Polk didn't make a regional until his third year, as did Cohen. Polk didn't win a regional until year four. Cohen did it in year three.
Granted, two very different eras.
Granted, two very different eras.
Ron Polk I vs John Cohen
- Thread starter Todd4State
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Completely different era. Baseball is multiple times more competitive now than in the late 70's.
Fan support, which is directly related to success, at MSU for baseball began before Polk, contrary to popular belief. He ran with something that no one else had except maybe your Arizonia State's, Southern Cal's or Texas' etc. Now baseball is more important to many more schools.
To be honest Polk should have had more success than he had with the advantages at his disposal. Those advantages have now been greatly diluted.
Fan support, which is directly related to success, at MSU for baseball began before Polk, contrary to popular belief. He ran with something that no one else had except maybe your Arizonia State's, Southern Cal's or Texas' etc. Now baseball is more important to many more schools.
To be honest Polk should have had more success than he had with the advantages at his disposal. Those advantages have now been greatly diluted.
MSU was waaaaay ahead of most of the country in our support of baseball in just about every way. Polk definitely under achieved and we`ll just have to see what Cohen does. So far it looks promising but he (Cohen) has a much more competeitive enviroment facing him than Polk had.
In the early Polk years we were the only SEC school that even remotely gave a **** about baseball. And, as you point out, there weren't more than 10 schools nationally that cared about it. That changed when LSU saw that we were drawing big crowds and making money and decided to hire Skip Bertman in 1986.dawgoneyall said:
overcompensate for Polk but when he started the SEChad saddleditself with different rules thanthe NCAA including the max 28 game schedule and the SEC allowed freshman to play and the NCAA did not. Therefore when a player became a senior many times he was ineligible for District (prior name for regionals) play. Our 1971 CWS team lost two pitchers that had played as freshman. Texas, USC (West), Arizona State, FSU, Oklahoma State etc all played 70-85 games per year. There was no limit. It took Polk several years (5 or moreI think) to somewhat equalize the playing field to the current standard 56 game schedule. The NCAA field was only 32 and then 48 in Polks first few years and we always seemed to get the 6 team regional vs the 4 team reserved for perinnial powers. Regionals used to be more kin to supers of today. So to compare Polks first regional to Cohens first regional is apples to oranges. Once the playing field was somewhat level, he did had a couple of bad breaks, see Gene Morgan 1985 CWS. With all this said, he still should have at least 1-2 Natl Champs.
First, Polk wasn't there in 1971. Paul Gregory was.
Second, that's not even the right year. We won the SEC, and District III in 1971, to go to the CWS for the first time in MSU history, with our pitching staff intact.
1970 was the year that we lost the 2 pitchers because they had played as freshmen. We also lost our starting first baseman and third baseman. We lost the Disrtrict championship to FSU, and they went on to finish 2nd (to USC, of course). As far as I know, this is the only time that happened to us. (Gregory must have lost a hell of a lot from his SEC championship team in 1966 to have had to start 4 freshmen in 1967.)
Polk didn't coach his first MSU team until 1976, and he did want to be Miami and USC in baseball, and the SEC did pass legislation limiting scheduled games to something like 40 games. He was fighting with the SEC before the NCAA. And by 1978, his first year to make a regional, the NCAA tourney had expanded to 48 teams. His first 2 years, and when Gregory was coaching, you had to win the SEC to make the tourney. One SEC team, not 8. Then there was 1994, when we were 15-12 in the conference, and didn't make a regional. So, yes, apples and oranges.
1985 was the only year that I thought that we really should have won the CWS, except maybe 1979 when we beat eventual champion CSF in the first game, or 1983 when we had to go to Austin for a 6 team regional and ran out of pitching after beating TX to get into the winner's bracket, and UT and Bama played for the championship. (Good chance we'd have run out of pitching in the CWS too.) The biggest disappointment for me was the '89 team not making the CWS, but that team probably didn't have the pitching to win if it had gotten there either, a constant refrain of Polk teams.
Second, that's not even the right year. We won the SEC, and District III in 1971, to go to the CWS for the first time in MSU history, with our pitching staff intact.
1970 was the year that we lost the 2 pitchers because they had played as freshmen. We also lost our starting first baseman and third baseman. We lost the Disrtrict championship to FSU, and they went on to finish 2nd (to USC, of course). As far as I know, this is the only time that happened to us. (Gregory must have lost a hell of a lot from his SEC championship team in 1966 to have had to start 4 freshmen in 1967.)
Polk didn't coach his first MSU team until 1976, and he did want to be Miami and USC in baseball, and the SEC did pass legislation limiting scheduled games to something like 40 games. He was fighting with the SEC before the NCAA. And by 1978, his first year to make a regional, the NCAA tourney had expanded to 48 teams. His first 2 years, and when Gregory was coaching, you had to win the SEC to make the tourney. One SEC team, not 8. Then there was 1994, when we were 15-12 in the conference, and didn't make a regional. So, yes, apples and oranges.
1985 was the only year that I thought that we really should have won the CWS, except maybe 1979 when we beat eventual champion CSF in the first game, or 1983 when we had to go to Austin for a 6 team regional and ran out of pitching after beating TX to get into the winner's bracket, and UT and Bama played for the championship. (Good chance we'd have run out of pitching in the CWS too.) The biggest disappointment for me was the '89 team not making the CWS, but that team probably didn't have the pitching to win if it had gotten there either, a constant refrain of Polk teams.
Coach Gregory was coach in 1971. My point was that the old rules were still in effect when Polk came in 1976. I don't understand your comment of wrong year. We both say 1971 was the 1st CWS for MSU. Obviously your screen name indicates you to be from the era being discussed. Coach Gregory came in 2nd in the SEC 1970 and went to a regional. I have to agree with your last paragraph, I just didn't go into detail.
Weren't Phil Still and Bobby Croswell seniors in 1971 who had played as freshmen?
Weren't Phil Still and Bobby Croswell seniors in 1971 who had played as freshmen?