Programs compared

[pseudonym]

I know it’s stupid to argue with certain Ole Miss fans, but I heard one recently say that State won the Egg Bowl because it is our Super Bowl and then finished with, “and that’s why Ole Miss is a far superior program to State.”

First of all, losing a contest and then saying, “Well, my opponent cares about this contest more than me.” is weak. Secondly, how can any rational person think their football program is far superior? I know the only answer is fans aren’t rational, but I wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something:

	Egg Bowl	SEC wins
last 10 years	Tied 5-5	State +2
last 20 years	Tied 10-10	Even
last 30 years	State 16-14	State +1

I can’t help but provide facts when they repeat their shared delusion.

Neither program is far superior. In fact, it is remarkable how even the programs are over a 30-year period.

 

[Forrest4Moore]

I know it’s stupid to argue with certain Ole Miss fans, but I heard one recently say that State won the Egg Bowl because it is our Super Bowl and then finished with, “and that’s why Ole Miss is a far superior program to State.”

First of all, losing a contest and then saying, “Well, my opponent cares about this contest more than me.” is weak. Secondly, how can any rational person think their football program is far superior? I know the only answer is fans aren’t rational, but I wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something:

	Egg Bowl	SEC wins
last 10 years	Tied 5-5	State +2
last 20 years	Tied 10-10	Even
last 30 years	State 16-14	State +1

I can’t help but provide facts when they repeat their shared delusion.

Neither program is far superior. In fact, it is remarkable how even the programs are over a 30-year period.

And regarding those SEC wins… don’t forget their permanent for 30 years has been Vandy.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

It’s best to not get close enough to hear what they are saying.

 

[Negative Waves]

I know a lot of smart people who are Ole Miss fans who turn into the biggest idiots when they start discussing football. It's almost cult-like how that fanbase is. They honestly believe they are a program equivalent to Alabama or Ohio State.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I know it’s stupid to argue with certain Ole Miss fans, but I heard one recently say that State won the Egg Bowl because it is our Super Bowl and then finished with, “and that’s why Ole Miss is a far superior program to State.”

First of all, losing a contest and then saying, “Well, my opponent cares about this contest more than me.” is weak. Secondly, how can any rational person think their football program is far superior? I know the only answer is fans aren’t rational, but I wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something:

	Egg Bowl	SEC wins
last 10 years	Tied 5-5	State +2
last 20 years	Tied 10-10	Even
last 30 years	State 16-14	State +1

I can’t help but provide facts when they repeat their shared delusion.

Neither program is far superior. In fact, it is remarkable how even the programs are over a 30-year period.

Fatal flaw: you didn't include the Vaught years. That magical time when weak scheduling serendipitously combined with an obscure rice related poll, and segregation to solidify their flagship status for eternity***

 

[patdog]

First of all, losing a contest and then saying, “Well, my opponent cares about this contest more than me.” is weak.

I always laugh when I hear this excuse. That's a much bigger indictment of your program than losing the game was.

 

[Boosh]

I know it’s stupid to argue with certain Ole Miss fans, but I heard one recently say that State won the Egg Bowl because it is our Super Bowl and then finished with, “and that’s why Ole Miss is a far superior program to State.”

First of all, losing a contest and then saying, “Well, my opponent cares about this contest more than me.” is weak. Secondly, how can any rational person think their football program is far superior? I know the only answer is fans aren’t rational, but I wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something:

	Egg Bowl	SEC wins
last 10 years	Tied 5-5	State +2
last 20 years	Tied 10-10	Even
last 30 years	State 16-14	State +1

I can’t help but provide facts when they repeat their shared delusion.

Neither program is far superior. In fact, it is remarkable how even the programs are over a 30-year period.

If you don't count the SEC wins they had to vacate under Freeze, how does the record compare then?

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Just tell Rebel fans that Ole Miss consistently plays to the level of their competition then watch them as they work out that thought...

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

If you don't count the SEC wins they had to vacate under Freeze, how does the record compare then?

I'm sure we've been forced to vacate just as many if not more SEC wins than OM - at least in the past 30 years.

Or maybe I'm thinking about the 1970's.

 

[thatsbaseball]

If you don't count the SEC wins they had to vacate under Freeze, how does the record compare then?

If you don't count the SEC wins they should have had to vacate I'm sure it works out pretty even.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

They are marginally more committed to football than we are. I would imagine this has to do with their ancient success. Modern era? They are certainly no better than us, results wise. But even still, they still seem to make the big play in the big moment, where we make it when it doesn't matter. Like in 2014, when the game was truly on the big stage, they won it. It's the opposite of baseball, where we are more committed, and seem the win the big games more than them.

Bo Bounds said it best Wednesday - when they circle the wagons on a recruit, they lock in and get him, and we have no shot. When we do that, they still find a way to weasel in. I know it's money, but that's the name of the game, especially now.

But it's all due to the old success, which has bred superiority in them. Then of course, MSU folks are more down to earth and don't want to brag.

Facts are, in the modern age - we may actually be slightly better.

 

[The Peeper]

And regarding those SEC wins… don’t forget their permanent for 30 years has been Vandy.

And they haven't exactly torched Vandy either

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

But even still, they still seem to make the big play in the big moment, where we make it when it doesn't matter. Like in 2014, when the game was truly on the big stage, they won it.

They had more talent than we did in 2014 and one of THE BEST motivators as a Coach in Freezus Hooker.
Dak was playing with an injury too.
But the biggest factor in that game was the fact that Dan Mullen had already checked out.

 

[paindonthurt]

They are marginally more committed to football than we are. I would imagine this has to do with their ancient success. Modern era? They are certainly no better than us, results wise. But even still, they still seem to make the big play in the big moment, where we make it when it doesn't matter. Like in 2014, when the game was truly on the big stage, they won it. It's the opposite of baseball, where we are more committed, and seem the win the big games more than them.

Bo Bounds said it best Wednesday - when they circle the wagons on a recruit, they lock in and get him, and we have no shot. When we do that, they still find a way to weasel in. I know it's money, but that's the name of the game, especially now.

But it's all due to the old success, which has bred superiority in them. Then of course, MSU folks are more down to earth and don't want to brag.

Facts are, in the modern age - we may actually be slightly better.

Sincere question, but how many recruits have we lost to them in the past 20 years that mattered? I'm talking guys we definitely had a shot at and could have made a real difference.

AJ Brown?
CJ Johnson might have helped us some but wasn't a major loss

Flip that to them
Chris Jones
Jeffrey Simmons
Fletcher Cox

I'm sure I missed some for them and us, but they really haven't hurt us in recruiting that bad.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

They had more talent than we did in 2014 and one of THE BEST motivators as a Coach in Freezus Hooker.
Dak Bo Wallace was playing with an injury too.
But the biggest factor in that game was the fact that Dan Mullen Geoff Collins had already checked out.

Fixed that for you.

And the fact that you say they had more talent than us kind proves that they are slightly more committed.

 

[DAWGSANDSAINTS]

I'm sure we've been forced to vacate just as many if not more SEC wins than OM - at least in the past 30 years.

Or maybe I'm thinking about the 1970's.

You’re thinking of those stupid vacated wins in the 70’s under Tyler.

 

[PBRME]

I'm sure we've been forced to vacate just as many if not more SEC wins than OM - at least in the past 30 years.

Or maybe I'm thinking about the 1970's.

The 1970’s were 30 y……..never mind

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Sincere question, but how many recruits have we lost to them in the past 20 years that mattered? I'm talking guys we definitely had a shot at and could have made a real difference.

AJ Brown?
CJ Johnson might have helped us some but wasn't a major loss

Flip that to them
Chris Jones
Jeffrey Simmons
Fletcher Cox

I'm sure I missed some for them and us, but they really haven't hurt us in recruiting that bad.

I'm not really talking about the battles, I'm talking about the guys they lock up early who we literally have no shot at. Donte Moncrief is a good example.

 

[grimedawg1]

I always laugh when I hear this excuse. That's a much bigger indictment of your program than losing the game was.

Also, didn't they rush the field when Freeze's first team won the Egg Bowl? Seems like they cared.

 

[paindonthurt]

I'm not really talking about the battles, I'm talking about the guys they lock up early who we literally have no shot at. Donte Moncrief is a good example.

But we do the same thing. We've had guys that never considered them. Not as many impact players probably, but Moncrief was never ever coming to MSU. Ever. Neither was J Powe.

But how many have we lost to them in flips or battles that really mattered to us?

 

[OG Goat Holder]

But we do the same thing. We've had guys that never considered them. Not as many impact players probably, but Moncrief was never ever coming to MSU. Ever. Neither was J Powe.

But how many have we lost to them in flips or battles that really mattered to us?

That's the point exactly.

As far as flips, I agree with you. Most flips don't matter. I never said anything about flips in my previous posts.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

They had more talent than we did in 2014 and one of THE BEST motivators as a Coach in Freezus Hooker.
Dak was playing with an injury too.
But the biggest factor in that game was the fact that Dan Mullen had already checked out.

And Dak may or may not have **** his pants during the 1st quarter... or was that 2015?

 

[FlotownDawg]

It’s amazing how much State and OM are tied together. No matter how good or bad one is, the other always seems to be right there. In our bad years under Croom, they were terrible under Coach O. We hired Mullen and improved greatly, they hired Freeze and improved greatly. In 2014, when we were #1, they were #3. We won the CWS and they won it the very next year. In football this past year, we won nine games, they won eight.

 

[pseudonym]

Bo Bounds said it best Wednesday - when they circle the wagons on a recruit, they lock in and get him, and we have no shot. When we do that, they still find a way to weasel in. I know it's money, but that's the name of the game, especially now.

I don’t put a lot of stock in this idea.

College football is all about talent. Why is Alabama the best program of the last 15 years? Multiple reasons, but the primary reason is talent. Take away their talent advantage, and the other advantages don’t matter. If it is true that Ole Miss gets any recruit over Mississippi State that they want, it stands to reason that they would have far superior talent. And if they have far superior talent, they should win more college football games.

Some Ole Miss fans will say that despite their superior recruiting, they lose because they waste talent, they are unlucky, the refs are jealous of the Grove, etc. Even if you believe one or more of these excuses, the idea that their superior recruiting doesn’t result in superior results (for whatever reason) means that their superior recruiting doesn’t matter. That’s as useless as a car rental company knowing how to take a reservation but not knowing how to hold the reservation.

So as far as I’m concerned, either:

1. Ole Miss being superior at recruiting is exaggerated, hence the same football results.
2. Ole Miss recruiting is superior but doesn’t result in superior results and therefore is of no consequence.

Bottom line: The only thing that matters is wins and losses. It is the metric that captures all other metrics.

 

[FQDawg]

My favorite thing to point out to OM fans is that when the SEC set up permanent cross-divisional opponents in the 90s, they paired teams that were on similar levels. Hence you get LSU-Florida and Auburn-Georgia. Ole Miss got paired with Vandy.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

I don’t put a lot of stock in this idea.

College football is all about talent. Why is Alabama the best program of the last 15 years? Multiple reasons, but the primary reason is talent. Take away their talent advantage, and the other advantages don’t matter. If it is true that Ole Miss gets any recruit over Mississippi State that they want, it stands to reason that they would have far superior talent. And if they have far superior talent, they should win more college football games.

Some Ole Miss fans will say that despite their superior recruiting, they lose because they waste talent, they are unlucky, the refs are jealous of the Grove, etc. Even if you believe one or more of these excuses, the idea that their superior recruiting doesn’t result in superior results (for whatever reason) means that their superior recruiting doesn’t matter. That’s as useless as a car rental company knowing how to take a reservation but not knowing how to hold the reservation.

So as far as I’m concerned, either:

1. Ole Miss being superior at recruiting is exaggerated, hence the same football results.
2. Ole Miss recruiting is superior but doesn’t result in superior results and therefore is of no consequence.

Bottom line: The only thing that matters is wins and losses. It is the metric that captures all other metrics.

This is true. It's got to suck much worse being a landshark fan. They know damn well they out recruit us and out spend us and we are still right there with them when it comes to the product on the field.
That's where we care more. More heart, more guts, and more love for the university.
It's not just pay day at the plantation. I believe it means more to our players.
As long as it means more to our coaches and administrators, we'll be just as good if not better whether we out spend/out recruit or not.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

It’s amazing how much State and OM are tied together. No matter how good or bad one is, the other always seems to be right there. In our bad years under Croom, they were terrible under Coach O. We hired Mullen and improved greatly, they hired Freeze and improved greatly. In 2014, when we were #1, they were #3. We won the CWS and they won it the very next year. In football this past year, we won nine games, they won eight.

Yep, which is one of the main reasons I quit cheering against them. They are what they are, they aren't going anywhere, but neither are we. To me, they are just another team. And funny enough, it might even help MSU when they are good, in a weird way.

And Good Lord, when they won the baseball natty the year after us, I really gave up. It's been a good experience, to let go of the eggbowl.com nonsense.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

If it is true that Ole Miss gets any recruit over Mississippi State that they want, it stands to reason that they would have far superior talent. And if they have far superior talent, they should win more college football games.

Well.....I never said this. You just dove straight to the extreme.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

My favorite thing to point out to OM fans is that when the SEC set up permanent cross-divisional opponents in the 90s, they paired teams that were on similar levels. Hence you get LSU-Florida and Auburn-Georgia. Ole Miss got paired with Vandy.

They also skipped out on a lot of the SEC powers back in the pre-90s era, while we stupidly just took on the 'anyone, anytime' USM type mantra. But we didn't even do it with cockiness, we just took the money, let the SEC pile up on us, and bent over and took it.

 

[patdog]

My favorite thing to point out to OM fans is that when the SEC set up permanent cross-divisional opponents in the 90s, they paired teams that were on similar levels. Hence you get LSU-Florida and Auburn-Georgia. Ole Miss got paired with Vandy.

That's a nice theory, but that's not how it was done. They generally set up existing cross-divisional rivals as permanent opponents. UGA-AU and UT-Bama were set in stone. LSU-Florida had played every year for the last 20 years. UM-Vandy had played annually for many years. We wound up with Kentucky because our AD had brokered a deal to replace Bama with Kentucky as a permanent opponent. The first year we were scheduled to avoid Bama was the year USC & Ark joined so they wound up never leaving our schedule.

 

[pseudonym]

It’s amazing how much State and OM are tied together. No matter how good or bad one is, the other always seems to be right there. In our bad years under Croom, they were terrible under Coach O. We hired Mullen and improved greatly, they hired Freeze and improved greatly. In 2014, when we were #1, they were #3. We won the CWS and they won it the very next year. In football this past year, we won nine games, they won eight.

The other amazing thing about how balanced the two programs are over 30 years: The balance is consistent over that time. It would be one thing if we dominated for 15 years, then they dominated for 15 years. That is why I showed the balance goes back 10 years, 20 years, and 30 years. Neither program left the other behind for a meaningful amount of time over that span.

 

[pseudonym]

Well.....I never said this. You just dove straight to the extreme.

I didn’t say that you did.

 

[FQDawg]

That's a nice theory, but that's not how it was done. They generally set up existing cross-divisional rivals as permanent opponents. UGA-AU and UT-Bama were set in stone. LSU-Florida had played every year for the last 20 years. UM-Vandy had played annually for many years. We wound up with Kentucky because our AD had brokered a deal to replace Bama with Kentucky as a permanent opponent. The first year we were scheduled to avoid Bama was the year USC & Ark joined so they wound up never leaving our schedule.

I like my story better.

 

[johnson86-1]

I don’t put a lot of stock in this idea.

College football is all about talent. Why is Alabama the best program of the last 15 years? Multiple reasons, but the primary reason is talent. Take away their talent advantage, and the other advantages don’t matter. If it is true that Ole Miss gets any recruit over Mississippi State that they want, it stands to reason that they would have far superior talent. And if they have far superior talent, they should win more college football games.

Some Ole Miss fans will say that despite their superior recruiting, they lose because they waste talent, they are unlucky, the refs are jealous of the Grove, etc. Even if you believe one or more of these excuses, the idea that their superior recruiting doesn’t result in superior results (for whatever reason) means that their superior recruiting doesn’t matter. That’s as useless as a car rental company knowing how to take a reservation but not knowing how to hold the reservation.

So as far as I’m concerned, either:

1. Ole Miss being superior at recruiting is exaggerated, hence the same football results.
2. Ole Miss recruiting is superior but doesn’t result in superior results and therefore is of no consequence.

Bottom line: The only thing that matters is wins and losses. It is the metric that captures all other metrics.

Ole Miss obviously does not get any recruit over MSU they want. They have done slightly better than us as far as getting pure talent because they've been a little more committed to paying for it. But it's not even paying for it. Obviously we did our fair share of paying before it got legal. They just cared more about making a splash so they paid more for the type of players that were (1) enjoying all the attention and/or (2) simply worried about maximizing their payday. On average, that does get more locker room problems and players that don't live up to their potential. We faced similar issues in basketball under Stansbury. That's also one of the reasons we had so many people leave despite not having a good draft grade. They just wanted as much money as possible as soon as possible.

 

[Podgy]

Our programs are pretty similar. Oxford is a nice town and Ole Miss has better PR, including intentionally downplaying and dismissing a rivalry that obviously matters to them. Our years when we're clearly better irritates the crap out of them. When we're similar, they act dismissively. That's the Ole Miss attitude and the superficial status and class markers of a transparently phony group of people who falsely believe they're classier and superior to others and pretend that the dominant football powers in the SEC consider Ole Miss an equal.

 

[Cantdoitsal]

If you don't count the SEC wins they should have had to vacate I'm sure it works out pretty even.

Would be interested in the stats that don't vacate wins from either side.

 

[Cantdoitsal]

Yep, which is one of the main reasons I quit cheering against them. They are what they are, they aren't going anywhere, but neither are we. To me, they are just another team. And funny enough, it might even help MSU when they are good, in a weird way.

And Good Lord, when they won the baseball natty the year after us, I really gave up. It's been a good experience, to let go of the eggbowl.com nonsense.

Always cheer for tsun's opponents. They are NOT just another team; they are cksuckers. NOTHING about tsun being good at ANYTHING is Good. Thinking otherwise is worse than Weird. Never Give Up. Hating tsun especially in the Egg Bowl is NOT nonsense it's COMMON Sense.

 

[Perd Hapley]

I'm sure we've been forced to vacate just as many if not more SEC wins than OM - at least in the past 30 years.

Or maybe I'm thinking about the 1970's.

We also had to vacate 8 wins in 2018 due to Tutorgate….for anyone who actually acknowledges that vacated wins are a thing.

 

[pseudonym]

Always cheer for tsun's opponents. They are NOT just another team; they are cksuckers. NOTHING about tsun being good at ANYTHING is Good. Thinking otherwise is worse than Weird. Never Give Up. Hating tsun especially in the Egg Bowl is NOT nonsense it's COMMON Sense.

 

[travis.sixpack]

All things being equal, Ole Miss will always be perceived as the better program. Why? It boils down to two things:
1.) Middle-aged sports writers enjoy covering games in Oxford because they like looking at the pretty co-eds walking around the Grove.
2.) After/before the game, middle-aged sports writers can go to the Square, have a nice meal and a couple of drinks...and look at the pretty co-ed walking around...

The media treats them like they're the better program and it colors everything else.