The Case for and Against a Mid-Season Firing...

[Faustdog]

Pros:

1. Shows our seriousness and the urgency of the situation.
2. Could light a fire for a program that is absolutely stagnant with no clear path to improvement.
3. Last time we did it we made the CWS.

Cons:

1. Selmon would be responsible for the hiring.
2. Would cost more in the short term.
2. See number one again. That's all I've got.

I saw someone make a good point recently. It's hard to even get excited about wins at this point, because a few wins here and there only serve to prolong the inevitable.

 

[msstatelp1]

Whatever must happen ultimately should happen immediately.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

The problem is the optimists are going to point out that the schedule does lighten up some and there is still a path to make the NCAAT. We arguably started with our three toughest series. And that’s technically true. We just played three Top 10 teams in a row and don’t play another current Top 10 team this year (although Auburn, Bama, and Ole Miss are in the Top 15).

But let’s say somehow we do finish fairly strong and sneak in the NCAAT as a 3 seed…. Is that really moving the needle any here? Of course not.

 

[grinningmule]

Just do it and get it over with. The team will either respond or not.

 

[Bneal]

The problem is the optimists are going to point out that the schedule does lighten up some and there is still a path to make the NCAAT. We arguably started with our three toughest series. And that’s technically true. We just played three Top 10 teams in a row and don’t play another current Top 10 team this year (although Auburn, Bama, and Ole Miss are in the Top 15).

But let’s say somehow we do finish fairly strong and sneak in the NCAAT as a 3 seed…. Is that really moving the needle any here? Of course not.

Those optimists said the same with basketball and I think we finished on a 2-5 note? Somewhere in that range. What the trend is,that is concerning, is the body language of players and fans in all three “big” sports is indifference. It’s why I’ve had to back wayyyyy up from MSU sports the last couple years. I don’t know what will happen down the road, but we are getting lapped by all our rivals while admin whistle through the graveyard.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Just do it and get it over with. The team will either respond or not.

 

[maroonmadman]

The only thing wrong with firing him now is "The Cannizaro" effect. Selmon will have an entire season, like Cohen did, to screw up the next hire, like Cohen did. Although I'm inclined to believe it should happen.

 

[HailStout]

You guys are looking at this all wrong. There is fun to be had. Our baseball team is like bizarro Alabama football. Instead of being amazed at the way they win, we get to be in awe of the ways they find to lose. In nascar the wrecks are way more exciting than the racing, and we get to watch a wreck that lasts an entire season. We are truly blessed if you think about it.

ETA: I don’t think selmon has the balls to pull the trigger

 

[Seinfeld]

Ok, so here's the most recent Lemonis contract talk that I could find, and it indicates that the extension that he signed after the CWS ring would officially end June 2025. Considering the 4-year limit for state employees, this timing would make sense considering that the extension was signed in July '21.

Now my only question is... surely he hasn't been extended again during this miserable 4 year stretch, right? Right????

Here's why Mississippi State AD Zac Selmon is backing baseball coach Chris Lemonis

First-year AD Zac Selmon told the Clarion Ledger on Friday that he trusts Mississippi State baseball coach Chris Lemonis to turn the program around.

www.clarionledger.com

 

[patdog]

Makes little difference if we fire him now or fire him in 7 weeks. I just hope we do fire him. And I’m not convinced we will

 

[beachbumdawg]

Ok, so here's the most recent Lemonis contract talk that I could find, and it indicates that the extension that he signed after the CWS ring would officially end June 2025. Considering the 4-year limit for state employees, this timing would make sense considering that the extension was signed in July '21.

Now my only question is... surely he hasn't been extended again during this miserable 4 year stretch, right? Right????

Here's why Mississippi State AD Zac Selmon is backing baseball coach Chris Lemonis

First-year AD Zac Selmon told the Clarion Ledger on Friday that he trusts Mississippi State baseball coach Chris Lemonis to turn the program around.

www.clarionledger.com

Selmon words - let’s see if he really believes this

“The margin of victory or defeat is so slim,” Selmon said. “I always look at it as what are the little things? What are the details, the small things that over time add up to big results?”

 

[mcfly.sixpack]

If you fire him now it sends a message that MSU is about to get serious again about baseball. It’ll throw the fans a bone and can get some donors invigorated. Keep the path we’re on and we further dig into apathy not just for baseball but as an entire athletic department.

It’s the same fans for football, basketball and baseball and they need SOMETHING to have a little hope for.

 

[17itdawg]

Makes little difference if we fire him now or fire him in 7 weeks. I just hope we do fire him. And I’m not convinced we will

I'm with you. I'm not convinced the administration has the balls to make the change. This team could not win another game and I wouldn't be convinced they'd fire this staff until it actually happened. I have absolutely no faith in Mark Keenum to turn things around athletically or academically.

 

[Wesson Bulldog]

The issue with me is almost the same as with Croom. The past 3+seasons have felt like one loooong season. It's the same **** every year. Little to no improvement made up for with head scratching errors on defense and offense and bad in-game management of pitchers and hitters, leading to loss after loss after loss. The Lemonis era 2022 and on is the definition of insanity. The earlier the coaching change the better.

 

[ronpolk]

If you fire him now it sends a message that MSU is about to get serious again about baseball. It’ll throw the fans a bone and can get some donors invigorated. Keep the path we’re on and we further dig into apathy not just for baseball but as an entire athletic department.

It’s the same fans for football, basketball and baseball and they need SOMETHING to have a little hope for.

In reality all it does it throw the fans a bone. We will have the same pool of candidates if we fire lemonis today vs the end of the season.

If you’re sure you’re gonna pull the trigger and fire him then I could buy into the why wait argument, just do it. But you better have the discipline to run a search even if Gautreau or Parker starts to win games. Because both of them would be head coaching candidates if we were winning and there will be pressure to retain them if they cobble together some wins.

 

[Walkthedawg]

The only thing wrong with firing him now is "The Cannizaro" effect. Selmon will have an entire season, like Cohen did, to screw up the next hire, like Cohen did. Although I'm inclined to believe it should happen.

Cohen let Schlossnagle play him like a fiddle and he had zero backup plan. And didn’t see it coming till the very end. He flopped around and had to hurry and sign Lemonis just to get someone. And Cohen didn’t even pick him… Dan McDonnell recommend him.

 

[Perd Hapley]

An in-season firing only makes sense if there is actually enough time for a course correction.

Prime example would be Cannizarro. Swept by USM to start the year. We fire him based on other reasons, but that toxic situation was very clearly going to lead to a cellar finish. Instead, we ended up 1 win away from the finals when we turned things over to a guy who actually knew a little bit about running an SEC program.

 

[dawgstudent]

You don't have to fire him right now in my opinion. Just be ready to make the hire once the season ends.

 

[00Dawg]

Same, but the new coach search should've been going for a week now at minimum. Building the long list, and starting calls to agents to feel out interest. Have the short list ready in a couple of weeks and start the quiet interviews.
If it hasn't started by tomorrow, the new AD search should.

 

[Anon1728174187]

If you fire him now it sends a message that MSU is about to get serious again about baseball. It’ll throw the fans a bone and can get some donors invigorated. Keep the path we’re on and we further dig into apathy not just for baseball but as an entire athletic department.

It’s the same fans for football, basketball and baseball and they need SOMETHING to have a little hope for.

This is correct! My MSU friends have really started losing hope in the whole athletic administration. Selmon has got to do something. If you don’t have hope then you don’t have crud! If Selmon does fire Lemonis he better not screw up the hire aka Cohen. If Selmon’s hire is not top quality then I and others I know will be after Selmon.

 

[thekimmer]

Pros:

1. Shows our seriousness and the urgency of the situation.
2. Could light a fire for a program that is absolutely stagnant with no clear path to improvement.
3. Last time we did it we made the CWS.

Cons:

1. Selmon would be responsible for the hiring.
2. Would cost more in the short term.
2. See number one again. That's all I've got.

I saw someone make a good point recently. It's hard to even get excited about wins at this point, because a few wins here and there only serve to prolong the inevitable.

Pro: It releases a lot of negativity among the fan base and perhaps the team as well

 

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

Pros:

1. Shows our seriousness and the urgency of the situation.
2. Could light a fire for a program that is absolutely stagnant with no clear path to improvement.
3. Last time we did it we made the CWS.

Cons:

1. Selmon would be responsible for the hiring.
2. Would cost more in the short term.
2. See number one again. That's all I've got.

I saw someone make a good point recently. It's hard to even get excited about wins at this point, because a few wins here and there only serve to prolong the inevitable.

Don’t fire him until we know there will be no postseason. Give him a chance to “retire” to save face for all involved.

 

[Called3rdstrikedawg]

You guys are looking at this all wrong. There is fun to be had. Our baseball team is like bizarro Alabama football. Instead of being amazed at the way they win, we get to be in awe of the ways they find to lose. In nascar the wrecks are way more exciting than the racing, and we get to watch a wreck that lasts an entire season. We are truly blessed if you think about it.

ETA: I don’t think selmon has the balls to pull the trigger

Well he could play for Lemonis then. Because it requires NO balls to play for him!

 

[The Peeper]

Give him a chance to “retire” to save face for all involved.

He seemingly hasn't been too concerned about "saving face" the last 4 seasons has he??

 

[GhostOfJackie]

Pros:

1. Shows our seriousness and the urgency of the situation.
2. Could light a fire for a program that is absolutely stagnant with no clear path to improvement.
3. Last time we did it we made the CWS.

Cons:

1. Selmon would be responsible for the hiring.
2. Would cost more in the short term.
2. See number one again. That's all I've got.

I saw someone make a good point recently. It's hard to even get excited about wins at this point, because a few wins here and there only serve to prolong the inevitable.

It doesn't matter to me either way. The coaching search should have already begun, and if it hasn't then Selmon needs to be fired as well.

 

[leeinator]

The problem is the optimists are going to point out that the schedule does lighten up some and there is still a path to make the NCAAT. We arguably started with our three toughest series. And that’s technically true. We just played three Top 10 teams in a row and don’t play another current Top 10 team this year (although Auburn, Bama, and Ole Miss are in the Top 15).

But let’s say somehow we do finish fairly strong and sneak in the NCAAT as a 3 seed…. Is that really moving the needle any here? Of course not.

If we were to make a Regional.....ANY Regional.....even as 4 seed, then I think Selmon won't fire him. So, if we all want a change, we need to just tank the rest of the season for good and hope some rich alum steps up and ponies up the buyouts for the whole staff. BTW.....FWIW, I do think Parker is a good pitching coach. He just doesn't have the horses in the stable to make proper decisions, thus he ends up making some questionable ones. Our recruiting in the pitching staff HAS to improve dramatically in order to start winning again. If yall remember when UCLA beat us in the CWS finals, their team batting average was a measly .266 average. But they had 3 stud pitchers and a very good relief staff to support the starters......nothing's changed in baseball forever.....good pitching always beats good hitting.

 

[Slow Natives]

If we were to make a Regional.....ANY Regional.....even as 4 seed, then I think Selmon won't fire him. So, if we all want a change, we need to just tank the rest of the season for good and hope some rich alum steps up and ponies up the buyouts for the whole staff. BTW.....FWIW, I do think Parker is a good pitching coach. He just doesn't have the horses in the stable to make proper decisions, thus he ends up making some questionable ones. Our recruiting in the pitching staff HAS to improve dramatically in order to start winning again. If yall remember when UCLA beat us in the CWS finals, their team batting average was a measly .266 average. But they had 3 stud pitchers and a very good relief staff to support the starters......nothing's changed in baseball forever.....good pitching always beats good hitting.

Well, we did just get a pledge from a kid who has a 4.08 era in junior college…

 

[She Mate Me]

I'd likely be classified as an optimist in terms of coaches by many here. Lemonis has now lost even me. The seemingly little things we consistently don't do well are now costing us multiple games that could otherwise be wins.

I kind of think letting him go now has some merits. We're likely to finish the SEC much better than we've started it just because of the schedule layout and I honestly don't want him getting any credit for a turnaround at this point.

It's time to see if the administration few of us have any faith in is capable of managing this cluster. I doubt they are and I'll be shocked if we actually act on Lemonis now.

 

[MStateDawg]

And I’m not convinced we will

I think this staff returning is a much larger possibility than people think.

 

[MagnoliaHunter]

You guys are looking at this all wrong. There is fun to be had. Our baseball team is like bizarro Alabama football. Instead of being amazed at the way they win, we get to be in awe of the ways they find to lose. In nascar the wrecks are way more exciting than the racing, and we get to watch a wreck that lasts an entire season. We are truly blessed if you think about it.

ETA: I don’t think selmon has the balls to pull the trigger

The problem is that we are not watching the wreck, We ARE the wreck that everyone else is watching.

 

[HuntDawg]

I think this staff returning is a much larger possibility than people think.

I dont. The fact he's been asked about it in post-game interviews.. he knows the noise is there and real.

He needs to finish the season very strong... a bottom half SEC finish and a quick regional exit probably gets him the door... and at this point i cant see the team finishing any better than that.

 

[thekimmer]

Baseball can be a crazy game. Zero national championships in the 29 season coaching career of a universally recognized college baseball legend then win one under a real dud who followed it up with the worst 4 year stretch in MSU baseball history.

 

[thekimmer]

I dont. The fact he's been asked about it in post-game interviews.. he knows the noise is there and real.

He needs to finish the season very strong... a bottom half SEC finish and a quick regional exit probably gets him the door... and at this point i cant see the team finishing any better than that.

The floor should be hosting a regional. Anything less should get Lem fired outside of pulling off a Bianco-esque miracle.

 

[HuntDawg]

The floor should be hosting a regional. Anything less should get Lem fired outside of pulling off a Bianco-esque miracle.

disagree with the floor. Hosting a regional means youre a top 16 team and thats not easy to do year in and year out... and top 16 without conference and regional type bids that are given to others a touch out of the top 16.

Maybe hosting every other year or 6 years in a 10 year stretch... sure...

 

[11thEagleFan]

disagree with the floor. Hosting a regional means youre a top 16 team and thats not easy to do year in and year out... and top 16 without conference and regional type bids that are given to others a touch out of the top 16.

Maybe hosting every other year or 6 years in a 10 year stretch... sure...

I think the floor should be “in contention” for a regional host every year. A super regional at least once every 3 years, on average. Hell, USM does that and our resources aren’t close to what State has. Although it should be expected that when State goes to postseason play, they actually advance. I think Lemonis has to go, for the record.

 

[golferdog]

Makes little difference if we fire him now or fire him in 7 weeks. I just hope we do fire him. And I’m not convinced we will

I don't see it during the season, unless it continues to get worse.

 

[PBRME]

Pro
1. Lemonis gone.

Con
2. None

 

[aTotal360]

Pro
1. Lemonis gone.

Con
2. None

Careful what you ask for...

ps-I wanted Leminhayed gone 2 years ago.

 

[patdog]

I dont. The fact he's been asked about it in post-game interviews.. he knows the noise is there and real.

He needs to finish the season very strong... a bottom half SEC finish and a quick regional exit probably gets him the door... and at this point i cant see the team finishing any better than that.

I don't see any way Selmon fires him if he makes a regional. However, at this point, even making a regional is going to require a massive and immediate turnaround. We would have to go 13-9 in the last 22 games vs SEC teams to have a real chance.

 

[HuntDawg]

I don't see any way Selmon fires him if he makes a regional. However, at this point, even making a regional is going to require a massive and immediate turnaround. We would have to go 13-9 in the last 22 games vs SEC teams to have a real chance.

i agree my friend. Steve Roberson seems to think the chances are good that we rebound and make a regional... which to me seems like 12-9 down the stretch. Winning the non conference games.. and getting a game in Hoover does the trick somehow...

because I cant see us doing much better than that.