Regarding baseball - at this point...

bulldoghair

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So what if you fire the coach. The real issue is talent. The real problem is the new NIL and transfer portal. If the new coach just happens to be a billionaire and wants to spend his own money on his team, then this move would make sense. If not, who cares. Baseball loses money anyway.
 

Trojanbulldog19

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Aug 25, 2014
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So what if you fire the coach. The real issue is talent. The real problem is the new NIL and transfer portal. If the new coach just happens to be a billionaire and wants to spend his own money on his team, then this move would make sense. If not, who cares. Baseball loses money anyway.
If we can't recruit good enough talent to sweep Austin Peay and Georgia southern with the resources we have something is wrong. This is deeper than talent. It's huge misses by this staff and huge under development. We aren't getting guy developed like we were. Guys that are making big leaps from year 1 to year 2 to year 3 to 4. Just not seeing. All these guys are exactly the same as when they arrived if not worse. That's on lemonis and his staff
 

8dog

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Feb 23, 2008
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So what if you fire the coach. The real issue is talent. The real problem is the new NIL and transfer portal. If the new coach just happens to be a billionaire and wants to spend his own money on his team, then this move would make sense. If not, who cares. Baseball loses money anyway.
NIL is not an issue. At all. None. I can tell you that with great certainty.

The portal haul was bad this year bc we are a losing program.
 

ababyatemydingo

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OG Goat Holder

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it's guess the weekend Lemonis gets fired. I hate it for him because I like Lemonis personally but State baseball SHOULD be plug and play.

I'm thinking after Florida.

2024 Baseball Schedule - Mississippi State (hailstate.com)
I don't know where you get this plug and play stuff. It took Cohen's intensity to get this thing back on track, and now that's worn off. MSU ain't ever been plug and play. It breaks down like this:

- Pre and Polk 1 Era: time up until the late-80s, when we were the only program who cared. But this isn't a slight at us, you have to have this. The first ones to the table alway build their programs first, happens in all sports, it's why we enjoy a solid program today;
- 1990s: Other SEC programs started paying attention, and things get harder for us;
- 2000s: We totally drop the ball and make a bad hire, which cost us many things, mainly the ability to get back among the elites and Ole Miss building their program;
- 2010s: Intense Bastard Era - it is now going to take this level to keep us winning at the top level.

I've come to believe we need IBs in every sport at MSU, just how it is. I though we could get away with a recruiter/player's coach in baseball but it didn't work.
 

OG Goat Holder

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So what if you fire the coach. The real issue is talent. The real problem is the new NIL and transfer portal. If the new coach just happens to be a billionaire and wants to spend his own money on his team, then this move would make sense. If not, who cares. Baseball loses money anyway.
Bro I don't think the NIL and portal is the problem. It's the recruiting approach.
 

bulldoghair

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- 2010s: Intense Bastard Era - it is now going to take this level to keep us winning at the top level.

I've come to believe we need IBs in every sport at MSU, just how it is. I though we could get away with a recruiter/player's coach in baseball but it didn't work.
You just really can’t coach that way in any sport anymore and it workout like it all ways did….because of the transfer portal ect.
 
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OG Goat Holder

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You just really can’t coach that way in any sport anymore and it workout like it all ways did….because of the transfer portal ect.
I disagree wholeheartedly with that. In many ways it may even help you weed out the pvssies. You can always replace them.

This is a zag where everybody else is zigging. At MSU, it's just a necessity.

I mean Lemonis appears to be so soft, I am wondering if Slate Alford wasn't in the right. We say his attitude was poison, but was it? I saw the guy at a practice one time, he seemed to be working hard. And he was a multi-sport athlete in high school......maybe he didn't fit Lemonis' mold?
 

HuntDawg

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I disagree wholeheartedly with that. In many ways it may even help you weed out the pvssies. You can always replace them.

This is a zag where everybody else is zigging. At MSU, it's just a necessity.

I mean Lemonis appears to be so soft, I am wondering if Slate Alford wasn't in the right. We say his attitude was poison, but was it? I saw the guy at a practice one time, he seemed to be working hard. And he was a multi-sport athlete in high school......maybe he didn't fit Lemonis' mold?
Lemonis for sure has his favorites (hancock, etc) that are going to stay in the order daily, regardless of how they perform. And it does seem he has a shorter leash on some other guys, that seem to be more talented.

Guess thats true with every coach to an extent, but have to wonder why he chose to give rope to guys like forsythe, and some more talented guys never get that much of a shot.
 

bulldoghair

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I disagree wholeheartedly with that. In many ways it may even help you weed out the pvssies. You can always replace them.

This is a zag where everybody else is zigging. At MSU, it's just a necessity.

I mean Lemonis appears to be so soft, I am wondering if Slate Alford wasn't in the right. We say his attitude was poison, but was it? I saw the guy at a practice one time, he seemed to be working hard. And he was a multi-sport athlete in high school......maybe he didn't fit Lemonis' mold?
I guess I need to clarify for you. You just really can’t coach that way in ANY sport anymore and it workout like it all ways did….and expect to keep top talent that could easily go somewhere else equivalent or better….because of the transfer portal ect. You CAN coach this way and keep average talent and below average talented players. It’s whatever you want to do or believe, but things are not the same anymore. It is what it is.
 
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Thebulldogcountry1

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it's guess the weekend Lemonis gets fired. I hate it for him because I like Lemonis personally but State baseball SHOULD be plug and play.

I'm thinking after Florida.

2024 Baseball Schedule - Mississippi State (hailstate.com)
If I had to make the decision, it would come down to the short-term trajectory of the program. If things get worse in locker room and you start seeing players quit, then you have to make the move. Otherwise, it's probably best to try to let Lemonis ride it out until the end of the season. It's not like we are going to hire someone mid-season, unless someone at OU is interested.
 

Bulldog Bruce

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Nov 1, 2007
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So what if you fire the coach. The real issue is talent. The real problem is the new NIL and transfer portal. If the new coach just happens to be a billionaire and wants to spend his own money on his team, then this move would make sense. If not, who cares. Baseball loses money anyway.
MSU Baseball does not lose money.
 

OG Goat Holder

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8dog

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Pretty sure we've operated at a negative in baseball for the last 3 years. Although I'd have to go look it up. Maybe longer than that.
Because we aren’t charging FMV for licenses. In 2029 all that changes but right now, at most, we book $150 per chairback for license. I’d imagine all premium seating and lounges go up significantly that year too. Last years loss may be bigger bc of the Fox buy out but I don’t know that for sure bc I don’t know how that’s structured.
 

SouthFarmchicken

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Because we aren’t charging FMV for licenses. In 2029 all that changes but right now, at most, we book $150 per chairback for license. I’d imagine all premium seating and lounges go up significantly that year too. Last years loss may be bigger bc of the Fox buy out but I don’t know that for sure bc I don’t know how that’s structured.
And then, attendance goes down. And then, we can concentrate on football and basketball (hopefully) like we should have been doing with “the Meddler.”
 
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HuntDawg

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Because we aren’t charging FMV for licenses. In 2029 all that changes but right now, at most, we book $150 per chairback for license. I’d imagine all premium seating and lounges go up significantly that year too. Last years loss may be bigger bc of the Fox buy out but I don’t know that for sure bc I don’t know how that’s structured.
Right. I realize we could be charging way more that we are. But i'm pretty sure we've been operating at a loss for more than just a year... and so that we can. continue to claim high attendance figures.
 
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8dog

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Right. I realize we could be charging way more that we are. But i'm pretty sure we've been operating at a loss for more than just a year... and so that we can. continue to claim high attendance figures.
It doesn’t matter what we charge for those chairbacks, they are going to sell out so I don’t think claiming attendance figures has anything to do with it. Plus our biggest crowds are actual.
 

8dog

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And then, attendance goes down. And then, we can concentrate on football and basketball (hopefully) like we should have been doing with “the Meddler.”
Attendance isn’t going to go down. All those seats will sell. I promise you. I asked a ticket holder what they would do if they bumped it to $500 per seat and the response was “see if we can add seats”
 
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HuntDawg

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It doesn’t matter what we charge for those chairbacks, they are going to sell out so I don’t think claiming attendance figures has anything to do with it. Plus our biggest crowds are actual.
There will be a number where they dont sell.. and we'll know it if we hit it.

Our biggest crowds are actual crowds I agree. SBW. Ole Miss. Etc. But we also like to overblow so actual attendance numbers or pull the ol "paid attendance" whatever it may be a good bit. A few crowds at the end of last season, were beyond awful, but go check those attendance numbers
 

OG Goat Holder

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Pretty sure we've operated at a negative in baseball for the last 3 years. Although I'd have to go look it up. Maybe longer than that.
I know. Due to the stadium. Point is it won't be that way forever. Things cost money.
 

8dog

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There will be a number where they dont sell.. and we'll know it if we hit it.

Our biggest crowds are actual crowds I agree. SBW. Ole Miss. Etc. But we also like to overblow so actual attendance numbers or pull the ol "paid attendance" whatever it may be a good bit. A few crowds at the end of last season, were beyond awful, but go check those attendance numbers
Everyone does paid attendance like that. It’s definitely dumb.

im sure there is a breaking point on the license price but its really high. And we wont do 10 year agreements again so you can just figure it out year by year. At $750 id be in for 4. I currently have zero. Those chairbacks have crazy demand
 

OG Goat Holder

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Everyone does paid attendance like that. It’s definitely dumb.

im sure there is a breaking point on the license price but its really high. And we wont do 10 year agreements again so you can just figure it out year by year. At $750 id be in for 4. I currently have zero. Those chairbacks have crazy demand
Agree, that was just to satisfy the lifetime folks from the old stadium, and ensure the new one gets paid for.
 

8dog

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Agree, that was just to satisfy the lifetime folks from the old stadium, and ensure the new one gets paid for.
It was also to justify charging $1800 per seat so we could get a cash infusion to pay for the stadium.
 

ETK99

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Jul 30, 2019
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So what if you fire the coach. The real issue is talent. The real problem is the new NIL and transfer portal. If the new coach just happens to be a billionaire and wants to spend his own money on his team, then this move would make sense. If not, who cares. Baseball loses money anyway.
NIL isn't a problem for us in baseball. Outside a handful of teams, we're as good or better than others. This staff made the poor evaluations and haven't developed squat. Lemonis himself admitted they got a little lazy after the championship thinking guys would just jump to State. So get out of here with that BS!
 

Perd Hapley

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Sep 30, 2022
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it's guess the weekend Lemonis gets fired. I hate it for him because I like Lemonis personally but State baseball SHOULD be plug and play.

I'm thinking after Florida.

2024 Baseball Schedule - Mississippi State (hailstate.com)
I’m not sure how much it matters. If you make the decision to retain him after the past 2 years, you may as well give him all the rope to hang himself.

But if you had to make a move midseason, just do it whenever we become virtually eliminated (not necessarily mathematically eliminated) from at-large regional contention.

It’s tough right now because while we have been very disappointing, we still aren’t fully healthy in some areas. Any outlook for this season that didn’t include Bradley Loftin playing a prominent role was a bleak one. Put him in the weekend rotation with Dohm and Lo, and things might look a bit different right now. Time will tell if he just has some minor injury like Bednar had at the beginning of 2021, or if he’s headed for TJ. I’m not optimistic based on recent history.

But so far, the pitching overall has improved, outside of a couple of outliers. I’m inclined to say that Parker is doing his job thus far. Need to see if Gautreau can start doing his. Again, I’m not optimistic.
 
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OG Goat Holder

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I’m not sure how much it matters. If you make the decision to retain him after the past 2 years, you may as well give him all the rope to hang himself.
Boosters and AD should have left him alone and not made him fire Foxhall. Just let it all ride.

We do some dubmass stuff around MSU, for sure.
 
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dudehead

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So what if you fire the coach. The real issue is talent. The real problem is the new NIL and transfer portal. If the new coach just happens to be a billionaire and wants to spend his own money on his team, then this move would make sense. If not, who cares. Baseball loses money anyway.
So, then go after John Grisham and hire great assistants to accompany his leader$hip.
 
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MStateDawg

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In 2029 all that changes

FYI, because the 2020 season was cancelled, they gave season ticket holders the option of getting a refund on the that year's seat license or extending their 10 year window thru 2029. Everyone I've talked to chose the option to extend it a year so it'll be 2030 before most have to pay seat licenses again.
 
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beachbumdawg

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Because we aren’t charging FMV for licenses. In 2029 all that changes but right now, at most, we book $150 per chairback for license. I’d imagine all premium seating and lounges go up significantly that year too. Last years loss may be bigger bc of the Fox buy out but I don’t know that for sure bc I don’t know how that’s structured.
150$ per seat?

after my 6K investment in 4 seats it was just under 1500 for seats each year for the 4
 

Rupert Jenkins

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So anyway to get to the point of the post I think he will finish the year barring some big player revolt. I can't see the advantage of firing him early but I wish they would. The players that everybody said were a problem are playing much better at their new homes. Might be a competition thing but I would say it's probly a coaching thing. Lemonis is too laid back. Yeah it's a fine line but most athletes want to be pushed and challenged and developed. I don't see that happening here anymore. SEC play is gonna be brutal.
 

thekimmer

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it's guess the weekend Lemonis gets fired. I hate it for him because I like Lemonis personally but State baseball SHOULD be plug and play.

I'm thinking after Florida.

2024 Baseball Schedule - Mississippi State (hailstate.com)
I'm saying Georgia. It is a home set against a perennial also ran after starting the season with three potentially brutal series. If the first three go predictably bad it will bring out the knives and a series loss here will bring out the axe.
 

Perd Hapley

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MSU Baseball does not lose money.
It certainly does currently.

We were losing about $1.3 million per year in the old stadium as recently as 2016 (before the new stadium).

IMG_5948.jpeg

Most recent financial statements still showed a loss in that same range in 2022 or 2023 (maybe a bit larger) but a large part of that is annual debt service for the financed construction cost of the new DNF (which was about $50 million of the $80 million total). I believe the hope is MSU will be turning a profit in baseball within 5-10 years. COVID of course hurt a lot….lost most attendance revenue from 2020/2021 seasons.

There are probably less than 6-7 programs nationally that actually make money on baseball. We would have been one of them a long time ago, but we hamstrung ourselves badly with the old lifetime seating guarantees that we charged peanuts for on the annual renewals. That’s now corrected to where cost is more aligned to demand, but we’ve still got the stadium that has to be paid for.
 
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