Soccer

[The Peeper]

You don’t need a few million to add these sports.

Women's basketball LOST $4.5 million last year and they put 5 players on the court at a time. I can't understand know how they lost that much, wouldn't have even guessed they spent anywhere near that much but that was in a thread on here a couple weeks ago. How much you think it would cost to field a team of 11 plus subs? Coaches would be about the same I guess, got to maintain a field, travel, hotels, etc.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

hmmmm, men's soccer or beach volleyball...I think i know which would be more popular in the 'Sip

 

[Dawgg]

So what does this mean and what did Polk Biatch about so many years?:
Under Title IX, an educational institution must provide male and female athletes with equal access to financial aid. This means that funds allocated to athletic scholarships must be proportionate to the participation of male and female athletes.Jul 14, 2022

It's "equal access", not "equal numbers". The "participation rate" is the key caveat there. It takes into account the number of high school boys participating in sports vs high school girls. Boys have always had a higher participation rate than girls. This is largely due to football and there being no female equivalent that fields that many players along with there being very few females participating in boys' football.

From what I'm finding, the participation ratio has ranged 70%-75% over the past two decades, so theoretically, a school would need to stay in that range when handing out athletic scholarships. So, for every 10 men's sports scholarships, a school would have about 7 women's sports scholarships. So, when you look at it, while football eats up a lot of men's scholarships in college, it being a huge source of high school athlete boys is a big reason why men are afforded more athletic scholarships than women (as a raw number).

Right now, if you look at the NCAA sports Mississippi State sponsors and the number of scholarships on each, there are 131.3 men's scholarships and 85 women's scholarships (so about a 65% ratio).

Sport	Men	Women
baseball	11.7​
basketball	13​	15​
t&f	12.6​	18​
football	85​
golf	4.5​	6​
soccer		14​
softball		12​
tennis	4.5​	8​
volleyball		12​
Total	131.3​	85​

 

[Cantdoitsal]

It's "equal access", not "equal numbers". The "participation rate" is the key caveat there. It takes into account the number of high school boys participating in sports vs high school girls. Boys have always had a higher participation rate than girls. This is largely due to football and there being no female equivalent that fields that many players along with there being very few females participating in boys' football.

From what I'm finding, the participation ratio has ranged 70%-75% over the past two decades, so theoretically, a school would need to stay in that range when handing out athletic scholarships. So, for every 10 men's sports scholarships, a school would have about 7 women's sports scholarships. So, when you look at it, while football eats up a lot of men's scholarships in college, it being a huge source of high school athlete boys is a big reason why men are afforded more athletic scholarships than women (as a raw number).

Right now, if you look at the NCAA sports Mississippi State sponsors and the number of scholarships on each, there are 131.3 men's scholarships and 85 women's scholarships (so about a 65% ratio).

Sport	Men	Women
baseball	11.7​
basketball	13​	15​
t&f	12.6​	18​
football	85​
golf	4.5​	6​
soccer		14​
softball		12​
tennis	4.5​	8​
volleyball		12​
Total	131.3​	85​

Thanks for this. I still say football numbers shouldn't count since women don't earn football schollies in High School. Women do indeed compete in all other sports prior to college and thus earn college schollies just like the men do in the same sports (counting baseball and softball as the same sport). Remove football from the equation and you've got men getting 46.3 and women 85. I see no fairness in that and the fact that football plays such an important financial role in the athletic dept further solidifies my opinion.

 

[Dawgg]

Thanks for this. I still say football numbers shouldn't count since women don't earn football schollies in High School. Women do indeed compete in all other sports prior to college and thus earn college schollies just like the men do in the same sports (counting baseball and softball as the same sport). Remove football from the equation and you've got men getting 46.3 and women 85. I see no fairness in that and the fact that football plays such an important financial role in the athletic dept further solidifies my opinion.

I understand why you feel that way. I mean, I disagree, but I understand why you feel that way. For me, it's tough to exclude football when it's the single biggest spender on men's scholarships. I feel that's like saying "if you don't count GM, Ford is the biggest American automaker". Well, that's true, but GM still exists.

That being said, it is tough to overlook the fact that the revenues from football (and to a lesser extent, men's basketball) fund the rest of the athletic department. These laws were written in a time well before you had athletic departments raking in 9 figures a year and non-revenue sports losing 7 figures a year. So, again, I get where you're coming from.

Also, I'm in no way an advocate for cutting men's programs and I think (hope) once the power programs finally cut bait on the NCAA, you're going to see some of these scholarship limits raised and maybe see some new (and revived) programs emerge. The biggest thing that sports like men's soccer, beach volleyball, hockey, etc. need is an audience. If they could begin drawing eyeballs and money, then schools will begin picking them up.

 

[Dawgg]

Let's solve the baseball scholly problem first, and foremost. Then, and only then, should we even consider adding sports.

My solution was to add 10 baseball scholarships and 7 softball scholarships. The only real downside to this is the number of Baseball schools without a Softball team (42) and the number of Softball schools without a Baseball team (36). That being said, very few of each are in a power conference.


Baseball but no Softball:

University	Conference
Arkansas State University	Sun Belt Conference
Chicago State University	Western Athletic Conference
Citadel Military College of South Carolina	Southern Conference
Dallas Baptist University	Missouri Valley Conference
Davidson College	Atlantic 10 Conference
Eastern Michigan University	Mid-American Conference
Gonzaga University	West Coast Conference
High Point University	Big South Conference
Kansas State University	Big 12 Conference
New Jersey Institute of Technology	America East Conference
Northeastern University	Colonial Athletic Association
Old Dominion University	Conference USA
Oral Roberts University	The Summit League
Pepperdine University	West Coast Conference
Rice University	Conference USA
Robert Morris University Illinois	Horizon League
Texas Christian University	Big 12 Conference
The University of Texas Rio Grande Valley	Western Athletic Conference
Tulane University of Louisiana	American Athletic Conference
United States Air Force Academy	Mountain West Conference
United States Military Academy	Patriot League
United States Naval Academy	Patriot League
University of Arkansas at Little Rock	Sun Belt Conference
University of California-Irvine	Big West Conference
University of Cincinnati	American Athletic Conference
University of Miami	Atlantic Coast Conference
University of New Orleans	Southland Conference
University of North Carolina at Asheville	Big South Conference
University of Portland	West Coast Conference
University of Richmond	Atlantic 10 Conference
University of San Francisco	West Coast Conference
University of Southern California	Pac-12 Conference
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee	Horizon League
Vanderbilt University	Southeastern Conference
Virginia Commonwealth University	Atlantic 10 Conference
Virginia Military Institute	Southern Conference
Wake Forest University	Atlantic Coast Conference
Washington State University	Pac-12 Conference
West Virginia University	Big 12 Conference
William & Mary	Colonial Athletic Association
Wofford College	Southern Conference
Xavier University	Big East Conference

Softball, but no Baseball:

Name	Conference
Boston University	Patriot League
Cleveland State University	Horizon League
Colgate University	Patriot League
Colorado State University-Fort Collins	Mountain West Conference
DePaul University	Big East Conference
Drake University	Missouri Valley Conference
Drexel University	Colonial Athletic Association
Hampton University	Big South Conference
Howard University	Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference
Idaho State University	Big Sky Conference
Indiana University-Purdue University-Indianapolis	Horizon League
Iowa State University	Big 12 Conference
Loyola University Chicago	Missouri Valley Conference
Morgan State University	Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference
Portland State University	Big Sky Conference
Providence College	Big East Conference
Robert Morris University	Horizon League
Saint Francis University	Northeast Conference
South Carolina State University	Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference
Southern Utah University	Big Sky Conference
St Catherine University	Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Syracuse University	Atlantic Coast Conference
The University of Montana	Big Sky Conference
The University of Tennessee-Chattanooga	Southern Conference
The University of Texas at El Paso	Conference USA
University at Buffalo	Mid-American Conference
University of Detroit Mercy	Horizon League
University of Missouri-Kansas City	The Summit League
University of North Dakota	The Summit League
University of North Texas	Conference USA
University of Northern Iowa	Missouri Valley Conference
University of South Dakota	The Summit League
University of Tulsa	American Athletic Conference
University of Wisconsin-Green Bay	Horizon League
University of Wisconsin-Madison	Big Ten Conference
Weber State University	Big Sky Conference

 

[Cantdoitsal]

I understand why you feel that way. I mean, I disagree, but I understand why you feel that way. For me, it's tough to exclude football when it's the single biggest spender on men's scholarships. I feel that's like saying "if you don't count GM, Ford is the biggest American automaker". Well, that's true, but GM still exists.

That being said, it is tough to overlook the fact that the revenues from football (and to a lesser extent, men's basketball) fund the rest of the athletic department. These laws were written in a time well before you had athletic departments raking in 9 figures a year and non-revenue sports losing 7 figures a year. So, again, I get where you're coming from.

Also, I'm in no way an advocate for cutting men's programs and I think (hope) once the power programs finally cut bait on the NCAA, you're going to see some of these scholarship limits raised and maybe see some new (and revived) programs emerge. The biggest thing that sports like men's soccer, beach volleyball, hockey, etc. need is an audience. If they could begin drawing eyeballs and money, then schools will begin picking them up.

What I'm also seeing is that if you are a non football male H.S. Athlete hoping to earn a Scholly, you're at a disadvantage due to your gender. There are Zero demands for female football therefore women are not in the Slightest Disinfranchised or Damaged in any way were football to be excluded from the equation. Women would still have equal access to Sport's Schollies they compete in during H.S. and would Absolutely then be on equal footing and fairnes with their non football male counterparts.

 

[jjacke]

Monroe County School District adding soccer to their sports programs. It is time for State to add men's soccer!

Excatly

 

[MSUDOG24]

I understand why you feel that way. I mean, I disagree, but I understand why you feel that way. For me, it's tough to exclude football when it's the single biggest spender on men's scholarships. I feel that's like saying "if you don't count GM, Ford is the biggest American automaker". Well, that's true, but GM still exists.

That being said, it is tough to overlook the fact that the revenues from football (and to a lesser extent, men's basketball) fund the rest of the athletic department. These laws were written in a time well before you had athletic departments raking in 9 figures a year and non-revenue sports losing 7 figures a year. So, again, I get where you're coming from.

Also, I'm in no way an advocate for cutting men's programs and I think (hope) once the power programs finally cut bait on the NCAA, you're going to see some of these scholarship limits raised and maybe see some new (and revived) programs emerge. The biggest thing that sports like men's soccer, beach volleyball, hockey, etc. need is an audience. If they could begin drawing eyeballs and money, then schools will begin picking them up.

Great (and simple) explanation Dawgg. I had forgotten the "participation" nuance part of the equation in trying to reconcile the numbers. Particularly the FB off set. Thanks as well for looking up our actual numbers as I've been too lazy to do it my self.