Punting on 3rd down?

[BostonNit]

I was having a football discussion with someone recently and the subject came up of adapting to the weather at a game.

I mentioned that I vaguely recall JoePa punting on a 3rd-and-forever near the end of a quarter when he still had a strong wind at his back, rather than punting into the wind on a likely 4th-and-slightly-less-than-forever at the start of the next quarter.

Does anyone recall this with more specificity than me?

 

[Connorpozlee]

I was having a football discussion with someone recently and the subject came up of adapting to the weather at a game.

I mentioned that I vaguely recall JoePa punting on a 3rd-and-forever near the end of a quarter when he still had a strong wind at his back, rather than punting into the wind on a likely 4th-and-slightly-less-than-forever at the start of the next quarter.

Does anyone recall this with more specificity than me?

I definitely remember him punting on third down. More than once. I don’t recall the exact details of though.

 

[Auxgym]

I was having a football discussion with someone recently and the subject came up of adapting to the weather at a game.

I mentioned that I vaguely recall JoePa punting on a 3rd-and-forever near the end of a quarter when he still had a strong wind at his back, rather than punting into the wind on a likely 4th-and-slightly-less-than-forever at the start of the next quarter.

Does anyone recall this with more specificity than me?

1987 vs Notre Dame and Lou Holtz. Penn State won 21 -20.

This was pay back for the 1975 NC State win at Penn State 15-14 in which NC State executed an 80 yard quick kick on third down with less than 3 minutes to play. Ted Brown's freshman year. I will always remember it because the play occurred right in front of my 13 year old self.

You can see the game on you tube.

 

[BobPSU92]

Franklin missed many an opportunity to punt on 3rd down in his first few years here when the 3rd-down efficiency was abysmal.

 

[BostonNit]

1987 vs Notre Dame and Lou Holtz. Penn State won 21 -20.

This was pay back for the 1975 NC State win at Penn State 15-14 in which NC State executed an 80 yard quick kick on third down with less than 3 minutes to play. Ted Brown's freshman year. I will always remember it because the play occurred right in front of my 13 year old self.

You can see the game on you tube.

Awesome recall. Thanks!

 

[BostonNit]

Franklin missed many an opportunity to punt on 3rd down in his first few years here when the 3rd-down efficiency was abysmal.

We deserve 2nd down punts.

 

[BostonNit]

1987 vs Notre Dame and Lou Holtz. Penn State won 21 -20.

This was pay back for the 1975 NC State win at Penn State 15-14 in which NC State executed an 80 yard quick kick on third down with less than 3 minutes to play. Ted Brown's freshman year. I will always remember it because the play occurred right in front of my 13 year old self.

You can see the game on you tube.

IIRC didn't the kid shank the punt which kinda offset the brilliance of the move?

 

[leinbacker]

Franklin punted on 3rd down against Auburn 2 seasons ago.

 

[CVLion]

Franklin punted on 3rd down against Auburn 2 seasons ago.

LOL… he sure wasn’t happy about it though!

 

[Bkmtnittany1]

Back in the 80's when Matt Kizner was qb, there were a couple of guys in my section in the N endzone that wanted Joe to punt on 2nd down! "C,mon Joe, just puntthe damn ball already!" It would be 2nd and 10! Great guys, sadly, they are not with us anymore...

 

[BostonNit]

Back in the 80's when Matt Kizner was qb, there were a couple of guys in my section in the N endzone that wanted Joe to punt on 2nd down! "C,mon Joe, just puntthe damn ball already!" It would be 2nd and 10! Great guys, sadly, they are not with us anymore...

I remember during the QB battle that there was a banner saying "We're Safer with Shaffer".

Good times.

 

[bbrown]

I was having a football discussion with someone recently and the subject came up of adapting to the weather at a game.

I mentioned that I vaguely recall JoePa punting on a 3rd-and-forever near the end of a quarter when he still had a strong wind at his back, rather than punting into the wind on a likely 4th-and-slightly-less-than-forever at the start of the next quarter.

Does anyone recall this with more specificity than me?

I don't recall that one but I do remember us playing a (I think) Wayne Hardin coached Temple team that punted on every 3rd down. I'm guessing late 70's early 80's.

 

[PSUFTG]

I was having a football discussion with someone recently and the subject came up of adapting to the weather at a game.

I mentioned that I vaguely recall JoePa punting on a 3rd-and-forever near the end of a quarter when he still had a strong wind at his back, rather than punting into the wind on a likely 4th-and-slightly-less-than-forever at the start of the next quarter.

Does anyone recall this with more specificity than me?

My guess is that it was the 87 ND game you are thinking of - it fits all the parameters you listed except for it being at the end of a quarter (it was relatively early in the 1st Q). It was a bitter cold game w very high winds, and PSU - like every other team ND played - was deathly afraid of punting to Tim Brown of ND.

FWIW, the ND return guy (who I think was one of their starting DBs - they had their regular defense on the field) - fumbled the ball, and PSU recovered.

 

[BostonNit]

My guess is that it was the 87 ND game you are thinking of - it fits all the parameters you listed except for it being at the end of a quarter (it was relatively early in the 1st Q). It was a bitter cold game w very high winds, and PSU - like every other team ND played - was deathly afraid of punting to Tim Brown of ND.

FWIW, the ND return guy (who I think was one of their starting DBs - they had their regular defense on the field) - fumbled the ball, and PSU recovered.

It probably wasn't that example then because I remember it being a full punt team swap and not a trick pooch.

 

[PSUFTG]

It probably wasn't that example then because I remember it being a full punt team swap and not a trick pooch.

Ah.

Lots of those back in the day - back when 14-10 final scores (and playing for "field position) were not uncommon. Unfortunately, I can't recall a specific one that completely fits those parameters - though I do recall some low-scoring, cold windy weather, let the defense and field position win the game - type games against Pitt back in the day. And I'm sure there must have been some that fit the bill.

 

[Bob78]

1987 vs Notre Dame and Lou Holtz. Penn State won 21 -20.

This was pay back for the 1975 NC State win at Penn State 15-14 in which NC State executed an 80 yard quick kick on third down with less than 3 minutes to play. Ted Brown's freshman year. I will always remember it because the play occurred right in front of my 13 year old self.

You can see the game on you tube.

I don't recall that it was payback for that '75 NC State game, but that was a strategy that had been employed against PSU a few times, so it was no doubt kept in mind for opportune times to use it to our favor.
I remember a couple of players talking about that 3rd down punt by NC State. They did it as a quick punt with the offense, not with the punt team. A few PSU players on D recognized it, and called it out. However, the deep safety or safeties didn't hear the call and didn't get back in time, so the kick just kept bouncing and rolling. Good strategy by Holtz, preserving the win when PSU had momentum on its side.

 

[Bob78]

I don't recall that one but I do remember us playing a (I think) Wayne Hardin coached Temple team that punted on every 3rd down. I'm guessing late 70's early 80's.

1978 Opener vs. Temple at the Vet in Phila. A night game, may have been a Friday night. Radio only back in those days.

It was not literally every 3rd down, but it was a strategic move by Hardin to avoid 3rd down passing situations when they (Temple) were severely outmanned. If I recall, he punted on 3rd downs when on his own side of the field and it was 3rd and more than 3, or something along those lines. Otherwise, he would go for it and punt on 4th if needed. They kept PSU's offense in their own territory for much of the game, and as the game went on, both coaches realized that any mistake could cost the game.

PSU's offense could not get on track that night. Temple had a tough D, smart, fly to the ball, hit like hell, but less "talent" than most of their bigger-name opponents, as they usually did under Hardin. That '78 game was 7-7 late, before Matt Bahr kicked the winning FG as time ran out. 10-7, shaky start to what as expected to be a Championship season (and should have been!). The '78 team had a very good O, balanced as defined at the time, but was still feeling its way in the opener. Temple caught them at the right time. Later in the season, PSU would have won fairly handily, as they did just 2 weeks later at Ohio State.

Wayne Hardin is a Hall of Fame coach, who is not well-known and is under-appreciated by the casual college football fan. His Temple teams were tough, reflected the Phila hard-*** culture. They didn't win a ton, but their opponents knew they were in a game. Especially when they played on that awful green cement at the Vet! His early 60s Navy teams were very, very good. He was the coach there for Joe Bellino's and Roger Staubach's Heisman seasons. In the 1979 season, Temple played Cal in the new Grden State Bowl in East Rutherford. Cal had a big offense and a star QB who had a good Pac8 season. Cal was favored, but Temple won 28-17 or something like that. After the game, the Cal coach remarked that they had never been hit like that in all his seasons in the Pac8.

If I recall, he passed away not too long ago, within the last 5 to 10 years?

 

[Tom_PSU]

Wayne Hardin was way ahead of his time. He was the a great practitioner of the transfer portal before it actually existed. When he arrived at Temple it became obvious to him that despite his best efforts he wasn’t going to be able to recruit enough quality players to compete with the other decent teams on the schedule.

Thus he used all his contacts and connections in the coaching industry to acquire dissatisfied, unhappy, underutilized or whatever players from upper quality teams. True he had to wait a year to get them on the field back then, but he built up a continuous stream of these players. Somehow to his credit he meshed them all together and produced quality football teams.

 

[EricStratton-RushChairman]

Your title made me laugh a bit... I work for a large French tech company and I often tell people that if our French senior management were NFL coaches they tell us to punt on first down and still expect us to win my 4 touchdowns.

 

[bdgan]

I was having a football discussion with someone recently and the subject came up of adapting to the weather at a game.

I mentioned that I vaguely recall JoePa punting on a 3rd-and-forever near the end of a quarter when he still had a strong wind at his back, rather than punting into the wind on a likely 4th-and-slightly-less-than-forever at the start of the next quarter.

Does anyone recall this with more specificity than me?

I remember PSU had an opponent backed up near their own goal line in the 70s. They used a quick kick that must have gone 80 yards.

 

[Bob78]

Wayne Hardin was way ahead of his time. He was the a great practitioner of the transfer portal before it actually existed. When he arrived at Temple it became obvious to him that despite his best efforts he wasn’t going to be able to recruit enough quality players to compete with the other decent teams on the schedule.

Thus he used all his contacts and connections in the coaching industry to acquire dissatisfied, unhappy, underutilized or whatever players from upper quality teams. True he had to wait a year to get them on the field back then, but he built up a continuous stream of these players. Somehow to his credit he meshed them all together and produced quality football teams.

Penn State's QB Steve Joachim among the most notable. Joachim was not going to beat out John Hufnagle or Tom Shuman at PSU, transferred to Temple, and won the 1974 Maxwell Award (in a classic home-cooking voting outcome!).

 

[Got GSPs]

There is an old coaching adage that any possession ending with a kick is a good one…

 

[MacNit]

I was having a football discussion with someone recently and the subject came up of adapting to the weather at a game.

I mentioned that I vaguely recall JoePa punting on a 3rd-and-forever near the end of a quarter when he still had a strong wind at his back, rather than punting into the wind on a likely 4th-and-slightly-less-than-forever at the start of the next quarter.

Does anyone recall this with more specificity than me?

I remember Foge Fazio punting at PSU on third down on last play of a quarter into a fierce wind rather than wait until clock expire and punt on 4th down with the wind.

Pure Pitt.

I think it may have cost them tbe game in 1982?

But wait, Fazio was a highly paid coach. He must of known more than anyone posting here?!

 

[SleepyLion]

I think I remember Anthony Morrelli throwing a few punts. It did not seem matter what down it was he just threw the ball down the field to the safety.

 

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It probably wasn't that example then because I remember it being a full punt team swap and not a trick pooch.

punts against the north wind that day literally stopped forward progress and maybe even blew back a but

one of the greatest football games I ever attended