OT- Update on the Jackson water situation

[Junction John]

So they gave a man a fish, instead of teaching him to fish? Interesting.

 

[thekimmer]

Why would Memphis want to replace lead pipes?....

Memphis began a lead pipe replacement program in 2014 that replaces lead pipes as they find them. It continues today. They are also in year 3 of a 5 year plan to upgrade various aspects of the water treatment system.

If they do that who are all of the other pipes going to follow?

 

[msstatelp1]

If they do that who are all of the other pipes going to follow?

Guess I could've used Pb but then everyone would be wondering what peanut butter had to do with the situation.

 

[vhdawg]

It's obvious the fault here lies with all the Republicans...

...who never in 100 years took the initiative to get elected to leadership in the city of Jackson so that they could fix the problem before it happened.

 

[Smoked Toag]

Yup.

You take a bunch of infrastructure that was created due to New Deal projects(those nasty socialist projects!) that are naturally just old and needing to be maintained/replaced, and couple them with regular maintenance that is pushed off due to funding being gutted due to reducing taxes and spending elsewhere, what you get is where we are now- well behind where we need to be as a country.
This is an issue at the federal level, state level, and local level.

Its unfortunate, but hardly surprising.

It's mostly democrat run areas. Don't leave out that important fact.

 

[peewee.sixpack]

The whole process for building infrastructure in this country is broken. Why the 17 are projects 5-10 times more expensive than they were 50 years ago, even in inflation adjusted dollars?

NEPA compliance isn't cheap. It eats up a ton of time and resources. Not saying it isn't needed but it needs to be redefined to a more efficient process.

 

[johnson86-1]

Wall Street Journal had a good article last week about how what’s happening in Jackson could easily happen in a number of other large cities. Many other cities have not kept their system up to date.

New Orleans was one mentioned. If I’m remember right, something like 30% of the water the pump leaks out because of holes in pipes.

In democratic systems, there is always the temptation to kick the can down the road on whatever issue so that it is a future elected official's problem (see Medicare, SS, probalby 40-45 state retirement systms plus a lot of other city or schools or public safety specfici pensions). It's certainly not a solely democrat issue, but once you go down the road of promising voters that future people who are not them are going to pay for things, or just in general that they can have something for nothing, democrats are generally willing to push that type of promise much further, so they are more or less always going to be in charge of polities that are about to go down hill. There have probably been democrat politicians in primaries that would have drawn the line before allowing basic city infrastructure to fail, and they would have been defeated in the primary if they were honest at all about voters actually having to pay for things like that.

 

[johnson86-1]

NEPA compliance isn't cheap. It eats up a ton of time and resources. Not saying it isn't needed but it needs to be redefined to a more efficient process.

We'd be better off without it at this point. We need to build and/or replace a lot of aging infrastructure. We need more reservoir projects in the west that can never be built under the current system. We need more refinery capacity. More industrial rail capacity would be good. There are places where canal projects would be productive. When it can take a decade to get a ROD, you just aren't going to get anything built until well past the point that you need it.

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

The whole process for building infrastructure in this country is broken. Why the 17 are projects 5-10 times more expensive than they were 50 years ago, even in inflation adjusted dollars?

Because you can't just hire a contractor who wants 10-20% profit anymore. Now they have to be bonded, and that comes with major strings to protect the big business insurer, and that ups the risks and costs to the contractor, so they charge a lot more. In short, parasitic capture by big business. It's not like contractors are making 5-10 times more than they were, so where do you think the money is going?

 

[mstateglfr]

It's mostly democrat run areas. Don't leave out that important fact.

It isn't, but don't let reality stand in the way of a good narrative.

My post mentioned federal, state, and local infrastructure.
That means roadways, bridges, sewers, public buildings in parks, electricity grid, rest stops, etc etc etc.

Democrats don't mostly run these areas any more than Republicans.
Road maintenance isn't a Democrat only decision. Bridge maintenance isn't a Democrat only decision. Etc etc

 

[thekimmer]

Yeah, the english language can be challenging to read sometimes.

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

In democratic systems, there is always the temptation to kick the can down the road on whatever issue so that it is a future elected official's problem (see Medicare, SS, probalby 40-45 state retirement systms plus a lot of other city or schools or public safety specfici pensions). It's certainly not a solely democrat issue, but once you go down the road of promising voters that future people who are not them are going to pay for things, or just in general that they can have something for nothing, democrats are generally willing to push that type of promise much further, so they are more or less always going to be in charge of polities that are about to go down hill. There have probably been democrat politicians in primaries that would have drawn the line before allowing basic city infrastructure to fail, and they would have been defeated in the primary if they were honest at all about voters actually having to pay for things like that.

Or once you promise voters that taxes are too high and you'll slash them, if we're being honest. Its not like a Republican anywhere will come into power and raise taxes so they can get ahead of these problems. And we both know Reublicans will push that low rate promise further than Democrats.

Jackson's revenue problem stemming from flight to low tax outer areas is a state issue, that has long needed a state fix. Not that that's Jackson's only issue nor is it excusing bad leaders, but it should be memory holed in typical con fashion.
.

 

[Dawg_4_lifes]

SPS OFFICIAL WATERBOY!!

 

[johnson86-1]

Or once you promise voters that taxes are too high and you'll slash them, if we're being honest. Its not like a Republican anywhere will come into power and raise taxes so they can get ahead of these problems. And we both know Reublicans will push that low rate promise further than Democrats.

This is detached from reality. No, republicans aren't likely to get elected by promising to raise taxes to pay for prior politicians misspending and quasi-embezzlement. But that's partly because most of the areas that are in position where that's what is needed to fix it are solidly in democrat control.

Jackson's revenue problem stemming from flight to low tax outer areas is a state issue, that has long needed a state fix. Not that that's Jackson's only issue nor is it excusing bad leaders, but it should be memory holed in typical con fashion.
.

People haven't been signing on to an extra hour in the car each day to save a little on taxes. Jackson had all the advantage and chased people off because it was politically profitable for a majority of the councilmen and mayor to chase them off. It just was catastrophic for the residents. Even then, it's not like it takes a lot of taxes to collect water and sewer bills. But it takes an administration that doesn't view not collecting them as a form of vote buying.

 

[Dawg_4_lifes]

Can we force the Jackson Volcano to erupt? Maybe dig down and pour some baking soda and vinegar into it.

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

This is detached from reality. No, republicans aren't likely to get elected by promising to raise taxes to pay for prior politicians misspending and quasi-embezzlement. But that's partly because most of the areas that are in position where that's what is needed to fix it are solidly in democrat control.



People haven't been signing on to an extra hour in the car each day to save a little on taxes. Jackson had all the advantage and chased people off because it was politically profitable for a majority of the councilmen and mayor to chase them off. It just was catastrophic for the residents. Even then, it's not like it takes a lot of taxes to collect water and sewer bills. But it takes an administration that doesn't view not collecting them as a form of vote buying.

I'm not the one detached from reality. The low tax era had obvious consequences, one of which being properly funding long term commitments. That's just the easiest thing to cut to cover the shortfall from cutting taxes. Silly to blame Democrats alone for that, if at all. Fact is, we didn't have this problem before the low tax era.