Sunday Headlines: Will Levis Draft Stock Edition
Could he really be a top-10 pick in 2023?
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PSU Portal Strategy
- Thread starter canuckhal
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If he were this top 10 prospect, he would have came out this year, something that Bryce Young nor CJ Stroud could not do, and he would have been selected in the top 10.
Hooray that you scoured the web for a couple links (one of which is from a UK site). You were right. Is that what you wanted to hear?
Look I’m not posting to be right, I’m posting because you not only disagreed, you dismissed it. You said it was a syndrome. Like it was so unrealistic to have the opinion.
I didn’t have to scour much, it’s been said a while and will going forward. But I didn’t need them to form my opinion, anyone watching objectively can see that one can play and one can’t last year. Even if Levis flops and goes in the 3rd round, heck even if he’s drafted, he’s turned out to have been the better player.
Also one links from UK but the article links to the Draft Network. But you know that.
Hack got drafted in the 2nd round and he's probably the worst QB to play under Franklin.
The NFL falls in love with potential. And it only takes one.
Again, if Levis were a legit top 10 QB, he would have turned pro THIS year in a near putrid QB class (as far as projections go) and got drafted by one of the teams that need a QB.
Sam Howell and Spencer Rattler had their names in the same slot last year. How'd that go for them?
And yes, it does mean something to you to dig up posts that are months old and say "lookie here!" And then you leave yourself the out with "if he flops". Pick a side. He's either legit or he isn't. I don't care what anybody says. I see a guy who will be asked to play safety or tight end in the NFL when it's said and done just like the transfer before him.
You are twisting yourself into pretzels to not have to admit, going back to my original point 2 months ago, that either PSU has an talent evaluation problem or a talent development problem at the position.
Sean Clifford is the worst QB to play under Franklin. It’s not close. At the time that he played, Hack was likely a reach in the 2nd but he was certainly draftable. Clifford will play 4 years as a starter and his hope after 3 is drafted.
The only people who disagree about Levis/Clifford at this point in their careers are on this board and they, for some reason, defend it vigorously.
Heck Clifford might have this breakthrough season and leap in reputation. But right now, and we can only evaluate to the present, they’re not even in the same zip code.
My side: we evaluate guys until the present. There’s no opening or out. If I saw someone recommend 365 days ago that Kenny Pickett is a round 1 guy I’d laugh until I cry. Today, and after a Heisman finalist season, clearly he got better. But I think that’s the problem here: you’re afraid to say the obvious for fear of changing if he’s actually good. But only idiots think opinions can’t change.
I think you shouldn’t insist that people have a syndrome that disagree with you especially ones that turn out clearly correct when they say it.
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So, afer reading this thread, can I conclude Cory Giger is still an idiot? Or has the conversation switched to something else?
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To address your question: probably not a great idea to go after 6-10 transfers p.a. and have a smaller class coming from HS. Reasons:
a. just in terms of numbers, fewer athletes in the portal than HSers;
b. team would be looking to transfers as immediate starters/major contributors. That reduces the pool considerably. Competition for those guys is pretty high. Probability of bringing in 6-10 on an annual basis is not that high. Then if we up the ante to bona fide stars, the probability is reduced even more
I think Franklin is going about it the right way.
Zero twist. I don't agree. I've stated my opinion. I could end up wrong and for the sake of a kid whom PSU recruited, I would be OK with being wrong.
PSU doesn't have an evaluation problem either. They are recruiting kids that progress into draft choices.
Again, we disagree. Hack is a product of an Era of QB evaluating that says if you look like a 1980s QB and can throw hard, you could be molded into an NFL QB.
I think the biggest difference in Clifford and Levis is obvious after the draft: UK had 2 Offensive linemen drafted in the first 3 rounds (and a recent history of sending OL to the NFL); PSU had 1 OL drafted, in R7, a drastic fall for a guy whom the NFL draft prognostication guys said was a R1 or R2 pick last year.
Again, we can agree to disagree, had you been so courteous a while back you’re probably not getting links telling you how people who do this stuff for a living (and in a year, NFL execs) disagree with you.
At no point have I been less than courteous to you. Any slight is ill perceived.
If you want to continue praising the "people who do this for a living", by all means. If they were as good at it as you claim, the struggling nfl teams would certainly hire them.
Much like Sam Howell, I think Levis is going to slide without Robinson, Ali, Smoke, 4 OL, and his OC.
I think it's only a matter of time before we see a team that backs off of high school recruiting and just leverages a large amount of annual portal transfers instead. I don't think anyone will completely abandon HS recruits, but I can envision a scenario where schools intentionally stay below 85 scholarships after LOI day in order to leave room for several inbound transfers. The risk is those programs would be banking on their ability to secure enough transfers every year. The upside is the players would be more of a known commodity since they'd already have CFB experience. If a program can pull this off with regular success, the allure of winning all the time would increase the appeal of that program for transferring players, creating a repetitive annual cycle.
It’s all but certain, good post.
When that happens (heck even now), you better partake or you’re left in the dust.
So now you have basically travel sports masquerading as college sports. Don’t know if it’s good, bad, the other. But it’s what it is.
Again, I’ll let it die after this post, but if it were as simple as “Levis isn’t what you say”, or you just think Clifford is better in it opinion than what others think, wouldn’t be a big deal. You clearly said I have transfer syndrome, implying “only someone who wants someone else could ever think psu made a bad decision”. It’s turned out to be either bad then, or thanks to development he got at Kentucky that Sean hasn’t, bad since he moved on.
If you believe the line play is the issue, then just move my original original point to the line: we either have a development or recruitment issue at the line. But in this era, it’s still a CJF issue that should be s acknowledged.
I just happen to think the QB isn’t very good and the coach refuses to look for outside help (and clearly didn’t know what to do or how to get the best from WL). Yes, Rattler would have been a massive upgrade over Clifford, as would a few others. But we’re stuck for some reason in this loyalty above all else mindset that, if the kids don’t have, you can’t have.
They don't have to stay under 85 after LOI day. They have until the next season to do so. Look at what Bama does. Recruit a lot of high end guys. Shed the ones who can't win a starting job or backup role. Pickup who you want in the portal to fill in the gaps.
Bama has taken 27, 25, and 27 players the previous 3 cycles.
Yeah, Sparty did it and had a nice turn around. USC is doing it in Y1 under Riley because the roster wasn't CCG ready.
The playoff teams are going to recruit the best out of HS to the limit and then get who they can as needed.
No, I clearly wrote:
You support what I said again with...
Again, if Rattler were this massive upgrade, why didn't he turn pro? Why is he at South Carolina instead of a blue blood? Probably because he's now got a bad reputation as a teammate and leader who struggled in Rileys QB friendly system.
And even out of high school, the ones that don’t turn out or work out, they’ll get nudged out.
They’ll always prefer to get the guys out of high school. But the difference now is with NIL combined with the portal, it makes the players commoditized and rosters liquid.
The backup QB that had to sit out a year if he transferred doesn’t now, and oh look Sparty or whoever will ante up after NIL didn’t work out in Tuscaloosa.
Rattler is a massive upgrade because he’s a 5 star talent who had a great freshman year, struggled in year 2, but has a high ceiling.
The bigger part I can’t understand or where we disagree is how bad Clifford is. It’s almost impossible to be a 4 year starter now to begin with. Why don’t you apply your “why didn’t he turn pro” logic to him?
Uhm, yeah. Exactly.
Sparty doesn't need 3 recruiting classes for a turn around now, but they still aren't beating Bama.
I guess that's why 45 other programs didn't want him? That's why in the age of NIL, the Gamecocks got him?
I don't think Clifford is a future pro QB. I don't think he's Kenny Pickett (remember what you said about 365 days ago?). It's just that I don't think Levis is either.
UMass, UConn, New Mexico State...pretty much any lower G5 program that does not get the top level recruits or have great resources.
In all Spaces
There’s a reason he’s still seen as a high level prospect.
As for Clifford, I’ll just never buy that a team that touts itself as trying to get to elite should settle for what he brings for more than the year necessary to see it. I’ll give the Covid year (even then he was benched at times), but after that, there’s an issue, sure. I don’t think PSU went after Rattler, who knows, but if they didn’t that goes back to mismanaging the position. If they did and he didn’t come, that’s just as bad.
Oh I think tons of other programs wanted him. That he got to South Carolina in his situation isn’t that shocking. There’s an opening, young coach with energy, and while I (nor probably anyone) knows his NIL situation, I’m sure he’s not poor there.
There’s a reason he’s still seen as a high level prospect.
As for Clifford, I’ll just never buy that a team that touts itself as trying to get to elite should settle for what he brings for more than the year necessary to see it. I’ll give the Covid year (even then he was benched at times), but after that, there’s an issue, sure. I don’t think PSU went after Rattler, who knows, but if they didn’t that goes back to mismanaging the position. If they did and he didn’t come, that’s just as bad.
Spencer Rattler was the original favorite to be taken first overall tonight
A quarterback won't be the first overall pick tonight, obviously.
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com
A look at how well the guys who do this for a living do their job.
Reading into it, he took no visits. Sounds like Beamer and Stogner played a big role. Doesn't sound like a highly coveted guy, but keep talking that former 5* stuff like it means anything after you put film on.
Penn State: a failure if they didn't try and equally a failure if they did and couldn't land him. Got it.
Again we’ll never know why he didn’t take any visits. I would imagine he knew where he was going before he left, but it’s not like he’d ever go to PSU anyway with Clifford back and the team’s clear inability to be open to moving on.Spencer Rattler was the original favorite to be taken first overall tonight
A quarterback won't be the first overall pick tonight, obviously.
A look at how well the guys who do this for a living do their job.
Reading into it, he took no visits. Sounds like Beamer and Stogner played a big role. Doesn't sound like a highly coveted guy, but keep talking that former 5* stuff like it means anything after you put film on.
Penn State: a failure if they didn't try and equally a failure if they did and couldn't land him. Got it.
But if we’re linking articles (which I thought we had a gentleman’s agreement we were past), I can link more than a few that still list him as a top 3 round prospect. In fact I think there’s probably not one person on Earth except on this board who even thinks we have a starter returning that could even compete with Rattler.
The failure is that PSU has played a guy at QB for 4 (4!) years now who has no business starting for a program that considers itself elite. How it got there and stayed there is a massive failure in this era.
I guess 5 star doesn’t mean anything. Just 6th overall.
NFL Draft quarterbacks 2023: C.J. Stroud, Bryce Young lead early top 10 rankings for loaded QB class | Sporting News
C.J. Stroud and Bryce Young are the top two quarterback prospects for the 2023 NFL Draft. Who else made the list?
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That 5 star stuff is just from high school. Clearly the kid was exposed. 3rd overall.
2023 NFL mock draft: Bryce Young and C.J. Stroud lead QB-heavy class
The 2023 QB class is expected to be decidedly improved on the 2022 class.
www.sbnation.com
Why on Earth would we want the guy who couldn’t start at OU. 9th overall.
2025 NFL Mock Draft Database | The Home for NFL Mock Drafts
NFL Mock Draft Database is the largest 2025 NFL Mock Draft collection from the top analysts, experts and sites around.
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All these guys are wrong and Clifford to Rattler isn’t an upgrade.
Oh I get it none of these guys watch film.
Funny. You say that Rattler would never come here, which sounds like you are presuming something, yet you have no idea why he didn't take visits...no idea what kind of NIL he's got at Columbia...like that info is drastically private.
Nobody said you couldn't link articles. In fact, many here asked you to do so when the thread originally started. It took you 3 months to get the ones that supported your opinion, but you finally came through.
And even in doing so, you try to build in your "if he doesn't pan out, at least he was rated high the year before!" out for when he possibly isn't this first round drafted QB that you think he is.
The reality is, our coaching staff is pretty good at identifying QB talent before they get 5* ratings and first round draft pick predictions. Trace was a safety to most who got drafted as a QB. Fields was a 3* who became a 5*. Allar the same. Heck, Levis was a plan b or c they found and now he's getting first round talk, no?
2025 NFL Mock Draft Database | The Home for NFL Mock Drafts
NFL Mock Draft Database is the largest 2025 NFL Mock Draft collection from the top analysts, experts and sites around.
All these guys are wrong and Clifford to Rattler isn’t an upgrade.
Oh I get it none of these guys watch film.
Explain why Rattler is returning to college if he's a top 10 pick? Why didn't he come out and start his professional career already?
Newsflash: he isn't yet.
I promise ya, if the rules allowed, Stroud and Young would have came out. Or do you think they would have stayed?
And I get it. Clifford is no good. Franklin is bad too for not running him off. I understand your points. I just don't seem to agree with much of what you say.
Buddy I’m a high school teacher and coach, for the life of me I can’t explain why these NFL guys want Rattler. But I know that they, for some reason, see a ceiling that exists that is high and attainable. Why? Not qualified.
But I know that PSU isn’t gonna make it if it doesn’t pursue those kinds of guys in the portal every year. That’s what the elite teams have to do now because you very well might lose your own guy at any time. Allar isn’t this lock to stay in SC.
I think those guys come out if they could and we all know Rattler’s rep isn’t based on what we saw last, it’s on what he was in 2020 and the pro guys thinking he has it in him to have a comeback 2022.
Look we’re talking about a lot of things here, and I’m not hedging at all to be clear. It’s not “if he doesn’t pan out”. There’s no contest between these two guys. Not Clifford/Levis, not Clifford/Rattler. The Grand Canyon is between them now, and all we can judge them on right now is what they’ve done so far.
All It takes is an "expert" to write an article and the peanut gallery gets a woody.
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Funny how the resident coaches are no longer saying that a certain 5 star QB...should have been named the starter before he set foot on campus.
Why do NFL teams have pro days/combines/scouts....wasting millions $$$ ..When they could just look to Mel Kiper for guidance?
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