PGA caves... Will merge with LIV

razpsu

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2021
8,486
10,737
113
Wahooo. Knew they had to when liv took so many great golfers and golfers with personality. Watching pga this year has been rough for the most part since it was water down. Players deserved more and now they get it. No different than other major sports athletes demanding what they do and what they get.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dcf4psu

dcf4psu

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2021
775
953
93
Koepka winning the PGA Championship was the straw that broke the camels back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: razpsu

razpsu

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2021
8,486
10,737
113
Ding ding! Winner. These guys come out WAY ahead financially. Rory isn’t hurting for money, but he now looks foolish.
I’m sure Rory will cry but he doesn’t own the tour nor does he have a seat the leadership( mgmt) table. But for some reason, He thinks he should.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: PSU1969A

eilion

Well-known member
Oct 21, 2022
406
553
93
I’m sure Rory will cry but he doesn’t own the tour nor does he have a seat the leadership( mgmt) table. But for some reason, He thinks he should.
I respect Rory. He was towing the line and carrying the water for the PGA execs. If anybody got played in this it was him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wbcbus

1995PSUGrad

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2021
512
721
93
I assume that all of the fans who were opposed to LIV because of where the money was coming from will no longer watch the PGA tour. Also, the golfers who condemned those who joined the LIV tour because of where the money was coming from will now forfeit their memberships on the PGA and DP World Tours. But then again maybe this won't happen because all of these fans and those players are just hypocrites. I guess we will see.
 

LaJollaCreek

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
4,086
8,247
113
Ring Around The Rosie Circle GIF by A24
 
Last edited:

SoCalLion

Member
Jun 23, 2022
84
98
18
I guess money makes people forget 9/11

F them all

Jay Paterno proved that a couple years ago. Many people here like to whitewash all things Jay, but I haven't forgotten that Jay also was shilling (in return for sweet sweet cash) for those no-good Saudi oil sheiks.
 

WestSideLion

Well-known member
Oct 6, 2021
3,539
3,964
113
I guess I'm one of the few who sincerely believe there is more to life than money. I think it is inaccurate to call someone who has retained their character and sense of loyalty "foolish".
Character and sense of loyalty are subjective things. Having an extra $100 million in the bank is not.

LIV players can claim character and standing up for their right to choose what tour they play on.
 
Last edited:

Tgar

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2021
4,953
11,013
113
Learned a new term reading about this development, Sport washing. We probably have not seen the end to what the implications of this move are. Not even close.
 

Omar81

Active member
Oct 19, 2021
221
482
63
Rory and others like him who turned down massive amounts of money out of loyalty and personal integrity should be respected (IMO), not jeered. Monahan, on the other hand, should be tarred and feathered in the public square. And please, out side of the Ryder and Presidents Cups, just say no to “team golf.”
 

Georgia Peach

Active member
Oct 28, 2021
256
431
63

Shep

Member
Oct 29, 2021
92
203
33
When the shock of this wears off (and it is shocking that it happened this early), you have to think about the current state of the game. My points below are about that and not the sensitivity surrounding the Saudi financial support, and that "support" is truly difficult to accept on so many levels.

- The PGA tour was showing a watered down product virtually every week. As an avid viewer, Thursday and Friday rounds were almost impossible to watch as they always try to balance the early/late starts with stars. For the average tournament, some afternoons, there were no stars to show.

- The European Tour (DP World tour) was even in worse shape. Often there were no stars in the tournaments at all. LIV really gutted them. This merger is not just about US golf.

- Sponsors were beginning to lose interest, in some notable cases. TV ratings drop, so does sponsorship interest.

Personally, I wanted the PGA to outlast LIV (which truly was unwatchable IMO despite the star participation). I do think the intention of this merger had to be to "save the TV game". Despite the bad smell surrounding this merger, it hopefully does make for a better product on TV. As someone noted above about Koepka's win causing the merger, I would argue the MASTER and PGA showed us what golf is missing with two or three watered down products on TV. The times they play together is the Real thing, and worth watching.

Finally, the reports are that Jimmy Dunne was involved with regards to this merger. He is known to be of the highest integrity and very, very smart. For him to be involved, there had to be serious fears with the state of the game, and they needed someone who could have the strength, connections, and vision to piece it back together.

I remain very curious on how this will all work.
 

Georgia Peach

Active member
Oct 28, 2021
256
431
63
When the shock of this wears off (and it is shocking that it happened this early), you have to think about the current state of the game. My points below are about that and not the sensitivity surrounding the Saudi financial support, and that "support" is truly difficult to accept on so many levels.

- The PGA tour was showing a watered down product virtually every week. As an avid viewer, Thursday and Friday rounds were almost impossible to watch as they always try to balance the early/late starts with stars. For the average tournament, some afternoons, there were no stars to show.

- The European Tour (DP World tour) was even in worse shape. Often there were no stars in the tournaments at all. LIV really gutted them. This merger is not just about US golf.

- Sponsors were beginning to lose interest, in some notable cases. TV ratings drop, so does sponsorship interest.

Personally, I wanted the PGA to outlast LIV (which truly was unwatchable IMO despite the star participation). I do think the intention of this merger had to be to "save the TV game". Despite the bad smell surrounding this merger, it hopefully does make for a better product on TV. As someone noted above about Koepka's win causing the merger, I would argue the MASTER and PGA showed us what golf is missing with two or three watered down products on TV. The times they play together is the Real thing, and worth watching.

Finally, the reports are that Jimmy Dunne was involved with regards to this merger. He is known to be of the highest integrity and very, very smart. For him to be involved, there had to be serious fears with the state of the game, and they needed someone who could have the strength, connections, and vision to piece it back together.

I remain very curious on how this will all work.
Reports on the Golf Channel are that LIV was running out of steam also. It is possible that both sides felt it necessary to join or slowly die while apart. Maybe the simple question was whether to spend all of the money on lawyers and be subject to disclosure requirements in litigation that would have been detrimental to all parties OR create a marriage of convenience and suffer the slings and arrows. When it comes down to money, marriages of convenience are as old as the hills.
 

RockyMtnLion

Active member
Oct 6, 2021
250
303
63
This will get really interesting on a legal/legislative front. Does the combined tour get grandfathered in on the PGA Tour's antitrust exemption? Maybe not, because if I'm a PGA player that truly doesn't want any connection to Saudi money, where do I play?
 

Georgia Peach

Active member
Oct 28, 2021
256
431
63
As opposed to a sack of **** I guess. Maybe the players that weren't whores do strike, but money drives those in charge of any sport. Crazy they didn't loop in the PGA players.....some real shady backroom crap there. Saudi's are looking to own any sport they can get their hands on currently or a piece of it.


“Tell me why Jay Monahan basically got a promotion to CEO of all golf in the world by going back on everything he said the past 2 years,” PGA Tour member Dylan Wu tweeted. “The hypocrisy. Wish golf worked like that. I guess money always wins @PGATour.”


No PGA Tour member, not even Tiger Woods or Rory McIlroy, had any idea of this developing situation.
Then they, and their handlers, are fools. The PGA response to losing star power was to require the remaining stars to play many tournaments, with the potential risk for injury and burnout. Rory skipping the Heritage at Hilton Head and incurrng a $3 million dollar fine was the tip of the iceberg. Those who remained were feeling more like indentured servants than professionals and cracks in the PGA model, designed to compensate for the loss of star power (DJ, Phil, Bryson, Cam, etc.), was going to tax the players too much. Combine that with the sponsors expressing concern for all weekly events not carrying the "designated" tag and it was becoming clear to the PGA that something had to give. Thus the tour sacrificed it's dignity and word by jumping into bed with the Saudis. While we can moralize all we want, the business decision may prove to be the only choice to be made.
 

LaJollaCreek

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
4,086
8,247
113
Then they, and their handlers, are fools. The PGA response to losing star power was to require the remaining stars to play many tournaments, with the potential risk for injury and burnout. Rory skipping the Heritage at Hilton Head and incurrng a $3 million dollar fine was the tip of the iceberg. Those who remained were feeling more like indentured servants than professionals and cracks in the PGA model, designed to compensate for the loss of star power (DJ, Phil, Bryson, Cam, etc.), was going to tax the players too much. Combine that with the sponsors expressing concern for all weekly events not carrying the "designated" tag and it was becoming clear to the PGA that something had to give. Thus the tour sacrificed it's dignity and word by jumping into bed with the Saudis. While we can moralize all we want, the business decision may prove to be the only choice to be made.
All of which was done without consulting them and compare Monhan's comments 2 years ago to what happened yesterday. I'm not so sure it was the ONLY choice that could be made, but it was the one that was made. The players were blindsided and if you tried this in any other sport without the players buy in....you would have a huge issues on your hands more than likely.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tgar and bohucon

Georgia Peach

Active member
Oct 28, 2021
256
431
63
All of which was done without consulting them and compare Monhan's comments 2 years ago to what happened yesterday. I'm not so sure it was the ONLY choice that could be made, but it was the one that was made. The players were blindsided and if you tried this in any other sport without the players buy in....you would have a huge issues on your hands more than likely.
Oh I agree Monahan has issues with the membership. But consider the potential uproar that would have ensued if 150 card carrying members of the Tour were told weeks ago about a possible deal. Given the political and financial sensibilities there would have been rancor to the point that the deal might have been imperiled. Monahan is no dummy. Neither is Jimmy Dunne, a PGA tour guy who reportedly helped broker the deal. They decided to cut the deal in secret. Think about the players' response. They can complain but what options do they have about where to continue playing. The calculus was fairly simple.
 

Bwifan

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
1,697
3,034
113
Whew.... Rory looked blindsided in his presser... he learned the hard way after taking all of Jay Monahan's bullets that corporate loyalty is non existent. It's all about the almighty $$$$$. Now he sits back and many of his buds on the tour cashed in while he pouts....
 

WestSideLion

Well-known member
Oct 6, 2021
3,539
3,964
113
Reports on the Golf Channel are that LIV was running out of steam also. It is possible that both sides felt it necessary to join or slowly die while apart. Maybe the simple question was whether to spend all of the money on lawyers and be subject to disclosure requirements in litigation that would have been detrimental to all parties OR create a marriage of convenience and suffer the slings and arrows. When it comes down to money, marriages of convenience are as old as the hills.
I'm waiting to see the merger specifics, but my sense is LIV came away the biggest winner here. As disruptor, they had fewer strategic options and would have likely run out of money sooner or later given their huge player acquisition costs. I think the DOJ whispers were also a ploy to force the PGA Tour to the negotiating table. We'll see where the money flows and what it means for the players.
 

EPC FAN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2021
713
894
93
Mariner not royalty cave but certainly major compromise


So much for honor, integrity, and virtue in golf. The Saudis, those murdering rat b*stards, are being handed legitimacy for dollars. 9-11 my arse. Far to many Americans value money over honor. F^*k ‘em all.
 

WestSideLion

Well-known member
Oct 6, 2021
3,539
3,964
113
I'm waiting to see the merger specifics, but my sense is LIV came away the biggest winner here. As disruptor, they had fewer strategic options and would have likely run out of money sooner or later given their huge player acquisition costs. I think the DOJ whispers were also a ploy to force the PGA Tour to the negotiating table. We'll see where the money flows and what it means for the players.
Edit: I read an interesting Peter Coy piece saying the anti-trust issues are now worse post merger.
 

Catch1lion

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
2,423
3,738
113
Dunne on PIF, hmmm---
Jimmy Dunne, the senior managing principal of investment bank Piper Sandler and vice chairman of the PGA Tour’s policy board, said the agreement with the PIF was needed to end the “animosity” and “divisive environment” that has controlled the game for the last year.

Dunne, who is also the president of Seminole Golf Club, was also asked about his previous comments regarding LIV Golf, the PIF and Saudi Arabia. Piper Sandler (formerly known as Sandler O’Neill & Partners) was located on the 104th floor of the south tower of the World Trade Center and lost 66 employees during the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

“Every day the first thing I think about is that, several times during the day, I think about it and the last thing I think about at night is that,” Dunne said. “That has not changed since that day and I’m not alone in that. I would guarantee you that every one of those family members has that same condition. It’s just a reality of how unbelievably sad and awful that day was.

“I am quite certain and have had conversations with a lot of knowledgeable people that the people that I’m dealing with [from the PIF] had nothing to do with [the Sept. 11 attacks]. And if someone can find someone that unequivocally was involved with it, I’ll kill him myself. We don’t have to wait around.”