I think it’s new. I never knew what my parents made and I never discussed what I made/make with anyone, but younger coworkers dang near tweet it out. Maybe I’ve just been out of the loop all this time.
I was told not to discuss my salary here at my place of employment. Ia m probably way overpaid for what I at home my kids do not know.
I saw an episode of "Adam Ruins Everything" once where they were discussing this. Employers ask you not to mention salary only because it hurts them. It is completely legal to do, but if employees knew each other's salaries, then the lower earners would be asking for more, costing the employers more.
I don’t think it’s legal for your company to tell you to not discuss your pay with coworkers. At least according to my company’s HR, and I question them often.
They can ask you not to, but they cannot do anything legal if you do. Asking is perfectly legal.
New. I've talked to some 20's early career people and there are at least a couple of things that stand out:
Employers could flip that script if they wanted to, and were good with documentation. Let's say it was out in the open. While I don't think an employer could give the info, they could essentially say, "hey, this is what it is, if you want more, do this/that/the other". Could possibly make it much harder for employees to try and push them around.
Go ahead and do something they tell you not to do. See if you get another raise.
I might have used the wrong wording. It was a strong ask not too. I work for a great company with great retirement, great benefits, family-oriented company that has 18 billion in assets. They take really good care of me and pay me really good. I was asked not to so I will not.
The problem with that is, is that 90% of the time someone could make more or isn't, is because they just didn't demand more or switch jobs. Not exactly something employers want them to know.....
Yeah, when I meet with someone and their pay is discussed, I always say something to the effect of “I’m asking you to not discuss your salary with coworkers because it will end up making my job more difficult, but it’s completely your call.”
It's new. I'm in my early 50s, and when I was starting out, discussing your pay with another employee was grounds for immediate termination. This was in Mississippi, which is an employment at will state, so even if First Amendment issues got in the way, you'd better believe they would've cooked up a more neutral-sounding reason to get you gone.
My father owned his own business and handled a lot of cash (as did his father). Like you I didn't know amounts. The Lebanese community accumulated wealth quite efficiently and kept their wealth private very efficiently. Even with family !
It was the same in my household growing up, and the same with my kids (I don't let them know). You're right about younger people, and it leads to a bunch of unnecessary problems and drama. Back when I was managing a small group of about 40 engineers/designers/drafters, one guy opened a huge can of worms by talking openly about it. That's why I think it's always been something that people just kept to themselves. It can cause a lot of problems and there is really no upside to it. They think by complaining openly, they can band together to force the "evil" managers into doing something different. Reality is there are tons of factors that go into compensation packages and the complainers usually don't understand. The loudest complainers are almost always the worst workers as well. But there's a generally accepted urban legend within this group that all managers are inept buffoons who lucked their way up the ladder or got there due to "muh privilege" or some other nonsense.
People really don't like to hear it for some reason, but I'll say again that the best way to define corporate profit is the sum of how much it underpays its employees. Employees should understand that minimizing the payroll is the chief concern of every large enterprise, including that they will let the best employees leave to maintain the system. To maximize your pay, you need to know what you can get. It's not as simple as just demanding a raise. It's a never ending campaign. But the flip side of that is the more you make the more you're a target.
I don't know if 90% is anywhere close to true, but it's certainly true that job hoppers tend to get better pay. But co-workers talking doesn't really address that.
In some cases. However, the change jobs routine for more pay only works for so long. At some point, more productive people tend to get recognized. When I had a lot of employees, I had many with the same title that did not make the same pay. It was based on productivity, which was typically a mix of capability+experience+diligence+intangibles. I had clear, achievable goals and deliverables and they all did similar work on different projects so it was quite easy to tell who produced the most. I'm all about fair pay, however, equal and fair are not the same thing.
Your first complaint is frustrating because you are a messenger and taking the brunt of frustration even though it wasn't your decision.
You rule 14'ed them.
I get the point, but it's just not the apples and oranges comparison people want it to be. Case in point, when I left one management job for a promotion, they let me recommend my replacement. I recommended a woman I had hired just a couple of years prior. They made her an offer. she came to me asking what I was making in that position, and at first I didn't want to tell her because I knew they would have offered her less because she hired on at a rate way below what I was making. Eventually I told her, and she became irate saying they offered her x amount less "because she is a woman". I explained to her, no, they offered you less because you were already making way less. You had been with the company 2 years, where I was with the company 10 years so I had already worked my salary up from various promotions and other experiences. I did a better job negotiating, because frankly I didn't need the job or the headache that came with it as I was happy in my previous job before they asked me to take that position (I didn't even apply for it, they came to me so I had a lot of leverage). I could go on and on, but it had nothing to do with her being a woman. It was something she perceived, and still perceives to this day. People/companies really just don't care anymore. Can you do the job? If yes, you can have it. They will look at your experience, your skills, your current situation, and a lot of other factors to come up with a compensation package to offer you. It's just like anything else - they will try to get you for the minimum amount they think you'll take. If they really want you, negotiating will be fairly easy. If they consider you just one of several/many that can fill the role appropriately, then your offer will reflect that and you may not have much negotiating power. You can have 100 senior engineers all with the same years of experience, and all 100 of them are different. You'll have some worth a lot, and plenty worth next to nothing. Many will be in the middle. Thinking you can or should pay them all the exact same is naive at best.
My conspiracy theory is that when big companies say they gave out X.X% average raises this year, that they're lying.
I don't now. 10% is a lot over time. I don't disagree that you don't want to be an employee that's always asking for more and there are risks to being relatively highly compensated for a position. But if you're overpaid by 10% for 15 years and then get laid off, how long do you have to be unemployed to undo that 10%?
Was told by my grandfather to never discuss how much money you make or who you vote for, it can only lead to arguments / resentment. I've always lived by that and have encouraged my kids to do the same.
