OT: truck sales from Ford and GM

[BoDawg.sixpack]

So GM's profit beat is elevating the stock today after what Mary Barra referred to as improved supply chain conditions. But sales were down .6% YOY.
GM's truck unit sales are still significantly down compared to every year from 2017 to 2020. Ford used to sell a million trucks and now they are down
to around 640k. And yes, the supply chain woes obviously hurt Ford's output, but in 2018 Ford sold 1.075 million trucks, in 2019 they sold 896k.
GM also peaked in unit sales of trucks in 2016. Wonder how many years we're looking at supply chain issues being the reason for a lack of unit
sales vs. the fact people might be interest in 50-80k dollar land yachts. Even the smaller trucks are doing poorly recently as Ford sold just 57k Rangers
in 2022 vs. 95k in 2021. No way the supply chain accounts for that drop.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Why are you showing us a chart of sales dropping from Q1 of 21' to Q1 of 22'? That time period is the absolute epicenter of supply chain issues for vehicles wouldn't you say? No idea what you are getting at here, but with skyrocketing prices, continued supply issues, higher interest rates, and lack of handouts... Of course vehicle sales are going to decelerate/decline.. Everywhere. Based on the data from FRED, it would appear trucks have gained overall market share over the last few years. (The closer the blue line gets to the redline, the more trucks are being bought as a percentage of all retail sales.)

 

[Big Sheep81]

I buy Toyota trucks so I don't care......

 

[Ranchdawg]

Why are you showing us a chart of sales dropping from Q1 of 21' to Q1 of 22'? That time period is the absolute epicenter of supply chain issues for vehicles wouldn't you say? No idea what you are getting at here, but with skyrocketing prices, continued supply issues, higher interest rates, and lack of handouts... Of course vehicle sales are going to decelerate/decline.. Everywhere. Based on the data from FRED, it would appear trucks have gained overall market share over the last few years. (The closer the blue line gets to the redline, the more trucks are being bought as a percentage of all retail sales.)

View attachment 304992

He's a GM fan.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

Why are you showing us a chart of sales dropping from Q1 of 21' to Q1 of 22'? That time period is the absolute epicenter of supply chain issues for vehicles wouldn't you say?

Is there any evidence the supply chain was worse in 2022 than in 2021? What accounts for the drop? The Tundra's +18.3% is sort of the elephant in the room here.

 

[Hot Rock]

financing is higher now. The feds raised it to slow the economy to keep inflation in check. Seems to be working too. Maybe they won't raise more.

 

[SteelCurtain74]

The Tundra was redesigned for the 2023 model and went on sale in 2022. That probably accounts in part for the increased sales. You might also want to see what incentives Toyota was offering in 22 vs GM or Ford.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Is there any evidence the supply chain was worse in 2022 than in 2021? What accounts for the drop? The Tundra's +18.3% is sort of the elephant in the room here.

Q1 of 2021 was selling inventory built in 2020. Q1 of 2022 was selling production built in 2021. I'm not going to dig through the annual reports for you, but if you drove past any dealerships or watched the news, you will remember the chip shortage. It hit hard in 2021 and 2022. Especially on pickup trucks. Ask anyone who considered looking for a 3/4 ton over the past few years.

Chip shortage headline summer 2021

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

The Tundra was redesigned for the 2023 model and went on sale in 2022. That probably accounts in part for the increased sales. You might also want to see what incentives Toyota was offering in 22 vs GM or Ford.

Fair point about new models but for a brand new chassis with supply chain issues I doubt they were offering any incentives on the Tundra and they probably didn't hit the dealerships until August or Sept.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

Q1 of 2021 was selling inventory built in 2020. Q1 of 2022 was selling production built in 2021. I'm not going to dig through the annual reports for you, but if you drove past any dealerships or watched the news, you will remember the chip shortage. It hit hard in 2021 and 2022. Especially on pickup trucks. Ask anyone who considered looking for a 3/4 ton over the past few years.

Chip shortage headline summer 2021

Agreed, the chip shortage hit hard in multiple industries not the least of which was the automotive sectors. You've got some models with over 50 microprocessors needed to spec out the option sheet. I'm just not remembering any data that told me Q1's chip shortage for 2021 was worse for industry sales than Q1 for 2022. Who knows though...

 

[Drebin]

So GM's profit beat is elevating the stock today after what Mary Barra referred to as improved supply chain conditions. But sales were down .6% YOY.
GM's truck unit sales are still significantly down compared to every year from 2017 to 2020. Ford used to sell a million trucks and now they are down
to around 640k. And yes, the supply chain woes obviously hurt Ford's output, but in 2018 Ford sold 1.075 million trucks, in 2019 they sold 896k.
GM also peaked in unit sales of trucks in 2016. Wonder how many years we're looking at supply chain issues being the reason for a lack of unit
sales vs. the fact people might be interest in 50-80k dollar land yachts. Even the smaller trucks are doing poorly recently as Ford sold just 57k Rangers
in 2022 vs. 95k in 2021. No way the supply chain accounts for that drop.

View attachment 304979

Well, Ford Rangers are pieces of 5hit.

But I'd say supply chain is the biggest part of the problem. If there was an issue with sales and sales prices, everyone would have some level of inventory on their lot. But there are certain types of trucks: The Sierra SLT (step below Denali or AT4X), the Ford Lariats, and the Ram Limiteds....those things sell as quickly as they get on the lot. Same for the Yukons and Tahoes. And the smaller trucks....the Colorados and Canyons, and the Tacomas, are hard to find too. There is high demand for all of those trucks, and sales would be higher if there was more available inventory.

If the supply chain issues were fixed and dealers had more inventory, you'd see some of the prices come down. Like they have with Rangers because they can't sell them. Because they're pieces of 5hit.

But Rangers? There are plenty of those. Because they're pieces of 5hit.

 

[Drebin]

Fair point about new models but for a brand new chassis with supply chain issues I doubt they were offering any incentives on the Tundra and they probably didn't hit the dealerships until August or Sept.

The new Tundras look terrible. The previous version was a perfectly acceptable looking full size truck, especially for a foreign brand.

Sometimes I wonder what these engineers are smoking.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Buy a pre 2023 Tundra.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Well, Ford Rangers are pieces of 5hit.

But I'd say supply chain is the biggest part of the problem. If there was an issue with sales and sales prices, everyone would have some level of inventory on their lot. But there are certain types of trucks: The Sierra SLT (step below Denali or AT4X), the Ford Lariats, and the Ram Limiteds....those things sell as quickly as they get on the lot. Same for the Yukons and Tahoes. And the smaller trucks....the Colorados and Canyons, and the Tacomas, are hard to find too. There is high demand for all of those trucks, and sales would be higher if there was more available inventory.

If the supply chain issues were fixed and dealers had more inventory, you'd see some of the prices come down. Like they have with Rangers because they can't sell them. Because they're pieces of 5hit.

But Rangers? There are plenty of those. Because they're pieces of 5hit.

I did see an article recently that indicated Ford was now selling more XLTs than anything else due to how high everything had gotten.

ETA: prior to that it had been Lariat for quite a while

 

[dorndawg]

The new Tundras look terrible. The previous version was a perfectly acceptable looking full size truck, especially for a foreign brand.

Sometimes I wonder what these engineers are smoking.

My stars, you are right. I had no idea. Why would you make it look cheap on purpose?

 

[Perd Hapley]

Is there any evidence the supply chain was worse in 2022 than in 2021? What accounts for the drop? The Tundra's +18.3% is sort of the elephant in the room here.

Tundra’s +18.3% is largely based on model change timing. They had a major model change that started production in late 2021 / early 2022 with much lower than long term forecasted daily production numbers earlier in the year.

 

[patdog]

The new Tundras look terrible. The previous version was a perfectly acceptable looking full size truck, especially for a foreign brand.

Sometimes I wonder what these engineers are smoking.

Good lord, that think looks ridiculous. I think all the manufacturers made a pact a few years ago that every new model that comes out has to have an uglier grill than any model before.

 

[Drebin]

Good lord, that think looks ridiculous. I think all the manufacturers made a pact a few years ago that every new model that comes out has to have an uglier grill than any model before.

I will at least give them credit for upgrading their interior. Toyota brands lag all other car brands in interior technology but they stepped their game up with the Tundra.

 

[M R DAWGS]

My AT4 that I bought in late 2019 cost mid 50k. They are now going for over $80k. (Thanks government) There is no way that I would pay that much for it now. It’s a great truck, but it isn’t that great. I hope many folks feel the same and these prices will start to drop.

 

[MaxwellSmart]

Well, Ford Rangers are pieces of 5hit.

But I'd say supply chain is the biggest part of the problem. If there was an issue with sales and sales prices, everyone would have some level of inventory on their lot. But there are certain types of trucks: The Sierra SLT (step below Denali or AT4X), the Ford Lariats, and the Ram Limiteds....those things sell as quickly as they get on the lot. Same for the Yukons and Tahoes. And the smaller trucks....the Colorados and Canyons, and the Tacomas, are hard to find too. There is high demand for all of those trucks, and sales would be higher if there was more available inventory.

If the supply chain issues were fixed and dealers had more inventory, you'd see some of the prices come down. Like they have with Rangers because they can't sell them. Because they're pieces of 5hit.

But Rangers? There are plenty of those. Because they're pieces of 5hit.

But what do you think about the Ranger?

 

[Drebin]

But what do you think about the Ranger?

Other than them being pieces of 5hit, not much.

 

[SteelCurtain74]

Fair point about new models but for a brand new chassis with supply chain issues I doubt they were offering any incentives on the Tundra and they probably didn't hit the dealerships until August or Sept.

Toyota sold right at 13k more Tundras in Q4 of 22 vs Q4 of 21 which accounts for the increase in sales.

Toyota Tundra Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure (carfigures.com)

Also, how do preorders count towards sales numbers? Does anyone know? Do they count at the time of order or time of delivery?

 

[The Cooterpoot]

GM trucks are trash. Not Dodge trash though. Certainly not Nissan hot trash.

 

[Mr. Cook]

Buy a Nissan Titan. That way you can say you are buying a "Mississippi" truck

 

[jethreauxdawg]

The new Tundras look terrible. The previous version was a perfectly acceptable looking full size truck, especially for a foreign brand.

Sometimes I wonder what these engineers are smoking

I’m not a big fan of the new style either. Not sure what it is. Seems like the nose is extra long. I dunno, but something is just off. I wonder how long they will keep this style.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Did yall over look somebody ?

Ram pickup beats Silverado as Stellantis U.S. sales drop 2% in 2021

Ram last surpassed the Silverado in 2019 as GM was ramping up production of a new generation of the Chevy pickup.

www.detroitnews.com

 

[Balls.sixpack]

GM trucks are trash. Not Dodge trash though. Certainly not Nissan hot trash.

Ironically, the Nissan Frontier (before the newest generation) was one of the best midsized pickups. Despite Nissan's best efforts to role out another shtbox, it was increibly reliable but it certainly was extremely dated, especially the interior.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Did yall over look somebody ?

Ram pickup beats Silverado as Stellantis U.S. sales drop 2% in 2021

Ram last surpassed the Silverado in 2019 as GM was ramping up production of a new generation of the Chevy pickup.

www.detroitnews.com

"Dodge is a damn fine car. Ran over my wife with a Dodge."

 

[Joe Schmedlap]

GM trucks are trash. Not Dodge trash though. Certainly not Nissan hot trash.

GMC trucks are the best looking truck on the road imo. Lots of creature comforts and lots of tech. Too damned expensive though with very subpar reliability. Who the hell want to pay 75 thousand dollars on a truck and have lifter problems at 20k miles, electronic gremlins galore at 40k miles, and a transmissions that fails at 60k miles? But dayum, the Sierra is definite eye candy. Such a beautiful truck! Might be better off with a piece of 5hite Ford Ranger though if actually getting to work matters.

 

[M R DAWGS]

GMC trucks are the best looking truck on the road imo. Lots of creature comforts and lots of tech. Too damned expensive though with very subpar reliability. Who the hell want to pay 75 thousand dollars on a truck and have lifter problems at 20k miles, electronic gremlins galore at 40k miles, and a transmissions that fails at 60k miles? But dayum, the Sierra is definite eye candy. Such a beautiful truck! Might be better off with a piece of 5hite Ford Ranger though if actually getting to work matters.

I’ve got 75k on mine with 0 issues. The joker will scoot with the 6.2 as well.

 

[Joe Schmedlap]

I’ve got 75k on mine with 0 issues. The joker will scoot with the 6.2 as well.

For the money it takes to get one, 99% of owners should have the same experience that you’ve had. That 6.2 will scoot! Takes premium petrol though, right? I’m serious when I say the trucks are beautiful. I’m just not willing to get burned. If the trucks still cost mid 50’s, I’d roll the dice though.

 

[Curby]

I’m loving the new Nissan Frontier.
The new front end is nice, to go along with better engine and transmission.

Titans just won’t make it. Nissan is about to get out of the full-size market altogethe.

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

I've got a 04 Ram 2500 with 320,000 miles. Motor is still as solid as the day I bought it. But I've damn near work out everything else. I would love to replace it with a Ram Rebel, but with what new and used trucks cost today it's just not an option. I'm either going to have to dead center a few more tornadoes with the video camera rolling or get a lot of people to become Patreon supporters of our chase team. Until then it's the gray dodge and a cloud of dust. The faint red glow you see is my brake warning light on my dash that's been on for the last few years intermittently.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

GM trucks are trash. Not Dodge trash though. Certainly not Nissan hot trash.

Nothing like a Ford after about 30,000 farm miles. We call them rattle traps. It’s like everything in the cab starts coming apart.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I wonder what we will all do when there is no more gasoline? I am kidding in one sense, they I look at the recent laws passed in California (Fantasyland) and their absurd gas vehicle laws.

 

[AstroDog]

What's gonna happen when everything goes electric and there's no big Vrooooom!! sound anymore? All the NASCAR wannabe drivers who drive their loud trucks around small town America are gonna be disappointed their trucks will sound like kitty cats.

 

[dawgstudent]

I agree on the new tundra. I’m not a fan of the exterior. The interior is awesome.

 

[dog99walker]

Just bought a 22 AT4 GMC Canyon. Have bought anything GMC in 29 years. So far, I love it. Got a good deal. 0% financing. When they said it had a Bose sound system, that was all that was needed to seal the deal. Just to be on the safe side, I bought an extended warranty. I will look good on my way to baseball games this Spring.

 

[Drebin]

For the money it takes to get one, 99% of owners should have the same experience that you’ve had. That 6.2 will scoot! Takes premium petrol though, right? I’m serious when I say the trucks are beautiful. I’m just not willing to get burned. If the trucks still cost mid 50’s, I’d roll the dice though.

I've got a 22 Sierra with the 6.2. It's been awesome. You don't have to run premium gas in it, but I do anyway. Just put a new magna flow on it and it sounds great.

The biggest frustration was the chip shortage, which meant my truck didn't have heated/cooled seats, parking sensors, and a heated steering wheel. But they've since installed the chips so all of that is working now.

I've had an interesting truck journey over the last few years. Bought a Ram Limited in 2020 and absolutely loved that truck. But someone offered me more than I paid for it to sell it, so I did that and bought a Tacoma. The little taco was a nice truck but I wasn't happy with it because it wasn't a full size truck, so I went back and traded it on the Sierra.

 

[Drebin]

What's gonna happen when everything goes electric and there's no big Vrooooom!! sound anymore? All the NASCAR wannabe drivers who drive their loud trucks around small town America are gonna be disappointed their trucks will sound like kitty cats.

I found the small penis guy.

Just kidding. Kinda. But everything's not going electric. I know they're talking about it, but it's not going to happen. Not in my lifetime, anyway.