Penn State - Nebraska dual thread
- Thread starter Tom McAndrew
- Start date
Hamiti didn’t look great vs Iowa earlier. Mesenbrink for B10 165 lb champion!
If Mitchell wrestles smart and don’t let his emotions get too involved where he make’s mistakes he’ll be tough to beat. He definitely needs to work on getting off the bottom during the next couple weeks before the Big Ten tournament in Maryland. Love his passion just needs controlled
Bernie is learning that the B1G is a lot different than wrestling out west. He’ll excel at Nationals…. No worries at 184. Shunk fought hard and prevented bonus pts. Gritty. Davis appears to have hit the freshmen wall but he wrestled a 23 yr old. Rest him vs. edinboro. Kasak is just a freshman, too. Did well vs. #1. Top six guys are relentless.
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I feel the same about Davis. Being a true freshman and wrestling a full season in the Big Ten is grueling. I agree, rest him vs Edinboro. Give Steen or Howard the match. Was thinking give Messinbrink the day off just to make sure he’s healthy and go with the BearClaw. Messinbrink looked fine after the match, but who knows how he felt after the adrenaline wore off.
There is talk out there that Beau will not be back next year and Kasak will be very good at 141.
Yes. As mentioned when Bernie had that good bear hug in the 2nd period I have no clue why he did not simply front trip him right to Pintos back for a 6 point throw. Everyone in my section down low was yelling trip. Oh well he’ll see him soon again. Bernie Must get more aggressive and mean and nasty on the mat or he may have trouble. Still time for him to listen and tweak a few things. I’ll be pulling for him. When he’s aggressive he’s AA material….
So I've yet to watch my DVR recording of the match. But from Twitter, it appears that there was some controversy in the dual.
My comments, as a ref, on the "controversy"
Potentially Dangerous calls are supposed to be made whenever the ref feels an action can lead to a potential injury. Most commonly (not always) they are made if a joint is being pressured in a direction that is contrary to how it normally goes.
A ref SHOULD NOT consider if a TD is about to happen, or criteria for back points are about to be met, when evaluating whether or not to call PD. FWIW, I had 3 or 4 PD calls in yesterday's tournament where a wrestler was about to get a TD, or about to turn a wrestler, and I called PD in every situation. The one TD call was, interestingly, pretty similar to the call that seems to have Mineo and Willie so bothered. (The others were tilts.)
The ref in the Bartlett - Hardy match was 100% correct to call PD when he did. Hardy was pressuring Bartlett's knee joint outward. Refs watch for that, and will give a little bit of leeway with the pressure, but not a lot, as the movement is contrary to how the joint moves, and will almost always result in injury.
Ryan King's tweet, to which Willie responded, is incorrect. The call is PD because a potentially dangerous situation was noticed by the ref and not stopped by the wrestler causing it (Hardy). That the opposing wrestler (Bartlett) took an injury timeout after the PD stoppage is secondary, and happened after the PD stoppage. That situation does not allow the ref to award an imminent TD due to an injury stoppage.
I take real exception to Willie's tweet that:
"It was horrendous. Second angle clearly showed how absolutely asinine it is.
A this point, refs can literally influence a match at any time."
The ref made the correct call to prevent an injury. Every angle of the replay shows the call is correct. It's immaterial if Hardy would have scored the TD without the potentially dangerous situation, or that it took place late in a close match. Refs really don't influence a match all that much -- they just call things by the rules, and let things play out. That some calls are right at the buzzer, or are really, really close as to whether it's a TD or OOB, or a pin or not, or in NF criteria or not, are judgement calls made to the absolute best of the ref's ability, in the split second they have to make the call. The refs are human, and don't get every single call correct, but good refs (which pretty much all of the college refs are), get the overwhelming majority of the calls correct.
Potentially Dangerous calls are supposed to be made whenever the ref feels an action can lead to a potential injury. Most commonly (not always) they are made if a joint is being pressured in a direction that is contrary to how it normally goes.
A ref SHOULD NOT consider if a TD is about to happen, or criteria for back points are about to be met, when evaluating whether or not to call PD. FWIW, I had 3 or 4 PD calls in yesterday's tournament where a wrestler was about to get a TD, or about to turn a wrestler, and I called PD in every situation. The one TD call was, interestingly, pretty similar to the call that seems to have Mineo and Willie so bothered. (The others were tilts.)
The ref in the Bartlett - Hardy match was 100% correct to call PD when he did. Hardy was pressuring Bartlett's knee joint outward. Refs watch for that, and will give a little bit of leeway with the pressure, but not a lot, as the movement is contrary to how the joint moves, and will almost always result in injury.
Ryan King's tweet, to which Willie responded, is incorrect. The call is PD because a potentially dangerous situation was noticed by the ref and not stopped by the wrestler causing it (Hardy). That the opposing wrestler (Bartlett) took an injury timeout after the PD stoppage is secondary, and happened after the PD stoppage. That situation does not allow the ref to award an imminent TD due to an injury stoppage.
I take real exception to Willie's tweet that:
"It was horrendous. Second angle clearly showed how absolutely asinine it is.
A this point, refs can literally influence a match at any time."
The ref made the correct call to prevent an injury. Every angle of the replay shows the call is correct. It's immaterial if Hardy would have scored the TD without the potentially dangerous situation, or that it took place late in a close match. Refs really don't influence a match all that much -- they just call things by the rules, and let things play out. That some calls are right at the buzzer, or are really, really close as to whether it's a TD or OOB, or a pin or not, or in NF criteria or not, are judgement calls made to the absolute best of the ref's ability, in the split second they have to make the call. The refs are human, and don't get every single call correct, but good refs (which pretty much all of the college refs are), get the overwhelming majority of the calls correct.
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I watched the replay numerous times, at first I thought hardy got robbed, but if you watch closely Bartlett had his hands clearly locked around hardy's leg only breaking the grip when he though he was going to injure his leg. If I was in the hunt for a national title and thought my knee was going to go I would break my grip too. I really don't think Bartlett was concerned about giving up the takedown.
The video I watched had no sound so it is hard to tell if Bartlett broke his grip before or after the ref blew the whistle.
The video I watched had no sound so it is hard to tell if Bartlett broke his grip before or after the ref blew the whistle.
When you say "as a ref" everybody on this board is instantly more knowledgeable about wrestling than you.
You think we actually believe the refs know the rules?
You should have said, "as a person with an 'X' account. Way more credibility there.
I was at the match down low. Bartlett screamed because he tweaked his knee. That’s why he got the injury time. Bartlett pretty much dominated the match anyway
My favorite was Mineo saying "especially when you have two flexible scramblers out there putting themselves in these positions." So he's not only complaining about inconsistency with refs, but also for refs to have a sliding scale based on how flexible a wrestler is.
Listen, I'm not an expert, but I would just love for these supposed wrestling media experts to actually get a current or former ref on their little shows. They pi$$ and moan that they don't understand the rules based on the ref's calls, so why not actually ask a ref?
Listen, I'm not an expert, but I would just love for these supposed wrestling media experts to actually get a current or former ref on their little shows. They pi$$ and moan that they don't understand the rules based on the ref's calls, so why not actually ask a ref?
I think people forget these are college kids and this is just a sport. Safety of the kids comes first. When they go mma or freestyle I would think the standard may change. But until then safety needs to come first whether we like it or not. And whether it works to our benefit or not.
He took one too many hits to the head while getting his a** kicked in MMA.
To clarify the clarification, as a person with an "X" account, "FORMERLY KNOWN AS TWITTER", is the appropriate terminology.
Fortunately for you, while you are out helping the youth and your community by being a ref, I am investing my time watching and reading stupid things on X, formerly known as Twitter, while commenting on each and every one of them, IN ALL CAPS, BTW.
The cameras instantly went to the Nebraska bench and they were pitching an absolute fit.
Well, the Nebraska bench was pitching an absolute fit the ENTIRE dual.
Bigger issue is that, unlike football, where gruesome injuries happen in a flash, in wrestling, they are often happening in slow motion, and the refs have the opportunity to intervene, and thankfully do…. I hear “Keep it legal” with every arm bar, and they watch these scrambles where guys have each other’s legs very carefully, and usually stop a dangerous angle in time.
While I have no inside information, I would think that a situation like this, in practice, is likely what happened to SVN knee.
Certainly no expertise on my part either but to claim "two flexible scramblers" should be allowed to bend each other any which way is crazy. I don't care how flexible someone may seem, a knee can only safely bend in one direction. Tom's post above is insightful and informative for guys like me. Calling PD after an injury occurs make the rule pointless. "Potentially" is the key. Better safe than ruin someone's career.
No. As Cael said today SVN has been having trouble with that knee for a couple years now. Perhaps it got worse in practice. I’m just glad he had the ACL fixed and is ahead of schedule for next season now. Geez if we can get Bartlett to stay his final season along with Kerk our team is going to be insane. Most likely the best team Cael and staff ever had. Bartlett and Kerk will wrestle if a couple of our wrestling donors step up like they did for RBY and Carter. Gonna be interesting and fun. Iowa fan’s will be flipping out if we all get our way. lol
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