So pat....

[DowntownDawg]

.....you (and others) inundated this board with a bunch of anti-Cohen crap all year long. For the most part, when we won, you were quiet, and when we lost, you crowed. You downplayed last year's accomplishments and yelled about it being "Year 4."

To revisit last year for a moment, Cohen takes a team that had won 9, 9, and 6 games, and gets 14 wins out of them. Somehow, that's not significant to you.

Here's what we had in the lineup last year....

Parks .363
Vickerson .319
Bradford .303
Shepherd .289
Freeman .282
Brownlee .279
Norris .277
<span style="font-weight: bold;">Frazier .274</span>
Ogden .259
Collins .252
Thigpen .237
Johnson .232

Those are our top 12 hitters from 2011. We have one guy, ONE GUY, who does not get injured and gets in a full season at the plate. And he puts up huge numbers. Bradford was never right. Norris started out on a tear and has not been right since his injury. Brownlee has not been right all year. And the rest we lose to graduation. Yet you and a few others gripe about how Cohen is not getting the job done in year 4, while totally ignoring the circumstances. That was some of the most ignorant drivel this board has ever seen.

Amazingly, Cohen gets us to 16-14 by sweeping a top 5 team. The SEC champ won it at 19 games. As 615 posted, we had countless games that we were close enough to win on. We were very close to being a top team in this league despite the amazing rash of injuries and the losses due to graduation.

Here are some more numbers for you. The last time we went .500 in this league was 5 years ago. Chew on that. We have been sub .500 since 2007 and we get it done with the above circumstances. Before that, it was 2003. So Cohen gets us over .500 for the 3rd time in a decade The last time we won more than 17 games was 1997. 15 years ago. Our last SEC championship was 1989.

And then finally, if you watched or listened and kept up with anything other than live stats, you would see that Cohen has gotten a bunch of guys to buy in. They never quit. They really are mentally tougher or as tough as the competition. It was such a stark turnaround from the basketball meltdown and Polk's last few teams (2007 being the exception) and they have been a bunch of guys that are fun to pull for.

Point being, you are normally a reasonable poster. It's time for you to admit you were totally wrong and get on the Co-Co bandwagon for the rest of this year and beyond. He's has absolutely turned this baseball program around from the depths of hell. 9 wins, 6 wins, 14 wins and a Super, 16 wins.....we're obviously headed in the right direction. A fool can see that.

 

[DowntownDawg]

.....you (and others) inundated this board with a bunch of anti-Cohen crap all year long. For the most part, when we won, you were quiet, and when we lost, you crowed. You downplayed last year's accomplishments and yelled about it being "Year 4."

To revisit last year for a moment, Cohen takes a team that had won 9, 9, and 6 games, and gets 14 wins out of them. Somehow, that's not significant to you.

Here's what we had in the lineup last year....

Parks .363
Vickerson .319
Bradford .303
Shepherd .289
Freeman .282
Brownlee .279
Norris .277
<span style="font-weight: bold;">Frazier .274</span>
Ogden .259
Collins .252
Thigpen .237
Johnson .232

Those are our top 12 hitters from 2011. We have one guy, ONE GUY, who does not get injured and gets in a full season at the plate. And he puts up huge numbers. Bradford was never right. Norris started out on a tear and has not been right since his injury. Brownlee has not been right all year. And the rest we lose to graduation. Yet you and a few others gripe about how Cohen is not getting the job done in year 4, while totally ignoring the circumstances. That was some of the most ignorant drivel this board has ever seen.

Amazingly, Cohen gets us to 16-14 by sweeping a top 5 team. The SEC champ won it at 19 games. As 615 posted, we had countless games that we were close enough to win on. We were very close to being a top team in this league despite the amazing rash of injuries and the losses due to graduation.

Here are some more numbers for you. The last time we went .500 in this league was 5 years ago. Chew on that. We have been sub .500 since 2007 and we get it done with the above circumstances. Before that, it was 2003. So Cohen gets us over .500 for the 3rd time in a decade The last time we won more than 17 games was 1997. 15 years ago. Our last SEC championship was 1989.

And then finally, if you watched or listened and kept up with anything other than live stats, you would see that Cohen has gotten a bunch of guys to buy in. They never quit. They really are mentally tougher or as tough as the competition. It was such a stark turnaround from the basketball meltdown and Polk's last few teams (2007 being the exception) and they have been a bunch of guys that are fun to pull for.

Point being, you are normally a reasonable poster. It's time for you to admit you were totally wrong and get on the Co-Co bandwagon for the rest of this year and beyond. He's has absolutely turned this baseball program around from the depths of hell. 9 wins, 6 wins, 14 wins and a Super, 16 wins.....we're obviously headed in the right direction. A fool can see that.

 

[DowntownDawg]

.....you (and others) inundated this board with a bunch of anti-Cohen crap all year long. For the most part, when we won, you were quiet, and when we lost, you crowed. You downplayed last year's accomplishments and yelled about it being "Year 4."

To revisit last year for a moment, Cohen takes a team that had won 9, 9, and 6 games, and gets 14 wins out of them. Somehow, that's not significant to you.

Here's what we had in the lineup last year....

Parks .363
Vickerson .319
Bradford .303
Shepherd .289
Freeman .282
Brownlee .279
Norris .277
<span style="font-weight: bold;">Frazier .274</span>
Ogden .259
Collins .252
Thigpen .237
Johnson .232

Those are our top 12 hitters from 2011. We have one guy, ONE GUY, who does not get injured and gets in a full season at the plate. And he puts up huge numbers. Bradford was never right. Norris started out on a tear and has not been right since his injury. Brownlee has not been right all year. And the rest we lose to graduation. Yet you and a few others gripe about how Cohen is not getting the job done in year 4, while totally ignoring the circumstances. That was some of the most ignorant drivel this board has ever seen.

Amazingly, Cohen gets us to 16-14 by sweeping a top 5 team. The SEC champ won it at 19 games. As 615 posted, we had countless games that we were close enough to win on. We were very close to being a top team in this league despite the amazing rash of injuries and the losses due to graduation.

Here are some more numbers for you. The last time we went .500 in this league was 5 years ago. Chew on that. We have been sub .500 since 2007 and we get it done with the above circumstances. Before that, it was 2003. So Cohen gets us over .500 for the 3rd time in a decade The last time we won more than 17 games was 1997. 15 years ago. Our last SEC championship was 1989.

And then finally, if you watched or listened and kept up with anything other than live stats, you would see that Cohen has gotten a bunch of guys to buy in. They never quit. They really are mentally tougher or as tough as the competition. It was such a stark turnaround from the basketball meltdown and Polk's last few teams (2007 being the exception) and they have been a bunch of guys that are fun to pull for.

Point being, you are normally a reasonable poster. It's time for you to admit you were totally wrong and get on the Co-Co bandwagon for the rest of this year and beyond. He's has absolutely turned this baseball program around from the depths of hell. 9 wins, 6 wins, 14 wins and a Super, 16 wins.....we're obviously headed in the right direction. A fool can see that.

 

[Shmuley]

People are skeptical because in year 4 this team hits like teenage girls. I watch Wes Rea at the plate and my first thought is "Who is this MFer's hitting 'coach?'"

These are legit observations.

But, there's no mistaking that the bastard gets the job done late. As I pointed out in the KY series prediction thread, anyone who bets against this MFer getting it done when it has to get done is a fool.

 

[FlabLoser]

And all this reminds me of Polk's last CWS season. The day before the regional against FSU started, we all wanted Polk fired. We win 2 there and we're all shell shocked. Then Larry T out-bids Clemson (let that sink in) to host the super. Overnight its 1985 all over again.

 

[DowntownDawg]

....Ron got one last lucky hurrah in. He seemed mystified himself. The next year the wheels fall off and we go 9-21. I can promise you we won't go 9-21 next year.

Cohen is on the upswing. Polk had one more blaze of glory in a 5 year steep decline. It was obvious we didn't belong in 2007.

 

[Coach34]

People are skeptical because in year 4 this team hits like teenage girls. I watch Wes Rea at the plate and my first thought is "Who is this MFer's hitting 'coach?'"

These are legit observations.

But, there's no mistaking that the bastard gets the job done late. As I pointed out in the KY series prediction thread, anyone who bets against this MFer getting it done when it has to get done is a fool.

Why they dont spread that big bastard's stance out and make him eliminate all that worthless movement at the plate is a huge mystery. He needs to be a RH'ed Trey Porter at the plate.

And you're right about Cohen. Nearly everyone underestimated the shittiness that Polk left him to get cleaned up- and it was a tough 2 years. But its obvious enough now that even Patdog can see that we made the right hire and he has us on a good program track. We are a legit SEC program again.

 

[FlabLoser]

I'm not supporting Polk. I'm only pointing out how bi-polar the board is.

 

[DowntownDawg]

nm

 

[Maroon Eagle]

...it's been this way at least since all the way back to dawgnews.

 

[RobbieRandolph]

There was no chance we weren't getting that Super.

 

[patdog]

Cohen has done a good job overall this year. I'm still concerned about the offense. I realize we lost a lot of starters from last year, but these are experienced backups taking their place not true freshmen. And they're not just a bad hitting team, they're a terrible hitting team. I still think the SEC is a little down this year (we'll see if I'm right about that after the regionals - I could be wrong). But Cohen's done a good job so far. This is 2 solid seasons in a row. We've still no better than Polk II was until the very end. We need to take the next step, but 2 solid seasons is at least a foundation to build on, and that's a lot more than we had when we hired Cohen.

 

[FlabLoser]

Probably right after he voted against cowbells.

 

[thatsbaseball]

for being so awful for asking toughquestions, critisizingcoaches, etc.please cite an example of a D1 university that we should model ourselves after as fans. Do any of you actually think our fanbase is unique in any way ?

 

[maroonmania]

Butch Thompson. I will freely admit that mid way through last year I was sincerely questioning if he was the right guy to run our pitching staff and maybe we should go ahead and make a change there. But there is no denying the results this year and the job he has done gelling this staff together and helping to get Stratton's head back on straight. Our pitching staff this year is sick (in a good way) and Butch has to be given a lot of credit for that.

 

[RobbieRandolph]

..

 

[DowntownDawg]

....in our infield. Frazier had 95 at bats last year. That's 1.5 per game. Norris had 94, but he was out a good portion of this year and was hurt when he played. Frost had 38. Britton was brand new, Rea was brand new.

That's a very inexperienced infield.

The outfield was not much better. It shoud've been, had Bradford and Brownlee stayed healthy. As it was, we either usually had a hurt Brownlee or a hurt Bradford out there. Renfroe got no meaningful playing time last year. Fullerton was brand new. Henderson was brand new.

None of our position players were very experienced at all, outside of maybe Frazier and Norris, and Norris has been hurt. Fullerton didn't even stand to make the roster and had to be called to come down to play at LSU.

So your statement on our experience is just wrong.

I don't care about the "down SEC." It's still the top league in the nation.

As far as Polk II goes, outside of his fluke CWS appearance, he won 17 games once. The rest of the time he won 14, 13, 13, 12, and 15 in the year of the CWS. And he won 14 and 17 with Patty Mac's players, most importantly Maholm and Paps who he couldn't get us out of a hosted regional with. With his guys, he won 13, 13, 12, and 15. The fact that Cohen has taken mostly his guys and won 14 and now 16 makes me think that he has surpassed what Polk had done with his own players (again, except the fluke CWS). So I think that argument is extremely weak. Polk was left some talent and benefited from it. Cohen was left one of the biggest messes in college athletics and has cleaned it up and has us relevant again.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

...it's just that MSU fans have long loved to argue with one another about sports. That's all. I think that it's a good thing because it means we care about Mississippi State and its athletics programs.

 

[fishwater99]

How in the Hell are we not in the top tier of the SEC this year? We need to be in the CWS and winning it by now under Cohen..
He needs to get out of town after this year if he can't get it done..*

 

[patdog]

you've got to be able to produce more than what these guys have produced. Right off the bat.

As for Polk II, Cohen's 14 and 16 wins the last 2 years fit right in with Polk II's record (remember the CWS year we were 15-13, which is actually slightly better than this year's 16-14). </p>

 

[DowntownDawg]

....to "you've got to be able to come in and contribute, even if you haven't had any playing time." Again, extremely weak.

As I posted above. Polk won more than 13 games 3 times. He won 14 in his first year back (with Mac's players), 17 the next year ( with Mac's players), and 15 in 2007. Cohen inherited a group that won him 9 games and 6 games. Taking away the first two years, Polk won more than 13 games one time, when he won 15 in 2007.

Can't you see how the trends are going? Polk inherits good players, wins some, then tanks. Cohen inherits a pile of crap, loses some, then climbs.

 

[MSDawg34]

Rea and Henderson were not brand new, they both are RS meaning they had an entire year to progress. Frazier has been on campus the exact same amount of time, so don't tell me it can't be done. 2nd year players produce all the time, in this conference and others. Look at Mike Zunino last year.

 

[MSDawg34]

to produce until their junior year?

Year 1- Freshman: Backup
Year 2- Sophomore: Starts- but can't be expected to do too much, he's never played
Year 3: Junor: Okay now I expect something

That's not how college ball works

 

[DowntownDawg]

The guys that got any meaningful experience were frazier and norris. Bioth played great this year when healthy,

That redshirt bs is garbage. Don't care how red your shirt is if you haven't seen SEC pitching.

 

[patdog]

They've been in the program for at least 2 fall practices and one full season BEFORE this year even started (or in the case of a JUCO transfer has 2 years of experience playing post-HS). Of course they don't all have 250 at-bats. They were backups. But they've had a hell of a lot of practices and coaching by Cohen and whoever our hitting coach is. And that should have done some good. MSDawg34 is absolutely correct. Your whole argument boils down to you can't expect players to produce until their JR season. And that's a recipe for a losing program in college baseball. The pitching has been fantastic this year, better than even the most optimistic posters thought. But it's not going to be this good next year (it will still be good though). We've got to get better offensive production in the future if this program is going to be successful. And we've got to get it before a player's 3rd year in the program.

 

[engie]

You should've thought this one through a little better.

Is Mike Zunino supposed to be a good example here? The #1 collegiate position player in the country is what you use for evidence! Nevermind that his situation is completely dissimilar to our two players you compare him to. Zunino started 51 games as a freshman in 2010, was a freshman all-american, and played in a SR and CWS before ever starting his soph season.

Rea has been INJURED the vast majority of this season, limiting productivity. Since alot of people on here don't seem to understand the implications of injury, let me lay this out there for people. Players that are injured in games are still injured when it comes time to practice. If it f'n hurts to swing a bat in a game, you are not going to get many productive hacks in practice. If you can't hit a breaking ball, and your shoulder makes you wince every time you swing, you are not going to magically learn to hit one in practice. It's a repetition thing, and repetition is basically impossible for Rea right now. And, really, your using a guy that was out on MEDICAL REDSHIRT his first year, recovering from surgery to the same shoulder, which means guess what? HE CANT SWING A BAT. By all means, let's compare to Mike Zunino.

Then we come to Henderson, also INJURED the vast majority of this season, and just NOW getting back to form. He's hitting .271 in 70 ab's, which is within THREE POINTS of what Frasier did in his first season. Was an early-season SEC freshman of the week. Also redshirted last year, after getting a grand total of 12 at-bats! By all means, that's comparable to Mike Zunino(51 games started) or Adam Frasier(95 ab's) their first year on campus. Redshirted players CAN NOT practice with the team! How are they supposed to get drastically better? You've got Frasier getting ab's in regionals and sr's, and Henderson doing nothing. Redshirt players that improve drastically do so in their diet and exercise routines, then go to an elite summer league to get back to speed on the baseball side of it.

Rea and Henderson both hit much better this weekend and will continue to improve going forward.

 

[MSDawg34]

throughout the offseason. Hell last fall and early spring our hitters went up against the top SEC pitching staff every day. It all boils down to if it is your second year on campus I don't care how much game experience you have had, if you are starting in the SEC its time to produce.

 

[MSDawg34]

Not an actual comparison hoping for similar outcomes. How about I shift to Brandon Turner in 07. RS followed up with a .400 season.

Even barring those injuries, the overall point that 2nd year players on campus, that start, should be held to higher standards and not have excuses made for them.

Renfroe is starting to fit that mold, he didn't see much pitching last season. If Rea was indeed hampered during that slump and couldnt swing he shouldnt have been out there. He said he's healthy now and it definitely showed. Henderson was smoking the ball in non-con before a little slump and injury. Porter and Slauter never saw SEC pitching, theyve come up big on numerous occasions, wish Slauter's BA was a little higher tho.

 

[DerHntr]

"We've still no better than Polk II was until the very end."

 

[AssEndDawg]

acting like a RS Freshman should come in and play like a seasoned pro. Damn, what crack are you smoking?

 

[DowntownDawg]

....and this team this year. Instead of just being a man and admitting you were wrong, you jump from argument to argument.

Your latest argument is that we were "experienced" because we have a bunch of redshirts and juco transfers.

I have a damn good idea of what experience means, and I guarantee you Trey Porter would tell you that SEC pitching is a little different than what he saw playing against Northeast Mississippi Community College.

Experience = game experience as in SEC game experience. I don't care how long they are on campus, this was the first year in a brutal league for a lot of em. By the sophomore season they should be producing at a high level if they get experience as a freshman. And guess what, the only uninjured player did that. And Norris was doing it too until he got hurt.

Sometimes a RS freshman or a true freshman will come out and have a great freshman season. But that is the exception, not the rule.

 

[patdog]

I've said several times that I'm surprised at how well we've done this season. The pitching has been unbelievable. I predicted us to go 13-17 preseason and I was wrong about that.

How have I jumped from argument to argument? I've basically posted the same thing all season long:

Our offense sucks.
We won't be a consistently successful team unless the offense gets better.
I understand that we have new bats and lost a lot of starters all year.
That's still no excuse for the offense being this bad.
We're playing very few true FR. Almost everyone who is playing has been in the program for 1-3 years before this season, or isa JUCO transfer.
In college baseball you cannot afford to continually wait until a player's 3rd year to begin to get some halfway decent production out of him because of the scholarship limitations. No one's saying they need to come in and hit .300 in the league in their first year as a starter after being in the program for 1-3 years, but they should be able to hit .250.

 

[engie]

I'm going to compile age and experience numbers for the teams that ranked above us in the SEC this year. I think we'll find that we were the youngest and least experienced in the top half of the league.

 

[DowntownDawg]

...has been healthy, and is not contributing.

I don't see anybody.

Here's our team this year.

Adam Frazier - Been in the program two years, got meaningful experience last year, has been healthy, and is our best player, hitting .360
Trey Porter - First year in the program, but is contributing - second best hitter, hitting .280. I bet he hits over .300 next year easily.
Darryl Norris - Been in the program two years, got meaningful experience last year, has been hurt, and started out on fire, and has slumped after the injury, still hitting .276
Henderson - Been in the program two years, first year on the field, hasn't helped much. Has also dealt with injuries and vision issues.
Renfroe - Second year in the program, first year on the field, has struggled, but has been ok. .259 with decent power. I bet he improves 30 to 40 points in his second year of game experience.
Bradford - Tore it up as a freshman, was hurt when he played this year.
Stark - Mostly got pitching experience last year, first year to see SEC pitching.
Rea- Redshirted last year but was hurt all year. Played this year and has been hurt. I think he has not lived up to expectations, but when your redshirt year is spent in rehab and this year he has been hurting, it's understandable. Jury still out on him.
Frost - He's the one guy I'll give you. He's not ever going to hit. He's undersized and should be at Delta State. That said, he is a utility infield guy.
Fullerton - True Freshman who has struggled.
Slauter - Juco but first year in the program and has been pretty dang good managing the games. Coaches say he is a big reason for our pitching success. He will make a big jump at the plate next year.
Brownlee - Injury plagued. He's a senior. You'd like better numbers, but again he has been very hurt.
Britton - True freshman

There's not a single player that is healthy and has been in the program for over three years And the guys that are PLAYING for the second year are doing well (Frazier, Norris when healthy). The guys that are struggling are hurt players or guys that are playing for the first time. That is to be expected. Again, don't give me the redshirt year BS. And that's a big reason why coaches tend to not want to mess with jucos. You are going to have to adjust to the SEC and for most guys it is going to take a good portion of a season. Slauter and Porter are our only jucos and Slauter is very important on defense and Porter is our second best hitter.

And you say that .250 is what you should be able to hit. The only starting healthy-all-year player that is hitting below that mark in the SEC is Slauter.

Every other year, Cohen has had our offense in the middle of the pack. We'll get back there next year. We just had an absolutely crazy year with youth and injuries. But we have taken our lumps in what was obviously a rebuilding year, and we still earned a .500 plus record for the first time in five years. That's a damn big accomplishment.

 

[VinceVega70]

If there's a pitching coach anywhere who's done a better job with his players in the past 2 years, I don't know him.<div>Thompson has made Stratton a millionaire. Gonna do the same for 2 or 3 others on our staff I think.</div>

 

[Todd4State]

But I am going to add that as far as hitters go, when they are injured and in and out of the lineup- it's hard for them to get in a groove and sustain any success.

I'm not sure that some people understand just how hard it is to swing a bat with a shoulder injury. And the same with Norris and his leg injury- he has had a tendancy to swing with his arms only at times, and I am absolutely 100% sure that is why. Also, when you take a players legs out, you are going to significantly decrease their power because your power ultimately comes from your legs and your core.

But, I'll say this about our guys- they could have sat out and bitched, but they did what they could. Heck, in years past we probably would have had to start Pollorena and Graveman in the outfield.

We are healthy now, and I think Cohen has made some adjustments- hard to make those as a coach when you are just trying to get a guy on the field, and now we are seeing some results.

I hope it carries over to the SEC Tournament.

The sad thing for all of us is who knows what this team does if it is even relatively healthy. Probably host at worst.

 

[KurtRambis4]

you need to just man up and accept the fact that you were wrong about Cohen. The rest is just BS.

 

[The Eternal Goat]

nm

 

[MSDawg34]

But do you ever make a point. Please show me where pat was "wrong about Cohen" in your post. Prove it. Give me a factual quote that pat stated that was wrong about John Cohen.

 

[KurtRambis4]

*