Question for the board while the wool is thick...
- Thread starter Coach34
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G
Goat Holder
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an abysmal offense AND a losing record would get people talking. But if he wins I don't care what his offense looks like.
But to answer your question, no I don't think he'll be on the hot seat unless he gets blown out in most of those losses OR loses to Tech or somebody.
But to answer your question, no I don't think he'll be on the hot seat unless he gets blown out in most of those losses OR loses to Tech or somebody.
...although I don't know what the administration would think. At the end of the day, though, if you are coming off of 4 losing seasons in your first 5 years, you'd better put together a winner in year 6.
it was whether he was playing for his job or not in 09. That is not a decision I get to make. And he won't be playing for his job in 09 under the scenario given.
One big thing to realize is that last year basically means that the coaching circles and many state fans will still believe that croom's first 3 years are Sherrill's fault. He basically cleared himself of responsibility for 04-06 with last year in many people's minds.
One big thing to realize is that last year basically means that the coaching circles and many state fans will still believe that croom's first 3 years are Sherrill's fault. He basically cleared himself of responsibility for 04-06 with last year in many people's minds.
If he goes 5-7 in 08, he will be playing for his job in 09. Because to me, if he has another losing season in 09, he is gone.
As far as I am concerned this has been "Croom's team" for 2 years now. If he has a losing season this year and one in 2009 that would have to be the worst record of any State coach.
Is that he keeps talking about how the offense will be better. Last year some people gave him a mulligan b/c of the freshman QB. He won't have that this year and he's got veteran receivers and RB's as well. So not much excuse this year for not at least cracking the top 100.
The defense should be above average as well thus giving us good field postion a lot of the time.
5-7, 5-7 and he's probably not fired, but only hanging on by a thread.</p>
The defense should be above average as well thus giving us good field postion a lot of the time.
5-7, 5-7 and he's probably not fired, but only hanging on by a thread.</p>
J
JR
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You dont/cant fire the consensus SEC coach of the year the years after being consensus Coach of the year for finishing 1 game under .500.
Not to mention someone that currently has a two game winning streak over Alabama, and a one game winning steak over Nick Saban.
I am not making the mistake of the Polk or former JWS worshippers and saying that we shouldnt keep the expectations of Croom to field a winning season every year, and be disapointed when he doesnt.
But it would be impossible to fire him, and its should be. Now in the circumstances you described could we all be super critical of Croom? and disapointed? You bet. Should we let him know that a year with those circumstances should be scored as a failure?
You bet, but firing is completely off the table.
Not to mention someone that currently has a two game winning streak over Alabama, and a one game winning steak over Nick Saban.
I am not making the mistake of the Polk or former JWS worshippers and saying that we shouldnt keep the expectations of Croom to field a winning season every year, and be disapointed when he doesnt.
But it would be impossible to fire him, and its should be. Now in the circumstances you described could we all be super critical of Croom? and disapointed? You bet. Should we let him know that a year with those circumstances should be scored as a failure?
You bet, but firing is completely off the table.
....but if has two consecutive losing seasons, he's still had losing seasons 2 out of 3 years even if you don't count 04-06. That's just not good enough.
I don't know if the administration will let him go, but I sure would. And I think Byrne just might. Hell, nobody wants to do it. Everybody (except Peaches) is pulling for him.
I don't know if the administration will let him go, but I sure would. And I think Byrne just might. Hell, nobody wants to do it. Everybody (except Peaches) is pulling for him.
I completely agree with JR. 5-7 would actually keep a large part of the fanbase in the, "well at least we didn't go 3-9 mode." I call it the Polk mentality. The only way he gets fired is if you see a 2-10 or 3-9 season with humiliating defeats in large numbers.
G
Goat Holder
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Everyone was begging for 5 wins after 2006. 5 wins in '08 coupled with 5 wins in '09 will NOT get Croom fired, and it shouldn't, given the loss of personnel we will have after '08 and what he's done so far. He will probably be on the seat in '10.
Now if we tank both seasons, maybe. You can't just classify it as losing or winning seasons, in this case. Lot of difference in 3 wins and 5 wins.
Plus, our athletic department is completely committed to Croom turning this around, LT or not.
Now if we tank both seasons, maybe. You can't just classify it as losing or winning seasons, in this case. Lot of difference in 3 wins and 5 wins.
Plus, our athletic department is completely committed to Croom turning this around, LT or not.
With a 12 game schedule, no excuse for anything less than 6-6. I have said that since the day he was hired. Now expectations differ depending on the previous year. Take last year for instance, we just wanted improvement but were pleasantly surprised. To go from 8-5 to two straight years of not going to a bowl using Coach's scenario is worthy of termination.
And considering the fact that this is year 5 and next year would be year 6, 1 winning seasons in 6 years is not good enough.
And considering the fact that this is year 5 and next year would be year 6, 1 winning seasons in 6 years is not good enough.
Byrne is showing he isnt the "typical" State AD.
Losing season this year gives Crooms one winning season in 5. Should he not win in 2009, that 1 out of 6. I dont think he would return. Reason? Because the offense wouldnt be any better than the first day he was hired. How can someone not improve something he coaches in 6 seasons?
Losing season this year gives Crooms one winning season in 5. Should he not win in 2009, that 1 out of 6. I dont think he would return. Reason? Because the offense wouldnt be any better than the first day he was hired. How can someone not improve something he coaches in 6 seasons?
He is responsible for that loss of personnel in the way that he recruited. Losing players and having a down year after losing a lot of players is commonly excused when the team was good the previous year. You can't be sub .500 in 2008 and lose a bunch of players and then be sub .500 in 2009, and justify 2009's bad season by saying that you lost a bunch of players. It just doesn't work like that.
G
Goat Holder
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that we needed a complete makeover from the ground up. I like to compare our situation to Schiano at Rutgers. Stick to a plan to build upwards. I don't want last year to skew my expectations of where we should be at this point, because we all know, whether we want to admit it, that in a utopia our team last year was probably a 5 or 6 win team. You have to take into consideration the luck factor swaying your record.</p>
BUT, I love what Croom is doing. We have quality depth and adding talent, we have players who WANT to be at MSU, and it honestly seems like they are working hard and buying into our program philosophy. We don't have any more discipline problem than anyone else. And we are steadily improving. These things are hard to see back when we're losing.
As long as that pattern continues, I won't get upset over a 5 win season some of the time. Especially not now. But yes, I'll probably be on here venting and cussing when we lose like everyone else.</p>
BUT, I love what Croom is doing. We have quality depth and adding talent, we have players who WANT to be at MSU, and it honestly seems like they are working hard and buying into our program philosophy. We don't have any more discipline problem than anyone else. And we are steadily improving. These things are hard to see back when we're losing.
As long as that pattern continues, I won't get upset over a 5 win season some of the time. Especially not now. But yes, I'll probably be on here venting and cussing when we lose like everyone else.</p>
J
JR
Guest
<span class="post-title">i HOPE he would be playing for his job in 2009, because I want him fired anyway.
there...fixed.</span>
there...fixed.</span>
G
Goat Holder
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2009 to fire him. But, that's me. At that point, I would assume that the 2007 season was a fluke. That's why I didn't have a problem with increasing his salary. But, I had a big problem extending the contract.
J
JR
Guest
why on earth would you spend your time hoping for something to happen if HYPOTHETICALLY two poor seasons in a row would happen.
I mean wouldnt most fans spend there "hope" time wishing that we would have HYPOTHETICALLY two WINNING seasons in a row?
Why would someone who was a fan of a school comming off a season where MSU won a bowl game, its coach was named SEC coach of the year, and he was racking up a good recruiting class, be worried about what is going to happen after two HYPOTHETICAL losing seasons.
Most SEC school fans I KNOW spend their time hoping for winning season.
I dont think you are that twisted that you hope for bad things to happen to your SUPPOSED school, so obviously I think you have an agenda.
I mean wouldnt most fans spend there "hope" time wishing that we would have HYPOTHETICALLY two WINNING seasons in a row?
Why would someone who was a fan of a school comming off a season where MSU won a bowl game, its coach was named SEC coach of the year, and he was racking up a good recruiting class, be worried about what is going to happen after two HYPOTHETICAL losing seasons.
Most SEC school fans I KNOW spend their time hoping for winning season.
I dont think you are that twisted that you hope for bad things to happen to your SUPPOSED school, so obviously I think you have an agenda.
If Croom has one winning season in six, then yes, he should be fired. What our offense does in the meantime is of no consequence in that matter. What matters at the end of the day is whether you were able to win or not.
If we had sub 100 offenses the next two years, but Croom had two more winning seasons, we would be idiots for firing him, because that would be three winning seasons in a row.
By the same token, if we had a top 20 offense the next two years and still had losing seasons Croom should be fired.
I'm amazed that one of the few people on this board who has actually coached gets so hung up on what our offense does or doesn't do. For me, I'll take winning 14-10 over losing 56-52.
If we had sub 100 offenses the next two years, but Croom had two more winning seasons, we would be idiots for firing him, because that would be three winning seasons in a row.
By the same token, if we had a top 20 offense the next two years and still had losing seasons Croom should be fired.
I'm amazed that one of the few people on this board who has actually coached gets so hung up on what our offense does or doesn't do. For me, I'll take winning 14-10 over losing 56-52.
I've said before that I hope Croom has a good year this year if for nothing else for his sake because next year doesn't look good. If he has a bad year this year, and follows that up with what appears to be a likely down year in 2009, Croom should be fired. 1 winning season out of 6 is pathetic, I don't care what the situation was when he was hired. It's even worse when you consider that we now have 12 game seasons.
I'll go ahead and respond to JR now, it is a valid discussion because Croom has had 1 winning season out of 4 years thus far. While Croom proved he could win he has yet to prove he can win consistently and maintain a high level of success within the program. I hope he does just that, but the possibility exists that he won't.
I'll go ahead and respond to JR now, it is a valid discussion because Croom has had 1 winning season out of 4 years thus far. While Croom proved he could win he has yet to prove he can win consistently and maintain a high level of success within the program. I hope he does just that, but the possibility exists that he won't.
B
BattleStations
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J
JR
Guest
If Croom had a top 30 offense, could he only win 4 games and keep his job?
How nice of an offense does he need to keep his job but not win ANY games?
How nice of an offense does he need to keep his job but not win ANY games?
"why on earth would you spend your time hoping for something to happen if HYPOTHETICALLY two poor seasons in a row would happen."
Why are you saying I HOPE this happens? I asked a question about a very likely scenario for the future of MSU football. We could very easily end up 5-7 this season due to an offense that is ****** once aGAIN. Two teams had winning records with an offense of 100 or worse last year. So to discount this scenario would be foolish.
Why are you saying I HOPE this happens? I asked a question about a very likely scenario for the future of MSU football. We could very easily end up 5-7 this season due to an offense that is ****** once aGAIN. Two teams had winning records with an offense of 100 or worse last year. So to discount this scenario would be foolish.
What if Croom wins 8 games and his players shoot three people, stab a couple, and rape a few more on campus. Should he be fired or should state fans keep saying that there are no more discpline problems on our team then any other team?
deluding ourselves if we think anything will happen to Croom's job security for at least another full 3 seasons unless we spend the next two in the 2 to 3 win area which I think is very unlikely. We have to remember the uniqueness we have with Croom in that he carries that "first black HC in the SEC" mantra along with being highly respected by the college football community and national and local media as a tremendous "man of character" (which I, by the way, certainly believe he is). Did you guys watch the ESPN documentary on Croom? Can you imagine the grief we will get for ever firing Croom a second before it becomes absolutely obvious to everyone in college football circles that it has to be done. MSU has always been notoriously slow to pull the trigger on head coaches anyway and given the sensitive situation with Croom the trigger will be even slower. I think we all realized the day we hired Croom that given the uniqueness involved, though it provided some advantages, that should it not work out MSU was going to be in an awkward position in ever having to let him go. For that reason, I believe it would take some extremely dismal records for him to lose his job in the next 2 seasons given the success he just had last season. Let's hope for all our sakes that it doesn't come to that anyway and that last year's success was not a one-trick pony kind of deal.
We're not even in the top ten of Fulmer Cup anymore. But yeah, when our players rape, stab and kill people, I'll agree that we've got a serious discipline problem.
you guys not can his *** for 5 wins in '08? 3 horrible seasons. I wanted to fire him after that. Then I relent and ask for 6 wins in '07 or it is his ***. I get 7 (8 inlcuding the bowl.) So, I am willing to keep him around. I am not sure why I should be willing to accept less than I required in '07 and permit him to keep his job. If we suck for 3 years, have a good solid season for one, and then suck again, I would call that solid season a fluke.
That just proves that Starkville and MSU authorities are experts at covering **** up. In the most cynical recesses of my brain I believe that Croom has recruited a band of thugs that has helped the crime rate of Starkville to increase. I have nothing substantial to back it up, but shooting at cars on campus is a good start.
Porkchop said:
exactly my thinking as well...I cant understand how Crooms gets the past wiped clean cause we ended up in a bowl. If we have a losing season this year, it shows how big a fluke last season was because we should have a better team and do have an easier schedule. Anything less than 6 wins in 2008 in unacceptable and should put him right back in the hotseat for 2009</p>
No excuse for not building on success. I'll allow a losing season this year, but he damn well better make up for it the next.
My expectation is always we should be able to schedule 4 wins a year (thanks LT) and even in the worst years win 2 in the SEC, so 6-6 is meeting expectations.
Edit for spelling
My expectation is always we should be able to schedule 4 wins a year (thanks LT) and even in the worst years win 2 in the SEC, so 6-6 is meeting expectations.
Edit for spelling
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