The answer to our football future

bulldoghair

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If we’re not going to be fully committed to football monetarily, spending more on baseball and basketball, why then don’t we just commit to a niche system, like Army or Navy. Even Leach’s system was based off triple option concepts and was the air raid version of a niche system. Otherwise, by not fully committing monetarily, spending less than everyone else in the conference, and trying to run common schemes on offense and defense, they is the definition of stupid and dumb with regards to trying to win games. What are we doing?
If we ran a niche system, much less common schemes on offense and defense, we could utilize talent in different ways, minimizing poachers poaching us, and thus also then being able to develop players along the way as well. Because of this then good talent used differently would cost us less. Not to mention this type of coach and coaching staff as well.
 
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GhostOfJackie

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If we’re not going to be fully committed to football monetarily, spending more on baseball and basketball, why then don’t we just commit to a niche system, like Army or Navy. Even Leach’s system was based off triple option concepts and was the air raid version of a niche system. Otherwise, by not fully committing monetarily, spending less than everyone else in the conference, and trying to run common schemes on offense and defense, they is the definition of stupid and dumb with regards to trying to win games. What are we doing?
If we ran a niche system, much less come schemes on offense and defense, we could utilize talent in different ways, minimizing poachers poaching us, and thus also then being able to develop players along the way as well. Because of this then good talent used differently would cost us less. Not to mention this type of coach and coaching staff as well.
All do respect, but I think that's a terrible idea. You think ticket sales are down now, try installing a triple option or Wing-T in the SEC. That's a 1980's Mississippi State "poor us" mentality and won't get us anywhere. I hate to tell you, but Mississippi State is in a great financial situation, short of our need to catch up with NIL. We are slowly doing that.

Continue to hire good coaches who can recruit and coach, find creative ways to make up for our NIL shortcomings enough to keep ourselves from the very bottom of the SEC in that regard, and keep ourselves in a position to win 7-8-9 games each season. These past 2 years have been tough, but we are not as bad off as you think. We were delt a shorthand with Coach passing and making a bad hire the next season. That's less to do with NIL and more to do with **** luck.

Look at recruiting rankings. Not a perfect indicator I know, but our 2025 recruiting ranking was 12th in the SEC, one behind the program we like to compare ourselves to... not last. in 2023 it was #10 in the SEC, one behind that same program. Yes, we got ourselves into a bad situation and the NIL landscape has hurt us, but we need to continue to invest and hire good coaches. Vandy, Kentucky, Arkansas, Missouri, Ole Miss are the schools we need to keep in our shadows and it's very possible.

WE WILL BE FINE
 
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patdog

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The answer to our football future is look at what schools like Mississippi, Kentucky and Missouri are doing. They're managing to be competitive with somewhat limited NIL resources. Granted we do need to grow our NIL but it's not like they're double where we are now. Running a niche offense will get us killed in the SEC.
 

Ranchdawg

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The answer to our football future is look at what schools like Mississippi, Kentucky and Missouri are doing. They're managing to be competitive with somewhat limited NIL resources. Granted we do need to grow our NIL but it's not like they're double where we are now. Running a niche offense will get us killed in the SEC.
Uhh, Kentucky not so much.
 

HRMSU

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Shoot, go full wishbone. Why not?
Personal. Grew up rooting for a team from the state I was born in before I was lucky enough to convert to State. Head coach was 55-18 over 5 years or so and got s-canned because he couldn't beat the best teams. They ran the wishbone/triple option exclusively and it pretty much eliminated downside risk of the upset but if they fell behind by two TDs to a good team it was pretty much over. Hard to come back when the clock is running all the time. That's my long term answer because just about anything is better than the short term current state of State.
 

johnson86-1

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The answer to our football future is look at what schools like Mississippi, Kentucky and Missouri are doing. They're managing to be competitive with somewhat limited NIL resources. Granted we do need to grow our NIL but it's not like they're double where we are now. Running a niche offense will get us killed in the SEC.

Depends on what you mean by niche. If you mean the triple option, yes, it will get you killed. The air raid as Leach ran it was niche, and it would have been fine. It's not magic and wasn't going to let us beat teams that just completely outmatched us talent wise (just like he couldn't beat UW with WSU recruits), but it would have let us get some upsets and be competitive with teams of similar talent, provided he could adjust to the NIL and transfer era, which I'm not sure he would have been able to.

I don't know if you call the power spread mullen ran niche, but it was good at allowing us to outclass G5 schools and be competitive against so so SEC schools, but just like the air raid, wasn't magic that would let us beat teams that just outclassed us.

As long as we're not trying to run the triple option or wing T or a traditional run first offense using the I formation, I don't think the system matters as much as just having good coaching. I guess realistically we need a system that we can implement quickly because we're going to have significant turnover every year because of unlimited transfers.

We need build an offense around the players we have. Not Vice versa.
I'm not sure how realistic this is. Everybody pretty much runs a system and recruits to it, and then you do the best you can to tailor to your talent within your system.
 
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HRMSU

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At football games, use whatever funds you were putting towards football and just give away unlimited busch light and coors banquet, save the rest of the money and put it towards baseball and basketball. we'll survive.
I think you are on to something!

Season tickets = free camo Busch light six pack or Natty Light draft at all games and 2 free tickets to the weiner dog races....bet!

Kick in some NIL money and you can stay until dark to watch the LED light show.
 

bulldoghair

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I don't know if you call the power spread mullen ran niche, but it was good at allowing us to outclass G5 schools and be competitive against so so SEC schools, but just like the air raid, wasn't magic that would let us beat teams that just outclassed us.

I guess realistically we need a system that we can implement quickly because we're going to have significant turnover every year because of unlimited transfers.
Yes at the time Mullen/Meyer offense was still considered a niche. Especially when Mullen came here, he was allowed to do whatever he wanted and he went full niche base of that offense. Remember when we had two pass attempts in the second half and beat Florida at their place. Meyer post game was almost giddy giving praise to the single wing that Mullen basically ran and beat them.

Btw, turnover would be significantly lower running a less common system. Development would be better that way too.
 
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bulldoghair

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Leach and company burned a lot of Mississippi recruiting bridges….its going to be very hard to rebuild those…..
No it’s not. He’s dead. Whoever is at the helm, it’s a new system and new people in all regards. Scholarships and opportunities for players is all that matters. Especially if you ran a niche system, it might include players at this level that didn’t get the opportunity from others. Burned bridges is a tired excuse. It means nothing with a new regime
 

L4Dawg

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No it’s not. He’s dead. Whoever is at the helm, it’s a new system and new people in all regards. Scholarships and opportunities for players is all that matters. Especially if you ran a niche system, it might include players at this level that didn’t get the opportunity from others. Burned bridges is a tired excuse. It means nothing with a new regime
It means EVERYTHING to a new regime.
 
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It’s going take a couple of upsets to get momentum for the program to get back on track

I do not think we make a bowl game this year at all but we are going to need to upset to power 4 teams on our schedule .

Avoid losing to NIU, USM, and alcorn.

Beat 2 of
Ole Miss, Tennessee, Arkansas , Missouri

Go 5-7 and then you have something to build off of .

Recruits are not coming to play for a 2-10 program unless we offered them double what any other program would and we aren’t Texas.
 

eckie1

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Depends on what you mean by niche. If you mean the triple option, yes, it will get you killed. The air raid as Leach ran it was niche, and it would have been fine. It's not magic and wasn't going to let us beat teams that just completely outmatched us talent wise (just like he couldn't beat UW with WSU recruits), but it would have let us get some upsets and be competitive with teams of similar talent, provided he could adjust to the NIL and transfer era, which I'm not sure he would have been able to.

I don't know if you call the power spread mullen ran niche, but it was good at allowing us to outclass G5 schools and be competitive against so so SEC schools, but just like the air raid, wasn't magic that would let us beat teams that just outclassed us.

As long as we're not trying to run the triple option or wing T or a traditional run first offense using the I formation, I don't think the system matters as much as just having good coaching. I guess realistically we need a system that we can implement quickly because we're going to have significant turnover every year because of unlimited transfers.


I'm not sure how realistic this is. Everybody pretty much runs a system and recruits to it, and then you do the best you can to tailor to your talent within your system.
Relf Coast Offense almost took us a very, very long way. Just saying.
 

johnson86-1

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Relf Coast Offense almost took us a very, very long way. Just saying.
I think the Relf Coast is probably not a bad option. We implemented it pretty quickly and ran it with a QB that wouldn't have been really high on any blue blood's board until the Michigan game probably. The potential downside is it not being attractive to receivers.
 

Leeshouldveflanked

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No it’s not. He’s dead. Whoever is at the helm, it’s a new system and new people in all regards. Scholarships and opportunities for players is all that matters. Especially if you ran a niche system, it might include players at this level that didn’t get the opportunity from others. Burned bridges is a tired excuse. It means nothing with a new regime
Dudek and Emerick did a lot of damage, plus lots of bad evaluations… go back and look at Leach’s signing classes at MSU…
 
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GloryDawg

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I think Lebby like Kiffin have niche system. It's fast. That's it's secret. His first series after the defense has been on the field needs to run slow, giving the DC time to make adjustments.
 

ckDOG

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On paper: I could buy embracing some kind of power run up the gut system with a roster full of road graders to take advantage of the trend on defense to get more speed to defend sideline to sideline schemes. Just run over the smaller players and control the clock.

Counter: could be as exciting as watching the grass grow - even if we won.
 

85Bears

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We have to overpay for average players
Shouldn’t have let Arnett blow up the program and then go 2-10. If you don’t have NIL money you shouldn’t have let Arnett burn the program down.

doesn’t matter what recruiting bridge you have if you don’t have the nil money to compete with lsu and ole miss just admit it and quit making up crap
 

blacklistedbully

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I've suggested this a few times over the years, but nobody seems to think it is doable. But if we could be just half-way decent with it, I think it might give us a puncher's chance against anybody. This, however was predicated on our past ability to field a very-good-to-great defense.

Run a system that has something like an Air Raid, but also have a 2nd-unit that runs a traditional triple-option. Maybe get some less highly recruited players in to run the TO, assign an assistant coach to handle that unit. For the 1's, run an option that perhaps isn't a huge transition for players on the TO 2nd unit to switch to when needed or when they show great promise.

The biggest challenge would be for O-linemen, especially if your 1's run a Leach-style AR, with wide spreads as opposed to the tight ones you'd expect from tradition TO. For the rest, it seems to me much would be transferable. For example, recall Eric Moulds thrived in the Wingbone, then had no problem transitioning to a pro-set in the NFL.

The upside is this:

We know the traditional TO can be defeated by superior athletes on defense if they have practiced it enough to have the discipline needed to maintain assignments, etc. But we also know that even schools with great defenses get a little nervous if they have just a week to prepare. Imagine how difficult that becomes if the opposing team's defense has to prepare for both. Imagine the challenge of getting your guys ready in one week to defend against both options when each requires a very different approach.

If we could be just halfway decent at both, the other team's defense would have to split time preparing for both, meaning they get less preparation for each. In that scenario, might we not then have a greater chance of nullifying their talent advantage?

Another beneift of such a system would be we'd probably not need the higher-rated recruits or the higher-rated portal players that cost so much and that force us to compete on the same level as those with much greater buying power. For those of you who keep talking about how we're doing pretty well nationally on NIL, as long as we are in the SEC our NIL wealth is absolutely relative to what we're up against in the SEC. We play games vs SEC teams every year, at least 5 of which will have MASSIVE NIL advantages.

Within our conference we'll have about 10 teams with double-to-triple our NIL budget, so even the ones we don't have to play in any given year can affect us by cherry-picking our best and buying them off. Once you get past the top 8 or so you really start to see, let's call it the "SEC Relativity Effect", where your national NIL ranking looks pretty good on paper, but when compared to the difference within the SEC, we're much closer to Western Kentucky than we are the middle-of-the-pack SEC.

To me, it seems our national NIL ranking might be good for our OOC schedule, but is anything from a slight disadvantage against 3 or 4 SEC schools to a significant disadvantage vs. 8 or 9. Well, we play just 4 OOC games in the regular season, 3 vs SEC teams that outspend us by a mile and 5 vs SEC teams that outspend us by lapping us 2-4 times!

Do the math. We are not going to see any consistent success in football in the existing system, barring an occasional blind-squirrel/nut exception no matter where we rank nationally in NIL as long as we can't come even close to what our main competition has in-conference.

So, we have to think outside-the-box and come up with ways to be competitive on the field even as we can't with NIL.
 
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bulldoghair

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I think Lebby like Kiffin have niche system. It's fast. That's it's secret. His first series after the defense has been on the field needs to run slow, giving the DC time to make adjustments.
Both are common schemes now a days. The problem is that we have less talent.
What we need is to think like Mel Gibson's character in the Patriot, Benjamin Martin, who had success leading a band of militiamen using guerrilla warfare tactics to fight the British.
 

Maroon13

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You want to be niche in football.... join the ACC or Big12. Then you will have a punchers chance most weekends.

Also, in the ACC you lose nothing as far as basketball and baseball.

" sugar daddy sec pays more" our Athletic revenue was half in 2014 of what it is now. .
 
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jethreauxdawg

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Both are common schemes now a days. The problem is that we have less talent.
What we need is to think like Mel Gibson's character in the Patriot, Benjamin Martin, who had success leading a band of militiamen using guerrilla warfare tactics to fight the British.
So do we shoot the head coach or OC first?
 
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OG Goat Holder

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provided he could adjust to the NIL and transfer era, which I'm not sure he would have been able to.
Not sure why you all keep saying that, he did just fine. His portal recruiting was great. NIL is NIL, everybody had to adjust. Our recruiting classes under Leach were mid-20s just like the rest.

I don't know if you call the power spread mullen ran niche, but it was good at allowing us to outclass G5 schools and be competitive against so so SEC schools, but just like the air raid, wasn't magic that would let us beat teams that just outclassed us.
Was slightly niche, but not really. What Mullen and Leach had in common was simplicity, and no matter what we do, that's what we have to find. Mullen's teams were very disciplined with good fundamentals, while Leach's teams were fundamental at running that offense.

Dudek and Emerick did a lot of damage, plus lots of bad evaluations… go back and look at Leach’s signing classes at MSU…
Yeah, I did, and they were all mid-20s, AGAIN.

Ya'lls trope gets tired. The peaches good ole boy brigade needed to have 'damage' done to it and the bridge burned across to said damaged area. For the love of God.
 
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OG Goat Holder

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If we’re not going to be fully committed to football monetarily, spending more on baseball and basketball, why then don’t we just commit to a niche system, like Army or Navy. Even Leach’s system was based off triple option concepts and was the air raid version of a niche system. Otherwise, by not fully committing monetarily, spending less than everyone else in the conference, and trying to run common schemes on offense and defense, they is the definition of stupid and dumb with regards to trying to win games. What are we doing?
If we ran a niche system, much less common schemes on offense and defense, we could utilize talent in different ways, minimizing poachers poaching us, and thus also then being able to develop players along the way as well. Because of this then good talent used differently would cost us less. Not to mention this type of coach and coaching staff as well.
I've suggested this a few times over the years, but nobody seems to think it is doable. But if we could be just half-way decent with it, I think it might give us a puncher's chance against anybody. This, however was predicated on our past ability to field a very-good-to-great defense.

Run a system that has something like an Air Raid, but also have a 2nd-unit that runs a traditional triple-option. Maybe get some less highly recruited players in to run the TO, assign an assistant coach to handle that unit. For the 1's, run an option that perhaps isn't a huge transition for players on the TO 2nd unit to switch to when needed or when they show great promise.

The biggest challenge would be for O-linemen, especially if your 1's run a Leach-style AR, with wide spreads as opposed to the tight ones you'd expect from tradition TO. For the rest, it seems to me much would be transferable. For example, recall Eric Moulds thrived in the Wingbone, then had no problem transitioning to a pro-set in the NFL.

The upside is this:

We know the traditional TO can be defeated by superior athletes on defense if they have practiced it enough to have the discipline needed to maintain assignments, etc. But we also know that even schools with great defenses get a little nervous if they have just a week to prepare. Imagine how difficult that becomes if the opposing team's defense has to prepare for both. Imagine the challenge of getting your guys ready in one week to defend against both options when each requires a very different approach.

If we could be just halfway decent at both, the other team's defense would have to split time preparing for both, meaning they get less preparation for each. In that scenario, might we not then have a greater chance of nullifying their talent advantage?

Another beneift of such a system would be we'd probably not need the higher-rated recruits or the higher-rated portal players that cost so much and that force us to compete on the same level as those with much greater buying power. For those of you who keep talking about how we're doing pretty well nationally on NIL, as long as we are in the SEC our NIL wealth is absolutely relative to what we're up against in the SEC. We play games vs SEC teams every year, at least 5 of which will have MASSIVE NIL advantages.

Within our conference we'll have about 10 teams with double-to-triple our NIL budget, so even the ones we don't have to play in any given year can affect us by cherry-picking our best and buying them off. Once you get past the top 8 or so you really start to see, let's call it the "SEC Relativity Effect", where your national NIL ranking looks pretty good on paper, but when compared to the difference within the SEC, we're much closer to Western Kentucky than we are the middle-of-the-pack SEC.

To me, it seems our national NIL ranking might be good for our OOC schedule, but is anything from a slight disadvantage against 3 or 4 SEC schools to a significant disadvantage vs. 8 or 9. Well, we play just 4 OOC games in the regular season, 3 vs SEC teams that outspend us by a mile and 5 vs SEC teams that outspend us by lapping us 2-4 times!

Do the math. We are not going to see any consistent success in football in the existing system, barring an occasional blind-squirrel/nut exception no matter where we rank nationally in NIL as long as we can't come even close to what our main competition has in-conference.

So, we have to think outside-the-box and come up with ways to be competitive on the field even as we can't with NIL.
I suggest it all the time too, but we have too many bubbas who just don't want to accept what we are. And it's been to our detriment forever.

Our most successful teams have been built on defense first and foremost. We also have a 'different' offense around that (Emory's option, Jackie's big bruising OL and backs, Mullen's QB game, and Leach's Air Raid). It's just what we have to do.
 
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OG Goat Holder

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You want to be niche in football.... join the ACC or Big12. Then you will have a punchers chance most weekends.

Also, in the ACC you lose nothing as far as basketball and baseball.

" sugar daddy sec pays more" our Athletic revenue was half in 2014 of what it is now. .
You all keep saying things like this, the equivalent of 'man up', but you give no reasons this will be successful. If we try to do what the blue bloods do, we will lose to them, like always. We never learn our lesson.

You have to be different, and one day, when we've won enough to have a 100k seat stadium and an NIL the size of the blue bloods, we can start talking about doing what the blue bloods do. But that day is at minimum 30 years away.
 
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GloryDawg

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Yes at the time Mullen/Meyer offense was still considered a niche. Especially when Mullen came here, he was allowed to do whatever he wanted and he went full niche base of that offense. Remember when we had two pass attempts in the second half and beat Florida at their place. Meyer post game was almost giddy giving praise to the single wing that Mullen basically ran and beat them.

Btw, turnover would be significantly lower running a less common system. Development would be better that way too.
Air raid is probably just as common now.
 

golferdog

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We're going to come back at some point and start winning again. We were in a HUGE hole due to bad luck and are having to fight out of it. Only a blue blood program could turn it around in football in 1 year. Not happening at MSU, but we will be back in a couple of years. Maybe not this year, but in 2026 MSU should start making bowl games again.
 

The Cooterpoot

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If we’re not going to be fully committed to football monetarily, spending more on baseball and basketball, why then don’t we just commit to a niche system, like Army or Navy. Even Leach’s system was based off triple option concepts and was the air raid version of a niche system. Otherwise, by not fully committing monetarily, spending less than everyone else in the conference, and trying to run common schemes on offense and defense, they is the definition of stupid and dumb with regards to trying to win games. What are we doing?
If we ran a niche system, much less common schemes on offense and defense, we could utilize talent in different ways, minimizing poachers poaching us, and thus also then being able to develop players along the way as well. Because of this then good talent used differently would cost us less. Not to mention this type of coach and coaching staff as well.
We are fully committed to football
 

Maroon13

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States football success is recruiting physical athletes on defense and an athlete at Qb. Those type guys are in your backyard and are obtainable.

State should hire a defensive HC next and go with this recipe.
 
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Rockydawg

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If we’re not going to be fully committed to football monetarily, spending more on baseball and basketball, why then don’t we just commit to a niche system, like Army or Navy. Even Leach’s system was based off triple option concepts and was the air raid version of a niche system. Otherwise, by not fully committing monetarily, spending less than everyone else in the conference, and trying to run common schemes on offense and defense, they is the definition of stupid and dumb with regards to trying to win games. What are we doing?
If we ran a niche system, much less common schemes on offense and defense, we could utilize talent in different ways, minimizing poachers poaching us, and thus also then being able to develop players along the way as well. Because of this then good talent used differently would cost us less. Not to mention this type of coach and coaching staff as well.
I've been saying this for decades.
 
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