OT- State of golf and PGA

[dawgnabit]

With the LIV tour starting this weekend and the USGA allowing players to play in the US open, what do y'all think the PGA will do next?

If the players can go play in the LIV and make as much money as they are offering and still play in the four majors, I can see more players jumping ship

 

[thatsbaseball]

I've been trying to keep up with this a bit and have nothing but questions also.

edited to ad: So far this year there have been a lot of up-and-comers kicking the better known player's asses so wins haven't come very easy for the high profile guys lately. Some of them may take the sure money and go.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

The PGA is going to have to pony up

And pay out more money in some form if they want the best golfers to play on their tour.

 

[Cooterpoot]

Golf looks FINE to me
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[karlchilders.sixpack]

Paid advertisement? (another)

 

[Dawg1976]

You will still have to qualify to play in the majors. Phil and DJ are in from winning recent major events. Many other in the LIV league have not met the qualification standards. Right now winning a LIV event does nothing in meeting the qualifications. So going forward a lot is up on how the LIV players will qualify for the majors.

 

[STATEgrad04]

If this trend continues with player opting into the LIV and only playing majors, I think it will end up hurting your smaller tournaments from a "name" standpoint and could also hurt your Players tourney as well. That particular tourney always boasts the best field in golf, but when you have some of your biggest names sitting out the draw wont be nearly as big.

I am not sure how many more will follow, but with the money being thrown around it is going to attract a lot of big players. It puts the PGA in tough spot, because if they start truly banning players from participating in PGA events then you will have watered down tournaments and wins will be easier for some of the mid tier golfers. The previous poster is right, in that the PGA is going to have to start paying more in a structured format if they want to keep their current field. They do not want a blurred line between the Korn Ferry tour and the PGA tour.

 

[mstateglfr]

A pro should be able to play on the PGA tour, Euro, Australasia, Asian tour, LIV, and any other tour they want to play on.
If someone wants to play 12 tournaments in Europe and 12 in the US- then they should be able to.


I get it- keeping players locked in helps keep top talent in one place. But those players arent employees of the PGA Tour and to me that makes it very different.



What needs to happen is that LIV tournaments count towards WGR, Ryder points, etc and players can still earn all the same recognition and opportunity to play in majors as they do now(except the PGA Champ). Currently there is no good reason for DJ to not play on the Ryder team or for the LIV 'leader to not auto qualify for the US Open.

 

[msudawg12]

Tiger Woods career earnings with the PGA - $120,895,206
Dustin Johnson LIV contract - $125,000,000

The PGA is 17'd unless they make significant changes

 

[aTotal360]

CREAM

 

[Seinfeld]

This is incredibly unusual territory for professional golf, so on one hand, it’s hard to say what will come of this. But I guess I’m one of the few that thinks the PGA will be completely fine.

There is no way that there’s enough viewership and advertising money in golf to pay for these massive deals, and I think it’s only happening right now because the Saudis have a ridiculous amount of disposable income, and this tour is their shiny, new toy. Within 2 years, my bet is that either the financial model behind this thing completely collapses or else they just get bored with it and pull the plug. Maybe not, but it reminds me of Impact wrestling trying to compete with WWE back in the late 2000s. It’s just not gonna work long term

 

[Shmuley]

Here's what I want to know: what sort of behind the scenes negotiating is going on between the LIV group and Golf Channel? You have gotta believe that the Golf Channel/NBC (and probably the other networks) are carefully positioning themselves to get television rights to LIV tourneys, PGA be damned. I'd like to be a fly on the wall. Pay close attention to upcoming changes in "tone" from the on-air Golf Channel talent once it becomes clear that enough of the pro golf talent will make the move to LIV. When you no longer hear strident language about the Saudis from the talking heads, you'll know that the network brass has made its deal.

 

[aTotal360]

This is where Amazon or Apple should make some waves.

 

[msudawg12]

Here's what I want to know: what sort of behind the scenes negotiating is going on between the LIV group and Golf Channel? You have gotta believe that the Golf Channel/NBC (and probably the other networks) are carefully positioning themselves to get television rights to LIV tourneys, PGA be damned. I'd like to be a fly on the wall. Pay close attention to upcoming changes in "tone" from the on-air Golf Channel talent once it becomes clear that enough of the pro golf talent will make the move to LIV. When you no longer hear strident language about the Saudis from the talking heads, you'll know that the network brass has made its deal.

Or a massive deal from someone like Amazon

 

[thatsbaseball]

Wonder how "endorsement" deals for players will stack up between the two tours ?

 

[fishwater99]

The PGA handled this badly. They will end up losing more players.
Pro Golfers should be able to play wherever they want, the PGA's monopoly is over.

 

[aTotal360]

Gonna be awesome when LIV does a 180 and makes players sign exclusive deals.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Looks like they have two of their eight events scheduled at "Trump" courses that the PGA blackballed.

 

[johnson86-1]

A pro should be able to play on the PGA tour, Euro, Australasia, Asian tour, LIV, and any other tour they want to play on.
If someone wants to play 12 tournaments in Europe and 12 in the US- then they should be able to.


I get it- keeping players locked in helps keep top talent in one place. But those players arent employees of the PGA Tour and to me that makes it very different.



What needs to happen is that LIV tournaments count towards WGR, Ryder points, etc and players can still earn all the same recognition and opportunity to play in majors as they do now(except the PGA Champ). Currently there is no good reason for DJ to not play on the Ryder team or for the LIV 'leader to not auto qualify for the US Open.

Pretty sure tour members can play on all those tours except LIV. That's how you see european members in the US. US members don't skip to europe as much, but pretty sure they're allowed to. The other tours work in partnership though. They aren't really looking to be competitors.

It's generally in the tour members' best interests to collaborate and try to ensure the biggest fields and biggest purses. There has apparently been a lot of frustration with the tour and a belief that they are sucking up too much money rather than distributing it to the players. Some of that I'm sure has been the tour not feeling any threats to make them accountable, but some of it has also I think been poor communication by there part to explain where the money goes. And some of this is just that LIV doesn't need to make money off the tour for the foreseeable future, and some players are just being tempted by the big payday. If you see the names involved, outside of Dustin Johnson, it's not very inspiring, so the PGA must not be too terrible if none of the other big names are taking ridiculous payouts to jump ship.

 

[FISHDAWG]

Wonder how "endorsement" deals for players will stack up between the two tours ?

I was wondering that very same thing ... it will probably boil down to how much exposure the individual players get - question is will that exposure transfer over ?

 

[Pars]

I read that the only place to watch will be YouTube which won’t really move the needle.
This is the Saudis sport washing all their ******** and they are willing to waste billions on this thing.
The players took the money and I can’t really blame them. No worse than the nba kowtowing to China.
It’s going to fail and none of those guys that jumped are eligible to play the Ryder cup.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Like Shmuley said it will all boil down to what TV network they partner with and what exposure will come from the relationship.

 

[aTotal360]

I want what Phil is having...

 

[fishwater99]

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/i...ick-reed-joining-liv-golf-invitational-series

Dechambeau and Reed are next to join, the Saudi oil money is flowing.

 

[mstateglfr]

Pretty sure tour members can play on all those tours except LIV. That's how you see european members in the US. US members don't skip to europe as much, but pretty sure they're allowed to. The other tours work in partnership though. They aren't really looking to be competitors.

It's generally in the tour members' best interests to collaborate and try to ensure the biggest fields and biggest purses. There has apparently been a lot of frustration with the tour and a belief that they are sucking up too much money rather than distributing it to the players. Some of that I'm sure has been the tour not feeling any threats to make them accountable, but some of it has also I think been poor communication by there part to explain where the money goes. And some of this is just that LIV doesn't need to make money off the tour for the foreseeable future, and some players are just being tempted by the big payday. If you see the names involved, outside of Dustin Johnson, it's not very inspiring, so the PGA must not be too terrible if none of the other big names are taking ridiculous payouts to jump ship.

Yes, players have been able to straddle between multiple tours. Thats my point, though I phrased it poorly.
Its absurd that they must choose between tours now.

On a related note, I saw a clip of a reporter asking DJ how he feels about prioritizing money over country. What a 17ing **** *** question.

The list is more than just DJ and some no-names.

 

[Pars]

It’s a midlife crisis
Phil is having a midlife crisis

 

[fishwater99]

Stimulants...

 

[Charlie Varney]

I wonder.....

How much the PGA paid LIV golf to take Patrick Reed and DeChambeau.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

Don't know what they paid Phil, but (at his age)

I seriously doubt that he could have made nearly as much playing golf, as is,

Vs. what he got for this deal.


+ Phil has always been a Me Me Me guy.

 

[DAWGS1.sixpack]

I may be wrong but I can’t see American golfers who live here in the USA spending 5-6 days a week in SA and then trying to fly back home for a day or two or spending 2-3 weeks straight in SA or even taking a week off and then flying back over to SA to play in a Trnm. Just not sustainable over the long haul in my opinion.

 

[Cooterpoot]

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[ckDOG]

Lots of unknowns have to shake out. Just entertain me

With the LIV tour starting this weekend and the USGA allowing players to play in the US open, what do y'all think the PGA will do next?

If the players can go play in the LIV and make as much money as they are offering and still play in the four majors, I can see more players jumping ship

As long as the best players in the world are playing in the Masters, US Open, British Open, and I can watch a another handful of competitive high quality tournaments on TV and in a time zone +- 2 hours, I don't care who is paying the players. Give me golf and quality Sunday naps.

 

[Mobile Bay]

That would be cocaine

 

[archdog]

As long as the LIV is paying set money to players and having large individual event purses, there are zero reasons from a monetary standpoint, that a player wouldn't play LIV events even if it kept them from qualifying for the major events in the PGA. If someone wanted to pay me 100 million for a 5 year deal to play in the LIV, it seems pretty persuasive to me.

 

[archdog]

Also if Paige had an onlyfans site, it would get some subscribers.

 

[VegasDawg13]

Yes, players have been able to straddle between multiple tours. Thats my point, though I phrased it poorly.
Its absurd that they must choose between tours now.

Whether we agree with it or not, it's not absurd. The PGA Tour and the Euro/Asian/etc Tours work in partnership. This is a competitor.

 

[johnson86-1]

Yes, players have been able to straddle between multiple tours. Thats my point, though I phrased it poorly.
Its absurd that they must choose between tours now.

Again, I think the difference is that those tours weren't out to mess up each other's business model. And again, the tour is just the members. There is always the tension between properly rewarding the stars that drive a lot of the earnings and also maintaining a healthy tour for all the members. That's why I believe the WGC exists, is essentially to set up events that pull the best from each tour without competing against the tour. It's not much different than leagues try to do by having big market teams subsidize small market teams through luxury taxes/soft caps.

On a related note, I saw a clip of a reporter asking DJ how he feels about prioritizing money over country. What a 17ing **** *** question.

That is a stupid question. The PGA isn't a country or a representative of the US. And I also don't have a problem with athletes being athletes and not feeling like it's their job to weigh in on world politics or human rights, provided they aren't going around bashing the US or talking about how terrible it is while also partnering with a country like China or Saudi Arabia.

The list is more than just DJ and some no-names.

It's not a bunch of no-names, but outside of Dechambeau, most everybody I have seen is either a journeyman or past their prime (other than the amateur champion that is apparently starting his career there). It's definitely gotten some momentum lately. I would have to really, really be shooting for building a legacy to turn down significant money to join. I think Dustin Johnson has done enough and I don't blame him for taking $100M to join. Dechambeau is probably not going to be a great, so if I were him I'd definitely consider it for $50M. At some point less than that, I'd worry that the loss of sponsorships and negative reputation hit would make it not worth it.

What's really dangerous for the tour is if LIV starts making real headway and the guaranteed money starts dropping, and players decide they better jump while the guaranteed money is on the table rather than waiting for the tour to implode. I don't see that happening unless LIV puts another $500M of guaranteed money out there, which I don't think could ever make economic sense, but I'm not sure what they're doing now will ever have a return.

 

[johnson86-1]

I may be wrong but I can’t see American golfers who live here in the USA spending 5-6 days a week in SA and then trying to fly back home for a day or two or spending 2-3 weeks straight in SA or even taking a week off and then flying back over to SA to play in a Trnm. Just not sustainable over the long haul in my opinion.

There is one event in Saudi Arabia. https://www.sportingnews.com/us/gol...ocations-prize-money/k8y0uoimtfn96lj6nd0xadhn

 

[fishwater99]

Here we go, PGA looking like an ***.

https://twitter.com/eamonlynch/status/1534892998407950336?s=20&t=QN5ND7cyKHjqbor2KmnrfA

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2022/06/09/liv-golf-series-participants-suspended-pga-tour/7561580001/

"I am certain our fans and partners — who are surely tired of the all this talk of money, money and money — will continue to be entertained and compelled by the world-class competition you display each and every week, where there are true consequences for every shot you take and your rightful place in history whenever you reach that elusive winner's circles," PGA Tour president Jay Monahan said in a statement.
"We have followed the Tournament Regulations from start to finish in responding to those players who have decided to turn their backs on the PGA Tour by willfully violating a regulation,” Monahan added. “Simultaneous to you receiving this memo, the players are being notified that they are suspended or otherwise no longer eligible to participate in PGA Tour tournament play, including the Presidents Cup."

[FONT=&quot]The LIV Golf Series responded Thursday with a statement saying the suspensions were "vindictive" and that it "deepens the divide between the Tour and its members."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"This certainly is not the last word on this topic. The era of free agency is beginning as we are proud to have a full field of players joining us in London and beyond," LIV Golf said. [/FONT]

 

[Shmuley]

Dustin Johnson isn’t bright enough to come in from the rain much less wax eloquently on geo-politics.