OT: Spanier's In the Lion's Den - I finally picked up a copy and started reading it

[GrimReaper]

Why would you refer to the police for something that isn't criminal? I get the idea of referring to the police for anything just to CYA but this is a large organization and if you referred everything to them that could remotely be an issue, they'd never have the time to investigate them all. Especially when you have a case report of a similar incident that was already fully investigated by police and was found to be nothing of consequence.

Why? Because we have the Grinning Baboon cavorting naked in the shower with a kid, on campus, at an hour when virtually no one is around. That behavior is, at best, unusual. So it gets reported to the police to, at the very least, cover the University's fanny and to send a message to the Grinning Baboon, Even if nothing came of it, Sandusky should have been barred from campus without specific prior approval.

 

[Midnighter]

Different levels here. First, I'm assuming that Magic Mike's account was consistent all the way up the ladder i.e. not a compelling description of sexual abuse. From Spanier's perspective it went to Joe, then to Curley/Schultz, and landed on his desk. His reaction should have been two-fold. First, he's not equipped or supposed to deal with such matters directly. Second, he has a paramount responsibility to protect the University. How to properly dispose of it? Refer it to the police. Don't have Tim Curley making phone calls and then convene a session of navel-contemplation.

Exactly. I see a crime, or believe I saw one, I go to the cops. Give a statement. If they feel the need to defer to others, so be it. I would want my complaint recorded for exactly this purpose. I’d hate to think MM was clever enough to leverage this information into a full time job, but…..

 

[NittPicker]

Exactly. I see a crime, or believe I saw one, I go to the cops. Give a statement. If they feel the need to defer to others, so be it. I would want my complaint recorded for exactly this purpose. I’d hate to think MM was clever enough to leverage this information into a full time job, but…..

He ultimately leveraged it into an eight figure payday which I find odd for someone who wasn't a victim of anything. Wrongful termination?? The university was firing everyone.

 

[Zenophile]

He ultimately leveraged it into an eight figure payday which I find odd for someone who wasn't a victim of anything. Wrongful termination?? The university was firing everyone.

Joyner withheld pay to which MM was entitled. The stupidity for that was on his side of the ledger.

 

[Midnighter]

Joyner withheld pay to which MM was entitled. The stupidity for that was on his side of the ledger.

You wonder how a ‘non-criminal’ (according to some) event led to this much financial and reputational ruin. MM is not only a coward but was terrible at his job. Should have been fired for cause or at best for being a liar.

 

[Midnighter]

He ultimately leveraged it into an eight figure payday which I find odd for someone who wasn't a victim of anything. Wrongful termination?? The university was firing everyone.

Yeah - total bullsh*t. Dude lies and receives a bigger payday than most ‘victims’. Most of his payday was ‘punitive’ ($5mm) while the rest was mostly arbitrary. If he could sue for lost wages/damages/ruined reputation every PSU coach should have done the same.

Mike McQueary Wins Misrepresentation Case vs. Penn State: Details, Comments

A jury awarded former Penn State Nittany Lions assistant football coach Mike McQueary a $7.3 million judgment in his defamation and misrepresentation case against the school Thursday...

syndication.bleacherreport.com

 

[GrimReaper]

Exactly. I see a crime, or believe I saw one, I go to the cops. Give a statement. If they feel the need to defer to others, so be it. I would want my complaint recorded for exactly this purpose. I’d hate to think MM was clever enough to leverage this information into a full time job, but…..

Magic Mike wasn't that clever. Guy may be one of the least intelligent primates. He just got very lucky.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Why would you refer to the police for something that isn't criminal? I get the idea of referring to the police for anything just to CYA but this is a large organization and if you referred everything to them that could remotely be an issue, they'd never have the time to investigate them all. Especially when you have a case report of a similar incident that was already fully investigated by police and was found to be nothing of consequence.

Grown man showering alone with a boy in an otherwise deserted locker room at night is cause for concern. You certainly wouldn’t be wrong to call the police. I called the police a few weeks ago when I walked past a house in (or near) my neighborhood one night with three young people in dark hoodies sneaking around outside the house. Was it criminal? I don’t know but it certainly was suspicious and it didn’t feel right so I left it to the police to figure it out. McQueary should have called the police

 

[TheBigUglies]

Does this feel like Groundhog's Day to anyone else?

 

[NittPicker]

Does this feel like Groundhog's Day to anyone else?

Nah. It was all forgotten in 2014.

 

[FHSPSU67]

I just finished reading this book! what amazes me most is that every post, conjecture, etc. has been shown to be true. I know that I could not have gone through everything that Spanier was put through. Also a reveal of just how rotten the Pennsylvania Judicial system is - both Republican and Democrat. Every Penn Stater should read this book!
In the Lions' Den: The Penn State Scandal And A Rush To Judgment: Spanier, Graham: 9798390362150: Amazon.com: Books

 

[BobPSU92]

Does this feel like Groundhog's Day to anyone else?

Must be. I still hate us.

 

[bdroc]

Grown man showering alone with a boy in an otherwise deserted locker room at night is cause for concern.

Easy to say with the benefit of hinsight.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Easy to say with the benefit of hinsight.

Nope. It’s creepy even with foresight.

 

[Shiniquiet]

Fwiw, as I understand it, Garban suffered personally from this for quite a while. He knew what the BOT was doing was the wrong course of action. He did the right thing in recusing himself due to his close relationship with Joe, but then his opinions were muted. He battled some degree of depression over how this all played out, knowing what they were doing and did to PSU and the individuals who had served PSU so well for so long. That said, perhaps he should have spoken up and been forceful in expressing his concerns, but that train was rolling downhill at high speed.

Frazier was well-regarded prior to the crisis. Most all of them were. But they did not understand the difference between handling a corporate crisis and handling one at their beloved academic institution. Ironically, those "leaders" were by far in the minority of anyone connected to PSU in most any way in understanding that their approach was a failing one from the start. Other schools took their poor example as a case study and their leaders easily figured out how to handle similar or other crises without flushing away their goodwill. We didn't know what we didn't know about how poorly they would perform under real pressure, and that any sense of leadership would evaporate in the heat.

The OGBOT was so consumed by ego and fear for their own reputations that they flushed away the best goodwill asset any athletic dept. had ever had. Short-sighted, to say the least. Cowardly, not smart, narrow-thinking to say more.

The present absence of anything resembling good will from Penn State breaks my heart. The good will that PSU had in the past is what made us so special. Now...we're just like everyone else.

 

[Midnighter]

The present absence of anything resembling good will from Penn State breaks my heart. The good will that PSU had in the past is what made us so special. Now...we're just like everyone else.

Worse. If you don’t think some AD or politician in Alabama or Ohio or Florida wouldn’t take the fall if they felt it would prevent the football program from years of potential irrelevancy and embarrassment, you’re mistaken. That said, look at UNC and Miami when the NCAA started sniffing around. They said F Off.

 

[PSUFTG]

Agree with all that has been said....but i am most disturbed by the actions and methods employed by the Pennsylvania Judicial System, the Pa Legal System, and the Pa Police....disgraceful at best and utterly criminal at worst. Cynthia Baldwin should be in jail along with Fina...seems they both wanted to make this trial their big success to further their career.

Most of the people who read the book will likely do so solely out of interest in the "Penn State Story", which is completely understandable.
But more than a bit unfortunate.

It is a wonderful (wonderful in a completely disheartening way) and rare inside look into:
- Our current criminal justice system
- The contemporary norms for what now passes for "institutional leadership"
- The infantile degradation of the fourth estate
And much more. All wrapped up into a few hundred pages.

All memorialized by someone with the requisite skills to do so intelligently and insightfully.
If I were teaching a course on any of those listed topics, this book would be on my required reading list.

 

[Chris92]

I know someone who was on the first grand jury. This person said that they believed the 8 accusers. They also said that they believed spanier, curley and Schultz all knew. What I dont know is WHEN they knew. Did they KNOW while it was happening or did they KNOW when they testified? It's very possible that they didn't believe it until they were called to testify and at that point it sunk in that Sandusky wasn't just horsing around with 2nd mile kids in the shower.

The first GJ only heard from V1; the 2nd GJ heard from the others the PSU crew.

 

[PSU1969A]

The first GJ only heard from V1; the 2nd GJ heard from the others the PSU crew.

Good point. And V1 was such a nice kid!

 

[marshall23]

Believed..LOL... V1 was permitted to read his "testimony " to the GR....and you would be a fool to think he wrote it.

 

[bdgan]

It is a wonderful (wonderful in a completely disheartening way) and rare inside look into:
- Our current criminal justice system

McQueary had emailed Eshbach earlier that day to tell her that the grand jury report that told the world that McQueary had witnessed a naked Sandusky in the Penn State showers having anal intercourse with a 10-year-old boy was wrong. In that same email, McQueary complained to the A.G.'s office that they had "twisted" his words about "whatever it was" that he had actually seen or heard in the showers.
In a second email sent that same day, McQueary complained to Eshbach about "being misrepresented" in the media. And then McQueary tried to straighten out a couple of misconceptions, writing that he never went to Coach Joe Paterno's house with his father, and that he had never seen Sandusky with a child at a Penn State football practice.

"I know that a lot of this stuff is incorrect and it is hard not to respond," Eshbach emailed McQueary. "But you can't."

IMO this sums up the state of our criminal justice system in a nutshell. Seriously, how can she not be disbarred? How can she be rated "most qualified" to be judge by York County Bar Association?

 

[Sharkies]

Most of the people who read the book will likely do so solely out of interest in the "Penn State Story", which is completely understandable.
But more than a bit unfortunate.

It is a wonderful (wonderful in a completely disheartening way) and rare inside look into:
- Our current criminal justice system
- The contemporary norms for what now passes for "institutional leadership"
- The infantile degradation of the fourth estate
And much more. All wrapped up into a few hundred pages.

All memorialized by someone with the requisite skills to do so intelligently and insightfully.
If I were teaching a course on any of those listed topics, this book would be on my required reading list.

No question - Frank Fina's role in this should not be understated.

That said - we also did it to ourselves! Everyone piled on: Emmert, PA prosecutors, random media personalities, ESPN, etc. All to be able to "prove" that they cared more about the victims than the next person... virtue signaling.

We had Steve Dunham (who mercifully, just!! retired from PSU) and Ken Frazier, and Rod Erickson, and plenty of some of the worst type of leaders to ever grace the halls of Old Main. All in the name of "moving on".

 

[J.E.B]

If you think it was bad back then (2010-11ish) - read this:
Beaver Stadium and the Iron Lady – BARRY FENCHAK

As someone who was paying close attention "before Sandusky", and ever since, I can say with no reservation it is worse now than it was then (significantly worse), and now - as opposed to then - PSU does not have the advantages of "charismatic leadership" that it had in previous decades.

PSU has No Leadership. This comment is disgusting.

“Penn State’s Board of Trustees is composed of 36 individuals. We bring a vibrant diversity of viewpoints, lived experiences, and skills to the table, and I’m not going to blush when I say that no other Big10 peer can match this. It is our job to ethically oversee the management of the challenges and opportunities Penn State faces, some nuanced, but all eventually impactful.

Yet since 2018, the entire Board has voted to unanimously approve 94% of the proposals brought before it (223 out of 237). Over the last five years, more than 66% of the current Board members have never voted NO on anything, nor has any proposal been voted down or tabled.”

Chimps is all that they are. Would love to know who the 34% are.

 

[NittPicker]

“Penn State’s Board of Trustees is composed of 36 individuals. We bring a vibrant diversity of viewpoints, lived experiences, and skills to the table, and I’m not going to blush when I say that no other Big10 peer can match this. It is our job to ethically oversee the management of the challenges and opportunities Penn State faces, some nuanced, but all eventually impactful."

They all say "FIGJAM". 36 is too big.

 

[Sharkies]

Just finished the book. Will have an update in the AM. Have a good 10 or so thoughts that I want to flesh out and are worth sharing.

 

[Sharkies]

Just finished the book. Will have an update in the AM. Have a good 10 or so thoughts that I want to flesh out and are worth sharing.

Alright - as I stated last night I finally got finished reading Spanier's book. Lot's of thoughts and certainly, some pages I read I could feel I was clenching my teeth in anger.

Where to begin, or rather end?

1. Sara Ganim comes into the fold. Wins a freakin' Pulitizer, and parlays that into a gig with CNN... her only bodies of work at CNN are picking up the story of the since-debunked incident from the 1970s, consulting in the widely-panned HBO movie, Paterno, peddling a mini-series podcast (The Mayor of Maple Avenue)... and... then... nothing? What type of Pulitizer winner has a career like this?? Graham says she was fired, but I can't even find evidence of that. I did see her on an episode of House Hunters or something similar buying a beach house once.

2. Cynthia Baldwin... I'm convinced, absolutely should be in jail.

3. Rodney Erickson, I'm back to not feeling sorry for him.

4. Other BOT members: Dunham, Masser, Silvis... wow, we really got the worst of the worst for a decade huh? Only changing their tune on whether we even accepted the Freeh report at all when they finally had to face the music due to lawsuits.

5. Barron - somehow managed to tell everyone he would complete a review of the Freeh report, and years go by and gone. Liar.

6. Shapiro - how Brandon Short and other members can be photographed with him is beyond me. He piled on Graham when it was clear he committed no crime and his charges were vacated. Very sobering knowing he is now our governor.

7. I forgot that only 7/9 alumni trustees backed the review of the Freeh report. Those 2 are forever remembered as cowards.

8. Maybe I was too harsh on Ira Lubert? Yea, he cares about milking PSU for all its got, but at least he didn't drop his support for our student athletes.

9. Russ Rose - wow. Graham relates that even after the BOT got rid of a locker for Graham in Rec, Russ let him use his. He never waivered.

10. How sad to not have Franco around anymore. Could see how excited he was to support Graham and Penn State during these trying times. A true loss.

11.. Other misc players: William Wenner: who pounded the gavel saying "this is a sad day for Penn State", Centre Daily Times editorialist Chip Minemyer who published vitriol night after night, PennLive/Patriot News... these guys are gross.

Last but not least Spanier. He relayed that he sincerely regrets not taking the stand in his trial. He apparently took a vote, all 3 of his lawyers, 2 trusted advisors and his own wife, said he shouldn't. I realize this is a legal tactic (that backfired in this case), but for those of us who wanted to hear it straight from him, it was a big missed opportunity and I think he realizes that.

Finally, even though the school ripped tenure away from him, took his indemnity away (so that he had to pay for his lawyers out of pocket) and generally threw him under the bus, he still made the final payments on a $1m donation to Penn State.... how? Why? That allure, is what at least made Penn State special and why I fell in love with her all those years ago...

 

[NittPicker]

Alright - as I stated last night I finally got finished reading Spanier's book. Lot's of thoughts and certainly, some pages I read I could feel I was clenching my teeth in anger.

Where to begin, or rather end?

1. Sara Ganim comes into the fold. Wins a freakin' Pulitizer, and parlays that into a gig with CNN... her only bodies of work at CNN are picking up the story of the since-debunked incident from the 1970s, consulting in the widely-panned HBO movie, Paterno, peddling a mini-series podcast (The Mayor of Maple Avenue)... and... then... nothing? What type of Pulitizer winner has a career like this?? Graham says she was fired, but I can't even find evidence of that. I did see her on an episode of House Hunters or something similar buying a beach house once.

CNN eventually starting send Gamin out to cover snowstorms. The network likely realized she sucked as an investigative reporter but had to honor her contract. Better to at least have her cover bad weather as opposed to paying her for doing nothing.

 

[bbrown]

CNN eventually starting send Gamin out to cover snowstorms. The network likely realized she sucked as an investigative report but had to honor her contract. Better to at least have her cover bad weather as opposed to paying her for doing nothing.

Amazing what leaked Grand Jury testimony can get you huh?

 

[Midnighter]

Ganim is an unprofessional POS.

 

[BowieLion]

Shapiro - how Brandon Short and other members can be photographed with him is beyond me. He piled on Graham when it was clear he committed no crime and his charges were vacated. Very sobering knowing he is now our governor.

This guy...people forget what a pompous *** this guy was towards Spanier and PSU. He was all about getting elected governor. May be doing an ok job as gov but not as prosecutor. F him...