Paul Maholm just threw a complete game shutout vs. the Cubs.
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this year and gets with someone where he can actually put up some good win totals and not pitch in obscurity.
He is only 2-7 this year because he has gotten zero run support.
He is only 2-7 this year because he has gotten zero run support.
Maholm is just not a very good ML pitcher. He's gooe enough to hang around, but he's not much more than a serviceable 4th or 5th starter.
Somewhat disagree and think the 'team' you are on makes a huge difference. I saw Maholm pitch in Camend yards on Father's day ... he left in the 7th with a two run lead ... ended up with a 'no decision' when the Pirates could not hold the lead in the ninth.DawgatAuburn said:
I'd like to see him get on a team where he is the 4th or 5th starter, and I think he would like that because that means that team is doing quite well.<div>
</div><div>Heck, as a Cubs fan, I wouldn't mind having him on our pitching staff as a 4th or 5th guy.</div>
</div><div>Heck, as a Cubs fan, I wouldn't mind having him on our pitching staff as a 4th or 5th guy.</div>
But it depends on the staff- if he's with the Phillies he's a four or five, if he's with the Pirates, he's their ace or number two.
to me on most teams. The run support problem isn't just this year either. He's never been given much support or bullpen can't hold lead.
is that Maholm is the highest paid player on the Pirates. The next two highest are both "catchers" (using the term loosely with Doumit). It's hard to argue with wanting to get out of a situation like that. <div>
</div><div>Left-handers who can make 30 starts and throw 180 innings a year and are capable of pitching anything close to shutouts can do a little more than "hang around" the majors. They can make or break playoff-caliber teams.</div>
</div><div>Left-handers who can make 30 starts and throw 180 innings a year and are capable of pitching anything close to shutouts can do a little more than "hang around" the majors. They can make or break playoff-caliber teams.</div>
There's not a team I can think of that Maholm would be the #2. Even the Cubs. He'd be slotted behind the two aces**, Zambrano and Garza. Maybe the Astros? Wandy,Brett Myers and Bud Norris?
I know Baseball Reference is not the definitive source, but the player comparison chart for Maholm is not exactly filled with guys who were second and third starters.
I know Baseball Reference is not the definitive source, but the player comparison chart for Maholm is not exactly filled with guys who were second and third starters.
Look at the depth charts- Seattle, Kansas City, Washington, Arizona, you mentioned Houston- Maholm is better or at least as good as each of those teams 2 and/or 3 starter. Obviously Pittsburgh. Then there are the Mets, the Blue Jays, and maybe even the Orioles because of Maholm's experience even though their young pitchers have been producing.
And sure, there are some rotations where he wouldn't be the 2-3 because of the talent on the staffs, but most of those are the better staffs in baseball right now.
Heck, I would take him in St. Louis right now- maybe move Kyle McClellan back to the bullpen or closer or maybe kick Westbrook to the curb, although he is pitching better lately.
And sure, there are some rotations where he wouldn't be the 2-3 because of the talent on the staffs, but most of those are the better staffs in baseball right now.
Heck, I would take him in St. Louis right now- maybe move Kyle McClellan back to the bullpen or closer or maybe kick Westbrook to the curb, although he is pitching better lately.
just based on stuff and numbers. However, as a consistent left-handed starter, I don't think it's a stretch that half the teams in baseball would probably pay him "#3 money" based on his value. Because I'm bored, here are your left-handed pitchers listed at 3 or higher on their team's depth chart. (* indicates "due to injury")<div>
</div><div>Number 1/2:</div><div>Cliff Lee</div><div>Jonathan Niese* (Santana)</div><div>John Lannan* (Strasburg)</div><div>Wandy Rodriguez</div><div>Clayton Kershaw</div><div>Jonathan Sanchez</div><div>Paul Maholm</div><div>Brett Anderson</div><div>Ricky Romero</div><div>Jason Vargas</div><div>C.J. Wilson</div><div>David Price</div><div>John Lester</div><div>Jeff Francis</div><div>Francisco Liriano</div><div>Mark Buehrle</div><div>C.C. Sabathia</div><div>
</div><div>#3s:</div><div>Travis Wood</div><div>Cole Hamels</div><div>Clayton Richard</div><div>Ted Lilly</div><div>Jaime Garcia</div><div>J.A. Happ</div><div>Gio Gonzalez</div><div>Zach Britton</div><div>Matt Harrison</div><div>
</div><div>A few things:</div><div>1) The AL has quite a few more front-end lefties (10 vs. 4).</div><div>2) Maholm compares somewhat favorably to the group of 3s while the 1/2s are a clear cut above his stuff.</div><div>3)By my count, that's 26 lefties listed in the top 3 spots of their respective rotations, or less than one per team. If Maholm is anywhere close to a 3, that puts him in pretty high demand - not just good enough to stick around.</div><div>
</div><div>And from a homer perspective, a team like the Braves would pay Maholm quite well as their #5, given that their current best rotation, when healthy, has 5 righties. With someone even of Maholm's caliber the end of last year, they probably make a much stronger run at the division. Dropping 5 of 6 to Philly's lefty-heavy lineup to close out the regular season really took the wind out of the team headed into the playoffs.</div>
</div><div>Number 1/2:</div><div>Cliff Lee</div><div>Jonathan Niese* (Santana)</div><div>John Lannan* (Strasburg)</div><div>Wandy Rodriguez</div><div>Clayton Kershaw</div><div>Jonathan Sanchez</div><div>Paul Maholm</div><div>Brett Anderson</div><div>Ricky Romero</div><div>Jason Vargas</div><div>C.J. Wilson</div><div>David Price</div><div>John Lester</div><div>Jeff Francis</div><div>Francisco Liriano</div><div>Mark Buehrle</div><div>C.C. Sabathia</div><div>
</div><div>#3s:</div><div>Travis Wood</div><div>Cole Hamels</div><div>Clayton Richard</div><div>Ted Lilly</div><div>Jaime Garcia</div><div>J.A. Happ</div><div>Gio Gonzalez</div><div>Zach Britton</div><div>Matt Harrison</div><div>
</div><div>A few things:</div><div>1) The AL has quite a few more front-end lefties (10 vs. 4).</div><div>2) Maholm compares somewhat favorably to the group of 3s while the 1/2s are a clear cut above his stuff.</div><div>3)By my count, that's 26 lefties listed in the top 3 spots of their respective rotations, or less than one per team. If Maholm is anywhere close to a 3, that puts him in pretty high demand - not just good enough to stick around.</div><div>
</div><div>And from a homer perspective, a team like the Braves would pay Maholm quite well as their #5, given that their current best rotation, when healthy, has 5 righties. With someone even of Maholm's caliber the end of last year, they probably make a much stronger run at the division. Dropping 5 of 6 to Philly's lefty-heavy lineup to close out the regular season really took the wind out of the team headed into the playoffs.</div>
The fact that Maholm is left handed and is pretty consistent increases his value a little bit.
Personally, I think his numbers would improve if he was on a good team- not just wins, which is kind of obvious, but when a pitcher is getting run support and they aren't behind, it changes how they pitch. And that would also increase his value because in theory, he would have better numbers.
Personally, I think his numbers would improve if he was on a good team- not just wins, which is kind of obvious, but when a pitcher is getting run support and they aren't behind, it changes how they pitch. And that would also increase his value because in theory, he would have better numbers.
Seattle has Felix and Pineda and as of late, Bedard. At best, Maholm is their 4, although Vargas is in there.
KC - not much going on there. A bunch of 3s and 4s. Hochaver, Davies, etc. Maholm fits in, but is not substantially better.
Washington - Obviously the problem there is Strasburg being hurt, but with Strasburg and Jordan Zimmerman, Maholm is in the mix with Livan, Lannan and Marquis for a rotation spot.
Arizona I have no idea. Ian Kennedy and Daniel Hudson are the only two I can think of. Hudson has more upside than Kennedy or Maholm.
Mets - that's not a major league team. Santana, if he ever gets healthy. Pelfrey. Dickey. Who else do they even throw?
Blue Jays? Morrow and Romero are substantially better than Maholm and Drabek is just as good and probably five years younger.
I would not mind Maholm being traded from Pittsburgh, but for once the Bucs are actually decent, so that's not really an excuse any more. Every pitcher loses games to the pen. There's no telling how many the combination of Bobby Cox and the Braves pen cost Maddux and Glavine, but they were good enough to take care of business on their own most of the time, so you didn't hear about it a lot. Is there a stat anywhere that says how many games the bullpen blew for starters? Not that wins are the defining stat, but that seems to be a reason people give for Maholm's struggles.
KC - not much going on there. A bunch of 3s and 4s. Hochaver, Davies, etc. Maholm fits in, but is not substantially better.
Washington - Obviously the problem there is Strasburg being hurt, but with Strasburg and Jordan Zimmerman, Maholm is in the mix with Livan, Lannan and Marquis for a rotation spot.
Arizona I have no idea. Ian Kennedy and Daniel Hudson are the only two I can think of. Hudson has more upside than Kennedy or Maholm.
Mets - that's not a major league team. Santana, if he ever gets healthy. Pelfrey. Dickey. Who else do they even throw?
Blue Jays? Morrow and Romero are substantially better than Maholm and Drabek is just as good and probably five years younger.
I would not mind Maholm being traded from Pittsburgh, but for once the Bucs are actually decent, so that's not really an excuse any more. Every pitcher loses games to the pen. There's no telling how many the combination of Bobby Cox and the Braves pen cost Maddux and Glavine, but they were good enough to take care of business on their own most of the time, so you didn't hear about it a lot. Is there a stat anywhere that says how many games the bullpen blew for starters? Not that wins are the defining stat, but that seems to be a reason people give for Maholm's struggles.
that ties games lost because of the bullpen directly back to the starter.
The only thing is the relief pitcher gets a blown save or a loss and etc. But none of that goes back to the starter.
I'm sure someone will come up with one before long though. Maybe they could call them facepalms? FP's?
Actually, with seven losses, that doesn't scream "the bullpen is blowing games" to me. I've always thought of wins and losses being almmost as much about how good your team is than anything. With an ERA of 3.18, and a record of 2-7- that tells me has hasn't gotten a lot of run support this year, just at a glane without looking really going into a lot of detail.
Maholm's ERA is comparable at this time to guys like Felix Hernandez and CC Sabathia for whatever that's worth. He's tied for 14th in the National League.
The only thing is the relief pitcher gets a blown save or a loss and etc. But none of that goes back to the starter.
I'm sure someone will come up with one before long though. Maybe they could call them facepalms? FP's?
Actually, with seven losses, that doesn't scream "the bullpen is blowing games" to me. I've always thought of wins and losses being almmost as much about how good your team is than anything. With an ERA of 3.18, and a record of 2-7- that tells me has hasn't gotten a lot of run support this year, just at a glane without looking really going into a lot of detail.
Maholm's ERA is comparable at this time to guys like Felix Hernandez and CC Sabathia for whatever that's worth. He's tied for 14th in the National League.