PSU - Rider Dual Thread
- Thread starter Tom McAndrew
- Start date
The rear standing takedown rule says no reaction time. Establish rear standing position, one fingernail grazes the mat, it's 2.
I watched this about 5 times. And there is zero control when dean's hand hits the mat. Reaction time not even an issue.
The rear standing takedown rule defines "control" as Dean's hand touching the mat even instantaneously, after Laird established rear standing position.
From the NCAA 2022-23 Wrestling Rules:
Section 2. Takedowns
Art. 2. Hand-Touch Takedown. To award a takedown, reaction time is not required in instances in which a wrestler has rear-standing neutral control of their opponent and from the standing position the defending wrestler's hand comes in contact wit the mat. (See Illustrations.)
(Leaping to the Illustrations
Nos. 39 and 40--HAND-TOUCH TAKEDOWN. Rear standing neutral control only requires a hand-touch to award a takedown. Please note: Read standing control is required in order to apply this rule. The hand-touch criteria may not be applied for takedowns being pursued while wrestlers are down on the mat.
From the NCAA 2022-23 Wrestling Rules:
Section 2. Takedowns
Art. 2. Hand-Touch Takedown. To award a takedown, reaction time is not required in instances in which a wrestler has rear-standing neutral control of their opponent and from the standing position the defending wrestler's hand comes in contact wit the mat. (See Illustrations.)
(Leaping to the Illustrations
View attachment 273139
View attachment 273140
Nos. 39 and 40--HAND-TOUCH TAKEDOWN. Rear standing neutral control only requires a hand-touch to award a takedown. Please note: Read standing control is required in order to apply this rule. The hand-touch criteria may not be applied for takedowns being pursued while wrestlers are down on the mat.
Work with several officials, judgement call at best. Illustrations show control when wrestlers hand touches. Dean basically went to standing gramby, no rear control when hand touched. Situation was totally different than the Illustrations. Penn state had similar situations over turned earlier in the year. I think a bearclaw lost a takedown. At this point it really doesn't matter the call was made.From the NCAA 2022-23 Wrestling Rules:
Section 2. Takedowns
Art. 2. Hand-Touch Takedown. To award a takedown, reaction time is not required in instances in which a wrestler has rear-standing neutral control of their opponent and from the standing position the defending wrestler's hand comes in contact wit the mat. (See Illustrations.)
(Leaping to the Illustrations
View attachment 273139
View attachment 273140
Nos. 39 and 40--HAND-TOUCH TAKEDOWN. Rear standing neutral control only requires a hand-touch to award a takedown. Please note: Read standing control is required in order to apply this rule. The hand-touch criteria may not be applied for takedowns being pursued while wrestlers are down on the mat.
The illustrations for high school rules, and for college rules, are better in some situations than in others. The refs discuss these at meetings, so that they learn what is being indicated in each illustration.
Laird had rear standing neutral control. That's not debatable. You can use the illustration to understand what rear standing neutral control is. The second illustration (No. 40) simply shows a hand touch when rear standing neutral control has been established. It does not attempt to show every possible way in which a sequence can play out once rear standing neutral control is established.
In the video of the TD, you can see that Laird, after gaining rear standing neutral control, lifts Dean off his feet. If you take the video frame by frame, you can also see that while Laird is bringing Dean down to the mat, Dean's left arm reaches out and his left hand touches the mat. That's the hand touch component after rear standing neutral control was established.
Dean does attempt to hit a roll as he hits the mat. His right arm is tucked against his chest and he rolls to his right. Had this been regulation time, and not overtime, it might have been scored as a TD for Laird and then a reversal for Dean, or it might have been scored as just a TD for Dean. However, if Laird's coach had challenged the latter, it probably would have been switched to a TD and a REV after video review, as it's pretty clear if you go frame by frame that there is a hand touch.
From my seat, at mat level, and about 8-10 yards from the sequence, I thought I saw the hand touch which is why I thought it was a TD in real time. If I were reffing the match (and I'm not a college wrestling ref), I would have been looking for a hand touch in the sequence. Whether I would have seen it or not is hard to say. If I recall correctly, the ref was to the left side of Laird and Dean. In dynamic sequences like that, where you're on the same side as the touch, some times you see the touch, and some times you're shielded from it by the offensive wrestler attempting to bring the defensive wrestler to the mat.
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