OT - Top Gun: Maverick - I have Questions and Comments

[greenbean.sixpack]

There are more holes in the plot than Vandy's secondary. I'm coming from an AF perspective, but I'd assume Navy mission planning would be similar. My questions (and observations):

1. Why not take out the SAM sites with Tomahawks?
2. We had "eyes on" intel of the objective and it was obviously poorly defended, why not just send SOF troops upriver to plant explosives or otherwise sabatoge?
3. Why not plan that mission for either daybreak or dusk? Dusk would give you enough light to navigate the canyon but you'd have the cover of darkness for escape. Daybreak would be the least opposing forces on duty and ready.
4. Why would you not have fighters and SAR in the air to cover their escape and protect the fleet?
5. Who is Hondo and what is his job? 06s don't have personal assistants. I've never been on an active carrier, but I'm assuming everyone on that fight deck is well-trained and well-controlled, so Hondo is just going to get free range of the deck although he is obviously not assigned to the carrier?
6. The "Hard Deck" bar, it is on base? If so, drinking in uniform would be accepted but not getting wild. If that bar is off base, there'd absolutely be no foolish activities in uniform.
7. No matter how decorated a pilot is or who has his back if he disobeys orders and destroys a multimillion-dollar test aircraft, he wouldn't see the light of day again for many years.
8. When Mav flew over the guard shack and dislodged the roof, the Admiral would have been knocked down at the least if not severely injured.
9. Would you land an aircraft with no front landing gear on a carrier? Seems like that would have a lot of potential to greatly damage the ship and flight deck. I understand the ejection seats didn't work, but wouldn't it be better to ditch in the water and have a rescue team from the ship pull Mav and Rooster out?
10. Don't even get me started on the F14 that just happened to be there fueled up, prepped, armed and hooked up to an engine cart. The only case that would happen is if that plane is on alert and if that were the case the crew and guards would be nearby.

You squids, defend your movie. The Navy did a terrible job of planning and executing this op.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

This post may be the best example of TGM being

Spoiler

a Maverick fantasy while he was dying in the first few minutes of the movie.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

There are more holes in the plot than Vandy's secondary. I'm coming from an AF perspective, but I'd assume Navy mission planning would be similar. My questions (and observations):

1. Why not take out the SAM sites with Tomahawks?
2. We had "eyes on" intel of the objective and it was obviously poorly defended, why not just send SOF troops upriver to plant explosives or otherwise sabatoge?
3. Why not plan that mission for either daybreak or dusk? Dusk would give you enough light to navigate the canyon but you'd have the cover of darkness for escape. Daybreak would be the least opposing forces on duty and ready.
4. Why would you not have fighters and SAR in the air to cover their escape and protect the fleet?
5. Who is Hondo and what is his job? 06s don't have personal assistants. I've never been on an active carrier, but I'm assuming everyone on that fight deck is well-trained and well-controlled, so Hondo is just going to get free range of the deck although he is obviously not assigned to the carrier?
6. The "Hard Deck" bar, it is on base? If so, drinking in uniform would be accepted but not getting wild. If that bar is off base, there'd absolutely be no foolish activities in uniform.
7. No matter how decorated a pilot is or who has his back if he disobeys orders and destroys a multimillion-dollar test aircraft, he wouldn't see the light of day again for many years.
8. When Mav flew over the guard shack and dislodged the roof, the Admiral would have been knocked down at the least if not severely injured.
9. Would you land an aircraft with no front landing gear on a carrier? Seems like that would have a lot of potential to greatly damage the ship and flight deck. I understand the ejection seats didn't work, but wouldn't it be better to ditch in the water and have a rescue team from the ship pull Mav and Rooster out?
10. Don't even get me started on the F14 that just happened to be there fueled up, prepped, armed and hooked up to an engine cart. The only case that would happen is if that plane is on alert and if that were the case the crew and guards would be nearby.

You squids, defend your movie. The Navy did a terrible job of planning and executing this op.

The best answer: it’s a movie.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

I was that ashhole in the minority who, after seeing the most overhyped movie in decades, was vocal about how much the movie sucked and couldn’t imagine sitting through it multiple times as many did.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

This post may be the best example of TGM being

Spoiler

a Maverick fantasy while he was dying in the first few minutes of the movie.

Spoiler: Haha

I like it. In my dying fantasy hopefully, I'd spent more time with Jennifer Connelly

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

I was that ashhole in the minority who, after seeing the most overhyped movie in decades, was vocal about how much the movie sucked and couldn’t imagine sitting through it multiple times as many did.

I don't remember the first one being that bad? Maverick is one of the worst movies I've seen in years.

 

[Fritz!]

This post may be the best example of TGM being

I saw that theory somewhere.
SOF, most logical use of force.
Glad they restored the flight jacket chit to the original and didn’t submit to the CCP ( I haven’t seen the Chinese version)
Most egregious to me is why does a Navy guy have an Army Air Corp/Force aircraft and not the BEST (prop driven) fighter aircraft of WWII, a Corsair?

 

[T-TownDawgg]

haha, I like it. In my dying fantasy hopefully, I'd spent more time with Jennifer Conerly

Yes. Jennifer was the only thing about the movie worthy of a flyby

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

I saw that theory somewhere.
SOF, most logical use of force.
Glad they restored the flight jacket chit to the original and didn’t submit to the CCP ( I haven’t seen the Chinese version)
Most egregious to me is why does a Navy guy have an Army Air Corp/Force aircraft and not the BEST (prop driven) fighter aircraft of WWII, a Corsair?

Good point, a proud Navy guy restoring a P51?

 

[mcdawg22]

There are more holes in the plot than Vandy's secondary. I'm coming from an AF perspective, but I'd assume Navy mission planning would be similar. My questions (and observations):

1. Why not take out the SAM sites with Tomahawks?
2. We had "eyes on" intel of the objective and it was obviously poorly defended, why not just send SOF troops upriver to plant explosives or otherwise sabatoge?
3. Why not plan that mission for either daybreak or dusk? Dusk would give you enough light to navigate the canyon but you'd have the cover of darkness for escape. Daybreak would be the least opposing forces on duty and ready.
4. Why would you not have fighters and SAR in the air to cover their escape and protect the fleet?
5. Who is Hondo and what is his job? 06s don't have personal assistants. I've never been on an active carrier, but I'm assuming everyone on that fight deck is well-trained and well-controlled, so Hondo is just going to get free range of the deck although he is obviously not assigned to the carrier?
6. The "Hard Deck" bar, it is on base? If so, drinking in uniform would be accepted but not getting wild. If that bar is off base, there'd absolutely be no foolish activities in uniform.
7. No matter how decorated a pilot is or who has his back if he disobeys orders and destroys a multimillion-dollar test aircraft, he wouldn't see the light of day again for many years.
8. When Mav flew over the guard shack and dislodged the roof, the Admiral would have been knocked down at the least if not severely injured.
9. Would you land an aircraft with no front landing gear on a carrier? Seems like that would have a lot of potential to greatly damage the ship and flight deck. I understand the ejection seats didn't work, but wouldn't it be better to ditch in the water and have a rescue team from the ship pull Mav and Rooster out?
10. Don't even get me started on the F14 that just happened to be there fueled up, prepped, armed and hooked up to an engine cart. The only case that would happen is if that plane is on alert and if that were the case the crew and guards would be nearby.

You squids, defend your movie. The Navy did a terrible job of planning and executing this op.

My biggest problem was during the canyon run I kept expecting Han Solo to clear the way for the kid, who’s legendary father has died, to use the force to shoot a bomb down a tiny hole.

 

[PBDog]

Now do avatar

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Oh yeah, point 11 and likely the most egregious miss of the movie, why not take out the objective with a missile or drone strike?

 

[maroonmuncie]

I saw that theory somewhere.
SOF, most logical use of force.
Glad they restored the flight jacket chit to the original and didn’t submit to the CCP ( I haven’t seen the Chinese version)
Most egregious to me is why does a Navy guy have an Army Air Corp/Force aircraft and not the BEST (prop driven) fighter aircraft of WWII, a Corsair?

My thoughts exactly, a naval aviator should have been in a Corsair, not a P-51. Just wrong.

 

[LocalBeachBum]

Spoiler alert: maverick died when he ejected at the beginning of the movie and the entire thing was a dream of his before hitting the ground.

he is the only person that can fly the mission.

he flies it in the same plane as were in his glory days.

he rescues his best friend’s kid.

 

[MSUVIPER68]

There are more holes in the plot than Vandy's secondary. I'm coming from an AF perspective, but I'd assume Navy mission planning would be similar. My questions (and observations):

1. Why not take out the SAM sites with Tomahawks?
2. We had "eyes on" intel of the objective and it was obviously poorly defended, why not just send SOF troops upriver to plant explosives or otherwise sabatoge?
3. Why not plan that mission for either daybreak or dusk? Dusk would give you enough light to navigate the canyon but you'd have the cover of darkness for escape. Daybreak would be the least opposing forces on duty and ready.
4. Why would you not have fighters and SAR in the air to cover their escape and protect the fleet?
5. Who is Hondo and what is his job? 06s don't have personal assistants. I've never been on an active carrier, but I'm assuming everyone on that fight deck is well-trained and well-controlled, so Hondo is just going to get free range of the deck although he is obviously not assigned to the carrier?
6. The "Hard Deck" bar, it is on base? If so, drinking in uniform would be accepted but not getting wild. If that bar is off base, there'd absolutely be no foolish activities in uniform.
7. No matter how decorated a pilot is or who has his back if he disobeys orders and destroys a multimillion-dollar test aircraft, he wouldn't see the light of day again for many years.
8. When Mav flew over the guard shack and dislodged the roof, the Admiral would have been knocked down at the least if not severely injured.
9. Would you land an aircraft with no front landing gear on a carrier? Seems like that would have a lot of potential to greatly damage the ship and flight deck. I understand the ejection seats didn't work, but wouldn't it be better to ditch in the water and have a rescue team from the ship pull Mav and Rooster out?
10. Don't even get me started on the F14 that just happened to be there fueled up, prepped, armed and hooked up to an engine cart. The only case that would happen is if that plane is on alert and if that were the case the crew and guards would be nearby.

You squids, defend your movie. The Navy did a terrible job of planning and executing this op.

This post made me stop lurking for the past 12 years and create an account...I'm not in the military, but feel like a lot of people missed the point of this movie. It was meant to be a cinematic masterpiece made for airplane nerds...it had a stretch of a plot and was never a secret that it would be. The attention to fine detail is what made it so good for me. The story had some slow moments I could have done without, but that was for the ladies. The weapon colors and markings throught the movie, the F-14 start sequence being so accurate, how Mav unswept the wings manually in flight, the breakers in the back, etc. It was made for people who just love airplanes and want to see them on the big screen.

1. Easily covered with the why the F-35 wasn't a viable option. Extensive electronic warfare in the area, jamming, etc. That was in itself a plot hole, but they couldn't use the F-35 like they wanted, so had to make an excuse for it not being there. Tomahawk also would have been vulnerable to being shot down by that SAM array.
2. Wrong movie...
3. Did you see how amazing that footage was in daylight??? Aka....movie
4. SAR was probably not survivable going into that hot zone. Technically HangMan was up covering them, the others didn't need it as only 2 fighters were up and not aggressively pursuing the egress. Situational awareness for the enemy was not great....as I would expect under the circumstances.
5. Movie? Comic relief?
6. It was built on the base (temporary building)...unclear if on base in movie....otherwise....movie
7. Movie....and he was still flying the same plane, so I choose to assume it checked out ok.
8. Probably one of the more cringe moments...but that shot was real. Darkstar was CGI'd over a real F-18. Cain added after obviously.
9. Armored flight deck, damage likley would have been minimal....net crash landing was easily the best option they had because you can't risk the canopy jamming or failing to jettison on a water landing. Odds are they go down with it.
10. That's not far fetched at all....if it's on alert. After that attack, everything is in chaos and personal KIA or scattered...not that hard to believe they would have gone unnoticed. There are 2 real life occasions I know of where a pilot snuck on a base and stole a plane to escape.

Bonus: Odds are the Darkstar would have had an ejection capsule to protect from wind blast instead of just a seat. Him surviving is actually very possible. The explanation behind this would probably be too much for a small part of the movie...easier to gloss over and move on.

The SAM used in the movie can only fire 1 missile at a time in real life...so they missed that accuracy.

 

[Mud84]

Yes. Jennifer was the only thing about the movie worthy of a flyby

premission to buzz the tower?

 

[MSUVIPER68]

Spoiler alert: maverick died when he ejected at the beginning of the movie and the entire thing was a dream of his before hitting the ground.

he is the only person that can fly the mission.

he flies it in the same plane as were in his glory days.

he rescues his best friend’s kid.

That plane would have been designed with some sort of ejection capsule...him surviving is not as farfetched as people are trying to make it out to be. Him actually being OK is a whole other topic though.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

That P-51 is Tom's personal Aircraft. He does not own a Corsair.

Otherwise why are you letting insignificant crap bother you. The whole point was that Maverick is the best damn Naval Aviator ever and they had to have the hardest obstacle course to prove that point.

Why didn't the strange football game, replacement for volleyball in Top Gun, not bother you?

As I tell my daughters when they asked me why something happened a certain way in a movie... "It's because it is in the script".

 

[Fritz!]

in a movie... "It's because it is in the script

Didn’t know it was his personal aircraft. Any naval aircraft would have made more sense. Was more of a nudge to spur a debate about the abilities of WWII fixt wings. The sportsball games in the movies was just what you said, a plot device. Thoroughly enjoyed the film when I watched it. Enjoyed the first also. Just after action reports.

 

[RotorHead]

Sure. There’s holes in it, but how 17in awesome is it that NO CGI was used!? But I’m just a dirty army helo guy. Me no go fast, me stay low and slow.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

If you're taking this as seriously as this, I can't even try to explain to you how a movie from my time like Conan the Barbarian stands as a great movie.

 

[Fritz!]

If you're taking this as seriously as this, I can't even try to explain to you how a movie from my time like Conan the Barbarian stands as a great movie.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wouldn’t that be OUR time there, Mr Hand?

 

[Eleven Bravo]

Well, I just finished watching it a few minutes ago on Paramount Plus. Since I’m not an expert movie critic, ala Siskell/Ebert, I found it to be very entertaining. I was expecting Maverick/Tom Cruise character to die, that was the biggest surprise to me. It’s a damned movie, and nothing more. It’s supposed to be entertaining and I thought it was. Why get into all the technical **** and try to crap on it. If you didn’t like it-fine. No reason to take a **** on it just because it upset your “expert” opinions? Either you liked it or you didn’t. BTW, the stats say that is is one of the largest grossing movies of all time. That should stand on its own merits. There’s not an “expert” critic on this forum as far as I know…damn….

 

[DogStuckAtUM]

This post made me stop lurking for the past 12 years and create an account....

Of all the ****** that have happened in Mississippi State athletics the past decade, this is what compels you join? Honestly, I’m impressed.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

If you stop and think about it you can do this with pretty much every military movie ever made except for maybe a handful so it’s best to just enjoy what it is…a flipping movie.

 

[drail14me]

It will all make sense as soon as you realize it was a remake of Star Wars.

 

[M R DAWGS]

Well, I just finished watching it a few minutes ago on Paramount Plus. Since I’m not an expert movie critic, ala Siskell/Ebert, I found it to be very entertaining. I was expecting Maverick/Tom Cruise character to die, that was the biggest surprise to me. It’s a damned movie, and nothing more. It’s supposed to be entertaining and I thought it was. Why get into all the technical **** and try to crap on it. If you didn’t like it-fine. No reason to take a **** on it just because it upset your “expert” opinions? Either you liked it or you didn’t. BTW, the stats say that is is one of the largest grossing movies of all time. That should stand on its own merits. There’s not an “expert” critic on this forum as far as I know…damn….

Air Force jealousy. I’ve got a friend of mine that works on the aircraft at the Columbus Air Force Base. He says all the Air Force pilots take shots at the movie because it promotes the superiority of Navy pilots.

Side note: According to him, a high percentage of Air Force pilots are gay, just FYI. I’m sure they loved the beach scene.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Side note: According to him, a high percentage of Air Force pilots are gay, just FYI. I’m sure they loved the beach scene.

Doesn't surprise me a bit. Believe it or not, the Marines have a decent number of gays (at least gay in the field). During a 2016 deployment we supported a Marine flying mission and had an openly gay dude in my squadron, it didn't take for him to start hooking up them. He said the bunkers at night was like gay spring break! I never would have believed it.

 

[BingleCocktail]

GLAD YOU POSTED THIS. I HAD THE EXACT SAME THOUGHTS. I HATE WHEN A REAL LIFE SCENARIO IS MADE INTO A COMPLETELY UNREALISTIC MOvIE.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH HOLlYWOOD AND MOVEE STARS —- THEY THINK THEY ARE IN THE ENTERTAINMENT BIZNESS

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

This post made me stop lurking for the past 12 years and create an account...I'm not in the military, but feel like a lot of people missed the point of this movie. It was meant to be a cinematic masterpiece made for airplane nerds...it had a stretch of a plot and was never a secret that it would be. The attention to fine detail is what made it so good for me. The story had some slow moments I could have done without, but that was for the ladies. The weapon colors and markings throught the movie, the F-14 start sequence being so accurate, how Mav unswept the wings manually in flight, the breakers in the back, etc. It was made for people who just love airplanes and want to see them on the big screen.

1. Easily covered with the why the F-35 wasn't a viable option. Extensive electronic warfare in the area, jamming, etc. That was in itself a plot hole, but they couldn't use the F-35 like they wanted, so had to make an excuse for it not being there. Tomahawk also would have been vulnerable to being shot down by that SAM array.
2. Wrong movie...
3. Did you see how amazing that footage was in daylight??? Aka....movie
4. SAR was probably not survivable going into that hot zone. Technically HangMan was up covering them, the others didn't need it as only 2 fighters were up and not aggressively pursuing the egress. Situational awareness for the enemy was not great....as I would expect under the circumstances.
5. Movie? Comic relief?
6. It was built on the base (temporary building)...unclear if on base in movie....otherwise....movie
7. Movie....and he was still flying the same plane, so I choose to assume it checked out ok.
8. Probably one of the more cringe moments...but that shot was real. Darkstar was CGI'd over a real F-18. Cain added after obviously.
9. Armored flight deck, damage likley would have been minimal....net crash landing was easily the best option they had because you can't risk the canopy jamming or failing to jettison on a water landing. Odds are they go down with it.
10. That's not far fetched at all....if it's on alert. After that attack, everything is in chaos and personal KIA or scattered...not that hard to believe they would have gone unnoticed. There are 2 real life occasions I know of where a pilot snuck on a base and stole a plane to escape.

Bonus: Odds are the Darkstar would have had an ejection capsule to protect from wind blast instead of just a seat. Him surviving is actually very possible. The explanation behind this would probably be too much for a small part of the movie...easier to gloss over and move on.

The SAM used in the movie can only fire 1 missile at a time in real life...so they missed that accuracy.

Great troll attempt, but you went a little overboard!

 

[docdawg]

I know it's just a movie and we should accept it as such but I must admit that when they were all celebrating on the deck of the carrier, I leaned over to the wife and said, "What the Hell are they doing? A retaliatory strike has already been ordered and launched. Put that ship in warp drive, scramble fighters, and get off the damn deck." In my head I'm seeing that team that celebrates at the end of the game only to realize that the game isn't really over and the opponent is scoring the winning point.

 

[MStateDawg]

That plane would have been designed with some sort of ejection capsule...him surviving is not as farfetched as people are trying to make it out to be. Him actually being OK is a whole other topic though.

Altitude would have been a big factor. A high speed ejection at low altitude would be exponentially worse than one at high altitude (less dense atmosphere). Assuming the extreme cold doesnt kill the ejecting pilot, the higher the altitude the better.

Also since Maverick was attempting some sort of speed record at the time, he would have logically been at the highest altitude possible that still allowed for the engines to produce max power.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Sure. There’s holes in it, but how 17in awesome is it that NO CGI was used!? But I’m just a dirty army helo guy. Me no go fast, me stay low and slow.

CGI has ruined many movies, everything now has to be so over the top. Remember the fight scene between Mel Gibson and Gary Busey at the end of Lethal Weapon? Perfectly filmed, nothing crazy.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

There are more holes in the plot than Vandy's secondary. I'm coming from an AF perspective, but I'd assume Navy mission planning would be similar. My questions (and observations):

1. Why not take out the SAM sites with Tomahawks?
2. We had "eyes on" intel of the objective and it was obviously poorly defended, why not just send SOF troops upriver to plant explosives or otherwise sabatoge?
3. Why not plan that mission for either daybreak or dusk? Dusk would give you enough light to navigate the canyon but you'd have the cover of darkness for escape. Daybreak would be the least opposing forces on duty and ready.
4. Why would you not have fighters and SAR in the air to cover their escape and protect the fleet?
5. Who is Hondo and what is his job? 06s don't have personal assistants. I've never been on an active carrier, but I'm assuming everyone on that fight deck is well-trained and well-controlled, so Hondo is just going to get free range of the deck although he is obviously not assigned to the carrier?
6. The "Hard Deck" bar, it is on base? If so, drinking in uniform would be accepted but not getting wild. If that bar is off base, there'd absolutely be no foolish activities in uniform.
7. No matter how decorated a pilot is or who has his back if he disobeys orders and destroys a multimillion-dollar test aircraft, he wouldn't see the light of day again for many years.
8. When Mav flew over the guard shack and dislodged the roof, the Admiral would have been knocked down at the least if not severely injured.
9. Would you land an aircraft with no front landing gear on a carrier? Seems like that would have a lot of potential to greatly damage the ship and flight deck. I understand the ejection seats didn't work, but wouldn't it be better to ditch in the water and have a rescue team from the ship pull Mav and Rooster out?
10. Don't even get me started on the F14 that just happened to be there fueled up, prepped, armed and hooked up to an engine cart. The only case that would happen is if that plane is on alert and if that were the case the crew and guards would be nearby.

You squids, defend your movie. The Navy did a terrible job of planning and executing this op.

Well they said they have GPS countermeasures in place... so I would imagine anything that relies on GPS exclusively to navigate wouldn't be helpful, like the f35 and tomahawks.

I don't think 5th gen fighters would have an issue with it being dusk or dawn.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

I know it's just a movie and we should accept it as such but I must admit that when they were all celebrating on the deck of the carrier, I leaned over to the wife and said, "What the Hell are they doing? A retaliatory strike has already been ordered and launched. Put that ship in warp drive, scramble fighters, and get off the damn deck." In my head I'm seeing that team that celebrates at the end of the game only to realize that the game isn't really over and the opponent is scoring the winning point.

The deck was empty, they were tracking all incoming craft. Deck being empty means all of their fighters are already in the air, except for H_ngM_n.

 

[Mobile Bay]

I don't remember the first one being that bad? Maverick is one of the worst movies I've seen in years.

It was much better when it was called Star Wars. That is what ruined it for me

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Well they said they have GPS countermeasures in place... so I would imagine anything that relies on GPS exclusively to navigate wouldn't be helpful, like the f35 and tomahawks.

I don't think 5th gen fighters would have an issue with it being dusk or dawn.

Another thing, the admiral mentioned the fifth gen fighters were returning from long range patrol (in reality AWACS would have been tracking them the entire time), if that was the case, they would have been bingo fuel and would have to divert to refuel (since their home base was destroyed) or find a tanker. Most likely they would have not been able to engage as there was no other base nearby (else we would have taken out too).

 

[ThreeDawgNight]

The Bagley College of Engineering ruined moves for me. I distinctly remember sitting in Southern Shade Apartments watching Armageddon and commenting "That breaks the laws of physics" enough times that my roommate asked me to leave the room.

That being said, I thought Top Gun: Maverick was a really fun movie. Maybe I've matured.

 

[llmsudawg]

This post may be the best example of TGM being

Spoiler

a Maverick fantasy while he was dying in the first few minutes of the movie.

Yes, this is correct.

 

[tribaldawg]

I was that ashhole in the minority who, after seeing the most overhyped movie in decades, was vocal about how much the movie sucked and couldn’t imagine sitting through it multiple times as many did.

The remake was way too predictable. It seemed like scene after scene of the first movie just being remade. I understand you have to tie the movie into the original but it seemed like I had just watched the original again.