Sharon would have been a fantastic location. Never heard that. Imagine Canton if MSU had been next door…
School decisions that could have shaped MS.....
- Thread starter OG Goat Holder
- Start date
Certainly not shocking that some good ole boy dealings went into locating it in Starkville. Agree that Madison County could have been great. Oh well, it's been happening ever since.
Another thing I've always wondered is why they pumped a high-speed highway right between Starkville and MSU. For as much as they seemed to "want it" in the 1870s, they've sure seemed to have an adversarial relationship since then. Until recently (hopefully).
Another thing I've always wondered is why they pumped a high-speed highway right between Starkville and MSU. For as much as they seemed to "want it" in the 1870s, they've sure seemed to have an adversarial relationship since then. Until recently (hopefully).
Easiest decision to me would have been to have 2 major schools, one north one south. Having tsun and MSU so close and both north was asinine from day 1.
Yeah the most surprising to me were Sharon and McComb -- with as much as McComb offered in incentives (significantly more than anyone else) I wonder why they were never chosen. Along with the fact of today's population in that area (South MS, NOLA, BR) and access to the interstate system, I wonder how it would have been different.
Ha thanks! I am a huge history buff and really can go down rabbit holes reading old newspapers. Figured I would use it to search for anything MSU. I've learned a lot about our athletic programs thru those newspapers.
Thanks for sharing your research with us. Interesting read and many what ifs in there. Agree that McComb looked like the obvious choice but then there was this seemingly random set of requirements earlier Guessing things worked back then like they do now .... seemingly random until you get under the covers.
May 1, 1878 -- it came out that in order to be considered for the new state college, it must first be in East Mississippi and on the M&O Railroad, 3rd at the point of good soil, climate and endowment. Under those conditions the choice would lie between Meridian and West Point.
Yeah, it was posted in multiple newspapers and for about 3 weeks I read that same set of requirements. Okolona, West point and Columbus were mentioned as possible spots. Columbus was called the most beautiful city in Mississippi.
Many people don't remember but we had a railroad thru Starkville that came up from Newton, Columbus and Greenville railroad that obviously went between the two and interchanged in West Point. The railroad thru Starkville went to Ackerman which then went North, South towards Louisville and west to meet between Durant and Goodman. A lot of emphasis was placed on the railroads and their ability to carry passengers with ease. But so many what ifs.
State and UM still need to merge. The only real question is if we would be able to generate more revenue as one entity versus two. I believe we would because the new arrangement would create an annual title contender in many sports with big-time draft picks coming out each year. That success would attract a lot of new money.
In agreement with @OG Goat Holder...this is good material (and excellent research) and is alignment with some of the mythology I'd heard from elder generations on the formation / establishment of MSU.
FWIW - In versions I'd heard from my elders, the individual(s?) advocating for Starkville (Montgomery and/or Bell) to be the site lobbied each of the trustees individually asking that that they vote for Starkville because it had "no chance" of getting over the sites in the running. Their vote would legitimze Starkville as an economic development site. (Again, this is third/fourth hand from 2 generations before me.)
Nonetheless -- excellent work @jaredtphoto
This is echoed (with less vitriol) in other books on the "War Between The States"
Understood. I included NC because their legislature was visionary, and some leader took hits for land donations to form RTP and Centennial Park (NC State). The critics in NC of the political leadership then are eating crown today (if still alive). NC is what SC "aspires" to more like (or so it seems).
Everything on the south Atlantic Coast and Gulf Coast will be vulnerable to storms. My opinion is that this is a generally accepted cost of doing business. Hurricanes haven't slowed Florida.
That said I wouldn't rush to build a bunch of windfarms on the Coast or in the Pine Belt; however, I think you've itemized the assets for the most part. (Camp Shelby should be "Fort" Shelby...which would be transformational. Unfortunately this hasn't happened....yet)
Ahh...so Baptist are riff-raft.....damn didn't know that.
You are so smart......
No. MSU was located here because it was a big agricultural area of the state and Mr Darden donated it.
Lots in the Black Prairie. Starkville, Columbus, West Point, Okolona, Aberdeen, Shannon. The main cotton belt of north Mississippi.
Not what I said. I said Baptist Culture strikes again, wanting to keep our college kids away from that devil's water (and the accompanying riff raff). Baptist Culture loves siloing folks away from the real world.
It's weird too. I haven't noticed an increased in sinful behavior at our sporting events since around 2019? What gives?
In what way did the state government not care about Jackson? I think certainly there were legislators from other parts of the state that thought Jackson already got the lion's share of benefits from state government (which doesn't seem like a crazy position to take considering all the state jobs there). But what was the state government supposed to do that it hasn't to make Jackson better? It couldn't exactly just take over the city of Jackson once incompetent leadership took hold. Hell, people are bitching about the state government being heavy handed now when the city can't even provide clean water and sewer.
The only obvious thing is that they should have done school choice once Jackson city schools turned ******, but that has been stopped by people that have a emotional connection to public run schools over publicly funded education. Doesn't have anything to do with not caring about Jackson. For the most part, Jackson had every advantage the state could give them except for a major university. The residents of Jackson just 17ed up all the advantages they had.
Too much influence from Ole Miss attorneys in the legislature over the years. It's truly amazing how much the rivalry between Ole Miss and State and the general little penis syndrome of Ole Miss has hampered Mississippi. We have too many universities mainly because they thought the people that actually do work and make things possible were beneath landowners. Seems like practically every decision made by Ole Miss connected politicians until the late 80's or early 90's was viewed through the lens of either (1) what is best for Ole Miss/worst for MSU or (2) what comes closest to maintaining segregation.
Don't want to speak for him, but metaphorically, he's right. I'm sure the local Jackson area legislators, and TateR himself (and other governors), DO care for Jackson a great deal. But most of the rest of the legislators are just a reflection of the public (like catvet) and they would rather move the capital or talk about public schools in New Albany or some shlt, rather than see how important Jackson really is to the state's success.
But that's no different than any other city. Legislators from there care about it; legislators away from there don't particularly care unless they have some special connection.
I just don't get what people are thinking the state legislature should have done to save Jackson from itself. Like I said, school choice could have kept some employed parents from moving for affordable schools. Beyond that? What? Start the CCID earlier? Great, but there was a political reason it had to get so bad before that could get done. What do people think the legislature should have done and why do they think it wasn't done because there was some special animosity or lack of care from the state government.
Tell my wife every time we drive over to Columbus how great it would have been had State been located there. Just a significantly more charming location and town in many ways. Thanks again for the research and interesting read.
It's not. For lack of a better phrase, it's just sort of a 'left-leaning' perspective. Don't want to fully blame the city, so have to blame the big bad state government, of course. But the answer to your question of what could they have done? Care more.
I'm not saying they are supposed to care more (and I'm certainly near the point of not giving a 17 myself so I can't judge them), but that's the answer to the question.
where do you find the old newspapers to read? Mitchell Memorial Library??
Great info!
Ole Miss (and Alcorn) was originally designated the land grant school in MS. It went over like a lead balloon and the Ag program there collapsed after three years. They didn't want the "help" going to school with them, and the "help" didn't want to. If it had flown you would probably be looking at Ole Miss as THE big school in Mississippi and something like USM down south.
Welp, 4 months later, appears the Brightwell/W/etc. issue is over and neva gonna happen.
We've landed 2 big projects, only one of which will benefit MS in a big way (Amazon). So we're 1 for 3, fairly typical I guess.
The one in Marshall County will benefit MS. Much more so than if it was sitting across the line in TN. The people that work there will pay Mississippi Taxes no matter where they live.
Sure it will. But we spent a ton of capital on a project that is essentially Memphis. Same situation kind of applies to Ingall's in Pascagoula - great that we have it, but it employs a lot of Mobile people. Same with Stennis and Louisiana.
I want the most bang for the buck as possible. I want the workers to live AND pay taxes in MS. The ones listed above are good, but we really need to spend our limited recruiting resources on things that benefit MS first and foremost. But, you take what you can get, I suppose.
Concur with this^^^^
We have several employees in my organization who work in TN, but actually live in MS. I'm assuming due to overall lower COL in Destoto County vs the Memphis burbs.
It's the other way around. Ole Miss tried to start an A&M school after the war and no one showed up. ""{B]ecause the sons of the industrial classes didn't want to go up to Ole Miss, where they would have to go to school with the sons of the gentry."
The Sharon location is very similar to the Auburn selection in Alabama.
Sharon (in current Madison County) had a small college named Madison College and a lot of land. It made a lot of sense to put MSU there. (Read about Madison College) The Civil War shut it down but there were apparently buildings in good order that a new A&M college could get started and build out. All accounts I have read said that this was the best spot, but political pressure moved it to Starkville.
in Alabama, there was a small college named Crews College (Read about it). It was in what is now Lamar County (just east of Columbus, MS). East Alabama Male College was in Auburn and both competed for the land grant status. Believe it or not, that area of Alabama that is forgotten today had a lot of political clout. William Bankhead, who became Speaker of the House was born not two miles west of Crews in Moscow (now Sulligent).
In 1899, East Alabama Male College became the Auburn Polytechnic Institute (now Auburn). Crews College burned down and was not rebuilt.
Just think if Auburn would have been there. You would have had Auburn, Alabama and Mississippi State all within 60-80 miles of each other.
Sharon (in current Madison County) had a small college named Madison College and a lot of land. It made a lot of sense to put MSU there. (Read about Madison College) The Civil War shut it down but there were apparently buildings in good order that a new A&M college could get started and build out. All accounts I have read said that this was the best spot, but political pressure moved it to Starkville.
in Alabama, there was a small college named Crews College (Read about it). It was in what is now Lamar County (just east of Columbus, MS). East Alabama Male College was in Auburn and both competed for the land grant status. Believe it or not, that area of Alabama that is forgotten today had a lot of political clout. William Bankhead, who became Speaker of the House was born not two miles west of Crews in Moscow (now Sulligent).
In 1899, East Alabama Male College became the Auburn Polytechnic Institute (now Auburn). Crews College burned down and was not rebuilt.
Just think if Auburn would have been there. You would have had Auburn, Alabama and Mississippi State all within 60-80 miles of each other.
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