Prayers for University of Virginia

[mstateglfr]

It’s hitting a new low when a thread about another campus shooting is turned into a political discussion in the second post.

Some people have no boundaries when they are determined to troll. And that is really sad.

Yeah, I should have just said 'prayers sent' and hoped that would actually improve things moving forward.***

Listen, this is a safety issue. I posted that prayers will do nothing to reduce mass shootings and improve safety. That isnt political, but its easily interpreted as political because politics looms over us all.
But it really is a safety issue. Read that 2nd post in the thread again- it complains about inaction and is focused on safety.

 

[preacher_dawg]

LOL. Saying that I was going to the wrong churches is - from my perspective - a cop out typically said to me.

My apologies if I appear to be more a bit blunt here (it's natural though- I do have Aspergers) but you're not the first or last person who'll say that.

Having attended multiple churches, I know I am unwelcome because I am different than many other people.

And the Southern Baptist Convention - in the form of its media division LifeWay - agrees with me.

Few churches and churchgoers are not friendly towards people like me who are on the spectrum (link if you're interested).

Answering your question regarding the different routes.

Chiefly, the answer to that would be varieties of more direct action.

@Ranchdawg mentioned addressing mental illness. That would be priority number 1 on my list.

I'd also advocate for required psychological evaluations for folks wanting gun ownership/licenses in order to keep guns out of the hands of mentally ill people.

Of course, it goes without saying that it won't be perfect but there's a chance it could be workable.

I am pretty sure my church would accept you. Of course, my church is a bit different in how loving they are (almost to a fault). It's nothing I can take credit for as they were like this long before I came to the church.

 

[Walkthedawg]

Yeah, I should have just said 'prayers sent' and hoped that would actually improve things moving forward.***

Listen, this is a safety issue. I posted that prayers will do nothing to reduce mass shootings and improve safety. That isnt political, but its easily interpreted as political because politics looms over us all.
But it really is a safety issue. Read that 2nd post in the thread again- it complains about inaction and is focused on safety.

Ok… so you are on board with the strict sentencing enhancement for gun crimes… correct?

 

[mstateglfr]

Of course. Because the other topics are inconvenient. Stay focused on the outrage du jour. Don’t stray and make the single topic outrage look idiotic.

I mean… we handed out taxpayer funded drug kits last year. We obviously cannot in the least be critical of that. I mean…. Aiding addicts in their deadly habit… who can say that’s bad!?

And I outlined a plan to curb gun violence. And the NRA, who is considered to be the boogyman, would be on board with it. Why is that a non starter? It punishes gun crimes. Why is it a non starter?

It's a fair statement because 1000's more people die every year than they do in mass shootings. Where is this outcry to ban the causes of those deaths? Cancer deaths from smoking, Cardiovascular deaths from unhealthy foods. OD from Fentanyl pouring across the southern border. DUI deaths, Texting while driving deaths. Abortion...and on and on and on. But the far left just has the moral outrage against firearms. If you're outrage is truly over saving lives then it stands to reason you would be just as willing to ban all these other causes that kill more people than mass shootings. The fact that the left is not makes one question their true motives.

There is outrage over DUI deaths and texting while driving deaths. Those are actions which hurt others- they are safety issues.
There is outrage over drug use and decades of effort to reduce drug deaths. This is well documented. In the end though, these deaths are largely to the user and not others.
There is outrage over cancer deaths from smoking. Seriously, have you not been around or read anything from the last 50 years? Smoking isnt even allowed in many public places at this point. Again though, in the end cancer deaths from smoking are largely to the user and not others.
There is outrage over heart disease deaths from unhealthy foods. Once more, have you not been aware of this? And once more, this largely impacts just the user. There is an argument that it financially hurts others, but we are talking about death here so lets not try and equate someone paying more for health insurance because fat people are on their plan with violent mass shootings.


Mass shootings kill others. The things Hugh mentioned largely kill the user.
As for walkthedog, I mocked the earlier post with 'whatabout whatabout' because thats exactly what it was. 1- just because every issue isnt being resolved doesnt mean no issues can be resolved. 2- a automobile can be used as a weapon when it is misused. A gun can be used as a weapon when it is properly used. If you dont see the fundamental difference, that really sucks.

 

[Negative Waves]

Maroon Eagle, I am sorry that you were mistreated at multiple churches. I attend a Southern Baptist church, but I will say that some of the meanest, most vile people I've ever met were within the church. There are many wolves that wear sheeps clothing prowling around in the confines of the churches. A LOT of people will here the words, "I never knew you" on that day. As Jesus said, "You shall know them by their fruit" and much of their fruit is bitter. I honestly think that as the church's political and social power fades in the US, it will get rid of the tremendous amount of chaff within it.

 

[Cantdoitsal]

It's also something said by people who are driven away from evangelical churches by ignorant churchgoers.

You better be thankful that you weren't an undiagnosed Aspergers like me in the times before Autism Awareness who was continuously insulted because you have a slightly different & more logical thought process.

@Mr. Cook once told me that the Jesuits would likely be my best pathway.

But churchgoers have scarred me. I've long considered myself unwelcome.

And now getting back to the topic...

If you think prayer works, go for it but be aware that others prefer different routes.

Fine but there's no need to take unprovoked jabs at those who Pray. What if the thread's author didn't include Prayer and someone called him a dubmass for not doing so?

 

[johnson86-1]

I would love for the thread to be open and posted that already. This is an issue that could largely be fixed, yet one group continually stands in the way and offers up thoughts and prayers as an answer to mass killing.
The inaction and effort to redirect conversation away is disheartening to say the least.

As for me saying 'lock it up', its not so I could have the last word- its because people on here dont want to be offended and face the reality that their acceptance on this issue conflicts with who they claim to be. Its best to just lock it so people can be happy and think their view is best when in reality its continually allowing mass shootings.

I would love to know how you think this can be fixed. Lots of people display some concerning behavior and then go on to not commit mass murder. It's just not easy to have a free society and stop crazy or evil people from doing harm. Unless we find out that something like antidepressants or Ritalin or something is an underlying cause (I'm not suggesting either are, just throwing out something that's widely used), it's not going to be easy. And the only thing I know of that consistently ties all these mass shooters together is a lack of an involved father, but that's not an easy fix either, and it's entirely possible that the father not being there is strongly correlated b/c the same genes that make you unstable enough to be a mass murderer makes you the type of person that's unlikely to form a stable household unit.

 

[MrKotter]

We could stop all this, but instead we choose to do send meaningless prayers and allow it to increase in frequency year after year.
It doesnt matter why it happened- bullying, an argument over a girl, a debt, a failed craigslist purchase- the end is the same- we do nothing as a society and consider all these violent and tragic deaths to be an acceptable loss.

Student suspect in custody after 3 football players shot dead and 2 people wounded at the University of Virginia, police say | CNN

Police have in custody a University of Virginia student and ex-UVA football player suspected of fatally shooting three current players and wounding two other people late Sunday at the school's main campus in Charlottesville as a bus returned from a class field trip, school officials said.

www.cnn.com

Lock this. If someone thinks prayers will do good then they can pray in silence.

Countries without legal gun ownership still have gun violence. Since your dumbass is the expert, what are they doing wrong? Funny how you left wing freaks always jump on any crime that is gun related but are dead silent on fentanyl deaths (much worse than gun crimes btw) and the 20-25 million currently trapped as sex slaves.

 

[mstateglfr]

Cities like Chicago try to put all types of gun laws into place, not really working because they fail to take into account the wickedness of the human heart.

They dont work because surrounding them are cities/states without the same laws.

If your claim about a wicked heart were true, then countries with significantly fewer mass shootings would be filled with people who have pure hearts and lack wickedness.
Are you really making that claim? I sure wouldnt if I were you.
Simple fact- it isnt about us having more wicked hearts than basically everyone else.

73% of mass shootings between '98 and '19 were in the US. https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/us-accounted-for-73-percent-of-global-mass-shootings-57797

School shootings not connected to terrorism are also far rarer outside the United States. One tally by CNN found that between 2009 and 2018, there were 288 shootings on school grounds in the United States that resulted in at least one injury, not including the gunman. The remaining Group of 7 nations together had just five.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/06/world/asia/thailand-worldwide-shooting-statistics.html

 

[dawgstudent]

Yeah, I should have just said 'prayers sent' and hoped that would actually improve things moving forward.***

Listen, this is a safety issue. I posted that prayers will do nothing to reduce mass shootings and improve safety. That isnt political, but its easily interpreted as political because politics looms over us all.
But it really is a safety issue. Read that 2nd post in the thread again- it complains about inaction and is focused on safety.

I've received personal correspondence from Joe Biden and Senator McConnell that they have read this thread and true change is about to take place.

If anyone wants mstateglfr personal email to continue the discussion - pm me**

 

[L4Dawg]

Prayer is absolutely meaningful for the prayer.
Me praying for someone 1500mi away?...thats meaningless. Its a meaningless catchphrase which is overused on message boards and during avoidable tragedies. It is the height of inaction and accepts a result which was avoidable.

As for us being doomed to blow each other up, we have been doing that for millennia, and often times with religion as the justification. I dont want to get into that discussion as true faith should be respected. In order to do that though, it needs to not be brought up.

You just can't help insulting Christians. The sad thing is you don't even know you are doing it sometimes.

 

[L4Dawg]

The students that were shot were all members of the football team.

 

[mstateglfr]

You just can't help insulting Christians. The sad thing is you don't even know you are doing it sometimes.

I said I completely agree there is power in prayer for the one praying. It makes sense to do that. I hold nothing against prayer.
It sucks that people are insulted that I point out praying for victims of a mass shooting will do nothing. They should be able to see that on their own, but if they arent, I will pull the sheet off and help them see.

I dont know why this shooting took place and it really doesnt matter- drugs, money, lies, love- whatever the motive is beside the point. Prayer wont stop this moving forward regardless of motive.
Prayer is inaction when it comes to this issue.

 

[mstateglfr]

So what have you done to reduce violence? What would you say you have done to get off the sidelines?

Here is my question and I know me and glfer have had our disagreements recently, but you accuse people who are offering prayer in this tragedy of doing nothing correct? How are you accomplishing anything by ranting on a message board? Aside from making yourself feel better of course. Why not spend the last hour you have on here volunteering time at a gun control action group or calling your senator or congressman to make sure they understand your opinion. I mean just yelling into a message board about about your ideas is accomplishing something? Most, if not all , of the people on here know your opinions so what is being accomplished?

If either of you would like to PM me, I would be happy to discuss this further.

In the meantime, maybe this thread helps 1 person see that simply offering prayers is total inaction and the issues should actually be worked on. If that happens, then that is good news.

 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

That is the point everybody on here is not listening as they already know your opinion. Again all this time used to teach people a keyboard lesson could have been used to volunteer for gun control or to contact law makers that can have an actual impact on the problem. That is not the point though is it ? And so it can not be said that I am guilty of just talking as well here is a list of wonderful groups that I am sure would love the help:

Home

We are a movement of nearly 10 million moms, mayors, survivors, students, and everyday Americans working to end gun violence.

www.everytown.org

Coalition to Stop Gun Violence - The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence seeks to secure freedom from gun violence through research, strategic engagement and effective policy advocacy.

Imagine A Future Free From Gun Violence

www.csgv.org

Home

Giffords is an organization dedicated to saving lives from gun violence led by former Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords.

giffords.org

https://www.bradyunited.org/

Sandy Hook Promise — Preventing Gun Violence Before it Happens

Sandy Hook Promise trains students and adults to know the signs of gun violence so that no parent experiences the tragic, preventable loss of their child.

www.sandyhookpromise.org

 

[horshack.sixpack]

We could stop all this, but instead we choose to do send meaningless prayers and allow it to increase in frequency year after year.
It doesnt matter why it happened- bullying, an argument over a girl, a debt, a failed craigslist purchase- the end is the same- we do nothing as a society and consider all these violent and tragic deaths to be an acceptable loss.

Student suspect in custody after 3 football players shot dead and 2 people wounded at the University of Virginia, police say | CNN

Police have in custody a University of Virginia student and ex-UVA football player suspected of fatally shooting three current players and wounding two other people late Sunday at the school's main campus in Charlottesville as a bus returned from a class field trip, school officials said.

www.cnn.com

Lock this. If someone thinks prayers will do good then they can pray in silence.

I like guns for range shooting fun. I have guns for hunting. I have guns for home protection. That being said, the difference in me and many others "like me" is that I would gladly forgo access to some types of guns, or at a minimum meaningful restrictions/background checks if there was a chance that it would reduce this kind of crime at all, and I think that stat will tell you that it would.

Others would not do anything unless there was a guarantee that it would completely end all of these kinds of things. Can't be inconvenienced at all. If a few kids half to die, they just do. So long as I can keep my AR15.

 

[She Mate Me]

We could stop all this, but instead we choose to do send meaningless prayers and allow it to increase in frequency year after year.
It doesnt matter why it happened- bullying, an argument over a girl, a debt, a failed craigslist purchase- the end is the same- we do nothing as a society and consider all these violent and tragic deaths to be an acceptable loss.

Student suspect in custody after 3 football players shot dead and 2 people wounded at the University of Virginia, police say | CNN

Police have in custody a University of Virginia student and ex-UVA football player suspected of fatally shooting three current players and wounding two other people late Sunday at the school's main campus in Charlottesville as a bus returned from a class field trip, school officials said.

www.cnn.com

Lock this. If someone thinks prayers will do good then they can pray in silence.

I'd love to hear how "we can stop all this".

Gun control without many, many more details is not an answer.

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

There is outrage over DUI deaths and texting while driving deaths. Those are actions which hurt others- they are safety issues.
There is outrage over drug use and decades of effort to reduce drug deaths. This is well documented. In the end though, these deaths are largely to the user and not others.
There is outrage over cancer deaths from smoking. Seriously, have you not been around or read anything from the last 50 years? Smoking isnt even allowed in many public places at this point. Again though, in the end cancer deaths from smoking are largely to the user and not others.
There is outrage over heart disease deaths from unhealthy foods. Once more, have you not been aware of this? And once more, this largely impacts just the user. There is an argument that it financially hurts others, but we are talking about death here so lets not try and equate someone paying more for health insurance because fat people are on their plan with violent mass shootings.


Mass shootings kill others. The things Hugh mentioned largely kill the user.
As for walkthedog, I mocked the earlier post with 'whatabout whatabout' because thats exactly what it was. 1- just because every issue isnt being resolved doesnt mean no issues can be resolved. 2- a automobile can be used as a weapon when it is misused. A gun can be used as a weapon when it is properly used. If you dont see the fundamental difference, that really sucks.

But all those of those deaths can be largely decreased if we follow the steps you are wanting to take for guns. I would think if saving lives were the overarching goal for the left then they would be clamoring for these things to be banned.

Yes I am aware that the left gives lip service to smoking and unhealthy foods but that is all they do. For smoking all the left wanted to do was tax cigarettes which makes me think they were more interested in revenue than safety. The health risks from fast food and little debbies they say don't eat them, but they do nothing to eliminate the choice or make healthier foods easier to buy for low income people.

Same goes with cell phones and distracted driving. Witnessed a wreck yesterday while doing church security of a distracted driver rear ending another vehicle.

It is only firearms they won't to ban. The only thing out of all of these items specifically protected in the Constitution. Why is it hard to believe that a lot of people see this as a way to cement control over its populace? We did it to the Native Americans. Hitler did it to Germany. China did it to its citizens. Pol Pot did it. When only one side has guns then that side gets to make all the decisions.

 

[Mr. Cook]

After reading this entire thread, I'm glad that those who most vocally active about the atrocities of this act have quit their keyboard jockeying ways and sprung to immediate action by getting actively involved by more meaningful routes.*****

At SPS, we just solve the world's problems, we make sure we don't do one damn thing about it, either, other than whine and complain.*****

Lock this damn thread

 

[OopsICroomedmypants]

We could stop all this, but instead we choose to do send meaningless prayers and allow it to increase in frequency year after year.
It doesnt matter why it happened- bullying, an argument over a girl, a debt, a failed craigslist purchase- the end is the same- we do nothing as a society and consider all these violent and tragic deaths to be an acceptable loss.

Student suspect in custody after 3 football players shot dead and 2 people wounded at the University of Virginia, police say | CNN

Police have in custody a University of Virginia student and ex-UVA football player suspected of fatally shooting three current players and wounding two other people late Sunday at the school's main campus in Charlottesville as a bus returned from a class field trip, school officials said.

www.cnn.com

Lock this. If someone thinks prayers will do good then they can pray in silence.

You are correct. We aren’t doing enough as a SOCIETY. We’ve cut God out of our lives and prayer out of school. Work on those two things and SOCIETY automatically gets better. Remember, the less we govern ourselves from within (morals), the more we are governed from without(bigger and more restrictive government).

 

[mstateglfr]

Countries without legal gun ownership still have gun violence. Since your dumbass is the expert, what are they doing wrong? Funny how you left wing freaks always jump on any crime that is gun related but are dead silent on fentanyl deaths (much worse than gun crimes btw) and the 20-25 million currently trapped as sex slaves.

Oh, we have now brought sex slaves into the discussion. Wow, well every issue it getting its couple minutes of fame here. People are lobbing anything and everything into the discussion under the banner of whataboutism.

On the fentanyl issue, PM me and we can discuss recent work to bring Naloxone to the state's largest school district, if you actually want to discuss it and not just deflect.
As for sex slaves, I have done nothing to stop that horrible activity as I do not know how. Please forgive me for my inaction.

In the end, neither of the two issues you brought up have to do with the topic. Reducing mass shootings can happen alongside reducing synthetic opioid deaths. I do not know why sex trafficking isnt more prominent an issue. At the same time, it is hardly a quiet topic at the national level. If you dont know about the issue being discussed, you are actively avoiding seeing discussions.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

I've received personal correspondence from Joe Biden and Senator McConnell that they have read this thread and true change is about to take place.

If anyone wants mstateglfr personal email to continue the discussion - pm me**

 

[She Mate Me]

I really didnt figure this thread would stay open since its way OT and highly contentious.
But if it does stay open, it could be beneficial because talking on a message board with others could absolutely be more beneficial than prayer. As Preacher said- minds need to be changed. Well maybe someone will read this and change their mind. It certainly has a better chance to change someone's mind than me 'sending prayers'.

It's not going to be beneficial and you are hoping it closes because you can't remotely support your assertion that we could stop all this.

We could certainly stop some of it if it was possible to have honest discussions about serious subjects in this country anymore, but extreme views from both major parties make that all but impossible.

So people with little hope, but kind hearts, offer prayers, because that's all they know to do.

And people like you **** on that notion.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

But all those of those deaths can be largely decreased if we follow the steps you are wanting to take for guns. I would think if saving lives were the overarching goal for the left then they would be clamoring for these things to be banned.

Yes I am aware that the left gives lip service to smoking and unhealthy foods but that is all they do. For smoking all the left wanted to do was tax cigarettes which makes me think they were more interested in revenue than safety. The health risks from fast food and little debbies they say don't eat them, but they do nothing to eliminate the choice or make healthier foods easier to buy for low income people.

Same goes with cell phones and distracted driving. Witnessed a wreck yesterday while doing church security of a distracted driver rear ending another vehicle.

It is only firearms they won't to ban. The only thing out of all of these items specifically protected in the Constitution. Why is it hard to believe that a lot of people see this as a way to cement control over its populace? We did it to the Native Americans. Hitler did it to Germany. China did it to its citizens. Pol Pot did it. When only one side has guns then that side gets to make all the decisions.

And at the end of the day, that's what this is all about. Freedom and protection vs. the lives lost due to the guns.

If we could discuss THAT point rather than getting into the NRA vs. the woke libs, maybe we could get somewhere.

For example, I'd like to see numbers on how many times guns PREVENTED a crime, vs. actual gun deaths of innocent people (not involved in criminal activity at the time of their shooting death). Doubt those numbers exist.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

And at the end of the day, that's what this is all about. Freedom and protection vs. the lives lost due to the guns.

If we could discuss THAT point rather than getting into the NRA vs. the woke libs, maybe we could get somewhere.

For example, I'd like to see numbers on how many times guns PREVENTED a crime, vs. actual gun deaths of innocent people (not involved in criminal activity at the time of their shooting death). Doubt those numbers exist.

If only we had a prior assault rifle ban to point to and get some idea of if it would help...

Assault weapon ban significantly reduces mass shooting

A federal assault weapon ban was highly effective in reducing public mass shootings, reports a new Northwestern Medicine study just published in a pre-print.

news.northwestern.edu

 

[Wizard.sixpack]

LOL. Saying that I was going to the wrong churches is - from my perspective - a cop out typically said to me.

My apologies if I appear to be more a bit blunt here (it's natural though- I do have Aspergers) but you're not the first or last person who'll say that.

Having attended multiple churches, I know I am unwelcome because I am different than many other people.

And the Southern Baptist Convention - in the form of its media division LifeWay - agrees with me.

Few churches and churchgoers are (edited to take out not - it was inadvertently added on my part) friendly towards people like me who are on the spectrum (link if you're interested).

Answering your question regarding the different routes.

Chiefly, the answer to that would be varieties of more direct action.

@Ranchdawg mentioned addressing mental illness. That would be priority number 1 on my list.

I'd also advocate for required psychological evaluations for folks wanting gun ownership/licenses in order to keep guns out of the hands of mentally ill people.

Of course, it goes without saying that it won't be perfect but there's a chance it could be workable.

Perhaps "the wrong church" is a copout. I should have also said that even though I understand now not to put my faith and trust in man, I still am not a church goer. Everyone seems to be be playing "churchianity" rather than Christianity. This experience you've had is a major problem among the church community and is a reason church gets a bad rap. It's more or less a country club meeting where a guy stands up and gives 3 verses and a prayer and they are good for another week. I am not a member of a church at the moment. But it is not because I am rebelling against God or the church. It is because I haven't found one that aligns with my beliefs. Although one of those beliefs is that attending church is not a requirement to have a relationship with God.

 

[wsjmsu75]

"we do nothing as a society and consider all these violent and tragic deaths to be an acceptable loss."

I assume you're talking about the DA's and judges who consistently release these habitual offenders back into the public to commit more violent crimes.

Uh, usually the mass shooters are not habitual offenders. But I do agree that violent offenders need to be kept locked up.

 

[Pilgrimdawg]

Let’s just cut to the chase. Liberal left politicians and many liberal individuals could not care less about the victims of shootings. They are afraid of conservatives with guns. They are afraid that if they push their liberal woke agenda too far conservatives will come down on them hard. Can you imagine what their agenda would be if the right was unarmed? Hopefully it never comes to violence but it is always in the back of their mind. I am a law abiding citizen and have quiet a few legally owned guns. I use them for hunting, target shooting, and just in case I ever need one for self defense. I also have enough ammo to last a lifetime. If the liberal left wants to try to take my guns they are welcome to try, but I wouldn’t recommend it.

 

[She Mate Me]

If only we had a prior assault rifle ban to point to and get some idea of if it would help...

Assault weapon ban significantly reduces mass shooting

A federal assault weapon ban was highly effective in reducing public mass shootings, reports a new Northwestern Medicine study just published in a pre-print.

news.northwestern.edu

I'm sure that's a completely impartial study coming out of Northwestern.

When they started the study, do you think they were hoping to not find a correlation between the ending of the ban and an increase in mass shootings??

Why isn't she studying the complete failure of gun control efforts in the city her school is a wealthy suburb of??...

 

[mstateglfr]

But all those of those deaths can be largely decreased if we follow the steps you are wanting to take for guns. I would think if saving lives were the overarching goal for the left then they would be clamoring for these things to be banned.

Yes I am aware that the left gives lip service to smoking and unhealthy foods but that is all they do. For smoking all the left wanted to do was tax cigarettes which makes me think they were more interested in revenue than safety. The health risks from fast food and little debbies they say don't eat them, but they do nothing to eliminate the choice or make healthier foods easier to buy for low income people.

Same goes with cell phones and distracted driving. Witnessed a wreck yesterday while doing church security of a distracted driver rear ending another vehicle.

It is only firearms they won't to ban. The only thing out of all of these items specifically protected in the Constitution. Why is it hard to believe that a lot of people see this as a way to cement control over its populace? We did it to the Native Americans. Hitler did it to Germany. China did it to its citizens. Pol Pot did it. When only one side has guns then that side gets to make all the decisions.

People are clamoring for changes in nutrition laws, food accessibility, food taxes on unhealthy options, etc. There is constant effort to change diets. Are you really not seeing this at the local or national level? I will say that its largely fallen on deaf ears so no real movement happens. When law makers blame people and take the side of 'its your choice', then yeah there wont be much legislative movement to improve.

Smoking isnt even legal until after 21 now(trump!) and after decades of work it is largely seen as uncool to younger people.

As for texting/distracted driving, really- what more are you looking for? It has already been banned most everywhere and some bans have been in place for probably more than a decade. Work to educate younger kids has reduced distracted driving and has quite frankly made driving with teens really annoying for me since I want to change a playlist thats on my phone when driving.


If you think that US citizens having guns is will keep the government from turning on its citizens, you are straight up goofy. Thats silly talk.
2A discusses a right to bear arms.
- If you want to go with what the intent was back nearly 250 years ago, that means we are all allowed to have muskets and flintlock pistols.
- If you want to go with the letter of the law, then there should be no restrictions on anything that is an 'arm'. We can all own nukes, gas, etc etc. All of it is 'arms' and we have a right to bear them.
- If you want to go with the letter of the law, then there should be restrictions because it doesnt say 'all arms'. It just say 'arms', which can very honestly mean some arms. So 'arms' can be restricted as much as we(government) wants and everyone only has access to a Red Ryder Model 1938 BB Gun like Ralphie had.

Seriously- the Amendment you point to as protection doesnt really say much that is worthwhile on this topic, even though its constantly cited by people on both sides. Any of the 3 scenarios above could be concluded from the 2A and they mean totally different things.
I am curious- where do you fall within the spectrum of 2A accessability? Its an unpopular thing to point out, that its a spectrum since that makes it possible to restrict arms, but thats exactly what it is. Do you support restricting any arms? If so, then why are people viewed as 'the enemy' because they want to restrict more arms? And that position also makes you 'the enemy' of those who want no restrictions at all. Well thats an odd position to be in.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Let’s just cut to the chase. Liberal left politicians and many liberal individuals could not care less about the victims of shootings. They are afraid of conservatives with guns. They are afraid that if they push their liberal woke agenda too far conservatives will come down on them hard. Can you imagine what their agenda would be if the right was unarmed? Hopefully it never comes to violence but it is always in the back of their mind. I am a law abiding citizen and have quiet a few legally owned guns. I use them for hunting, target shooting, and just in case I ever need one for self defense. I also have enough ammo to last a lifetime. If the liberal left wants to try to take my guns they are welcome to try, but I wouldn’t recommend it.

I hope you don't legit believe what you just typed. If you were sincere, unrelated, and just out of curiosity, where were you on 1/6/2021?***

 

[mstateglfr]

Let’s just cut to the chase. Liberal left politicians and many liberal individuals could not care less about the victims of shootings. They are afraid of conservatives with guns. They are afraid that if they push their liberal woke agenda too far conservatives will come down on them hard. Can you imagine what their agenda would be if the right was unarmed? Hopefully it never comes to violence but it is always in the back of their mind. I am a law abiding citizen and have quiet a few legally owned guns. I use them for hunting, target shooting, and just in case I ever need one for self defense. I also have enough ammo to last a lifetime. If the liberal left wants to try to take my guns they are welcome to try, but I wouldn’t recommend it.

Just to make sure I understand, you are claiming the left doesnt legally implement more of their agenda through legislative action because they are genuinely concerned people on the right will shoot them?
Thats insane and needs to be looked at- why would anyone ever think it would be OK to shoot another person for enacting legislation in a legal manner? If those people exist in any amount more than 'just a couple across the whole country', then that really needs to be looked at from an analytical perspective.
Legislators shouldnt legislate based on the threat of being shot and citizens shouldnt be OK with that as a reality.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

If only we had a prior assault rifle ban to point to and get some idea of if it would help...

Assault weapon ban significantly reduces mass shooting

A federal assault weapon ban was highly effective in reducing public mass shootings, reports a new Northwestern Medicine study just published in a pre-print.

news.northwestern.edu

I guarantee you this football player did not have an assault rifle.

 

[johnson86-1]

If only we had a prior assault rifle ban to point to and get some idea of if it would help...

Assault weapon ban significantly reduces mass shooting

A federal assault weapon ban was highly effective in reducing public mass shootings, reports a new Northwestern Medicine study just published in a pre-print.

news.northwestern.edu

For that to really be the case, there would have to be a lot of mass shooters that were apparently on the fence, and decided to not commit mass murder because the gun didn't look cool enough. That's certainly not impossible. I do think "aesthetics" plays a role in how these messed up individuals act out. I'm just skeptical that that many would be schools shooters decided a regular semiautomatic rifle just wasn't cool enough.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Let’s just cut to the chase. Liberal left politicians and many liberal individuals could not care less about the victims of shootings. They are afraid of conservatives with guns. They are afraid that if they push their liberal woke agenda too far conservatives will come down on them hard. Can you imagine what their agenda would be if the right was unarmed? Hopefully it never comes to violence but it is always in the back of their mind. I am a law abiding citizen and have quiet a few legally owned guns. I use them for hunting, target shooting, and just in case I ever need one for self defense. I also have enough ammo to last a lifetime. If the liberal left wants to try to take my guns they are welcome to try, but I wouldn’t recommend it.

You are right and wrong. As wealth in a society increases, people want a passive society, then more and more people become liberal. I wouldn't exactly say they are scared of Republican guns, they are truly scared of all guns. They want a society that's easy to control (this is just human nature), and passive incels with no testosterone are just that. Right-leaning people want to remain free, but those types are decreasing every day, while passive incels are on the rise. The future is blue, at least the next few generations. Then it will all crumble and we'll start over again, because it's not sustainable. People have ambition, they can't just sit around doing nothing forever. If it gets too bad, people just freak out (see the 2020 riots). That had more to do with people sitting around cooped up in apartments for 2 months than anything else.

It's the same cycle that's been repeated because people quit trusting in a higher power, and instead consume themselves with their own selfish wishes. There are VERY few people who are actually fighting the good fight. More are on the right-leaning Republican side, but even most of them are consumed by their own desires.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Guns, Religion, Politics, etc, etc.

Everything that you guys have talked about this morning is something that mostly a personal choice except for mental illness and personal accountability. Those things are the only thing that is a common thread through all of these acts of violence. We have no idea what their mental state or their real reasons were for the actions that they made because they usually end up being killed, but usually cannot be helped. Sometimes we get left some manifesto, but that really is just some doggerel that they've written to justify their actions

Until we can figure out what makes an individual take guns and kill another person in a setting where they have no way to defend themselves it is going to continue. To me personally, it doesn't matter whether it's one person or a group of people being killed we do not spend enough time or money on the research and investigation of why people take another person's life we just chalk it up to evil or guns or something else we can't do anything about

Until we can sit down and discuss this issue rationally instead of bringing out our irrational ideas and injecting went to the conversation it's never gonna get solved

Now, back to your ******** folks.

 

[ckDOG]

 

[Boom Boom]

I would love to know how you think this can be fixed. Lots of people display some concerning behavior and then go on to not commit mass murder. It's just not easy to have a free society and stop crazy or evil people from doing harm. Unless we find out that something like antidepressants or Ritalin or something is an underlying cause (I'm not suggesting either are, just throwing out something that's widely used), it's not going to be easy. And the only thing I know of that consistently ties all these mass shooters together is a lack of an involved father, but that's not an easy fix either, and it's entirely possible that the father not being there is strongly correlated b/c the same genes that make you unstable enough to be a mass murderer makes you the type of person that's unlikely to form a stable household unit.

Step 1: recognition from all sides that policy matters, and that improved policy will save Iives of loved ones while respecting freedoms. Plenty of posters in this thread could stand to be told that from "their side". Go ahead.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Until we can figure out what makes an individual take guns and kill another person in a setting where they have no way to defend themselves it is going to continue. To me personally, it doesn't matter whether it's one person or a group of people being killed we do not spend enough time or money on the research and investigation of why people take another person's life we just chalk it up to evil or guns or something else we can't do anything about

Well, I know one thing. When these UVa guys were sitting around and then Jones decides to pull a gun (and is willing to use it), the ONLY chance that the others had was if they had their own gun(s).

 

[Boom Boom]

You are right and wrong. As wealth in a society increases, people want a passive society, then more and more people become liberal. I wouldn't exactly say they are scared of Republican guns, they are truly scared of all guns. They want a society that's easy to control (this is just human nature), and passive incels with no testosterone are just that. Right-leaning people want to remain free, but those types are decreasing every day, while passive incels are on the rise. The future is blue, at least the next few generations. Then it will all crumble and we'll start over again, because it's not sustainable. People have ambition, they can't just sit around doing nothing forever. If it gets too bad, people just freak out (see the 2020 riots). That had more to do with people sitting around cooped up in apartments for 2 months than anything else.

It's the same cycle that's been repeated because people quit trusting in a higher power, and instead consume themselves with their own selfish wishes. There are VERY few people who are actually fighting the good fight. More are on the right-leaning Republican side, but even most of them are consumed by their own desires.

From the people that were convinced in a red wave....

Ivermectin all the way down. That's all conservatism is anymore.