All said, the cost of living is damn near a wash overall, but the insurance savings more than covered the extra tax burden.

As long as you avoid the super high states it's pretty negligible in most cases. Live where you are going to be happiest and don't get hung up on how the state taxman is getting you... It's the feds that are really cornholing us all.

 

[mcdawg22]

Tax Foundation does a good job of factoring in overall tax burden by state.

View attachment 334424

But there are caveats. If you're asset heavy with little income but want a nice home, steer clear of Texas and Florida because property taxes will eat you up. If you have high income and want to live in a cheap house, those states are great. In most income tax dependent states you are punished more for having high income. In some states that hit cars with ad valorem (like Mississippi**) drive a clunker instead of brand new cars to stiff the tax man.

All that said, unless you are moving to New York or Connecticut, it's not a big needle mover. We went from no income tax to 6% and are in peak earning years. Our tax burden went up a few thousand dollars a year probably, but we were also able to invest more in real estate without getting hammered. And compared to our federal taxes, I honestly don't even pay attention to the state taxes.

Beyond the tax burden, there are other considerations.The biggest one for me is schools. If you live in a place where you feel it's necessary to send your kids to private school and move to a place where you don't, that's the ballgame.

I was also blown away by how much I was paying for vehicle and homeowners insurance before I moved out of tornado and hail alley. Same vehicles, same coverage, and same carrier my auto insurance dropped from $1200/ 6 months to under $600 the day we moved. It's even more dramatic in homeowners. I pay $800/year for homeowners insurance on a bigger, nicer, more valuable home now than the one in TX that was over $4400/year. Of course gas is $1.25/gallon more, but electricity is $.04/kwh cheaper... It goes on.

All said, the cost of living is damn near a wash overall, but the insurance savings more than covered the extra tax burden.

As long as you avoid the super high states it's pretty negligible in most cases. Live where you are going to be happiest and don't get hung up on how the state taxman is getting you... It's the feds that are really cornholing us all.

Our Property Tax rate in South Santa Rosa county is comparable to Mississippi. My parents pay around the same as I do in Warren County. I doubt that’s the case in Miami, Tampa, etc. I think Florida makes up a lot of tax revenue with bed taxes and tolls. The cost to watch out for in my area is Home Insurance. We’ve been lucky so far but I’ve had neighbors that have seen theirs go from 2500 to 8000. They were able to find another company for 3500 but the options seem to be getting less and less so I have a feeling it’s going to get worse before it gets better.

 

[Boom Boom]

I'm curious about the no-state income tax criterion. My assumption has always been that state governments are going to get their money one way or another. If there's no state income tax, I'm guessing that property taxes, vehicle taxes, sales taxes, etc. make up most of the difference.

Certainly there's a significant difference in tax burden if comparing California, Illinois, or New York to any southern state. But among southern states, is there enough of a difference in overall state-level tax burden to drive the decision on where to live?

As PooPops said, it's mostly a wash. But it can be a big difference for retirees, who have little (taxable) income but still have property and expenses.