Roger Wicker

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ronpolk

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What do you think Social Security, Medicare, the federal highway program, and Medicaid are, to name a few? We have a capitalist economy with a socialist government. it's been that way for a long time.
We have socialist programs for sure. Not arguing that. You said we were full blown socialists. Read the definition below and explain that to me.

 

DesotoCountyDawg

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Yep, but the way I see it being a little socialist is about like being a little pregnant. We have almost every socialist policy that the Europeans do, we just don't spend as much money % wise on them as they do. The only real difference is the qualification line.
Ok whatever floats your boat. You’re making up your own set of rules for socialism.
 

L4Dawg

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Europe isn't socialist. A couple of countries tried it and it didn't work. Canada isn't socialist. Having national healthcare doesn't make a country socialist. It's possible, as current and recent reality shows, to have market-based economies that produce sufficient wealth to provide social welfare programs. America and Canada spend about the same percentage of g.d.p. on social welfare programs. It's a system that works and provides stability and order although there is a tendency for governments to spend too much (we do, especially on wars that don't work out well). FYI, there is no libertarian paradise. The biggest chunk of our welfare state goes to the elderly. Try telling them to do without and see what happens. We also pay farmers not to farm. And yes we do have lazy people ripping off the system and people like Favre taking advantage of the system.
Having national healthcare absolutely makes a country socialist. That is by definition a socialist program. Medicare is one too.
 

horshack.sixpack

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I bet no one read all of the tax cut bill that Trump and the Republicans pushed through several years ago. Where was everyone with that bill? And I’m not disagreeing with the tax cuts, I’m just making the point that no matter the politics they have huge bills now with lots of pages of little pet projects and loopholes. It’s the world we live in now.
I'm sure they all have plenty of people who they get to sort through them and tell them what they should like and dislike. Given the lot we have in there now, I'm convinced that some of them aren't mentally capable of maybe reading them and for sure understanding them. Imagine the poor sap that has to author them!
 

ckDOG

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I suspect that we are philosophically more aligned than you would think. Food for thought. Pre-Constantine, the church had requirements to meet the needs of the poor and needy and did. Constantine got converted and started forcing that function into government. Pretty good deal if you can force Christian principles into a pluralistic population and get people without those same beliefs and principles to foot part of the bill. The US adopted European influenced social services and now, to a large extent, conservative "Christians" rail against them. But they are Biblically based. There's quite a bit of dissonance.

I believe that the power that Constantine gave to Christianity, for the first time ever, began to attract people who were more interested in power than following Christ. Fast forward to our country, 70's/80's rise of the Moral Majority and Religious Right and we have a bunch of people who use Christianity as a way to attract enough people so that they can get into and maintain power. They keep saying Christianish things, while making power grabs and I've just gotten sick of the nationalism, us v them, as if we aren't all just humans with different opinions about how to make things better. It's a racket and I'm not participating in it any longer.
I bet the middle 60-70% of this country is far more aligned politically than most people care to acknowledge. Surely not a tight range, but close enough to pull together in a direction with some reasonable compromise here and there. But that requires genuine and skilled leaders less concerned about political party wins and being focused on the good of the country.

Our entire system has been dominated by a handful of emotional hot topics at the expense of dozens more that need attention, tribalism, identity politics, and social grievances. We are just spinning our wheels while the elected are laughing all the way to the bank. Very few of them have any intent on governing. It's an acting job that pays well. East Hollywood basically.
 

Podgy

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Agreed. European countries aren’t socialist either they again….have social programs.

Sweden and Norway have a great balance of highly competitive capitalism mixed with social programs.
Which is good for Swedes and Norwegians and expensive for Americans who travel there. If that's what they want and vote for, that's fine. And men get to marry Swedish and Norwegian women. Not bad at all.
 

L4Dawg

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We have socialist programs for sure. Not arguing that. You said we were full blown socialists. Read the definition below and explain that to me.

Read all of what you linked. Pay particular attention to the very first part of the guide below the three bullet points. The definition has evolved because of the political overtones. Most people now use socialism and communism interchangeably. That should not be the case. Communism is socialist, socialism is not always communism.
 
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Podgy

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When Hispanic immigrants start voting Republican, Democrats will build a wall faster than you can fart Yankee Doodle Dandy
They already are and Dems aren't stopping the flow of immigrants. I suspect that once Dems stop the woke nonsense and if inflation continues to decline, Republicans are going to actually need to support some policies besides slogans.
 

L4Dawg

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Let it go. You don't get to invent your own definition of words and ideologies.
I'm not inventing it. I'm using the strict traditional definition, not the modern evolved one that you are using.
 

ckDOG

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We have socialist programs for sure. Not arguing that. You said we were full blown socialists. Read the definition below and explain that to me.


SOCIALISM has been turned into a bogey man intended to get cheap votes based on fear. Most people that throw it out as a pejorative either have no idea what socialism is or are being purposely disingenuous. Most people that fear SOCIALISM would **** a brick if you suggested you were going to take away their social security, medicare, and on.

Arguing for and against how we spend money on social programs and picking on how much we waste or how inefficient we are is very fair and necessary. Bogey man "but that's socialism!" arguments is lazy. If you find your rep or preferred candidate leaning on those scare tactics, they likely aren't doing their job.
 
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Podgy

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Read all of what you linked. Pay particular attention to the very first part of the guide below the three bullet points. The definition has evolved because of the political overtones. Most people now use socialism and communism interchangeably. That should not be the case. Communism is socialist, socialism is not always communism.
That's not true. But, I'm curious. What countries, according to your understanding, aren't socialist countries? Name some
 

L4Dawg

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Ok whatever floats your boat. You’re making up your own set of rules for socialism.
That's fine if you want to look at it that way. As I see it social welfare programs are socialism. I don't see the word socialism as a dirty word in and of itself. I do understand it triggers a lot of people because of its association with communism, which IS a dirty word. It shouldn't be that way. Medicare and Social Security are good programs. Now don't take that to mean that I think they are well run programs.
 

Podgy

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Again, name some countries that aren't socialist countries.
 

ronpolk

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Read all of what you linked. Pay particular attention to the very first part of the guide below the three bullet points. The definition has evolved because of the political overtones. Most people now use socialism and communism interchangeably. That should not be the case. Communism is socialist, socialism is not always communism.
Got it. You’re just going to use whatever definition of the word you want to use and say it’s “evolved” over time. I understand what I’m arguing with now and will stop wasting my time.
 

L4Dawg

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That's not true. But, I'm curious. What countries, according to your understanding, aren't socialist countries? Name some
There really aren't any. That's my whole point. Virtually every county on earth at least attempts to implement some form of socialism. True Sink or Swim disappeared a long time ago.
 

Podgy

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I think I live in a socialist neighborhood. I pay some annual fee and we have some communal property that all residents walk on. I think I have a socialist family arrangement. My wife and kids use my money all the time.
 

L4Dawg

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I think I live in a socialist neighborhood. I pay some annual fee and we have some communal property that all residents walk on. I think I have a socialist family arrangement. My wife and kids use my money all the time.
Yes. What we argue over is the degree of socialism we want. It's not a dirty word and does not have to have the despotic overtones that we have come to see it with.
 

Podgy

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Yes. What we argue over is the degree of socialism we want. It's not a dirty word and does not have to have the despotic overtones that we have come to see it with.
"We" haven't been doing that. Quit moving the goal posts.
 

OG Goat Holder

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They already are and Dems aren't stopping the flow of immigrants. I suspect that once Dems stop the woke nonsense and if inflation continues to decline, Republicans are going to actually need to support some policies besides slogans.
You just nailed what the Dems are. Dems are woke, the rest of the country isn't. That's ultimately why I still vote Republican, because OVERALL being anti-woke is the biggest issue right now. We've got to get that **** under control. I agree with many things the Dems like but I can't get over the woke agenda and the anti-police agenda.

And you're right on immigrants, nobody can stop that and nobody will. #1, they don't vote, and #2, they only come when there are jobs available. Not based on politics. This whole fear of immigrants thing the right has is nonsense. Of course we need to secure the borders, but these people aren't just skimming off the job and using up our resources. They are typically either working, in a holding area somewhere, or on the run when they get here.
 
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johnson86-1

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He may eventually be out next Thad. Of course the tea party idiots hate that.
He is no Thad. He just doesn’t have it in him. he can get some pork because of seniority, but he will never approach Thad’s strength, even if he manages to live another hundred years and stay in the senate the whole time.

And it is incredibly ****** to Nominally be a republican and push a year long spending bill out the door simply because you don’t want newly elected republicans to have a say.
 

OG Goat Holder

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He is no Thad. He just doesn’t have it in him. he can get some pork because of seniority, but he will never approach Thad’s strength, even if he manages to live another hundred years and stay in the senate the whole time.

And it is incredibly ****** to Nominally be a republican and push a year long spending bill out the door simply because you don’t want newly elected republicans to have a say.
Well I personally have heard just about enough from the 'drain-the-swamp' nimrods who do nothing but grandstand. So if I'm Wicker you can probably multiply that by 100.

AND.....I'm not really interested in another government shutdown because 'reasons', which would include Boebert and MTG making complete fools of themselves.
 
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thatsbaseball

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I think we can all agree (or hope) there is something in the bill for Mississippi but has anybody read enough to know what it is and more importantly does it benefit a large segment of our population ?
 

Boom Boom

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You just nailed what the Dems are. Dems are woke, the rest of the country isn't. That's ultimately why I still vote Republican, because OVERALL being anti-woke is the biggest issue right now. We've got to get that **** under control. I agree with many things the Dems like but I can't get over the woke agenda and the anti-police agenda.

And you're right on immigrants, nobody can stop that and nobody will. #1, they don't vote, and #2, they only come when there are jobs available. Not based on politics. This whole fear of immigrants thing the right has is nonsense. Of course we need to secure the borders, but these people aren't just skimming off the job and using up our resources. They are typically either working, in a holding area somewhere, or on the run when they get here.
Most Dems aren't "woke", there's a whole spectrum of "woke", and I find it incredible that any person would think which pronouns are used to be the most important issue to vote on. The power of propaganda I guess.

Another thing. Dems aren't "anti-police". What they actually are is against the current scheme where cops are unaccountable and have total allowance to unconstitutionally infringe on liberties of American citizens. You can be pro police and believe in reform to how we do accountability with police. People like you can't seem to understand that.
 
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OG Goat Holder

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Another thing. Dems aren't "anti-police". What they actually are is against the current scheme where cops are unaccountable and have total allowance to unconstitutionally infringe on liberties of American citizens. You can be pro police and believe in reform to how we do accountability with police. People like you can't seem to understand that.
You're right, I can't. Because I don't believe the police do this as a large percentage. And I don't think you make rules based on a small percentage, you simply punish the small percentage. And I'm talking like 98-2 ratio here.

When you do stupid ****, expect stupid outcomes. I've never had one negative dealing with the police that didn't involve me doing some stupid ****. Same thing with all these videos and shootings and such. In 98% of the cases there is some stupid **** going down beforehand.
 

Cantdoitsal

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Sep 26, 2022
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What's been lost here is

Social welfare programs are by definition socialism. You need to learn the real definition of the word. What we are arguing about is the degree of socialism. We are not a despotic planned economy socialist country. There is a big difference between communism and socialism.
Isn't government in and of itself socialism? Isn't socialism basically individuals making personal sacrifices in order to create a more civil society? I agree with you regarding the argument being "the degree of socialism" which creates discussions and different opinions of how much or how little we go with socialism. Hell, isn't buying insurance a form of socialism? The conservtative side though has issues with direct payments to the less productive from the more productive. That's where the arguments get nasty and personal. Transfer payments from one individual's pocket to another's causes problems liberals refuse to acknowledge. Yes, some are needed to maintain a civil and moral society rooted in our Judeo Christian Faiths but The Left refuses to discuss the cost ramifications and how too much of this has adverse consequences. One of the smartest men ever, Benjamin Franklin said it as good as anyone:

“I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”​

 
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wsjmsu75

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A lot of talk here about term limits, which I agree we need badly. I think Presidents should be given only one six year term, for instance. And congress members should get maybe up to 2 four year terms. And there should be limits on Supreme Court justice terms.

Having said all of that, how would these changes be implemented into law? Will congress ever impose these limits on themselves? Doubt it.
 
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The only fix for our broken political system is term limits on over single elected official. From president down to town alderman to senators and representatives and every one in between. You get two terms and then get back in the real world with a real job. Unfortunately I doubt there will ever be enough of a revolution for enough politicians to vote themselves out of a cush guvment paycheck.
Term limits won't help much - it'll just created a revolving door of political influencers who have no idea what they're doing.

You gotta get rid of the sources of influence first - end most lobbying, end Citizen's United, outlaw SuperPACs, and publicly fund elections. This way, politicians will have to win on their records rather than their massive war chests.
It would help if there was a 3rd party that was viable enough to threaten take the majority in one or both camerals. It seems that the brand obssesed Americans are a long way from making that a reality. We love to assign blame but the truth is more likely that the constituency is less intelligent than the folks they put in office.
There needs to be a push for ranked choice voting like they have in Alaska and Maine. The instant runoffs will save people a ton of time and money and it will make it so that the two parties won't be able to threaten folks into voting for them because WHAT IF YOUR THIRD PARTY VOTE PUTS THE OTHER GUY IN OFFICE?!?!?
Yep. At some point these politicians need to come out of Washington and live in the real world with the policies they have created. Ban super PACs as well.
Strong agree. Gotta move elections over to being publicly funded and require all politicians to have a cavity search level of tax/income audit every single year.
Few things I've wanted to say on this topic but can't on social media for "reasons". First off all congressman are all garbage.

When our legislature was formed each house representative represented 33,000 people. The number of representatives hasn't changed since Alaska and Hawaii were added. As a result, over the last century, congressional districts have more than tripled in size—from an average of roughly 212,000 inhabitants after the 1910 Census to about 710,000 inhabitants following the 2010 Census. We do not have the same representation we'd did 100 or 200 years ago and that's a major issue.
This should 100% be done. Districts drawn to give one party juuuuuuust enough leeway that they only have to worry about their primary election disenfranchises about 47% of their district and leads to an increase in extremist policies.
No free nation/government, etc... has ever remained intact for more than 300 years. Neither will we. It's over. Don't know what the USA will become, but somewhere between solid socialist and communist state is about right.
This is hilarious because if the ruling on Moore v. Harper goes how I think it will, we're much more likely going to have a Christian Theocratic White Ethnostate. Red state legislatures that have gerrymandred their way into unassailable, veto proof majorities are chomping at the bit to be able to throw out federal election results that they don't like, and the Independent State Legislature theory of governance would give them the ability to do that.
Our system is a joke. We need to get away from two parties but that want happen. There is to much money to be made when you have a bad guy. Democrats suck, Republicans suck, Fox News suck, CNN sucks, daily wire sucks, and so fourth. There is to much money to be made for them to help the common man.
Correct, all of those institutions are awful. We do have a way out that can get bipartisan support and make the powers that be sweat - ranked choice voting like the have in Alaska and Maine. The instant runoffs will save people a ton of time and money and it will make it so that the two parties won't be able to threaten folks into voting for them because WHAT IF YOUR THIRD PARTY VOTE PUTS THE OTHER GUY IN OFFICE?!?!?

Lord knows I only vote D because the right has lost their goddamned minds on many issues even though the Dems are just the party of status quo and keeps their progress to symbolic gestures carried out by geriatrics with a death grip on power.
$500M to set up more abortion clinics in areas needing population control to aid endangered species. Yet Dems saying we need open borders because Americans aren't reproducing enough.
Dems are not in favor of open borders. There were significantly more border arrests and quick deportations under Obama and now under Biden than there were under Trump.
We are already full blown socialist, and have been for decades. What we aren't is full blown despotic socialist.
We're socialist? Could have fooled me. Let me know where I can pick up equitable ownership of my company's means of production.

Government does a thing is not the definition of socialism. I got my Poli Sci degree at State, so if you disagree you are insulting our fine university.

Since I notice the definition slapfight while scanning through this post, let me clear things up for you:

Socialism: Worker ownership of the means of production with a democratized workplace.
Communism: STATE ownership of the means of production with a centrally planned economy.
BOTH abolish the concept of private property (not personal property, as commerce and home ownership would still exist)

Things that are NOT Socialist or Communist: Universal Healthcare, Social Security, Welfare. Those are Social Programs. Socialism and Communism are economic systems. There is a huge difference and just because one side has been forcing the "evolution" of the terms so that the original words have lost all meaning to your average dolt doesn't mean those words don't mean what they've always meant. Your refusal to use them correctly doesn't change that.
I'm not inventing it. I'm using the strict traditional definition, not the modern evolved one that you are using.
No you aren't. According to who?
 

Boom Boom

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Sep 29, 2022
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You're right, I can't. Because I don't believe the police do this as a large percentage. And I don't think you make rules based on a small percentage, you simply punish the small percentage. And I'm talking like 98-2 ratio here.

When you do stupid ****, expect stupid outcomes. I've neqver had one negative dealing with the police that didn't involve me doing some stupid ****. Same thing with all these videos and shootings and such. In 98% of the cases there is some stupid **** going down beforehand.
Then the problem is your eyes are shut, because the evidence of this problem is EVERYWHERE.
 

OG Goat Holder

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Sep 30, 2022
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Then the problem is your eyes are shut, because the evidence of this problem is EVERYWHERE.
Well, like I said, this is why I can't cross the aisle to come to your side. Because I honestly have no idea how you can come to this conclusion. I guess we can cliche 'agree to disagree', but I'd really like to get inside your head to see where this wiring comes from. I'd like examples too, rather than "yOuR eYeS aRe ShUt". Because to me yours may be open, but they see only what they want to see.
 
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Cantdoitsal

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Sep 26, 2022
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Term limits won't help much - it'll just created a revolving door of political influencers who have no idea what they're doing.

You gotta get rid of the sources of influence first - end most lobbying, end Citizen's United, outlaw SuperPACs, and publicly fund elections. This way, politicians will have to win on their records rather than their massive war chests.

There needs to be a push for ranked choice voting like they have in Alaska and Maine. The instant runoffs will save people a ton of time and money and it will make it so that the two parties won't be able to threaten folks into voting for them because WHAT IF YOUR THIRD PARTY VOTE PUTS THE OTHER GUY IN OFFICE?!?!?

Strong agree. Gotta move elections over to being publicly funded and require all politicians to have a cavity search level of tax/income audit every single year.

This should 100% be done. Districts drawn to give one party juuuuuuust enough leeway that they only have to worry about their primary election disenfranchises about 47% of their district and leads to an increase in extremist policies.

This is hilarious because if the ruling on Moore v. Harper goes how I think it will, we're much more likely going to have a Christian Theocratic White Ethnostate. Red state legislatures that have gerrymandred their way into unassailable, veto proof majorities are chomping at the bit to be able to throw out federal election results that they don't like, and the Independent State Legislature theory of governance would give them the ability to do that.

Correct, all of those institutions are awful. We do have a way out that can get bipartisan support and make the powers that be sweat - ranked choice voting like the have in Alaska and Maine. The instant runoffs will save people a ton of time and money and it will make it so that the two parties won't be able to threaten folks into voting for them because WHAT IF YOUR THIRD PARTY VOTE PUTS THE OTHER GUY IN OFFICE?!?!?

Lord knows I only vote D because the right has lost their goddamned minds on many issues even though the Dems are just the party of status quo and keeps their progress to symbolic gestures carried out by geriatrics with a death grip on power.

Dems are not in favor of open borders. There were significantly more border arrests and quick deportations under Obama and now under Biden than there were under Trump.

We're socialist? Could have fooled me. Let me know where I can pick up equitable ownership of my company's means of production.

Government does a thing is not the definition of socialism. I got my Poli Sci degree at State, so if you disagree you are insulting our fine university.

Since I notice the definition slapfight while scanning through this post, let me clear things up for you:

Socialism: Worker ownership of the means of production with a democratized workplace.
Communism: STATE ownership of the means of production with a centrally planned economy.
BOTH abolish the concept of private property (not personal property, as commerce and home ownership would still exist)

Things that are NOT Socialist or Communist: Universal Healthcare, Social Security, Welfare. Those are Social Programs. Socialism and Communism are economic systems. There is a huge difference and just because one side has been forcing the "evolution" of the terms so that the original words have lost all meaning to your average dolt doesn't mean those words don't mean what they've always meant. Your refusal to use them correctly doesn't change that.

No you aren't. According to who?
BULL. SCHIT. On your BS regarding illegal aliens. Biden totally dismantled Trump's Border Policies that were WORKING and THAT's why we have the current Disaster going on right now. POLICIES dictate how many illegals attempt to cross and Trump's policies sent a CLEAR message that you are gonna have a tough time getting your illegal a$$ in. 5 MILLION have entered since Team Biden took office which is the population of Ireland. In less than 2 Years, Biden has racked over 1 Million more than Trump's entire administration including over 2 Million in 2022 Alone. Scrapping Trump's "Remain in Mexico" & Title 42 and you don't think Dems love them some Open Borders? Get that Schit outta here.
 

ababyatemydingo

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Imagine the poor sap that has to author them!
They're written by special interests and pieced together. Not the Senator or Congressman's staff. I'm friends with a DC lobbyist. We've had many long discussions of how the sausage is made. 85% of the time, the Senator or Congressman has absolutely zero idea what they voted for or against. It's all about pleasing the lobbyists (who represent the big money in the US). Cozy up tight with the lobbyists, and when they're done with their $174,000 salary in Congress, they will make ten times that as a lobbyist themselves. The whole system is rotten to the core. Honestly don't know how it will ever get fixed, outside of a complete meltdown of the USA
 
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OG Goat Holder

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They're written by special interests and pieced together. Not the Senator or Congressman's staff. I'm friends with a DC lobbyist. We've had many long discussions of how the sausage is made. 85% of the time, the Senator or Congressman has absolutely zero idea what they voted for or against. It's all about pleasing the lobbyists (who represent the big money in the US). Cozy up tight with the lobbyists, and when they're done with their $174,000 salary in Congress, they will make ten times that as a lobbyist themselves. The whole system is rotten to the core. Honestly don't know how it will ever get fixed, outside of a complete meltdown of the USA
This is correct, so why do the swamp-drainers keep talking like they are going to make a difference and don't want bills passed?
 

horshack.sixpack

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They're written by special interests and pieced together. Not the Senator or Congressman's staff. I'm friends with a DC lobbyist. We've had many long discussions of how the sausage is made. 85% of the time, the Senator or Congressman has absolutely zero idea what they voted for or against. It's all about pleasing the lobbyists (who represent the big money in the US). Cozy up tight with the lobbyists, and when they're done with their $174,000 salary in Congress, they will make ten times that as a lobbyist themselves. The whole system is rotten to the core. Honestly don't know how it will ever get fixed, outside of a complete meltdown of the USA
Thanks for that insight. From what little view I have into the system it is lobbyists who seem to benefit the most from doing the least, Other than having to be constantly in the middle of political BS. I’d rather be shot. In MS, it’s just sad. Lotta people fighting to be big fish in a tiny pond and many seem oblivious to the fact that they are actually very, very small potatoes.
 

Boom Boom

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Well, like I said, this is why I can't cross the aisle to come to your side. Because I honestly have no idea how you can come to this conclusion. I guess we can cliche 'agree to disagree', but I'd really like to get inside your head to see where this wiring comes from. I'd like examples too, rather than "yOuR eYeS aRe ShUt". Because to me yours may be open, but they see only what they want to see.
I can provide more examples than you will be willing to read, I guarantee you that. As well as stats. How many will be enough?

But the bigger question is, if these things are so rare and so not a problem, why the resistance? For example, mandating state investigating agencies investigate police shootings, and not their buddies on their local PD, as MS does with the MBI, is fiercely resisted. Why, if not corruption? Why is firing dirty cops and ensuring they don't just jump jobs to the next town over so bitterly resisted?

As far as getting in my head on the issue, I don't believe I am free if my freedom depends on luck of the draw of a dirty cop or not. If I decide to film an officer because he is doing something he shouldn't be, the cops shouldn't be able to harm me for it in unaccountable retribution. If they can, I'm not free. And they do, on the regular, for those of us with our eyes open.
 

Maroon Eagle

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I’m talking about us being a net drain on the federal government taking way more than we pay in. Federal government pays for a lot of what we take for granted, roads being one. I’ve never seen anyone so up in arms about getting federal money that they wouldn’t use the roads to prove they are truly independent, but feed a few poor folks and whoa what are we thinking here folks? Can’t have a bunch of mooches. I’m suggesting that if you live in MS anywhere, except maybe off the grid using no resources but what you find on your land, you are taking federal welfare.
Now don’t be bringing logic to a SPS argument.

All that matters is shouting the most.

Why else do you think Festivus is so popular here?

Speaking of which…

George Costanza Festival GIF
 
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Maroon Eagle

Well-known member
May 24, 2006
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I agree with you by definition, but you would come across differently if you weren't trying to be so argumentative.

@OG Goat Holder — I’m sorry but I had to laugh when I saw your response to @L4Dawg considering that you’re known to sometimes be argumentative too. 😂😂😂

By the way, I generally agree with both of y’all regarding socialism in the United States and whatever differences we may have should largely be a matter of semantics.
 
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