Some proper perspective Franklin haters....
- Thread starter saturdaysarebetter
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I watch and follow football to be entertained. PSU has been very entertaining over Franklin's tenure. Do I want to watch them beat OSU and/or Michigan, make a playoff and win the whole thing? Of course. But if I'm largely entertained over the course of a season - that's a win. I'm good.
I don't get a special prize if PSU wins. I'm not suddenly a "winner" if PSU wins. I'm not that sad or desperate that it's "natty or nothing." Be competitive. Entertain me.
Franklin's helped to stabilize and rebuild PSU into a very good program. It's been a challenge, given the recent history, the declining quality of the traditional recruiting grounds and other issues, like NIL. He's a very good coach. Is he the best? Nah. Oh well.
Would I like a guy who can overcome all the inherent obstacles and win the big games more often? Sure. Where is he? Is he going to stay? But, in the meantime, what's the point in just railing on everything the guy does, and making him out to be completely unworthy when PSU is nationally relevant and (mostly) fun to watch?
I don't get a special prize if PSU wins. I'm not suddenly a "winner" if PSU wins. I'm not that sad or desperate that it's "natty or nothing." Be competitive. Entertain me.
Franklin's helped to stabilize and rebuild PSU into a very good program. It's been a challenge, given the recent history, the declining quality of the traditional recruiting grounds and other issues, like NIL. He's a very good coach. Is he the best? Nah. Oh well.
Would I like a guy who can overcome all the inherent obstacles and win the big games more often? Sure. Where is he? Is he going to stay? But, in the meantime, what's the point in just railing on everything the guy does, and making him out to be completely unworthy when PSU is nationally relevant and (mostly) fun to watch?
My issue is the double standards he and a few others have. Ask them the last coach who got fired after back to back 10 win seasons with back to back NYD 6 games. Ask them for this magical coach who is crushing the top 5? Is that coach then realistic for PSU? Name all of these coaches or schools firing someone like Franklin since clearly there is some huge long list? They cannot do it and that is where I have a problem.
Funny thing is I never see these posts proclaiming him the best coach in the conference or irreplaceable by anyone. Pate didn't do that, nor have I seen anyone else do that but as Pate said you don't win 10 a year or back to back 9 win seasons at Vandy as a bad coach. You don't have 6 top 12 finishes in 8 years as a bad coach. If you can only use 10-20% of the record to make your point, maybe just maybe you're not capable of telling the entire story. If you want to say he isn't great or elite...that is true as of today. Just don't get butt hurt when people say he is a good coach and then run away saying you're attacked...well I cannot help you there.
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Still waiting for Harrisburg Dave to list his "two dozen guys" who would step right in and take PSU to whatever promised land is out there.
Still waiting for Harrisburg Dave to list his "two dozen guys" who would step right in and take PSU to whatever promised land is out there.
Now that there are no coaching staff limits, we should hire all two dozen. We will be invincible!
I don’t buy it either.
I can understand the frustration out there regarding Franklin. And I myself am very concerned that Penn State will fall further behind in this age of NIL. There’s a lot of worry and anger. Also since Franklin is front and center he has become a punching bag for those angry about incompetent ADs and university administrators. But, no, I can’t believe those promoting “switch Day and Franklin and PSU would beat Ohio State” are in any way sincere. They’re just blowing off steam.
He’s dying on the Jimbo Fisher hill.Still waiting for Harrisburg Dave to list his "two dozen guys" who would step right in and take PSU to whatever promised land is out there.
And incompetent coaching. Why does Franklin get a pass? It’s everyone’s fault but his.
Appreciate the even tempered response! More than I can say for some.
Stop the nonsense already. Of course he has made mistakes, but so does every single coach around. Every single coach will make mistakes, but this idea he is getting a "free pass" because they didn't fire him after the last 2 years is just pure hyperbole. If you want to keep pretending he is a bad coach or you're a victim here, have at it, but it's not coming off that well.
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All fans get frustrated when they aren't at the top and even more so if you were once there, but it has literally been 3 decades for PSU. I'm all for holding bad coaches accountable, but that isn't what is being discussed here sadly.
And, you know, we’ve got two total national championships in the books. What if Bobby Collins had gone for two back in 1982 or if Jimmy Johnson hadn’t thought he had the Fiesta Bowl won before the game even started?
FWIW On3 Industry Recruiting Rankings since PSU's last win against OSU:
2017: OSU 2, PSU 17, M4
2018: OSU 2, PSU 5, M 22
2019: OSU 15, PSU 10, M 7
2020: OSU 5, PSU 14, M 10
2021: OSU 2, PSU 18, M 15
2022: OSU 4, PSU 7, M9
2023: OSU 4, PSU 14, M 18
Average: OSU 4.8, PSU 12.1, M 12.1
After the B1G championship turnaround season, Franklin is 3-4 against Michigan the last 7 meetings, not 0-7 as some seem to imply.
That said, while the impetus behind Michigan's recent rise has been debated, it is certainly "recent". Recruiting rankings with Michigan average to be identical within that timeframe at approximately #12. And the last 2 have been during Michigan playoff years. So 3-4 stinks, but it isn't a statistical proof of coaching failure.
OSU recruiting in that timeframe has been at a different level, averaging a 4.8 team ranking. The Jimmys and the Joes explains the OSU record, despite admittedly frustrating and disappointing missed opportunities.
Yet for context, since Penn State last beat Ohio State, Ohio State has only lost 9 (nine) TOTAL games, of which 3 were the last few years against Michigan, and 3 were in major bowl games.
A couple other points:
- While recruiting does not win championships as demonstrated by Texas A&M, it certainly can hinder championship contention when you operate at a talent deficit. Similarly, NIL doesn't win recruiting but it can prohibit a team from winning a recruitment. The current tie between NIL and recruiting rankings is undeniable, regardless of how much charisma or lack thereof a coaching staff may exhibit.
- Franklin has benefitted Penn State football immensely by what he has done off the field. Had he not been sounding the alarm about facilities, NIL, assistant coaches, analysts, etc., alarms that are often scorned and held as a source of amusement by fans, then PSU would be falling even further behind.
- The "who would be the replacement" topic is not peripheral; it is INTERGRAL to this discussion / debate (whatever it is perceived to be). Franklin does not coach in a vacuum. With the inherit limitations, lack of fan investment, etc. as another poster stated above, there is no reason to logically think that a replacement coach would lead to Georgia outcomes instead of Nebraska outcomes. And any such new hire would inherently face the same challenges; would they be willing to fight for the football program as Franklin has? Will recruits flock to a "big name" if they are getting a completely different level of NIL elsewhere? Perhaps, but it seems to be based on hope as opposed to logic or likelihood.
2017: OSU 2, PSU 17, M4
2018: OSU 2, PSU 5, M 22
2019: OSU 15, PSU 10, M 7
2020: OSU 5, PSU 14, M 10
2021: OSU 2, PSU 18, M 15
2022: OSU 4, PSU 7, M9
2023: OSU 4, PSU 14, M 18
Average: OSU 4.8, PSU 12.1, M 12.1
After the B1G championship turnaround season, Franklin is 3-4 against Michigan the last 7 meetings, not 0-7 as some seem to imply.
That said, while the impetus behind Michigan's recent rise has been debated, it is certainly "recent". Recruiting rankings with Michigan average to be identical within that timeframe at approximately #12. And the last 2 have been during Michigan playoff years. So 3-4 stinks, but it isn't a statistical proof of coaching failure.
OSU recruiting in that timeframe has been at a different level, averaging a 4.8 team ranking. The Jimmys and the Joes explains the OSU record, despite admittedly frustrating and disappointing missed opportunities.
Yet for context, since Penn State last beat Ohio State, Ohio State has only lost 9 (nine) TOTAL games, of which 3 were the last few years against Michigan, and 3 were in major bowl games.
A couple other points:
- While recruiting does not win championships as demonstrated by Texas A&M, it certainly can hinder championship contention when you operate at a talent deficit. Similarly, NIL doesn't win recruiting but it can prohibit a team from winning a recruitment. The current tie between NIL and recruiting rankings is undeniable, regardless of how much charisma or lack thereof a coaching staff may exhibit.
- Franklin has benefitted Penn State football immensely by what he has done off the field. Had he not been sounding the alarm about facilities, NIL, assistant coaches, analysts, etc., alarms that are often scorned and held as a source of amusement by fans, then PSU would be falling even further behind.
- The "who would be the replacement" topic is not peripheral; it is INTERGRAL to this discussion / debate (whatever it is perceived to be). Franklin does not coach in a vacuum. With the inherit limitations, lack of fan investment, etc. as another poster stated above, there is no reason to logically think that a replacement coach would lead to Georgia outcomes instead of Nebraska outcomes. And any such new hire would inherently face the same challenges; would they be willing to fight for the football program as Franklin has? Will recruits flock to a "big name" if they are getting a completely different level of NIL elsewhere? Perhaps, but it seems to be based on hope as opposed to logic or likelihood.
Remember to say you’re 100% cool with not sniffing playoff success when you support Coach. ThxGo f*ck yourself.
How’s that for even-tempered?
If you say, “no offense” before you say it, you can say whatever you want.Go f*ck yourself.
How’s that for even-tempered?
Great post and I'll add this: Whomever the next coach is at PSU will be set up 10x better structurally than he was when he arrived on campus, and a lot of that can be attributed to his fighting for it at every corner.
But we want to get rid of Franklin and be set up 100x better. We deserve it.
You want Urban and his wandering hands to be 100x better?
If Franklin and his staff (DC/OC) get to the playoff this year I’ll shut up about him until his contract ends. With all this having to fight tooth and nail for things I can only assume other programs get without hassle, like many have said, this job may not be worth it to many. That said, I think our teams have had enough talent to play with OSU and Michigan in most years - recruiting isn’t the issue, and you can see that in the string of quality verbals this week (whether they stick….eh, we’ll see). I think the new OC will help a ton. We’ll see.
PSU will be a complete financial train wreck by the time Franklin’s contract ends.
It won’t matter who the next coach is.
Have you been following along? Revenue sharing is coming in 2025 and 22 million plus a season is allowed to pay our roster and you're worried about Franklin's contract? Go to sleep man.
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$45 bucks for an online "book" this Summer semester. Of course her professor basically made it mandatory as he wrote it and it was version 1.5 or something similar.
Bad experience on the Going to the Sun highway today, 99. We did the Lake Mary boat trip then got back on the GTTS road to travel west to Whitefish. We're about six miles from the west exit when traffic came to a complete stop. After waiting a while (to the point where everyone shut off their cars and began to mill about smartly) a ranger came along to tell us, "There is a car fire a couple miles ahead. We are closing the road for the night. You have to go back to the east exit."
So we and it seemed like hundreds of our closest friends got to drive round trip on GTTS. We left this condo around 1030 am local - and got back here around 10:30 pm. All for a good but not great 1.25 hour boat ride.
All good!
$150 for online textbook for 6 week summer course here.
My wife is taking a 1 week ESL course at Berks right now and the class was $1600 and the book was $80.
Yup. $1,700 for online Econ class + $150 for book.
I had to take an ethics class. The book was mandatory (I don't remember the price or much of the content). It was written by the professor.
I found this ironic.
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Screw that. We have all the answers right here. The BWICAC is omniscient.Now that there are no coaching staff limits, we should hire all two dozen. We will be invincible!
I don't get the liberal use of the word "hate", or "hater". Franklin has not yet proven himself to be an elite coach. Am I now a hater?
Who is calling him elite? Pate said he is a good coach, not great or elite, so is that not accurate? There is some notion that if you aren't calling for Franklin's head you are putting him in the HOF.
Paterno went through this in the 70s and very early 80s. Seven losses to Tennessee and Alabama and Nebraska and then boom
He went through it in the 90’s too. Plenty of losses to Michigan, Ohio State, and Iowa.