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Goat Holder
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and we are the leaders for Bumphis and Thames. Not to mention being in on some solid out of staters. This is getting ridiculous.
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and we are the leaders for Bumphis and Thames. Not to mention being in on some solid out of staters. This is getting ridiculous.
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and we are the leaders for Bumphis and Thames. Not to mention being in on some solid out of staters. This is getting ridiculous.
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Goat Holder
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...I know you follow this stuff. What's your take?
This is my theory. When Croom arrived, coming from the NFL, he was a fairly lazy recruiter, which was fine in the state as long as Ole Miss had Cutcliffe. When Orgeron arrived, he started sending out blanket offers and getting on these kids early. Croom was forced to use some of the same types of tactics to compete with him, and has since become a fairly competent recruiter. He has always been a needs-based guy, which I agree with, but getting on these kids early seems to make a difference. Meanwhile, Ole Miss hires Nutt, who is not necessarily accustomed to recruiting his 2009 class in February of 2008. He largely got Arkansas kids, and because he was head coach at the University of Arkansas, he could offer in the late fall and get who he was going to get. He comes to Ole Miss with that mindset, and Croom is already in on these kids from the get go, plus the 2007 season has begun to pay dividends, and so Ole Miss is nowhere to be found on these guys.
In my roughly 10 or so years of following recruiting, I have never seen one school dominate the other like we have thus far. With Orgeron, you knew you were going to have a fight over the top instate guys. Many of these guys don't even list Ole Miss in their top 3. That said, Nutt put together a pretty decent class last year in an abbreviated time period, and I also think that he will adjust and do what he has to do. Plus, it's July. However, even though I am willing to bet that some of our commitments will flake out at the last minute when the bigger schools come calling, it would be hard for me to see a bunch of them switching to Ole Miss at the last minute, just based on the sheer numbers right now. In any case, all credit goes to Croom and his staff, and he needs to hang on to these guys, and go ahead and get the remaining few on the table.
This is my theory. When Croom arrived, coming from the NFL, he was a fairly lazy recruiter, which was fine in the state as long as Ole Miss had Cutcliffe. When Orgeron arrived, he started sending out blanket offers and getting on these kids early. Croom was forced to use some of the same types of tactics to compete with him, and has since become a fairly competent recruiter. He has always been a needs-based guy, which I agree with, but getting on these kids early seems to make a difference. Meanwhile, Ole Miss hires Nutt, who is not necessarily accustomed to recruiting his 2009 class in February of 2008. He largely got Arkansas kids, and because he was head coach at the University of Arkansas, he could offer in the late fall and get who he was going to get. He comes to Ole Miss with that mindset, and Croom is already in on these kids from the get go, plus the 2007 season has begun to pay dividends, and so Ole Miss is nowhere to be found on these guys.
In my roughly 10 or so years of following recruiting, I have never seen one school dominate the other like we have thus far. With Orgeron, you knew you were going to have a fight over the top instate guys. Many of these guys don't even list Ole Miss in their top 3. That said, Nutt put together a pretty decent class last year in an abbreviated time period, and I also think that he will adjust and do what he has to do. Plus, it's July. However, even though I am willing to bet that some of our commitments will flake out at the last minute when the bigger schools come calling, it would be hard for me to see a bunch of them switching to Ole Miss at the last minute, just based on the sheer numbers right now. In any case, all credit goes to Croom and his staff, and he needs to hang on to these guys, and go ahead and get the remaining few on the table.
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Nutt, at one time, had a reputation as a good recruiter. He lost it at some point in Arkansas, but at the same time, he has proven he only needs a minimal amount of talent to win. If he ever does reel in a couple of big classes, watch out. Whether he can or not remains to be seen because he never got more than a couple of really talented players per class in Arkansas, and they were all in-state guys who grew up rooting for them.
Croom has learned as he went, and learned to recruit going up against O, who is one of the best. O would be hell as an assistant, which he has proven. Now his competition has dropped off, and Croom is taking advantage. We probably will have one more good year recruiting, and then the pendulum will start swinging back Ole Miss's way when Nutt figures out what the hell he's doing, if he ever does. He's more than capable of holding his own without any serious recruiting.
And, it is July. But still, I'd rather have them committed than not have them committed.
Ed: Also, I think it's helped us alot to have Tyler Russell on board. Maybe not to the extent that Manning helped Ole Miss, but when you have a QB that the PLAYERS actually consider to be the best around, it means a great deal. Regardless of the Yancy's and Gene's, the consensus among the high school folks is that Tyler Russell is the best of the bunch.
Croom has learned as he went, and learned to recruit going up against O, who is one of the best. O would be hell as an assistant, which he has proven. Now his competition has dropped off, and Croom is taking advantage. We probably will have one more good year recruiting, and then the pendulum will start swinging back Ole Miss's way when Nutt figures out what the hell he's doing, if he ever does. He's more than capable of holding his own without any serious recruiting.
And, it is July. But still, I'd rather have them committed than not have them committed.
Ed: Also, I think it's helped us alot to have Tyler Russell on board. Maybe not to the extent that Manning helped Ole Miss, but when you have a QB that the PLAYERS actually consider to be the best around, it means a great deal. Regardless of the Yancy's and Gene's, the consensus among the high school folks is that Tyler Russell is the best of the bunch.
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Despite what Bruiser say, it's definitely a tangible advantage. They now have to decommit from us, even though a commitment isn't what it used to be.
unless we go 3-9 or something. Also, I imagine Croom is the kinda guy I wouldn't want to have to call and disappoint if I were a HS kid.
Orgeron was the perfect storm for MSU -- a good enough recruiter he made Croom raise his game, and bad enough of a coach that he never really did anything with those recruits.
Orgeron was the perfect storm for MSU -- a good enough recruiter he made Croom raise his game, and bad enough of a coach that he never really did anything with those recruits.
Eli's overall class was very poor. The next year Cut pulled in a decent class (his best, which ranks good not great) but he went back to his old ways after that. Cut's last class and the one he had in place when he got canned were very poor. Cut never really managed to capitalize on either Eli or the Cotton Bowl or the exposure that both brought us. Croom has done an exceptionally better job at getting better and capitalizing on bowl momentum than Cut ever did. Nutt might pull together another good class late w/ out of state prospects, who knows, but he better adapt if he wants to get significant MS talent. Maybe he was disgusted by recent history of MS recruits and their academic status (I was).
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TR said:
My biggest surprise with Croom was that he didn't just step in and do a good job in recruiting from the beginning. When I heard him speak at halftime of the basketball game just after he was hired, I thought that if I was a recruit I don't know how I'd be able to tell this man no.</p>
Tyler even had Hugh Green and Rooster Jones, until Jackie stole them away, as Pittsburg just happened to get to the Sugar Bowl that year. We got everyone we wanted in a very good year in Mississippi. Say what you will about Bob Tyler, but he was one hell of a recruiter
I agree with that for the most part. Nutt just doesn't have the connections instate yet and he seems disappointed in the state's academics.
I'm just glad the early signing period was voted down.
I can only hope we have a good season to turn on recruits. And if we want some of these MS recruits, I also have to hope yall falter.
I'm just glad the early signing period was voted down.
I can only hope we have a good season to turn on recruits. And if we want some of these MS recruits, I also have to hope yall falter.
My take on Croom the recruiter is just like a lot of things, he had to learn how to do it. He had been out of college football for over 10 years, and things had changed A LOT. He had to learn his lessons like not having a back-up plan for Kenny Ashley and taking high school kids words as gold.
I think the turning point for him was Robert Elliott. No matter what really happened, he was able to land him and steal him from another school.
And credit Croom with making our football program attractive. He has NFL ties, and has shown that he can coach. And his morals are a big selling point to the parents- and I still think parents have a huge impact on where their kids go to school.
I think the turning point for him was Robert Elliott. No matter what really happened, he was able to land him and steal him from another school.
And credit Croom with making our football program attractive. He has NFL ties, and has shown that he can coach. And his morals are a big selling point to the parents- and I still think parents have a huge impact on where their kids go to school.
If there were ever a year to dominate MS in recruiting, this is a pretty good year to do it. That's the best part about it. Getting 3 of the 5 mentioned would be good, 4 would be great, and all 5...that would be just sick (but it's just not likely). Either way, it's a long time until February...
Goat Holder said:
Here is where I think this is going to get tough for Nutt. At Arkansas, with no real rivalry, he had easy access to the Arkansas boys and the only real pipeline into the mid-west (LSU gets some of the South Texas boys but not a huge influx). That also allowed him to play an insanely patsy schedule and pull out all these 8 win seasons. Who was going to ***** about the patsies?</p>
But now you have a real rivalry. You have to fight for recruits and if you schedule a cream-puff schedule you will eventually hear about it from your boosters because the MSU folks will CONSTANTLY be throwing it up in their face. It's just a reality. It may be good enough to win seven or eight against the ultimate cream-puff schedule for a few years but eventually the Ole Miss fans are going to start believing they are better than that and start demanding they schedule USC. Then the truth that Nutt is a mediocre coach is going to come to light.</p>
I'm ultimately not afraid of Nutt at all. I thought it was a good hire when they made it but more and more I keep thinking that Arkansas should have been much better and I think he was actually holding them back. I could be wrong but I just don't see this playing out as a winner.
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if he played at MSU, Matt Jones college stats would place him 3rd all-time in career completion percentage (55.6% behind Dave Marler - 56.8% and Sleepy Robinson - 55.7%) and 2nd in all-time passing efficiency (134.8 behind Jackie Parker - 135.1). Also, his 134.8 passing efficiency is 15th all-time in the SEC.
thelaw said:
Matt Jones wasn't on the same squads as McFadden & Jones.
1 or 2 players don't make a great team. Jones & McFadden were really good, but only one could carry the ball at a time.
Matt Jones played in a Cotton, Indpendence, Music City Bowls & a SEC championship game. McFadden played in a Cotton Bowl, Citrus Bowl, and a SEC championship game. Same for Felix Jones. Considering it was Ark, I wouldn't call that squandered.
Squandered is what happened to the collegiate careers of Patrick Willis & Jerious Norwood.
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Agree and that's the reason I think this season is of utmost important for us. Do we well and we are on track to be a good team soon. Do poorly and we're set back a few more years.TR said:
</p>I can't agree with that at all. I Coach O had zero impact on Croom. Croom simply had a learning curve on recruiting. Croom doesn't evaluated himself or our team by the comings or goings of things in Oxford.
Quote from Croom in an excellent article on Bulldog Junction (I hope this is kosher):
"Really, I don't know if it's a strategy because it's just the way it's happened," said Croom, the reigning SEC Coach of the Year. "When I came to Mississippi State, I was one of those guys that didn't want to offer a scholarship until after guys started playing their senior year. If you wait that long now, you won't get any.
"In fact, I got a letter the other day from a kid in the ninth grade, wantng to know if we offered a scholarship. I hope it doesn't get to that point."
While spots are limited in MSU's Class of 2009, Croom said the recruiting process and program evaluation looks even further down the road.
"One of the things that's really helped us is the stability of our coaching staff now, being able to know where (recruits) are," said Croom. "Basically in the fall, we'll be evaluating talent not only for this year - our last few scholarship offers - but also for the next year. We're almost two years ahead. Believe it or not, (Tuesday) night I was working on a 2010 depth chart. That's how far you get ahead.
"And this year, we're probably going to sign 25 guys. Next year, we'll probably only be able to sign 16 or 17 guys. So we'll have to be sharp on our evaluations to make sure all 16 or 17 of those scholarships count."
"Really, I don't know if it's a strategy because it's just the way it's happened," said Croom, the reigning SEC Coach of the Year. "When I came to Mississippi State, I was one of those guys that didn't want to offer a scholarship until after guys started playing their senior year. If you wait that long now, you won't get any.
"In fact, I got a letter the other day from a kid in the ninth grade, wantng to know if we offered a scholarship. I hope it doesn't get to that point."
While spots are limited in MSU's Class of 2009, Croom said the recruiting process and program evaluation looks even further down the road.
"One of the things that's really helped us is the stability of our coaching staff now, being able to know where (recruits) are," said Croom. "Basically in the fall, we'll be evaluating talent not only for this year - our last few scholarship offers - but also for the next year. We're almost two years ahead. Believe it or not, (Tuesday) night I was working on a 2010 depth chart. That's how far you get ahead.
"And this year, we're probably going to sign 25 guys. Next year, we'll probably only be able to sign 16 or 17 guys. So we'll have to be sharp on our evaluations to make sure all 16 or 17 of those scholarships count."
...by losing to the eventual national champion and coming a couple of missed field goals away from winning that game and winning the division.
...of Ole Miss fans talking about how Cutcliffe squandered a talented team, but when Nutt does essentially the same thing at Arkansas, he is a good coach. Just sayin'.
<p align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#FFFFFF" size="1"> SEASONS - 1998-2007, 75-48-0</font></p> <p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="1">Houston Nutt was the third Arkansas</font></p> <p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="1">head coach to take the Razorbacks to a</font></p> <p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="1">bowl game in each of his first six seasons. He led the</font></p> <p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="1">Hogs to three SEC Western Division crowns, eight bowl</font></p> <p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="1">games, two bowl victories, three final national rankings</font></p> <p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="1">and four nine-win seasons. Nutt's 8-0 start in 1998</font></p> <p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="1">marked the best debut ever for a UA head coach and</font></p> <p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="1">helped UA reach its first New Year's Day game since</font></p> <p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="1">1990. In 2001 and 2006, Nutt was voted SEC Coach of</font></p> <p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="1">the Year by the Associated Press and league coaches.</font></p>
He didn't squander the 2003 team. The 03 team had Eli and a couple other guys, but the overall talent level wasn't anywhere near the 99 team. The 03 lacked depth at most positions and had no running back. Eli and the O-line were the stars of that team. I don't think you could have asked for much more out of that team.
The 99 team was loaded. It could have won the west.
The 99 team was loaded. It could have won the west.
Biggest thing with Nutt is that he is having to establish new relationships in new recruting territory. Looks like he's hitting Ga & Fla hard this year, but if you look at last years Ark roster it shows 84 of 114 listed on the roster from the states of Ark and Texas.
Why he's not hitting those two states as hard at OM, I don't know. I'd go to where I was familiar with until I built my relationships in MS. and other states. OM has a lot of students from Texas, seems like he'd use his contacts over there more.
He obviously thinks otherwise. Time will tell.
Why he's not hitting those two states as hard at OM, I don't know. I'd go to where I was familiar with until I built my relationships in MS. and other states. OM has a lot of students from Texas, seems like he'd use his contacts over there more.
He obviously thinks otherwise. Time will tell.
Cut never caught **** for the 2003 team. He caught plenty of **** for going 7-4 with the 99 team where he inherited a roster with 20+ players that would make an NFL team, the 2001 team being 5-1 I believe after the win in Baton Rouge and not making a bowl, and the 2002 team being 6-6 and headed to Shreveport. The 2003 team shouldn't have lost to Memphis and Texas Tech and the LSU game should have been played with national championship implications for both teams but I guess then it would have just been even more of a kick in the nuts when Nichols went wide right twice. Bottom line is I don't see how you can give Nutt **** for the 2006 season when he went 10-4 with losses to top 5 USC, LSU, UF, and Wisconsin.
Goat Holder said:
</p>Bumphis and Thames are both in Oxford as we speak...for whatever it's worth.
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