Take that 2 strike fist to chest thing and ...

[Bulldog Bruce]

Stick it where the sun don't shine. I would tell Gatreau I am not going to look at you while I am batting. I am the one at the plate and you just sit there and shut up while I am hitting.

I am disturbed by the hitters swinging at bad pitches and letting good ones right down the middle go. 2 different ABs Jordan swung at balls and let every actual strike go. Hines let a 3-1 fastball in a crucial AB just go right to the catcher in the heart of the plate.

I am not seeing disciplined hitters. I see indecisive hitters. Gatreau get out of their <17>n' heads while they are at the plate.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

#bruceforcoach2024

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Stick it where the sun don't shine. I would tell Gatreau I am not going to look at you while I am batting. I am the one at the plate and you just sit there and shut up while I am hitting.

I am disturbed by the hitters swinging at bad pitches and letting good ones right down the middle go. 2 different ABs Jordan swung at balls and let every actual strike go. Hines let a 3-1 fastball in a crucial AB just go right to the catcher in the heart of the plate.

I am not seeing disciplined hitters. I see indecisive hitters. Gatreau get out of their <17>n' heads while they are at the plate.

^^^^ This fellow knows a thing or two about hitting^^^^

 

[patdog]

Hitters and pitchers are being micromanaged by coaches all over college baseball. It’s ridiculous. And ultimately leads to worse players instead of better ones.

 

[TNDawg1]

Can’t remember if it was Bart or Charlie but one them immediately remarked about Hines spitting on that 3-1 strike. two outs and bases empty you have to drive that pitch. No telling what Chance might have done next.

 

[HuntDawg]

Odd no one cared when magnum and Allen and all were doing it.

maybe the message is getting stale. And I’m not saying I like that either…. But I just don’t see talented hitters at the plate. Larry should be a 7-9 guy. Chance a 5-6 hitter. Hines is boom or bust.. and Jordan is pitchable. The rest of the guys look extremely average.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

Hitters and pitchers are being micromanaged by coaches all over college baseball. It’s ridiculous. And ultimately leads to worse players instead of better ones.

YES. Instead of training these kids to think for themselves, they treat them like puppies. They are supposed to look at the master for everything they do on the field. Coaches used to teach fundamentals on what to do and then provide coordination during the game. Old coaching let the wild animals run wild and do what they do best. Now they are like lion tamers and give every instruction for those lions to even move.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

Odd no one cared when magnum and Allen and all were doing it.

maybe the message is getting stale. And I’m not saying I like that either…. But I just don’t see talented hitters at the plate. Larry should be a 7-9 guy. Chance a 5-6 hitter. Hines is boom or bust.. and Jordan is pitchable. The rest of the guys look extremely average.

I call BS on that. Go find old posts of mine complaining about it back then.

 

[stateu1]

Damn. This Bruce guy might understand baseball after all.

 

[HuntDawg]

I call BS on that. Go find old posts of mine complaining about it back then.

Again I don’t like it either. But the difference is the lack of talent now.

 

[STATEgrad04]

Odd no one cared when magnum and Allen and all were doing it.

maybe the message is getting stale. And I’m not saying I like that either…. But I just don’t see talented hitters at the plate. Larry should be a 7-9 guy. Chance a 5-6 hitter. Hines is boom or bust.. and Jordan is pitchable. The rest of the guys look extremely average.

Its kind of like the Dog Pound Rock in football. When it was organic it was the best thing going, but when it became forced/scripted it lost everything. The chest bump in baseball was good when it was organic and created by those original players, but now it is simply "going through the motions" for the current players.

 

[Ranchdawg]

Hunter Hines was a good hitter when he first got here. It seems like we are coaching them out of being good hitters. Bruce makes a great point. Let the player play ball and quit getting in their heads.

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

They should grab their crotch to tell themselves it's time to nut up.

 

[STATEgrad04]

Hey Bruce, I have a questions for at the plate strategy. I completely agree with what you said in the OP, but do wonder how much of the plate appearance is "guessing" what pitch is coming vs. actually seeing and responding the pitched ball? Meaning, if they are thinking a fastball is coming but get a slider out of the zone, they are swinging for fastball and missing. Then on the fastball are expecting slider low and away, only to watch it come right down the pipe...I havent played since HS and so I have no idea what the approach is for college and beyond. I would appreciate your take on this.

 

[HuntDawg]

Hunter Hines was a good hitter when he first got here. It seems like we are coaching them out of being good hitters. Bruce makes a great point. Let the player play ball and quit getting in their heads.

Hines is what he’s been and will have a good year. He has improved since being here. He barreled some balls yesterday. He’ll be a high draft pick.

he’s got a lot of swing and Miss in him. He’s going to struggle against good left handed pitching. Hell hit around 300 with 20 homers. His bat isn’t a problem. The problem is other sec teams have 2-3-4 other guys around him that provide protection. We don’t.

the other problem is we DHed him for 2 seasons while we let lemonis favorite and a catcher that couldn’t catch in Hancock play first.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

Hey Bruce, I have a questions for at the plate strategy. I completely agree with what you said in the OP, but do wonder how much of the plate appearance is "guessing" what pitch is coming vs. actually seeing and responding the pitched ball? Meaning, if they are thinking a fastball is coming but get a slider out of the zone, they are swinging for fastball and missing. Then on the fastball are expecting slider low and away, only to watch it come right down the pipe...I havent played since HS and so I have no idea what the approach is for college and beyond. I would appreciate your take on this.

The mental side of hitting is educated guesses much of the time. It turns into recognition and reaction as the AB goes on. I think you need to go up with a general idea of how they are going to pitch to you. Hines with those lefties should have gone up looking for the curveball. I still remember an AB of mine against Kentucky's Jeff Keener. He threw this wiffleball curveball from a submarine arm angle. No one ever saw a pitch like he threw and he had a .71 era that season. I out loud said to myself "the ball has to be behind me to swing" as I walked to the plate. I hit a HR in the SEC tournament in that AB in the 8th inning to go up 2 to 1. I would not have had a chance without mentally preparing for the situation.

So if you are going to predominantly see breaking balls from a pitcher, look for that but adjust. You can adjust slow to fast even though most hitting instruction says you can't. I mean that if they throw a FB at upper 80s low 90s with a nasty curve that is in the 70s and they think you have trouble with the curve, you can look curve and adjust. If the FB is 100 then you better look for that first.

If you have a bad AB, you need to realize you just setup the pitcher for your next one. That's why where they change pitchers so much today it is a little tougher to see a new one each AB because you are starting over.

 

[ababyatemydingo]

Stick it where the sun don't shine. I would tell Gatreau I am not going to look at you while I am batting. I am the one at the plate and you just sit there and shut up while I am hitting.

I am disturbed by the hitters swinging at bad pitches and letting good ones right down the middle go. 2 different ABs Jordan swung at balls and let every actual strike go. Hines let a 3-1 fastball in a crucial AB just go right to the catcher in the heart of the plate.

I am not seeing disciplined hitters. I see indecisive hitters. Gatreau get out of their <17>n' heads while they are at the plate.

Gotro has never been a quality hitting coach. He was a decent recruiter, and had some talent that overshadowed his coaching abilities. Now that the talent has dropped off, it's becoming more apparent to a lot more people

 

[Lettuce]

As a leadoff man, most are always told to work the count….but when I’ve coached, I stick my best hitter at leadoff and tell him to bust the first strike you see right back up the box.

I like the approach of letting your better hitters attack strikes and as the order goes, and the back end of the lineup comes to bat, have those guys work counts and take more pitches. I’m not asking anyone below the six hole to take any pitches. I want the pitcher to know, if he is pounding the zone, we are about to create contact.

In no world am I putting my best hitters in a 0-1 or 1-1 count because of metrics. Swing out your shoes until you have two strikes…then choke up and make contact. Kids strikeout so much more than they used to, imo

 

[HuntDawg]

We’ve struck out 15 times in 2 games, 11 of those by 3 players. 8 by Jordan and Hines who dont even know what a 2 strike approach is.

we are obviously swinging. Just not doing any damage

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

Its kind of like the Dog Pound Rock in football. When it was organic it was the best thing going, but when it became forced/scripted it lost everything. The chest bump in baseball was good when it was organic and created by those original players, but now it is simply "going through the motions" for the current players.

You are on to something. These guys have been trying to live off of the championship coat tails rather than digging deep themselves and providing that new moxy, leadership, and winners attitude

 

[We Men]

I may be the only one on this board with this attitude, but I never have been a fan of Gotro. We can find a better coach than him, IMO.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

The mental side of hitting is educated guesses much of the time. It turns into recognition and reaction as the AB goes on. I think you need to go up with a general idea of how they are going to pitch to you. Hines with those lefties should have gone up looking for the curveball. I still remember an AB of mine against Kentucky's Jeff Keener. He threw this wiffleball curveball from a submarine arm angle. No one ever saw a pitch like he threw and he had a .71 era that season. I out loud said to myself "the ball has to be behind me to swing" as I walked to the plate. I hit a HR in the SEC tournament in that AB in the 8th inning to go up 2 to 1. I would not have had a chance without mentally preparing for the situation.

So if you are going to predominantly see breaking balls from a pitcher, look for that but adjust. You can adjust slow to fast even though most hitting instruction says you can't. I mean that if they throw a FB at upper 80s low 90s with a nasty curve that is in the 70s and they think you have trouble with the curve, you can look curve and adjust. If the FB is 100 then you better look for that first.

If you have a bad AB, you need to realize you just setup the pitcher for your next one. That's why where they change pitchers so much today it is a little tougher to see a new one each AB because you are starting over.

I coached the pitching and not the hitting. The only thing I told hitters was pretty much which you're saying that it's a lot about your state of mind when you step to the plate. Your attitude has a lot to do with whether you make contact with that ball, and I wouldn't say I like some of the attitude displayed at the plate by our players...

 

[Baddog11]

hitting your chest with your fist is really, really dumb. Don’t hit yourself one of the first things you learn. (Don’t put hand on hot stove analogy) It’s like giving yourself cpr when you don’t need it and can throw off the rhythm of your heart leading to tragic catastrophe. Must be a whole bunch of stupid up and down the whole organization.

 

[60sdog]

The mental side of hitting is educated guesses much of the time. It turns into recognition and reaction as the AB goes on. I think you need to go up with a general idea of how they are going to pitch to you. Hines with those lefties should have gone up looking for the curveball. I still remember an AB of mine against Kentucky's Jeff Keener. He threw this wiffleball curveball from a submarine arm angle. No one ever saw a pitch like he threw and he had a .71 era that season. I out loud said to myself "the ball has to be behind me to swing" as I walked to the plate. I hit a HR in the SEC tournament in that AB in the 8th inning to go up 2 to 1. I would not have had a chance without mentally preparing for the situation.

So if you are going to predominantly see breaking balls from a pitcher, look for that but adjust. You can adjust slow to fast even though most hitting instruction says you can't. I mean that if they throw a FB at upper 80s low 90s with a nasty curve that is in the 70s and they think you have trouble with the curve, you can look curve and adjust. If the FB is 100 then you better look for that first.

If you have a bad AB, you need to realize you just setup the pitcher for your next one. That's why where they change pitchers so much today it is a little tougher to see a new one each AB because you are starting over.

I clearly remember Jeff Keener and that HR in the SEC tournament in 81. A big moment that season.

Wasn’t that the year y’all took the Great Western Road Trip? If I recall, you had a bunch of HR’s and RBI’s in those 6 games. And one game was against UNLV, with the final being 23-17, and the game lasting about 6 hours, correct?

 

[GloryDawg]

Odd no one cared when magnum and Allen and all were doing it.

maybe the message is getting stale. And I’m not saying I like that either…. But I just don’t see talented hitters at the plate. Larry should be a 7-9 guy. Chance a 5-6 hitter. Hines is boom or bust.. and Jordan is pitchable. The rest of the guys look extremely average.

As far as we know they were ignoring what the coach told them to do. There really wasn't anything the coach could do about it. ********

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

I clearly remember Jeff Keener and that HR in the SEC tournament in 81. A big moment that season.

Wasn’t that the year y’all took the Great Western Road Trip? If I recall, you had a bunch of HR’s and RBI’s in those 6 games. And one game was against UNLV, with the final being 23-17, and the game lasting about 6 hours, correct?

Yeah. I had 10 RBIs in that game. A Grand Slam, 3 run HR (because of a wild pitch that brought home a run during the AB) 2 singles for the other 3. Had all sorts of guys on base each AB.

 

[YesIAmAPirate]

They should grab their crotch to tell themselves it's time to nut up.

Is this a live look at Texas A&M?

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Hitters and pitchers are being micromanaged by coaches all over college baseball. It’s ridiculous. And ultimately leads to worse players instead of better ones.

Shlt yes, and it starts early. They micromanage at 8 years old now. Unless you are a truly good player, then you get to do what you want.

 

[aTotal360]

Shlt yes, and it starts early. They micromanage at 8 years old now. Unless you are a truly good player, then you get to do what you want.

I got a buddy that made it to the majors after grinding in the minor leagues. He said foreign players have a huge advantage in the minors because they pretend they don't understand English and play the game aggressively. They purposely ignore coaching and blame it on the language barrier. Because of this, they get to swing freely and steal when they want to. They can compile stats more easily. Lots of these coaches are ruining the game. They are just like refs who want to feel overly important. They want to win the game based on their decisions, not player performance. The micromanaging is insane.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Odd no one cared when magnum and Allen and all were doing it.

maybe the message is getting stale. And I’m not saying I like that either…. But I just don’t see talented hitters at the plate. Larry should be a 7-9 guy. Chance a 5-6 hitter. Hines is boom or bust.. and Jordan is pitchable. The rest of the guys look extremely average.

After one weekend, I'm closer to your viewpoint. I have no data or stats to back this up, just my eyes. I thought Air Force's players looked just as athletic as ours were.

But again, throughout the modern era (basically the last 25 years), that seems to be a theme. MSU baseball hasn't simply had 'better talent' since the late 90s, and it was at best 2nd or 3rd in the SEC back then, on the whole, year in and year out. LSU was obviously 1. And we haven't been #1 since the 80s.

People truly do overestimate our standing. We are like a top 15 all-time level baseball program. 2nd tier type, like an Auburn/Oregon/Clemson football. We can amass the talent to win a title once in a while, but not dominate on a yearly basis. The infrastructure just isn't there for that, and hasn't been for a long time. I tend to think we got lucky in the 80s and just cared before others, so you could say it's never been there.

All that to say, we are trying to play analytic baseball with players who aren't good enough to make the analytics work. We did this during Polk 2 and it seems we are doing it now. Cohen could probably take our current team and win a natty.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I got a buddy that made it to the majors after grinding in the minor leagues. He said foreign players have a huge advantage in the minors because they pretend they don't understand English and play the game aggressively. They purposely ignore coaching and blame it on the language barrier. Because of this, they get to swing freely and steal when they want to. They can compile stats more easily. Lots of these coaches are ruining the game. They are just like refs who want to feel overly important. They want to win the game based on their decisions, not player performance. The micromanaging is insane.

Can't say it any better than that.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

It's Launch Angle Bro hitting. Hitting has been complicated by so many while trying to do what Ted Williams was doing 60 years ago.

 

[HuntDawg]

After one weekend, I'm closer to your viewpoint. I have no data or stats to back this up, just my eyes. I thought Air Force's players looked just as athletic as ours were.

But again, throughout the modern era (basically the last 25 years), that seems to be a theme. MSU baseball hasn't simply had 'better talent' since the late 90s, and it was at best 2nd or 3rd in the SEC back then, on the whole, year in and year out. LSU was obviously 1. And we haven't been #1 since the 80s.

People truly do overestimate our standing. We are like a top 15 all-time level baseball program. 2nd tier type, like an Auburn/Oregon/Clemson football. We can amass the talent to win a title once in a while, but not dominate on a yearly basis. The infrastructure just isn't there for that, and hasn't been for a long time. I tend to think we got lucky in the 80s and just cared before others, so you could say it's never been there.

All that to say, we are trying to play analytic baseball with players who aren't good enough to make the analytics work. We did this during Polk 2 and it seems we are doing it now. Cohen could probably take our current team and win a natty.

I hope maybe when Mershon comes back.. he goes to the lead off spot? Bumping everyone down a position. But even then Mershon projects to be as the perfect 9 hole type hitter to me.

The two backup catchers and solid, but you cant project either to do much with the bat after watching them.

We need a true "hitter" in the order. Jordan and Hines are going to strike out a ton. Good to have a legit hitter to put between or around them that doesnt strike out but can still be productive. Ledbetter was vastly underrated IMO. Also need another guy that can step up and be a 15 homer type guy.

really got to have another guy step up. Been hearing downs forever, but he didnt look any better. Freshman lefty from florida, looks the part phyiscally, but he's a freshman. Cupp obviously doesnt look like a guy thats about to blister the SEC as a freshman.

But i do agree with a lot of your post above. Think you hit the nail on the head on something some people dont understand.

 

[knock him out john]

The mental side of hitting is educated guesses much of the time. It turns into recognition and reaction as the AB goes on. I think you need to go up with a general idea of how they are going to pitch to you. Hines with those lefties should have gone up looking for the curveball. I still remember an AB of mine against Kentucky's Jeff Keener. He threw this wiffleball curveball from a submarine arm angle. No one ever saw a pitch like he threw and he had a .71 era that season. I out loud said to myself "the ball has to be behind me to swing" as I walked to the plate. I hit a HR in the SEC tournament in that AB in the 8th inning to go up 2 to 1. I would not have had a chance without mentally preparing for the situation.

So if you are going to predominantly see breaking balls from a pitcher, look for that but adjust. You can adjust slow to fast even though most hitting instruction says you can't. I mean that if they throw a FB at upper 80s low 90s with a nasty curve that is in the 70s and they think you have trouble with the curve, you can look curve and adjust. If the FB is 100 then you better look for that first.

If you have a bad AB, you need to realize you just setup the pitcher for your next one. That's why where they change pitchers so much today it is a little tougher to see a new one each AB because you are starting over.

I remember Keener. Someone drove one out or in the corner for a big hit. May have been G man. The crowd went nuts because he was dominating us.

 

[beachbumdawg]

Shlt yes, and it starts early. They micromanage at 8 years old now. Unless you are a truly good player, then you get to do what you want.

our hs varsity is this way (they were coached into a loss on Saturday) but the JV coach lets his boys play within certain confines

we don’t do that on our 12u team - I want to create monsters at the plate
Very minimal signs - I want them to learn the game, see what the other team is trying to do and play fast - I don’t want robots
3-0 green lights you bet
We bunt to hit not sacrifice - outs are precious im not giving you one

 

[beachbumdawg]

It's Launch Angle Bro hitting. Hitting has been complicated by so many while trying to do what Ted Williams was doing 60 years ago.

Every ball put into play has a launch angle - just stay away from teacherman

 

[HuntDawg]

Think some of this is overblown:

I think MOST coaches at the high college level let their players play:
ex. They dont give steal signs, they give green lights
ex. You dont see hit and runs anymore-- you see run and hits
ex. Think most dont ask players to do anything abnormal at the plate except with 2 strikes.
ex. The good hitters do get 3-0 green lights.

I do think most coaches call pitches. Which can be argued over coaching or not, but I think is fine. Even then some coaches give certain pitchers or maybe even the entire staff the opportunity to shake off and go to another pitch if they dont like whats called.

Same can be said with hitting coaches. You may not like or think the same as that coach, but thats something you should have thought of before choosing that college. Also I dont know of any hitting coach that changes someone whose proven to be successful.

They do manage the late games more so in the college game. As you saw with Lemo bunting in the 8th. and some misuse anaylytics IMO.

But in general when you watch an SEC baseball game.. you dont see coaches over coaching these players. For the most part. Its sit back and let em swing away.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

I remember Keener. Someone drove one out or in the corner for a big hit. May have been G man. The crowd went nuts because he was dominating us.

I hit a 2 run homer right down the left field line. That put us up 2-0 in the 7th.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

Think some of this is overblown:

I think MOST coaches at the high college level let their players play:
ex. They dont give steal signs, they give green lights
ex. You dont see hit and runs anymore-- you see run and hits
ex. Think most dont ask players to do anything abnormal at the plate except with 2 strikes.
ex. The good hitters do get 3-0 green lights.

I do think most coaches call pitches. Which can be argued over coaching or not, but I think is fine. Even then some coaches give certain pitchers or maybe even the entire staff the opportunity to shake off and go to another pitch if they dont like whats called.

Same can be said with hitting coaches. You may not like or think the same as that coach, but thats something you should have thought of before choosing that college. Also I dont know of any hitting coach that changes someone whose proven to be successful.

They do manage the late games more so in the college game. As you saw with Lemo bunting in the 8th. and some misuse anaylytics IMO.

But in general when you watch an SEC baseball game.. you dont see coaches over coaching these players. For the most part. Its sit back and let em swing away.

Are you kidding? I can't speak to HS but I see these college teams come in with wrist bands, belt loop play sheets and now the electronic communication devices. Are they in the helmets now? One of our players at first base kept messing with something in his helmet. They look at it between every pitch. Air Force wasn't even giving signals between the pitcher and catcher. Both got the call from the dugout. Thank God for the pitch clock to help alleviate some of that.

 

[HuntDawg]

Are you kidding? I can't speak to HS but I see these college teams come in with wrist bands, belt loop play sheets and now the electronic communication devices. Are they in the helmets now? One of our players at first base kept messing with something in his helmet. They look at it between every pitch. Air Force wasn't even giving signals between the pitcher and catcher. Both got the call from the dugout. Thank God for the pitch clock to help alleviate some of that.

Well I agree I don’t like that either. But that isn’t over coaching. That’s how signals are given now. Thank the Astros for that.

coaches giving signals and fake signals ave happened all thru the years. But now instead of touching your nose you’re reading a card. It aucks but is what it is… and it’s the same amount of coaching that’s been in the game for the last 30 years at the college level.