Penn State offers buyouts to branch campus employees

[Keyser Soze 16802]

The writing is on the wall....years too late but better late than never

https://www.statecollege.com/articl...-campus-employees-to-resign-amid-budget-cuts/

 

[PSUSignore]

A year's pay for employees that only need 1 year of employment to qualify is a hell of a severance package offer, incredibly generous.

 

[Keyser Soze 16802]

A year's pay for employees that only need 1 year of employment to qualify is a hell of a severance package offer, incredibly generous.

One could make the case that the amount should somehow factor in the length of one's employment

 

[PSUSignore]

One could make the case that the amount should somehow factor in the length of one's employment

That's typically how it works in the private sector. My company would give 2 months plus one additional week per year of tenure. To get a year you'd need to be an employee for 44 years! At that point it's probably an ideal scenario, the severance would basically be a retirement bonus check.

 

[MtNittany]

Maybe they can work at the art museum.

 

[Achowalogan]

Maybe they can work at the art museum.

Someone needs to take care of all those busloads of school students

 

[BobPSU92]

Someone needs to take care of all those busloads of school students

Millions of people annually.

 

[BobPSU92]

The writing is on the wall....years too late but better late than never

https://www.statecollege.com/articl...-campus-employees-to-resign-amid-budget-cuts/

We are better?

 

[fairgambit]

A year's pay for employees that only need 1 year of employment to qualify is a hell of a severance package offer, incredibly generous.

Incredibly ludicrous would be the words I would have used.

 

[WestSideLion]

Incredibly ludicrous would be the words I would have used.

That’s politics at play. PSU is trying to appease local state congress members who will go to the mat to try and keep a big employer open in their constituency.

 

[LionJim]

This is incredibly depressing. Any of those schools close, it would be a hell of a blow to the city. What would Slippery Rock be without SRU, Millersville without MUP? I just realized that this is about PSU branch campuses, same difference, I suppose.

My wife grew up in Jacksonville, IL, graduated from MacMurray College, where her parents taught. (Biologists, the students called them Ma and Pa.) MacMurray went under after Covid and this has left a hole in the city.

I was lucky enough to have taught at a small college my entire career. It can be a great gig, especially if you teach mathematics. These faculty here, if the schools go belly up their careers as academics are pretty much over. Try waking up to that, that must suck.

Well, off to the gym!

 

[PSUFTG2]

That’s politics at play. PSU is trying to appease local state congress members who will go to the mat to try and keep a big employer open in their constituency.

I think It is much more than that.

 

[Fac]

Maybe they can work at the art museum.

Or learn to code.

 

[BobPSU92]

How big a package does barren have now that he has retired from PSU? He must be getting a nice chuckle from this.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

Gotta laugh at this. The faculty complains about cuts when their services are no longer needed. Academics are so isolated from reality. Welcome to the real world.

 

[BobPSU92]

Gotta laugh at this. The faculty complains about cuts when their services are no longer needed. Academics are so isolated from reality. Welcome to the real world.

Has Penn State ever made a business-like decision before this one?

Never mind. 2012. I’m such an a$$hole.

 

[LionJim]

Or learn to code.

Coding is for AI nowadays, pretty much.

 

[psykim]

Not all colleges are isolated from reality. This action reflects reality of less college students now across the country. But many colleges are adjusting well. My undergrad school was at UVa. They have quickly in recent years adjusted their majors-many are combined majors and many of these adjustments are driven by the emerging labor market. Many more are STEM/computer/date courses and the UVa kids are doing great in job market. At PSU there have been major donations to the expansion of nursing program and huge expansion of engineering program. There also is much research in topics like how do you extra minerals wisely to adjust to needs of clean energy. PSU has huge research in energy programs of the future.

 

[PSU Mike]

Some interesting calculus here. How much unfulfilled demand is there for each class of employee covered by this? Facilities folks probably can find something comparable pretty easily, so they may bolt at the highest rate. I’m not sure longer tenure faculty have their phones ringing off the hook given the general state of higher ed, or do they?

 

[Karl_Havok]

The cost to continue your education at a college or university is so ludicrous these days that I get why they have seen enrollment decline. I would not recommend anyone attempt to go to college at this point unless they are already rich or get scholarship money to cover most of the cost. I don't know how many times I have read of people who pay for 15-20 years on their school loans only to still owe at least the balance of their loans and most times more than the original balance. I will repeat that. People pay for two decades on their loans and it hasn't made a lick of difference in what they owe on those loans.

I am not here to complain without a solution, though. I see no reason why educating our youth, which is a net positive for our society, should be done by strapping crippling debt to their backs. I know people get all bent out of shape when literally anyone suggests anyone get a benefit that they didn't get because "f*ck everyone else" amirite? So I am not suggesting free educations.

I am suggesting interest free loans for anyone that wants to attend a college/university. We can jettison the predatory private loan sector and offer people interest free government loans. People can get their education and pay for it 100%. Paying the loans for two decades will actually go towards the principle and pay down the loan instead of going to nothing but interest leaving a lifetime of debt behind.

And while we are at it I want to cancel all of the interest on current loans. This way nobody gets a free education, they are paying back every penny they borrowed while at the same time gives them a chance to actually pay off the loans in this lifetime.

 

[Sharkies]

Not to be that guy, but how does prepaying a year's salary help the budget? Is it because its "one time expense" and you can put it below the line? Or is the idea that somehow these campuses will function without each of the buyout employees in YRs 2+?

Unless these buyouts come with shutting down the campuses, this probably has a negligible effect on the budget overall.

 

[LionJim]

Some interesting calculus here. How much unfulfilled demand is there for each class of employee covered by this? Facilities folks probably can find something comparable pretty easily, so they may bolt at the highest rate. I’m not sure longer tenure faculty have their phones ringing off the hook given the general state of higher ed, or do they?

No they don’t, to your last question.

 

[LionJim]

Not to be that guy, but how does prepaying a year's salary help the budget? Is it because its "one time expense" and you can put it below the line? Or is the idea that somehow these campuses will function without each of the buyout employees in YRs 2+?

Unless these buyouts come with shutting down the campuses, this probably has a negligible effect on the budget overall.

It’s an efficient way to get tenured faculty to retire.

 

[SleepyLion]

The cost to continue your education at a college or university is so ludicrous these days that I get why they have seen enrollment decline. I would not recommend anyone attempt to go to college at this point unless they are already rich or get scholarship money to cover most of the cost. I don't know how many times I have read of people who pay for 15-20 years on their school loans only to still owe at least the balance of their loans and most times more than the original balance. I will repeat that. People pay for two decades on their loans and it hasn't made a lick of difference in what they owe on those loans.

I am not here to complain without a solution, though. I see no reason why educating our youth, which is a net positive for our society, should be done by strapping crippling debt to their backs. I know people get all bent out of shape when literally anyone suggests anyone get a benefit that they didn't get because "f*ck everyone else" amirite? So I am not suggesting free educations.

I am suggesting interest free loans for anyone that wants to attend a college/university. We can jettison the predatory private loan sector and offer people interest free government loans. People can get their education and pay for it 100%. Paying the loans for two decades will actually go towards the principle and pay down the loan instead of going to nothing but interest leaving a lifetime of debt behind.

And while we are at it I want to cancel all of the interest on current loans. This way nobody gets a free education, they are paying back every penny they borrowed while at the same time gives them a chance to actually pay off the loans in this lifetime.

Is your solution to ignore the time-value of money?

I'm not sure I want anyone giving out interest free loans especially if the loaner is borrowing money to loan out. The US government currently borrows money at +/-5%. If the government is then lending at 0% something is not going to work.

 

[Karl_Havok]

Is your solution to ignore the time-value of money?

I'm not sure I want anyone giving out interest free loans especially if the loaner is borrowing money to loan out. The US government currently borrows money at +/-5%. If the government is then lending at 0% something is not going to work.

"Is your solution to ignore the time-value of money"

Yes. We have plenty of money and we can certainly afford to lend it to our youth. We aren't losing that money, we are investing it in them. I am no more ignoring the "time value" of money than people are ignoring the investment it creates in our youth. Our workforce isn't going to replace itself. Our workers in skilled positions are not immortal. They will eventually retire and/or die. Let's make sure we invest in replacmenets.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

The cost to continue your education at a college or university is so ludicrous these days that I get why they have seen enrollment decline. I would not recommend anyone attempt to go to college at this point unless they are already rich or get scholarship money to cover most of the cost. I don't know how many times I have read of people who pay for 15-20 years on their school loans only to still owe at least the balance of their loans and most times more than the original balance. I will repeat that. People pay for two decades on their loans and it hasn't made a lick of difference in what they owe on those loans.

I am not here to complain without a solution, though. I see no reason why educating our youth, which is a net positive for our society, should be done by strapping crippling debt to their backs. I know people get all bent out of shape when literally anyone suggests anyone get a benefit that they didn't get because "f*ck everyone else" amirite? So I am not suggesting free educations.

I am suggesting interest free loans for anyone that wants to attend a college/university. We can jettison the predatory private loan sector and offer people interest free government loans. People can get their education and pay for it 100%. Paying the loans for two decades will actually go towards the principle and pay down the loan instead of going to nothing but interest leaving a lifetime of debt behind.

And while we are at it I want to cancel all of the interest on current loans. This way nobody gets a free education, they are paying back every penny they borrowed while at the same time gives them a chance to actually pay off the loans in this lifetime.

Too many people go to college. We offer too many worthless degrees. Now we are paying for it with the current administration writing off college debt in the billions.

 

[Eric_M]

Too many people go to college. We offer to many worthless degrees. Now we are paying for it with the current administration writing off college debt in the billions.

Not so much writing off as it is transferring the debt to other taxpayers. What a great message for all of these young people: "You are not responsible for your decisions or actions"

 

[SleepyLion]

"Is your solution to ignore the time-value of money"

Yes. We have plenty of money and we can certainly afford to lend it to our youth. We aren't losing that money, we are investing it in them. I am no more ignoring the "time value" of money than people are ignoring the investment it creates in our youth. Our workforce isn't going to replace itself. Our workers in skilled positions are not immortal. They will eventually retire and/or die. Let's make sure we invest in replacmenets.

I think we going to be miles apart on this discussion.

Having "plenty of money" does not mean the money has value. I think we (Americans) are not aware of the decline that has been taking place over the past 53-91 years.

Most of my thoughts on this were shaped by this book. It is a good read and if interested you can find heaps of videos and discussions about it. Ray Dalio Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order: Why Nations Succeed and Fail

I get that education is an investment in the future and therefore it has (or should have) a greater future value. But not all education is the same and some does have a negative future value (jobs that are eliminated by technology) .

 

[HarrisburgDave]

I think we going to be miles apart on this discussion.

Having "plenty of money" does not mean the money has value. I think we (Americans) are not aware of the decline that has been taking place over the past 53-91 years.

Most of my thoughts on this were shaped by this book. It is a good read and if interested you can find heaps of videos and discussions about it. Ray Dalio Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order: Why Nations Succeed and Fail

I get that education is an investment in the future and therefore it has (or should have) a greater future value. But not all education is the same and some does have a negative future value (jobs that are eliminated by technology) .

Dalio is fascinating.

People are so confused right now. Earning more than ever before and they can't understand why their standard of living is dropping.

Do you follow Hugh Hendry at all? His genius and humor make for great video. I love his line, "I stand accused of the things I said." His argument that we are in the 15th year or so of a depression seems on the mark to me.

 

[Karl_Havok]

I think we going to be miles apart on this discussion.

Having "plenty of money" does not mean the money has value. I think we (Americans) are not aware of the decline that has been taking place over the past 53-91 years.

Most of my thoughts on this were shaped by this book. It is a good read and if interested you can find heaps of videos and discussions about it. Ray Dalio Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order: Why Nations Succeed and Fail

I get that education is an investment in the future and therefore it has (or should have) a greater future value. But not all education is the same and some does have a negative future value (jobs that are eliminated by technology) .

I think you are correct in that we probably aren't going to be able to come to an agreement on this and are miles apart. I agree that not all degrees are the same. I would be willing to listen to a compromise though where specific fields and degrees could qualify for an interest free loan while others do not. I think the arts are valuable to society but in a different way than say STEM fields. I think a major part of solving this issue is compromising for something that works better than what we have now.

 

[BobPSU92]

Questions: Why is Penn State bothering with buyouts? Isn’t Penn State too big to fail? And if Penn State isn’t too big to fail as is, will these buyouts save us? It would be quite a kick in the nuts to be small and then fail.

 

[retsio]

Most of my thoughts on this were shaped by this book. It is a good read and if interested you can find heaps of videos and discussions about it. Ray Dalio Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order: Why Nations Succeed and Fail

I get that education is an investment in the future and therefore it has (or should have) a greater future value. But not all education is the same and some does have a negative future value (jobs that are eliminated by technology) .

For those in this discussion -- have you read 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand ? The principles in this book have been followed by some in past administrations and some owners of pro sports. Unfortunately, not many seem to understand how governments and the private sector can or would work together.

 

[Bwifan]

More than long overdue. With the population of college age students about to crash universities better get their houses in order or face serious consequences with cost overruns.

 

[HarrisburgDave]

More than long overdue. With the population of college age students about to crash universities better get their houses in order or face serious consequences with cost overruns.

I see the traditional college President coming from an academic background and I see that changing.

Drexel hired the F&M President a decade ago. John Fry had worked at Penn on the business side and he repositioned F&M during his time there. Now he is building Drexel to another level. He saw the student crunch coming and recognized the same old policies would doom a school.

I would like to see Penn State reach out to someone like Fry when the current President moves on.

 

[BobPSU92]

More than long overdue. With the population of college age students about to crash universities better get their houses in order or face serious consequences with cost overruns.

 

[PSUSignore]

I don't know how many times I have read of people who pay for 15-20 years on their school loans only to still owe at least the balance of their loans and most times more than the original balance. I will repeat that. People pay for two decades on their loans and it hasn't made a lick of difference in what they owe on those loans.

Yes, that sucks, but don't people understand what a loan amortization table looks like anymore? This is how loans work, the principal is back-end loaded. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone taking out a loan and making minimum payments on it. Yes there is a college pricing crisis, but there apparently is also a financial education crisis in this country as I read far too many comments about financial topics that quite frankly should be common knowledge for just about everyone.

 

[PSUSignore]

I think you are correct in that we probably aren't going to be able to come to an agreement on this and are miles apart. I agree that not all degrees are the same. I would be willing to listen to a compromise though where specific fields and degrees could qualify for an interest free loan while others do not. I think the arts are valuable to society but in a different way than say STEM fields. I think a major part of solving this issue is compromising for something that works better than what we have now.

These are the types of reforms I disagree with. Why are you going to reward someone that makes a poor personal financial decision by giving them a benefit that others who are making smarter decisions can't have? If anything the people making smart decisions deserve the rewards as they are bearing the burden of their decisions themselves rather than relying on others for assistance.

 

[Midnighter]

Yes, that sucks, but don't people understand what a loan amortization table looks like anymore? This is how loans work, the principal is back-end loaded. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone taking out a loan and making minimum payments on it. Yes there is a college pricing crisis, but there apparently is also a financial education crisis in this country as I read far too many comments about financial topics that quite frankly should be common knowledge for just about everyone.

It's less this and more about the non-transparent practices of said loan by opportunistic loan management companies.. Almost no one who went to college with student loans is shocked that they have to pay them back and that it takes time and accrues interest. They are shocked when they are not placed into loan repayment programs they are eligible for (such as forgiveness for federal/military service) or are talked into participating in programs that are worse for them (deferment). Some of these companies intentionally take lower scheduled payments (less than the minimum required) to ensure people do not qualify for forgiveness programs (which usually stipulate 10 years worth of 'minimum' payments). Most do not have hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt either - it's somewhere in the mid-20's to mid-30's. We are talking federal loans here folks - not private.

 

[Midnighter]

These are the types of reforms I disagree with. Why are you going to reward someone that makes a poor personal financial decision by giving them a benefit that others who are making smarter decisions can't have? If anything the people making smart decisions deserve the rewards as they are bearing the burden of their decisions themselves rather than relying on others for assistance.

You mean like paying farmers not to produce certain crops?

 

[HarrisburgDave]

These are the types of reforms I disagree with. Why are you going to reward someone that makes a poor personal financial decision by giving them a benefit that others who are making smarter decisions can't have? If anything the people making smart decisions deserve the rewards as they are bearing the burden of their decisions themselves rather than relying on others for assistance.

Buying votes, I mean dealing with the issue of college expenses, should be applauded.