OT: Traffic Ticket in the Mail

[MSUDC11-2.0]

So one weekend in late January we had to go to Jackson for a family function. Kinda made a day of it and drove around several places. No issues, pretty normal day.

Yesterday I received in the mail a $315 ticket from the City of Pearl police department for driving without auto insurance. This was weird to me on several fronts 1. I was never pulled over or anything while we were down there 2. I wasn’t cited for anything else that a camera might have picked up (running a red light, etc.), and 3. I absolutely have auto insurance. My first thought was this might be a scam but I called Pearl PD and it’s legit.

Pretty sure I can get it cleared up without having to pay or anything. But anyone else had something like this happen? Just annoying.

 

[mcdawg22]

So one weekend in late January we had to go to Jackson for a family function. Kinda made a day of it and drove around several places. No issues, pretty normal day.

Yesterday I received in the mail a $315 ticket from the City of Pearl police department for driving without auto insurance. This was weird to me on several fronts 1. I was never pulled over or anything while we were down there 2. I wasn’t cited for anything else that a camera might have picked up (running a red light, etc.), and 3. I absolutely have auto insurance. My first thought was this might be a scam but I called Pearl PD and it’s legit.

Pretty sure I can get it cleared up without having to pay or anything. But anyone else had something like this happen? Just annoying.

Okay, that is ****** up. Did the PD explain any of the logistics?

ETA Sure enough. I don’t know why the hyperlink isn’t working.

Pearl to target uninsured drivers through initiative that proved controversial in other parts of the state

Pearl will utilize existing traffic cameras to read license plates and fine uninsured drivers.

www.wlbt.com

 

[jethreauxdawg]

 

[SouthFarmchicken]

So one weekend in late January we had to go to Jackson for a family function. Kinda made a day of it and drove around several places. No issues, pretty normal day.

Yesterday I received in the mail a $315 ticket from the City of Pearl police department for driving without auto insurance. This was weird to me on several fronts 1. I was never pulled over or anything while we were down there 2. I wasn’t cited for anything else that a camera might have picked up (running a red light, etc.), and 3. I absolutely have auto insurance. My first thought was this might be a scam but I called Pearl PD and it’s legit.

Pretty sure I can get it cleared up without having to pay or anything. But anyone else had something like this happen? Just annoying.

Just another reason to avoid Pearl.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

That really is some straight garbage. How is that legal?
Big government and big brother tag teaming on this one**

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Yeah that's weird. Now - I absolutely think folks should have to have insurance if that's the law. But this is like a money grab. There has to be some level of live and let live out there.

During 2020 I was 100% on the side of the police. But I will say that if there's a place where the police are overaggressive and power hungry, it is Skankin Rankin. They dang near leveled that house in Crossgates last year when that guy was holed up in there with his girlfriend or whatever. They routinely get up on the hills and give seatbelt tickets. It's just constant.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

There's been a lot of complaints about similar issues with the Pearl insurance cameras. Jxn tried red-light cameras many years ago, but eventually it was decided that it went against state law. Hopefully the legislature will act on this and do away with it.

 

[mcdawg22]

Yeah that's weird. Now - I absolutely think folks should have to have insurance if that's the law. But this is like a money grab. There has to be some level of live and let live out there.

During 2020 I was 100% on the side of the police. But I will say that if there's a place where the police are overaggressive and power hungry, it is Skankin Rankin. They dang near leveled that house in Crossgates last year when that guy was holed up in there with his girlfriend or whatever. They routinely get up on the hills and give seatbelt tickets. It's just constant.

Seatbelt laws are hilarious to me holistically and that is coming from someone that always wears a seatbelt. If I ever got pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt by a motorcycle cop I’d have questions.

 

[MStateDawg]

This was announced back in December: https://www.wapt.com/article/pearl-mississippi-uninsured-drivers-technology/46031642

The company that is providing the technology was previously employed by Ocean Springs, MS. It was a massive failure and there were so many complaints and lawsuits against Ocean Springs, that they eventually fired the company and ended the program. The mayor of Pearl (who is a total moron) decided it would be a good idea to deploy this same system despite the issues this company had on the coast. I'm sure it wont last too long. There just no way the system can be reasonably accurate.

 

[Xenomorph]

Seatbelt laws are hilarious to me holistically and that is coming from someone that always wears a seatbelt. If I ever got pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt by a motorcycle cop I’d have questions.

We are a nation that allows you to smoke cigarettes in the car but demands you wear a seat belt while doing so.

 

[kired]

Just another reason to avoid Pearl.

Do cities not understand this? I purposely avoid places that have crap like this and red light cameras. I absolutely would never consider moving to a place like that. They started talking about red light cameras in Tupelo 10-15 years ago and that got shut down real quick.

I guess if the goal is to piss people off and discourage them from visiting your town, go right ahead.

 

[SouthFarmchicken]

Do cities not understand this? I purposely avoid places that have crap like this and red light cameras. I absolutely would never consider moving to a place like that. They started talking about red light cameras in Tupelo 10-15 years ago and that got shut down real quick.

I guess if the goal is to piss people off and discourage them from visiting your town, go right ahead.

True story. I was living in Boulder in school at the time. It was about two weeks before graduation and I was driving to school on a back way (ie not heavily traveled). There was what looked like a VW hippie van on the street about 4 car lengths before a light. Apparently, I ran a stale yellow. Turns out the hippie van had a camera in it.

I moved remember? About an hour away from Boulder. About 3 months later, only my wife was at home. Two deputies showed up at our front door and served her a summons for me to appear in court for a $35 ticket. Government has lost their mind.

One of my professors was also arrested (for the exact same thing) while representing someone in court. A $35 ticket she didn’t realize she had.

 

[GloryDawg]

Go talk to the Police Chief and ask him what happened. If it went down like you said the City of Pearl violated the state constitution. Our State Supreme Court shot that crap down when Jackson tried it.

 

[johnson86-1]

That really is some straight garbage. How is that legal?
Big government and big brother tag teaming on this one**

I'm perfectly fine with that (well, maybe not perfectly), but Pearl should be hit with triple the fees when they get it wrong for hassling people.

 

[johnson86-1]

Seatbelt laws are hilarious to me holistically and that is coming from someone that always wears a seatbelt. If I ever got pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt by a motorcycle cop I’d have questions.

While it was not and is not sold that way, seatbelts requirements, at least for drivers, are actually a safety issue for other people, not just the driver. A relatively minor accident can turn major if the driver is in the passenger seat floorboard rather than trying to control the car/truck.

 

[GloryDawg]

Do cities not understand this? I purposely avoid places that have crap like this and red light cameras. I absolutely would never consider moving to a place like that. They started talking about red light cameras in Tupelo 10-15 years ago and that got shut down real quick.

I guess if the goal is to piss people off and discourage them from visiting your town, go right ahead.

I- 20 from the City Limits of Jackson all the way through the East Brandon exit has cameras. My son was involved in a hit and run. That camera over Airport Road over pass filmed it and they caught that guy. His insurance paid. I have no problem with the cameras, but the State Supreme Court ruled it could not be used to write tickets. It for determining which driver caused the accident and helping investigators figure out what happened in major car accidents.

 

[pseudonym]

I would never live/invest in a community that does things like this.

If I had a business in Pearl, I would relocate and let them know why.

 

[Xenomorph]

They started talking about red light cameras in Tupelo 10-15 years ago and that got shut down real quick.

Several years ago I got a camera ticket in the mail from the 45 & 64 intersection in Selmer, TN. I laughed and put it in File 13. Those are completely unenforceable.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

I- 20 from the City Limits of Jackson all the way through the East Brandon exit has cameras. My son was involved in a hit and run. That camera over Airport Road over pass filmed it and they caught that guy. His insurance paid. I have no problem with the cameras, but the State Supreme Court ruled it could not be used to write tickets. It for determining which driver caused the accident and helping investigators figure out what happened in major car accidents.

Airport Road is where they “caught” me as well.

 

[thatsbaseball]

This is the real fallacy of Mississippi car insurance. If you've ever been involved in an accident where one of these minimally insured motorist is at fault you know what I mean.


"The minimum amount of Mississippi auto insurance coverage is $25,000/$50,000/$25,000. In the event of a covered accident, your limits for bodily injury are $25,000 per person, with a total maximum of $50,000 per incident. It also covers up to $25,000 for damage to another person's property."

 

[GloryDawg]

Airport Road is where they “caught” me as well.

The police can pick any camera they want and watch the road on their computers no matter where they are. It is also recorded, and they can go back to certain times and watch. Unless the State passed a law allowing it and no one has heard about it what happened cannot happened.

 

[patdog]

There's been a lot of complaints about similar issues with the Pearl insurance cameras. Jxn tried red-light cameras many years ago, but eventually it was decided that it went against state law. Hopefully the legislature will act on this and do away with it.

I've got no problem with red light cameras. Running red lights is a legitimate safety issue. But running every vehicle tag against an insurance database is going TOO FAR. If you're pulled over or ticketed for another violation, then yeah, charge them for lack of insurance.

 

[The Peeper]

Several years ago I got a camera ticket in the mail from the 45 & 64 intersection in Selmer, TN. I laughed and put it in File 13. Those are completely unenforceable.

They still write those damn things in Selmer and collect money even though its unenforceable, just preying on those that don't know it doesn't have to be paid. My nephew got one, brother in law made a call to an attorney up there and attorney laughed and told him to trash it.

 

[Shmuley]

So one weekend in late January we had to go to Jackson for a family function. Kinda made a day of it and drove around several places. No issues, pretty normal day.

Yesterday I received in the mail a $315 ticket from the City of Pearl police department for driving without auto insurance. This was weird to me on several fronts 1. I was never pulled over or anything while we were down there 2. I wasn’t cited for anything else that a camera might have picked up (running a red light, etc.), and 3. I absolutely have auto insurance. My first thought was this might be a scam but I called Pearl PD and it’s legit.

Pretty sure I can get it cleared up without having to pay or anything. But anyone else had something like this happen? Just annoying.

Some context for you MFers. Jesus. The City of Pearl has apparently taken the position that the use "automated recording equipment" to enforce the mandatory auto insurance law does not violate the statutory prohibition on using same to enforce "traffic signals, traffic speeds or other traffic laws, rules or regulations" as per the following state statute. Eventually either the state legislature will amend the statute to prevent the use of automated recording equipment for enforcement of the mandatory insurance law or an aggrieved motorist will challenge a Pearl ticket and, eventually, the court system will determine, once and for all, whether Pearl's position is correct that an insurance violation is not a "traffic law." For clarity, this has nothing to do with the state constitution and the state Supreme Court has never addressed this issue directly.

Miss. Code Ann. Section 17-25-19:

1. Neither the board of supervisors of any county nor the governing authority of any municipality shall adopt, enact or enforce any ordinance authorizing the use of automated recording equipment or system to enforce compliance with traffic signals, traffic speeds or other traffic laws, rules or regulations on any public street, road or highway within this state or to impose or collect any civil or criminal fine, fee or penalty for any such violation.

 

[SteelCurtain74]

This was announced back in December: https://www.wapt.com/article/pearl-mississippi-uninsured-drivers-technology/46031642

The company that is providing the technology was previously employed by Ocean Springs, MS. It was a massive failure and there were so many complaints and lawsuits against Ocean Springs, that they eventually fired the company and ended the program. The mayor of Pearl (who is a total moron) decided it would be a good idea to deploy this same system despite the issues this company had on the coast. I'm sure it wont last too long. There just no way the system can be reasonably accurate.

You're being too kind when you call him a moron. I've avoided Pearl as much as possible since they announced this "ingenius" plan to crackdown on people without insurance.

I worked in insurance for almost 15 years and while I'm for mandating insurance for vehicles on the road, the problem when it was first initiated was that people would purchase insurance, set up on a monthly draft, get their insurance card which showed 6 months or 12 months of coverage then miraculously not make another payment. Their coverage would cancel, which required more paperwork for insurance companies, but they still have the insurance card which showed they have coverage.

I would imagine Pearl will eventually quit the practice, either voluntarily or by a legal ruling.

 

[The Peeper]

My neighbor went to France a couple years ago. He rented a car while there but never drove it, a family member from there did. About 6 months later a ticket for running a red light arrived in the mail from France. Neighbor laughed and tossed it. He went back to France about a year later and was stopped in customs and told that he couldn't enter the country till the ticket was paid. Needles to say he paid it quickly even though he wasn't even the one driving but couldn't prove otherwise.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

I've got no problem with red light cameras. Running red lights is a legitimate safety issue. But running every vehicle tag against an insurance database is going TOO FAR. If you're pulled over or ticketed for another violation, then yeah, charge them for lack of insurance.

Especially when the databases are apparently unreliable. I literally keep my insurance card from ALFA in my glove compartment. Had I been pulled over for something else and asked for proof of insurance I easily would’ve produced it.

But nope. No traffic violation or pullover. Just a bogus ticket because they have bad info about my insurance. Didn’t even inquire before issuing a ticket.

 

[MidsouthDawg]

I lived in North Carolina for a number of years, if you're pulled over and don't have insurance, the officer pulls out a screwdriver and takes your tag right there on the spot AND gives you a hefty ticket...then you have to have proof of insurance to buy a new tag

 

[Xenomorph]

I've got no problem with red light cameras. Running red lights is a legitimate safety issue.

Traffic cameras do nothing to improve safety. It's a pure money grab.

I'm sure the way this process works is some salesman gets to a small town mayor and says... "Hey, my traffic camera system costs $100K to install and the yearly subscription fee to our database and mailing software is $20K. We've done a study on this main intersection in your town and you could realize $50K in annual revenue. So it pays for itself after about 3 years and then you're left with $30K/year profit. Wouldn't you like that??"

And boom... traffic cameras go up.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Traffic cameras do nothing to improve safety. It's a pure money grab.

I'm sure the way this process works is some salesman gets to a small town mayor and says... "Hey, my traffic camera system costs $100K to install and the yearly subscription fee to our database and mailing software is $20K. We've done a study on this main intersection in your town and you could realize $50K in annual revenue. So it pays for itself after about 3 years and then you're left with $30K/year profit. Wouldn't you like that??"

And boom... traffic cameras go up.

Pearl seems to get 'got' a lot. A certain baseball stadium comes to mind.

 

[Braves Dawg]

Do cities not understand this? I purposely avoid places that have crap like this and red light cameras. I absolutely would never consider moving to a place like that. They started talking about red light cameras in Tupelo 10-15 years ago and that got shut down real quick.

I guess if the goal is to piss people off and discourage them from visiting your town, go right ahead.

I hear Saltillo is having these insurance cameras installed there.

 

[mstateglfr]

I am 100% fine with speed cameras issuing tickets because I view that technology as an extension of enforcing laws. We have a speed camera on an Interstate Beltway that cuts thru the middle of the metro and I genuinely like that it is there because it helps slow down the speed of traffic in a spot where the road curves a couple times and there are 4 exits within 2 miles of each other.
Hell, I have even been hit with tickets from the camera and still think it is a good idea.
It only tickets you if you are going 70(in a 60) or above.

I am 100% fine with redlight cameras and no turn on red cameras. Ive been ticketed by a no turn on red camera and still think its good to have at that specific intersection because the right turn is pretty blind due to a pedestrian bridge. Its a law that exists for driver and pedestrian safety and I dont think a cop has to literally sit there in person for enforcement.



^ Both instances involve he technology being used to help improve safety instead of as a simple money grab. Also, both instances involve reliable technology.



Even though I am OK with cameras enforcing driving laws in instances where there is a legitimate safety concern and compliance results in safer transit overall, I really cant get on board with ticketing people for lack of insurance...especially if it creates false positives. Thats straight 17ed up.
Mississippi leads the country in % uninsured drivers, which is an insane statistic to lead in, but fining people that much money only further burdens them financially.
If they had to pay the fine or the fine is waived if insurance is purchased, that would be something I could get on board with(the article says the fine is only reduced). But they really need to fix the false positive tickets. Thats 17ed up.

 

[CDawg08]

They should have to pay you for your time dealing with their BS mistake. That’s what pisses me off. Hey aholes my time’s worth something too!

 

[BulldogBlitz]

Wow. A government entity essentially running a phishing scam.

Call the pearl pd and tell them they owe back taxes and you'll be happy to take care of it for them.

 

[mstateglfr]

Several years ago I got a camera ticket in the mail from the 45 & 64 intersection in Selmer, TN. I laughed and put it in File 13. Those are completely unenforceable.

In my state(county?), if a camera ticket isnt paid, you cant renew your tags. Even city parking tickets have to be paid.
Different situation, but those tickets can definitely be enforced in some ways.

Traffic cameras do nothing to improve safety. It's a pure money grab.

I'm sure the way this process works is some salesman gets to a small town mayor and says... "Hey, my traffic camera system costs $100K to install and the yearly subscription fee to our database and mailing software is $20K. We've done a study on this main intersection in your town and you could realize $50K in annual revenue. So it pays for itself after about 3 years and then you're left with $30K/year profit. Wouldn't you like that??"

And boom... traffic cameras go up.

I can completely see traffic cameras as a money grab in some instances. But in other instances- the safety factor is very real and very obvious.
Long term data shows some cameras reduce fatal red light crashes. Long term data shows some cameras reduce the number of accidents in a specific section of road. Long term data shows some cameras reduce the severity of crashes in a specific section of road.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

In my state(county?), if a camera ticket isnt paid, you cant renew your tags. Even city parking tickets have to be paid.
Different situation, but those tickets can definitely be enforced in some ways.



I can completely see traffic cameras as a money grab in some instances. But in other instances- the safety factor is very real and very obvious.
Long term data shows some cameras reduce fatal red light crashes. Long term data shows some cameras reduce the number of accidents in a specific section of road. Long term data shows some cameras reduce the severity of crashes in a specific section of road.

Tennessee state law supersedes the traffic cams in Selmer. It’s an unenforceable violation because of it. They just do it to prey on people who don’t know which is BS. My dad got one several years ago and lawyer said trash it.

 

[TNT.sixpack]

This is a very hot topic right now and it's not just in Pearl. I can tell you that your State Representatives love it for the most part because it's enforcing the compulsory insurance law. Basically Ms Ann Code 63-16-3 allows DPS to access insurance verification records electronically for proof of insurance. It's to ONLY be available to law enforcement. Well, the cities figured out that this means their law enforcement qualifies to have access to it as well. So, DPS contracts with a vendor who handles this data transfer weekly from insurers to DPS. That vendor is NOT the problem. The problem is ANOTHER company who contacted the cities and offered to install cameras to help them capture tags as cars go through intersections. That info is then given to the city and the city (law enforcement) can then compare the tags/vins to the list that DPS has to see which ones were reported as uninsured or insurance lapsed. Everyone gets a cut of the money and it's HUGE. For some small cities it's tens of thousands of dollars a month. It was a huge financial windfall for Saltillo the first month they tried it. Ocean Springs was sued ONLY because the citations were being mailed by the vendor as opposed to a court of law. The other cities and vendors have since corrected that problem and it's grown to other cities across the state. I can tell you that the majority of your republican officials at the state level, love it with the exception of a handful. But make no mistake, Rankin county is ALL IN - not just Pearl, but Rankin country in general.

 

[Walkthedawg]

So one weekend in late January we had to go to Jackson for a family function. Kinda made a day of it and drove around several places. No issues, pretty normal day.

Yesterday I received in the mail a $315 ticket from the City of Pearl police department for driving without auto insurance. This was weird to me on several fronts 1. I was never pulled over or anything while we were down there 2. I wasn’t cited for anything else that a camera might have picked up (running a red light, etc.), and 3. I absolutely have auto insurance. My first thought was this might be a scam but I called Pearl PD and it’s legit.

Pretty sure I can get it cleared up without having to pay or anything. But anyone else had something like this happen? Just annoying.

Trash the ticket. Seriously.

it’s a civil fine. The police cannot enforce it.. the company that installed the cameras has to. They will send threatening letters and beg for payment. It will not show up on driving records because the police didn’t write and and you didn’t get a chance to contest it.

bottom line… they would have to sue you in Mississippi court to get the payment. Are they going to file suit on you to collect less money than than it’s gonna cost them to file suit? Nope. Because it’s not for “safety”. It’s for munny.

I hope the Saltillo mayor comes by and asks for my vote in his next election. Because he will be informed this jackass move to put these cameras up lost him my entire family’s vote. They basically said “We are 64,000 dollars short this budget year…. So we are installing these cameras to help make up the difference”. So it’s not about safety or compliance…. It’s about muunnny.

so just trash it and the baseless threats you receive afterwards. They will eventually write it off.

 

[Spotdawg]

cSome context for you MFers. Jesus. The City of Pearl has apparently taken the position that the use "automated recording equipment" to enforce the mandatory auto insurance law does not violate the statutory prohibition on using same to enforce "traffic signals, traffic speeds or other traffic laws, rules or regulations" as per the following state statute. Eventually either the state legislature will amend the statute to prevent the use of automated recording equipment for enforcement of the mandatory insurance law or an aggrieved motorist will challenge a Pearl ticket and, eventually, the court system will determine, once and for all, whether Pearl's position is correct that an insurance violation is not a "traffic law." For clarity, this has nothing to do with the state constitution and the state Supreme Court has never addressed this issue directly.

Miss. Code Ann. Section 17-25-19:

1. Neither the board of supervisors of any county nor the governing authority of any municipality shall adopt, enact or enforce any ordinance authorizing the use of automated recording equipment or system to enforce compliance with traffic signals, traffic speeds or other traffic laws, rules or regulations on any public street, road or highway within this state or to impose or collect any civil or criminal fine, fee or penalty for any such violation.

Moreover, the citation is issued by a third party private company out of Georgia! I'll be damned if I will let them issue a summons to appear. This very thing happened to me in Hernando on the interstate in December of '23 and I got pissed. I called city hall and promised to never set foot in town again and if it wasn't handled, I would consider it an actionable position. I also emailed my tag information to the "enforcement corporation" and they hurredly cleared me of wrongdoing.

I guess enough fools will write the check and move on. Unbelievable that the legislature and courts haven't slapped this profit center out of the state. Some slick sales guy is rolling around convincing city governments that they are missing all this revenue that is speeding past their city. (Ask Ocean Springs how that operation is working out for them.)
(update: I was informed while at Madison County Tax Collection that Ridgeland is about to install one of these tag reading operations. Expect all manner of pissed off citizens of Madison County to convince them that they made the wrong decision.)

 

[The Peeper]

This is the real fallacy of Mississippi car insurance. If you've ever been involved in an accident where one of these minimally insured motorist is at fault you know what I mean.


"The minimum amount of Mississippi auto insurance coverage is $25,000/$50,000/$25,000. In the event of a covered accident, your limits for bodily injury are $25,000 per person, with a total maximum of $50,000 per incident. It also covers up to $25,000 for damage to another person's property."

I was hit by one of these slugs w/ no insurance about 8 years ago. State trooper working the accident explained the MS Mandatory Insurance Law to me as it existed then at least.

The uninsured is issued a ticket for not having insurance at the accident and is assigned a court date. Uninsured driver waits until day before court date and goes and acquires minimum coverage from cheapest place they can. Uninsured driver appears in court w/ proof of insurance letter and the ticket is either waived or they are fined $100. Uninsured driver leaves court and cancels insurance next day. So much for that get tough on crime "mandatory insurance", thanks MS Legislature for that token law.............