The effects of conference realignment gone mad.
- Thread starter patdog
- Start date
I sure hope they buy some offsetting carbon credits.
Cause we all know that makes the greenhouse gasses they emitted go away. **
Just imagine the travel costs for all their other sports.
They'll get used to seeing people "greet" them as they fly to and from games. And by greet, I certainly mean protest, because Ole Berk does it better than anyone.
Those are a lot of bus miles. Oh wait.
Seriously, there are people that thinking “that’s a normal July in my world”.
One of the conferences were thinking they would use Dallas for the other sports as a meeting place.
Found the mention - Sources: ACC presidents approve expansion, adding Stanford, Cal and SMU to conference (yahoo.com)
In another component that still needs formalization, the eastern schools and the two new western members would meet in Dallas to conduct competition in Olympic sports, sources tell Yahoo Sports. SMU's location would provide a hub of sorts to reduce travel costs.
How much would that really save though? Half the distance, but twice as many schools have to travel. Sure you could play multiple games in Dallas, but you could have multiple game road trips too. If anything, I think it would cost more to play in Dallas.
Coordinated multiple events though could save some money with multiple teams from each school attending…
You could call it the ACCalympics.
State of California passing a law this week requiring them to use EVs to and from the airport and Electronic Battery Powered Planes as well
Not to mention that its the worst option for everybody when it comes to the primary attendees of the Olympic sports, which would be the family and friends of the athletes themselves. Everyone on both sides has to travel.
Kind of ironic coming from Cal of all places. There are probably more green environmentalist, tree hugging, dirt sniffing, Prius driving, Unicorn breeding, hairy arm pit and legged females and leg shaving males there than any other school in the country.
Good point. Compare and contrast Hawaii and Cal air miles traveled per season
Looks like 5 games at approximately 28,500 miles.
Huntsville TX, San Diego, Pullman, Fresno, Logan UT
That’s just the cost of doing business for Hawaii though. Its not like there’s some oceanic conference they can join with Guam, Midway Island, etc.
Cal and Stanford at least had options. They could have banded together as “independents” that were a scheduling package deal and also still played each other, stayed with Oregon State / Washington State and formed their own new league that they could run with as much authority as Texas / OU exercised in the old Big 12 with some schools plucked from the WAC / MWC / WCC, or they could have joined literally any other conference, or just each been straight independent. They each chose the worst possible option.
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S.I. say it ain't about to get better either
Report: Cal Athletics’ Financial Situation Looks Grim
Jon Wilner of the San Jose Mercury News analyzes Golden Bears’ 2023 fiscal year finances and the future
www.si.com
I think the new CFP package was being negotiated at the time and they were worried about being left out in the cold. Each ACC school gets an additional $13 Million from the CFP on top of their payout from ESPN. While they're only getting 30% of the ACC media deal with ESPN, Cal & Stanford are getting full shares of the CFP payout. Independent schools not named Notre Dame get little to no CFP money unless they make it into the field of 12. G5 teams will make about $1.8 Million from the CFP each year.
I get what you're saying, but the ACC was the least bad option.
I never had many schits to give for the PAC 12 now I miss them. Regional Pride was always part of college sports now even that part's gone to schit.
They will be regretting making decisions for conference realignment just for football in the near future. These schools are going to struggle to pay the overhead for all sports. It was dumb then and still dumb. I predict football will break out and conferences that didn't align more on geography that makes sense will be aligning again
I think the SEC is the one conference who's getting it right. They've expanded and added quality schools, not just quantity like some other conferences (every other conference). AND they've kept it much more regional than any other conference.
It’s the way it should have been. Football should be separate in conference alignment.
Cal has continually shot themselves in the foot. They have a huge quantity of olympic sports(water polo, gymnastics, rowing, etc.) they have to support with under performing football and basketball programs . Cost overruns on their stadium renovation, zero fanbase outside of their alumni, the beneficiary of the worst league TV package and now selling their soul (30 cents on the dollar) to be in a conference on the other side of the continent. One of the worst managed athletic departments in the country.S.I. say it ain't about to get better either
Report: Cal Athletics’ Financial Situation Looks Grim
Jon Wilner of the San Jose Mercury News analyzes Golden Bears’ 2023 fiscal year finances and the future
Do you not think the B1G or Big 12 would have gladly taken them if they knew they would gladly handover their TV revenue over almost for free….for a decade? Of course they would. The bay area is a pretty valuable market, and it would make a ton of sense for them to serve as dance partners for USC / UCLA….or with AZ / ASU / Utah.
Ultimately they screwed themselves by trying to play hardball and overvaluing themselves. They would have, at minimum, gotten a better deal from the Big 12 than any of the other 3 former Pac 12 schools did. But, they drug their feet trying to get a better deal from a better league, and they got left out in the cold for doing so. Big 12 smartly took the birds in hand and went on with their lives.
That’s the huge mistake that ultimately killed the PAC 12. Even Washington & Oregon won’t get any more money than every school in the conference could have even after USC & UCLA left. And everyone else will get less.
No, the Big Ten wouldn’t take them even with a reduced payout because the Big Ten’s media partners were not going to pay for any more Big Ten content. Cal and Stanford taking a 30% payout would still be a net loss for the other Big Ten schools. There is literally zero value being added to the Big Ten by taking Cal and Stanford, even at a discount.
No, I don’t think the Big 12 would take them even with a reduced payout. The Big 12 flat out said they were full. Neither of those schools were a good fit culturally for the Big 12 and would have left at the first available opportunity. The Big 12 was trying to create stability. Why would they bring in two schools that felt like they were holding their noses to join and would be actively shopping themselves around? The four corner schools brought their own dance partners. They didn’t need any more.
Also, worrying about media markets is 2010 thinking. That mattered when channels were worried about being carried on regional cable packages, but we’re in the age of streaming now and we’ll really be in it after Venu and the ESPN standalone service launch. Conferences and their media partners need schools that add subscribers and neither Cal nor Stanford move that needle. The average guy walking around Oakland or San Francisco doesn’t give a rat’s аss about Stanford football anyway.
You’re right about their hubris though. If they had taken the deal ESPN put in front of them, the Pac-12 would have survived.
Some fair points, but lets revisit this below.
The Big 12 said they were full….after the five 4 corners schools jumped in. But, lets time warp to right after USC / UCLA bolted to the B1G. At that point, most everything was still in play. If you’re the Big 12, you have Cal, Stanford, Arizona, ASU, Colorado, Utah, and BYU in front of you. In what universe are Stanford and Cal not the first two choices out of those 7 universities….EVERY time? I mean, BYU or Stanford? Are we really talking about this?
As far as not being a cultural fit, I don’t really see that argument. They are a hell of a lot more of a fit there than the ACC. The obvious chess moves on the board were Oregon / Washington to the Big 10, then a mad dash for everyone else to save themselves. But Cal and Stanford simply waited too long, thinking that they’d get a better lifeline. Their own collapse and mismanagement became a walking metaphor for the entire PAC 12 demise.
Cal / Stanford are no different from any other team in the Big 12 conference….if the SEC or B1G comes after any of them….they’re gone. Point blank.
As far as the Big 12 invitation is concerned, if everyone’s reading the tea leaves like you said above, and knows the B1G ain’t interested, then thats really all that matters.
If this is the case where markets don’t matter, then why did Cal / Stanford offer nothing to the B1G after USC and UCLA joined? If USC / UCLA told the B1G “no thanks”, would the B1G have just skipped over California entirely and just proceeded to only take Oregon and Washington? I highly doubt it.
As a further retort, why were they not worth adding for the B1G, but worth it for the ACC? There’s got to be some meat on the bone there. That’s not even considering that Cal and Stanford are both two of the politically most powerful and connected universities in America….with wealthy alumni and influence all over the country. They are valuable brands for both cable and streaming.
Simply put, they shot themselves in the foot. Ended up getting a 30% cut from the worst TV deal out there, and joined a sinking ship of a conference that will very likely be dead by the time they even have a chance to get a full cut. So, they’re both absolutely guaranteed to be right back in this same boat again in 10 years or less, anyway….with not much to show for it.
Cal and Stanford have wealthy alumni but they don’t support their sports programs. Cal’s baseball teams was going to disband a few years ago until some baseball alumni stepped in and bailed it out. They have a very small fan base. Look at their radio networks. They are almost non-existent.
Cal and Stanford are academic snobs. They really wanted to be in the Big Ten but they don’t bring the TV sets like the 4 PAC 12 teams that did join. And joining the Big 12 or Mountain West is beneath them.
I can't imagine that much travel time & money for baseball, soccer, volleyball etc.. think of fans who are willing to drive regionally but not fly 2000 miles for road games. Seems all decisions being made the last few years have customer interests at the bottom. This kinda schit along with the portal & NIL need overhauling or the selfish dubmasses are gonna start losing money.
B1G should have thought a little further into the future, and just branded themselves as the B20 and made their championship game the defacto Rose Bowl of old. Two divisions of 10, each plays the 9 teams in their division. 2 champs play in the B20 Rose Bowl Conference Championship.
West Division 1: USC, UCLA, Stanford, California, Oregon, Washington
East Division 2: Penn State, Rutgers, Ohio State, Maryland, Michigan, Michigan State
Rotating Division 1: Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota
Rotating Division 2: Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern
The two rotating divisions rotate from West and East every 2 years, to give some variety, and let their fans travel out to the Left Coast. Preserves all rivalries, and minimizes travel across the country. Makes too much sense, doesn't it. Establishes the B20 as a solid conference from here on out, even if the SEC adds 4 more teams one day. I'd let them have the South, honestly.
And when that does happen (conferences start expanding beyond 20), I'd get Miami and Georgia Tech. Conquest of the huge metro areas, easily travel in and out.
West Division 1: USC, UCLA, Stanford, California, Oregon, Washington
East Division 2: Penn State, Rutgers, Ohio State, Maryland, Michigan, Michigan State
Rotating Division 1: Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota
Rotating Division 2: Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern
The two rotating divisions rotate from West and East every 2 years, to give some variety, and let their fans travel out to the Left Coast. Preserves all rivalries, and minimizes travel across the country. Makes too much sense, doesn't it. Establishes the B20 as a solid conference from here on out, even if the SEC adds 4 more teams one day. I'd let them have the South, honestly.
And when that does happen (conferences start expanding beyond 20), I'd get Miami and Georgia Tech. Conquest of the huge metro areas, easily travel in and out.
Problem is, Stanford and Cal don't bring them much they don't already have with USC and UCLA. Their next targets are much bigger than Miami and GA Tech. They're going after UNC, FSU, Virginia and they'll make a run at Texas A&M. SEC will fight them hard on all of those, and I expect they'll split them.
Meh….they can have A&M.
ETA: May be a hot take, but the more I think about it….Virginia seems to just be the Stanford of the east, as far as the B1G is concerned.
As far as TV markets are concerned, the B1G already has the DC market - and by extension of that, Northern Virginia - alread on lockdown by virtue of having Maryland already on board. Northern Virginia has 1/3 of the entire state’s population. So they really aren’t as big of a catch as one might think for the B1G.
As far as football brand for national markets, the # 1 factor, Virginia brings absolutely nothing to the table. Far worse than Stanford here. Currently they are strong in basketball, which is nice, but relatively unimportant.
Overall, it’s really hard to see them bringing in more value than a Stanford, or even a Miami. I think there’s a decent chance Virginia is SEC bound in 10 years or so.
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This. I don't get the UVA love by SEC fans. I think they would be a decent fit in some categories but football, no.
As someone said, the future is streaming and getting fans to tune into interesting match ups. The SEC, for football, needs to take FSU and Clemson before UVA. ...and before the B1G signs on FSu and Clemson.
Other than New York, Virginia is the largest state without a Big 10 or SEC school. And even in a future streaming world, it makes a difference when you've got a school that can draw up to 9,000,000 in-state streamers. UNC and FSU are the clear top 2 targets for both Big 10 and SEC. But UVA is probably #3. And Clemson isn't nearly as big a target for either as you might think. It and NC State are more of a consolation prize for the conference that misses out on the big fish.
But the B1G already has 3,000,000 of that 9,000,000 in the fold, via Northern VA market and the huge Maryland presence there. Only 6,000,000 left, many of whom already are B1G streaming subscribers.
Compare that to the San Francisco bay area (Population 7.5 million by itself) in regards to Stanford / Cal, and then all their grads all over the country who would be on the streaming hook.
Don’t really know that any of those are the case. For one, B1G is going to have to break rank on their AAC requirement and their academic snobbery tradition unlike any other to admit FSU. They might try to do that….but never have before. On the flip side, they get the whole Florida market and the academic clout from going after Miami instead.
UNC - I agree they will be a big target for both leagues. But if they are tethered to Duke as a package deal, that complicates things. I could see the B1G maybe taking both, but I don’t know that the SEC would. In that case, I think the SEC would be more than fine grabbing NC State - their football brand is the same or better than both those other schools, their basketball doesn’t suck, and its one less pie slice.
I think the clear #1 and #2 for the SEC is FSU / Clemson, for the B1G I’d probably say Miami and UNC. This is a good position for the SEC because they’ve got more flexibility.
#3 / #4 for B1G would likely be some combo of Duke (if required for UNC), Virginia, and Georgia Tech. FSU is a wildcard if they get AAC designation before the ACC folds (that’s a tongue twister). But I still think they are the SEC’s to lose in any case. If somehow the B1G plucked FSU, SEC would still probably be OK with Miami.
#3 / #4 for SEC would be Virginia or Virginia Tech, and then one of the 3 research triangle schools.
Occam’s razor scenario # 1
(UNC / Duke as package deal)
SEC gets FSU, Clemson, NC State, Virginia
B1G gets Miami, UNC, Duke, Georgia Tech
Virginia Tech goes to the Big 12, or some new hybrid conference of current ACC have-nots and Big 12 teams.
Occam’s razor scenario #2:
(UNC / Duke are split)
SEC gets FSU, Clemson, UNC, Virginia Tech
B1G gets Miami, Duke, Virginia, Georgia Tech
NC State goes to the Big 12 (or new hybrid conference above).
The political posturing will be interesting to see who can avoid being the odd team out. There are 9 teams in consideration by the Power 2, but only 8 at most are gonna get taken. The SEC has the power, because they could in theory take some combo of 8 of the 9 (everyone but Georgia Tech brings something to the table for them), whereas the B1G “brand” and current footprint only lets them choose from about 5 schools - UNC, Duke, Virginia, Miami, Georgia Tech….with FSU being a possible 6th at some point.
This is possibly true, but they are by far the biggest football brand left (outside of FSU), and that matters to the SEC. They also were built to that level without the benefit of revenue from a competitive TV deal. Dabo is sinking that ship quickly with his stubbornness on the portal / NIL, but once he’s finally out of there and they get new blood that is willing to navigate the current landscape….they’ll be back at a high level (albeit maybe not at the previous peak).
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