Sorry, Harvard. Everyone Wants to Go to College in the South Now

From Atherton to Auburn

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Living and working in Auburn, I can tell you this trend is really. It should worry TPTB at Penn State....especially those running the branch campuses. Highly recommend reading the whole article, I just posted a couple of excerpts.

www.wsj.com /us-news/education/sorry-harvard-everyone-wants-to-go-to-college-in-the-south-now-235d7934

A growing number of high-school seniors in the North are making an unexpected choice for college: They are heading to Clemson, Georgia Tech, South Carolina, Alabama and other universities in the South. Students say they are searching for the fun and school spirit emanating from the South on their social-media feeds. Their parents cite lower tuition and less debt, and warmer weather. College counselors also say many teens are eager to trade the political polarization ripping apart campuses in New England and New York for the sense of community epitomized by the South’s football Saturdays. Promising job prospects after graduation can sweeten the pot.

The number of Northerners going to Southern public schools went up 84% over the past two decades, and jumped 30% from 2018 to 2022, a Wall Street Journal analysis of the latest available Education Department data found.

Mitch Savalli drove 15 hours with his parents in a rented white Lincoln Navigator from his home in North Bellmore, N.Y., on Long Island, to Atlanta for his freshman year at Georgia Tech. A few weeks later he was walking from the grocery store to his dorm with a bouquet of flowers for the woman he was taking to a fraternity event when the reality of his new surroundings dawned on him.

“Five people stopped me and told me how kind it was and what a sweet gesture I was making,” he said. “No way would that have happened in New York.”

At the University of South Carolina in Columbia, Alicia Caracciolo, a junior, said it takes her about two weeks to acclimate to the pace of the South every time she returns from her home in New York. At the grocery store she reminds herself to pause and slow down. “If you go and you don’t end up learning something about the cashier, you did it wrong,” she said.
 
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Tom McAndrew

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There has been a trend of students from non-Southern regions finding Southern schools more popular for some time, as is noted in the article. While it's not noted in the excerpts you posted, part of the reason for that has been an aggressive approach, from the financial side, by a number of Southern universities to make themselves more appealing.

That said, the WSJ headline, which you repeated in your Subject line, is not all that accurate. Harvard's popularity with high school seniors remains exceedingly high. For the Class of 2028 (the students that entered college this fall), for Harvard:

Applicants: 54,008
Admitted: 1,970
Enrolled: 1,647

Geographical breakdown of Harvard's class that just started:

New England: 17%
Middle Atlantic: 20%
South: 16%
Midwest: 9%
Central: 2%
Mountain: 2%
Pacific: 15%
Territories: <1%
International: 18%
 
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LB99

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Living and working in Auburn, I can tell you this trend is really. It should worry TPTB at Penn State....especially those running the branch campuses. Highly recommend reading the whole article, I just posted a couple of excerpts.

www.wsj.com /us-news/education/sorry-harvard-everyone-wants-to-go-to-college-in-the-south-now-235d7934

A growing number of high-school seniors in the North are making an unexpected choice for college: They are heading to Clemson, Georgia Tech, South Carolina, Alabama and other universities in the South. Students say they are searching for the fun and school spirit emanating from the South on their social-media feeds. Their parents cite lower tuition and less debt, and warmer weather. College counselors also say many teens are eager to trade the political polarization ripping apart campuses in New England and New York for the sense of community epitomized by the South’s football Saturdays. Promising job prospects after graduation can sweeten the pot.

The number of Northerners going to Southern public schools went up 84% over the past two decades, and jumped 30% from 2018 to 2022, a Wall Street Journal analysis of the latest available Education Department data found.

Mitch Savalli drove 15 hours with his parents in a rented white Lincoln Navigator from his home in North Bellmore, N.Y., on Long Island, to Atlanta for his freshman year at Georgia Tech. A few weeks later he was walking from the grocery store to his dorm with a bouquet of flowers for the woman he was taking to a fraternity event when the reality of his new surroundings dawned on him.

“Five people stopped me and told me how kind it was and what a sweet gesture I was making,” he said. “No way would that have happened in New York.”

At the University of South Carolina in Columbia, Alicia Caracciolo, a junior, said it takes her about two weeks to acclimate to the pace of the South every time she returns from her home in New York. At the grocery store she reminds herself to pause and slow down. “If you go and you don’t end up learning something about the cashier, you did it wrong,” she said.
I appreciate the weather and change of pace in the south when I am there. We have vacationed in the south for years and have family in Virginia. As for the article, it’s a bit misleading. Taking a quick look at Clemson and South Carolina since many kids from our area go there, both schools out of state tuition rate + room/board is >$50,000. So, both are more expensive than in state PSU tuition for PA residents according to their own websites. Also, both rank lower than PSU in the U.S. News and World Reports rankings. SC is much, much lower. I question the article’s agenda. Bottom line to me is the kids are seeking warm weather and a fun time.
 

Alphalion75

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I appreciate the weather and change of pace in the south when I am there. We have vacationed in the south for years and have family in Virginia. As for the article, it’s a bit misleading. Taking a quick look at Clemson and South Carolina since many kids from our area go there, both schools out of state tuition rate + room/board is >$50,000. So, both are more expensive than in state PSU tuition for PA residents according to their own websites. Also, both rank lower than PSU in the U.S. News and World Reports rankings. SC is much, much lower. I question the article’s agenda. Bottom line to me is the kids are seeking warm weather and a fun time.
Yes...seeking warm weather, fun time and escaping the political nonsense gripping the Ivy League and other schools in the north.
 

Tom McAndrew

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I appreciate the weather and change of pace in the south when I am there. We have vacationed in the south for years and have family in Virginia. As for the article, it’s a bit misleading. Taking a quick look at Clemson and South Carolina since many kids from our area go there, both schools out of state tuition rate + room/board is >$50,000. So, both are more expensive than in state PSU tuition for PA residents according to their own websites. Also, both rank lower than PSU in the U.S. News and World Reports rankings. SC is much, much lower. I question the article’s agenda. Bottom line to me is the kids are seeking warm weather and a fun time.

South Carolina is a good example of what I referenced in my reply about Southern schools making themselves more appealing, financially. My kids had several friends that attended USCe. The friends were in the top 10% of their high school classes. USCe gave them in-state tuition based on their academic performance in high school. I believe they had to maintain a 3.0 at USCe to keep that benefit, but I'm not certain about that.
 
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psuro

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And there it is. The agenda.
The Office Yes GIF
 

LB99

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South Carolina is a good example of what I referenced in my reply about Southern schools making themselves more appealing, financially. My kids had several friends that attended USCe. The friends were in the top 10% of their high school classes. USCe gave them in-state tuition based on their academic performance in high school. I believe they had to maintain a 3.0 at USCe to keep that benefit, but I'm not certain about that.
That would make it more affordable then. Good to know.
 

Bison13

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I’ve been seeing this for 10+ years in Maryland. All of the reasons mentioned above are part of it. Quite a few have gone to Auburn or Georgia Tech for engineering and others attending Clemson, South Carolina, Alabama, Alabama, Georgia, Coastal, Wake and UNC.

Almost all of them were top 10% of their class, many with 1500+ SAT scores. Yes, some of the rankings of those schools are not good but these were kids that turned down Hopkins and Ivy’s to go there for the experiences that they wanted.
 

BobPSU92

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I’ve been seeing this for 10+ years in Maryland. All of the reasons mentioned above are part of it. Quite a few have gone to Auburn or Georgia Tech for engineering and others attending Clemson, South Carolina, Alabama, Alabama, Georgia, Coastal, Wake and UNC.

Almost all of them were top 10% of their class, many with 1500+ SAT scores. Yes, some of the rankings of those schools are not good but these were kids that turned down Hopkins and Ivy’s to go there for the experiences that they wanted.

PSU should just throw in the towel on academics and sell the experience. Wait. That’s what they are doing.

“Penn State: The southern experience without the south.”

😞
 
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GrimReaper

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Living and working in Auburn, I can tell you this trend is really. It should worry TPTB at Penn State....especially those running the branch campuses. Highly recommend reading the whole article, I just posted a couple of excerpts.

www.wsj.com /us-news/education/sorry-harvard-everyone-wants-to-go-to-college-in-the-south-now-235d7934

A growing number of high-school seniors in the North are making an unexpected choice for college: They are heading to Clemson, Georgia Tech, South Carolina, Alabama and other universities in the South. Students say they are searching for the fun and school spirit emanating from the South on their social-media feeds. Their parents cite lower tuition and less debt, and warmer weather. College counselors also say many teens are eager to trade the political polarization ripping apart campuses in New England and New York for the sense of community epitomized by the South’s football Saturdays. Promising job prospects after graduation can sweeten the pot.

The number of Northerners going to Southern public schools went up 84% over the past two decades, and jumped 30% from 2018 to 2022, a Wall Street Journal analysis of the latest available Education Department data found.

Mitch Savalli drove 15 hours with his parents in a rented white Lincoln Navigator from his home in North Bellmore, N.Y., on Long Island, to Atlanta for his freshman year at Georgia Tech. A few weeks later he was walking from the grocery store to his dorm with a bouquet of flowers for the woman he was taking to a fraternity event when the reality of his new surroundings dawned on him.

“Five people stopped me and told me how kind it was and what a sweet gesture I was making,” he said. “No way would that have happened in New York.”

At the University of South Carolina in Columbia, Alicia Caracciolo, a junior, said it takes her about two weeks to acclimate to the pace of the South every time she returns from her home in New York. At the grocery store she reminds herself to pause and slow down. “If you go and you don’t end up learning something about the cashier, you did it wrong,” she said.
Indeed. But the headline wouldn't be as catchy if, say, "Penn State"or a myriad of other schools were substituted for Harvard. The Ivies and similar schools aren't experiencing a brain drain to the south Carolinas and Alabamas.
South Carolina is a good example of what I referenced in my reply about Southern schools making themselves more appealing, financially. My kids had several friends that attended USCe. The friends were in the top 10% of their high school classes. USCe gave them in-state tuition based on their academic performance in high school. I believe they had to maintain a 3.0 at USCe to keep that benefit, but I'm not certain about that.
The most difficult challenge to maintain a 3.0 at USCe is waking up in the morning.
 

LB99

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I’ve been seeing this for 10+ years in Maryland. All of the reasons mentioned above are part of it. Quite a few have gone to Auburn or Georgia Tech for engineering and others attending Clemson, South Carolina, Alabama, Alabama, Georgia, Coastal, Wake and UNC.

Almost all of them were top 10% of their class, many with 1500+ SAT scores. Yes, some of the rankings of those schools are not good but these were kids that turned down Hopkins and Ivy’s to go there for the experiences that they wanted.
I’m not arguing the trend. That’s been happening for quite some time, as you said. I think the article has more angles to it than that. FYI, my freshman year at PSU, I had several kids from the Boston area on my dorm floor because it was cheaper to pay out of state tuition and come to PSU than it was to pay in state tuition in Massachusetts and attend the Boston area schools. I get it. People should do what makes the most sense for them.
 
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GrimReaper

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I’m not arguing the trend. That’s been happening for quite some time, as you said. I think the article has more angles to it than that. FYI, my freshman year at PSU, I had several kids from the Boston area on my dorm floor because it was cheaper to pay out of state tuition and come to PSU than it was to pay in state tuition in Massachusetts and attend the Boston area schools. I get it. People should do what makes the most sense for them.
Don't know when you were in college and don't have apples-to-apples tuition numbers, but zooMass in-tate tuition was $1,800 per year in 2000. PSU's in-state was $2,800 in 1986.
 
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PSUFTG

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South Carolina is a good example of what I referenced in my reply about Southern schools making themselves more appealing, financially. My kids had several friends that attended USCe. The friends were in the top 10% of their high school classes. USCe gave them in-state tuition based on their academic performance in high school. I believe they had to maintain a 3.0 at USCe to keep that benefit, but I'm not certain about that.
Yep.
Sticker Price is not = to actual costs.

FWIW: PSU is not only the lowest wrt university provided financial aid among all Big 10 schools (and by a LOT), but is also, as one would expect, well below the levels of aid/discounts given out by those "southern schools".

It is certainly not unusual for quality OOS schools to offer levels of aid/discount (especially for students who are of modest means and/or high quality) to pay less to go OOS, than to stay home in PA.
 
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BobPSU92

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And think of all of those sports that Southern schools don't have that you don't get to see. Oh, wait.....

It’s high time PSU adds some athletic programs. We’ve been sitting at 31, or whatever, for a long time.

“This is the day of the expanding man…”
 
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LB99

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Don't know when you were in college and don't have apples-to-apples tuition numbers, but zooMass in-tate tuition was $1,800 per year in 2000. PSU's in-state was $2,800 in 1986.
I never said UMass in my post but thanks.
 

Midnighter

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Didn’t read the article, but did they mention acceptance rates for Southern schools compared to the Northeast, Mid Atlantic, or West Coast? Aside from Vanderbilt (7%), the next lowest acceptance rate for an SEC school is Florida at 30% - and it gets much, much higher from there. Georgia is attractive because it’s more affordable and they accept 40%; Bama and LSU are over 70%, Kentucky is a whopping 94%. My guess is the ACC is more competitive.

Worth noting that seven of the most applied to schools in the country are UC schools (UCLA #1 overall); Penn State, NYU, and Northeastern (which has a jaw droppingly low single digit acceptance rate) are in there with Michigan, Boston University, USC, and Cornell.
 
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Nitt1300

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Didn’t read the article, but did they mention acceptance rates for Southern schools compared to the Northeast, Mid Atlantic, or West Coast? Aside from Vanderbilt (7%), the next lowest acceptance rate for an SEC school is Florida at 30% - and it gets much, much higher from there. Georgia is attractive because it’s more affordable and they accept 40%; Bama and LSU are over 70%, Kentucky is a whopping 94%. My guess is the ACC is more competitive.

Worth noting that seven of the most applied to schools in the country are UC schools (UCLA #1 overall); Penn State, NYU, and Northeastern (which has a jaw droppingly low single digit acceptance rate).
don't throw facts in the way of the agenda
 
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Tom McAndrew

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Worth noting that seven of the most applied to schools in the country are UC schools (UCLA #1 overall); Penn State, NYU, and Northeastern (which has a jaw droppingly low single digit acceptance rate).

It's hard to find stats that I'm 100% confident in. If you Google the subject, different sites give different top 10s.

Using the U.S. News site, the Stats for 2024:

1UCLA108,877
2UC-San Diego100,073
3UC-Irvine97,942
4UC-Santa Barbara90,963
5UC-Berkeley88,076
6NYU80,210
7UC-Davis76,225
8PSU (University Park)73,861
9Cal State-Long Beach67,402
10Michigan (Ann Arbor)65,021
 
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PSUFTG

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Didn’t read the article, but did they mention acceptance rates for Southern schools compared to the Northeast, Mid Atlantic, or West Coast? Aside from Vanderbilt (7%), the next lowest acceptance rate for an SEC school is Florida at 30% - and it gets much, much higher from there. Georgia is attractive because it’s more affordable and they accept 40%; Bama and LSU are over 70%, Kentucky is a whopping 94%. My guess is the ACC is more competitive.

Worth noting that seven of the most applied to schools in the country are UC schools (UCLA #1 overall); Penn State, NYU, and Northeastern (which has a jaw droppingly low single digit acceptance rate) are in there with Michigan, Boston University, USC, and Cornell.
Aside from Northwestern and Michigan (and, now, the 2 California schools) what do you think is the highest rate of selectivity for the other Big Ten schools?

[Spoiler alert: A lot less selective than Florida - or even Georgia, for that matter]
 

GrimReaper

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I never said UMass in my post but thanks.
You did not. But there are no public colleges or universities in Massachusetts with tuition that is higher than zooMass's, other than Mass Maritime, for which I doubt that many substitute PSU.
 
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Midnighter

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Aside from Northwestern and Michigan (and, now, the 2 California schools) what do you think is the highest rate of selectivity for the other Big Ten schools?

[Spoiler alert: A lot less selective than Florida - or even Georgia, for that matter]

Oh I know. But this article said kids are spurning Harvard for Sothern schools. Bullsh*t they are.

Any idea what the average annual yield is for B1G vs SEC?

In my kids’ school, no one talks about southern schools unless it’s Duke, Vanderbilt, or UNC (UVA too since it’s our public) unless for sports; they are way more excited about Davidson than big Southern publics.
 
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GrimReaper

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Didn’t read the article, but did they mention acceptance rates for Southern schools compared to the Northeast, Mid Atlantic, or West Coast? Aside from Vanderbilt (7%), the next lowest acceptance rate for an SEC school is Florida at 30% - and it gets much, much higher from there. Georgia is attractive because it’s more affordable and they accept 40%; Bama and LSU are over 70%, Kentucky is a whopping 94%. My guess is the ACC is more competitive.

Worth noting that seven of the most applied to schools in the country are UC schools (UCLA #1 overall); Penn State, NYU, and Northeastern (which has a jaw droppingly low single digit acceptance rate) are in there with Michigan, Boston University, USC, and Cornell.
The popularity of Northeastern is astounding.
 

GrimReaper

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Aside from Northwestern and Michigan (and, now, the 2 California schools) what do you think is the highest rate of selectivity for the other Big Ten schools?

[Spoiler alert: A lot less selective than Florida - or even Georgia, for that matter]
Bucky, closely followed by Illinois and Maryland.
 

GrimReaper

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Oh I know. But this article said kids are spurning Harvard for Sothern schools. Bullsh*t they are.

Any idea what the average annual yield is for B1G vs SEC?

In my kids’ school, no one talks about southern schools unless it’s Duke, Vanderbilt, or UNC (UVA too since it’s our public) unless for sports; they are way more excited about Davidson than big Southern publics.
Yields are close. Big Ten is 28%, SEC is 31%. Both of those numbers are before the most recent expansion of each.
 
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NittPicker

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PSU won't care as long as they keep admitting more out-of-state kids who are willing to pay almost $40,000/academic year.

As an example of the OP, Florida State non-resident tuition is slightly cheaper than Penn State resident tuition. If I was a high school senior in PA, FSU would be a realistic option.
 
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ApexLion

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There has been a trend of students from non-Southern regions finding Southern schools more popular for some time, as is noted in the article. While it's not noted in the excerpts you posted, part of the reason for that has been an aggressive approach, from the financial side, by a number of Southern universities to make themselves more appealing.

That said, the WSJ headline, which you repeated in your Subject line, is not all that accurate. Harvard's popularity with high school seniors remains exceedingly high. For the Class of 2028 (the students that entered college this fall), for Harvard:

Applicants: 54,008
Admitted: 1,970
Enrolled: 1,647

Geographical breakdown of Harvard's class that just started:

New England: 17%
Middle Atlantic: 20%
South: 16%
Midwest: 9%
Central: 2%
Mountain: 2%
Pacific: 15%
Territories: <1%
International: 18%
Shhh… y’all stay up there.
 

ApexLion

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Been thru two extensive college searches with our two oldest daughters. Now starting another search with daughter 3. It is well-known that Alabama, FSU and South Carolina are actively courting northern and eligible southern kids and their parents with tuition reductions. Georgia, UNC, and UF are much more selective. We can get a better deal at all of these schools as an out of state student than what PSU offers to oos students. It’s not even close.
 
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