i can see a time in the very near future where MSU could return to the glory days of the past in baseball. As schools have to evaluate how to utilize resources with the revenue sharing model, most schools will not invest resources in baseball because of the roster size, and competition from MLB. So I see half of the league relegating baseball to little more than a club sport... then we can return to the glory of the 70's and 80's when MSU only had to contend with three or four competitive SEC teams.
The future of non revenue sports
- Thread starter ezsoil
- Start date
I think there are enough schools rich enough and bored enough and with random boosters who like baseball for there to be a bigger pool of top teams long term. I agree many will likely not fund it enough to keep up with those
Most SEC schools have committed a decent bit of capital to baseball over the years. New stadiums at Alabama, Kentucky, Florida and major renovations just about everywhere else.
The schools that will have trouble are the ones that play FCS football and are not competitive in G5 football. Southern Miss is a good example of a school that will have to either go all in with baseball or let it die for a chance to be decent in football. SEC schools will not have this issue.
What you are likely to see at SEC schools are significant drops in roster spots in Olympic sports. Texas, for example, has cut their men's swimming and diving team from 40 to 23. Track rosters at all SEC schools will drop significantly.
The schools that will have trouble are the ones that play FCS football and are not competitive in G5 football. Southern Miss is a good example of a school that will have to either go all in with baseball or let it die for a chance to be decent in football. SEC schools will not have this issue.
What you are likely to see at SEC schools are significant drops in roster spots in Olympic sports. Texas, for example, has cut their men's swimming and diving team from 40 to 23. Track rosters at all SEC schools will drop significantly.
To me, the talent level in college baseball is watered down. Anyone drafted in the 1st 3 rounds is slotted at a minimum of 720K. Most guys out of high school are taking the money and developing in A and AA. I'd like to see us funnel extra money into men's basketball since we've got a really good coach.
That's just my take.
That's just my take.
What would it take (obviously, other than a competent, innovative AD, which we lack) to embrace a future where resources are focused on what makes your brand unique?
For 50 years, UK focused on basketball, and with good results. Occasional success can be stumbled upon with the other big sports, but MBB is their brand.
I know it sounds a little corny, but Marshall Univ embraced a community mindset with its NIL, which I believe will land them more loyal recruits. I think State missed an opportunity to create a similar niche in the SEC- a baseball school where NIL is shared on some sort of more equal footing among the athletes for a more “family, team” oriented environment, which has been State’s overall identity all along.
Currently, devoting money and resources to this NIL bloodbath is akin to preparing for trench warfare by financing a factory making bows and arrows.
For 50 years, UK focused on basketball, and with good results. Occasional success can be stumbled upon with the other big sports, but MBB is their brand.
I know it sounds a little corny, but Marshall Univ embraced a community mindset with its NIL, which I believe will land them more loyal recruits. I think State missed an opportunity to create a similar niche in the SEC- a baseball school where NIL is shared on some sort of more equal footing among the athletes for a more “family, team” oriented environment, which has been State’s overall identity all along.
Currently, devoting money and resources to this NIL bloodbath is akin to preparing for trench warfare by financing a factory making bows and arrows.
This wont happen to anyone that already cares about baseball. Which is basically the entire SEC and ACC along with other schools here and there..... plus all these schools are already investing more than MSU is into baseball in terms of NIL and such at the moment.
There wont be a time in any near future where only 3-4 sec teams care about baseball... or ACC for that matter.... a school like mizzou will continue to be a bottom feeder but if you think schools like UT, Florida, Texas, TxAm, LSU, Vandy, Ole Miss, SC, and the list goes on and on... who have invested major $$ into college baseball AND are winning... are going to let it go by hte way-side.. it aint happening.
Plus the NIL deals for baseball largely come from outside the univeristy.. so its not going to effect the bottom line like some think
There wont be a time in any near future where only 3-4 sec teams care about baseball... or ACC for that matter.... a school like mizzou will continue to be a bottom feeder but if you think schools like UT, Florida, Texas, TxAm, LSU, Vandy, Ole Miss, SC, and the list goes on and on... who have invested major $$ into college baseball AND are winning... are going to let it go by hte way-side.. it aint happening.
Plus the NIL deals for baseball largely come from outside the univeristy.. so its not going to effect the bottom line like some think
Marshall had to drop out of their bowl game this year because they had 29 players in the transfer portal. We'll face several of them Labor Day weekend. There is no such thing as a loyal recruit anymore.
Honestly, I can't agree with you more. I thought the NIL would be a big help to baseball, now that it essentially eliminated the scholarship advantages so many have/had. And I still think it can be.
They did lose their coach though, which is hard to overcome. Alas, the principle is still a good one, if it comes from the AD down.
I think we could do it in football too. We really need to focus on the MS kids, and the out-of-staters with strong MSU ties. We need to mine the G5 and FCS yearly (along with JUCOs) for these guys as they develop.
Most people think this is the highest level of talent we've ever had in college. Due to NIL, and many of the prospects recognizing that you can get some good reps on the college stage, along with other benefits of college (mainly some portion of a degree....and endless pvssy), rather than toiling in the low levels of MiLB.
True. But I don't care how much "loyalty" you can generate from a player, it's not going to mean a thing when Florida or Texas offer to double their salary.
I doubt we'll have many of those anyway. And we should be able to at least keep the majority of our players home with our own NIL. Our strategy is going to have to involve having a bunch of hard-nosed, older, competent players (not stars, unless we get lucky), with very few holes. And maybe we can get lucky and be able to pay a homegrown QB or DT once in a while, like a Simmons. Or Kamario if he pans out.
This is going to be our problem. There may be some schools that are on the cusp of being competitive in football and/or men's basketball that can and will encourage their baseball boosters to focus on one or both of those sports because the relatively small boost from baseball can move the needle. But there are going to be a good number of schools where either (1) there is enough money to go around (UTex, A&M, LSU, UF, etc) and the baseball amounts won't move the needle that much and also the boosters putting money into baseball will care about baseball more than the other sports or (2) they aren't really going to be competitive in the new landscape and moving money from baseball to football or basketball won't really change that, so there's no incentive for the boosters that care about baseball to divert their money.
We'll have to see where we shake out when schools start revenue sharing. I think you're going to have more separation then, where the big money schools pay enough on top of revenue sharing that the have-nots can't really compete, but the P4 have-nots are going to have such an advantage from revenue sharing that it ensures G5 schools can't compete with them. I think it will also possibly increase some stability, with the default compensation being enough that every player doesn't feel like they need to go see what they can make in the portal each year. But that depends on boosters getting tired of paying big money to marginal players.
We aren't investing big in baseball folks. It's time to realize, it too is a non-revenue sport
Ultimately, its a belief system within our fanbase. It might be 20% of fans, it might be 50% of fans that believe if we go all in with baseball we will be a year in, year out powerhouse.
Its not true. If we relegated our football team to go 0-12 and our basketball team to go 0-18 in the SEC every year and put all our money into baseball, we'd still be 3rd or 4th in our own conference.
The best plan for Mississippi State is the Kentucky approach.
We continue to be one of the top 10 spenders in college baseball but realize football is king. We build our football team up to a consistent 6-8 win team. Occasionally we bounce around and win 9-10 games. You do this by hiring great coaches that get the most out of the talent that we can get.
Oh wait, we did that in the 2010s and it worked and led to multiple CWS and a national championship in baseball.
When you extract the great coaches from Mississippi State, you get what we are seeing. \
Mississippi State's Great Coaches
Chris Jans - great coach. Are we disappointed in the tournament results, sure, but it beats the Rick Ray/most of Howland era.
Samantha Ricketts - great coach. She's going to get softball to the World Series in the next couple of years.
Matt Roberts - great coach. He has men's tennis back to where it should be. We'll be in the Sweet 16 or better this year.
Charlie Ewing - elite coach. What he's done is a minor miracle.
Mississippi State's Mid Coaches
Chris Woods - having some success but can't get the big recruits
Sam Purcell - Something is in the water here.
Julie Dennis - Struck lightning that one year but has struggled since
Everyone else on campus is terrible. Unfortunately that includes football and baseball.
Its not true. If we relegated our football team to go 0-12 and our basketball team to go 0-18 in the SEC every year and put all our money into baseball, we'd still be 3rd or 4th in our own conference.
The best plan for Mississippi State is the Kentucky approach.
We continue to be one of the top 10 spenders in college baseball but realize football is king. We build our football team up to a consistent 6-8 win team. Occasionally we bounce around and win 9-10 games. You do this by hiring great coaches that get the most out of the talent that we can get.
Oh wait, we did that in the 2010s and it worked and led to multiple CWS and a national championship in baseball.
When you extract the great coaches from Mississippi State, you get what we are seeing. \
Mississippi State's Great Coaches
Chris Jans - great coach. Are we disappointed in the tournament results, sure, but it beats the Rick Ray/most of Howland era.
Samantha Ricketts - great coach. She's going to get softball to the World Series in the next couple of years.
Matt Roberts - great coach. He has men's tennis back to where it should be. We'll be in the Sweet 16 or better this year.
Charlie Ewing - elite coach. What he's done is a minor miracle.
Mississippi State's Mid Coaches
Chris Woods - having some success but can't get the big recruits
Sam Purcell - Something is in the water here.
Julie Dennis - Struck lightning that one year but has struggled since
Everyone else on campus is terrible. Unfortunately that includes football and baseball.
I think we'll see that Nick Zimmerman (women's soccer) is a really good coach. Football and baseball coaches are the worst 2 on campus.
I didn't include Zimmerman because he hasnt coached a game. But yes, has a chance to be a good one.
agree... as stated, the money people in baseball largely come from outside the university. Its unlikely that those people that are funding the large portion of the NIL are just going to abruptly stop... especially when they are seeing their teams have success.
By the same token.. its unlikely the major conferences schools are going to suddenly defund baseball.. because they are as flush with cash as theyve ever been.. and because they have already invested so much into the facilites and programs... AND on top of that its not like any of the baseball budgets are enough to move the needle in football/mbkb
So to think we are going to magically return to the glory days just isnt going to happen. Keep in mind that our NIL fund is again nowhere near the TOP of the SEC and is continuing to drift towards the middle....
Saw an interview with Macey Hodge a couple of weeks ago. When she talked about her time at Mississippi State, she didn't even mention James Armstrong. But she did talk about Nick Zimmerman. And you didn't see any of our best returning players transfer out when the head coach left. They all stayed. You're right, he hasn't coached a game, and we will fall back some because of all the players we lost who are in professional soccer now. But I'm thinking Zimmerman is the real deal.
I think you're wrong on football, but we'll see. He's done a great job flipping this roster and getting players and he's not done. We cleared more roster spots already this week and are about to add some more guys.
Baseball doesn't need more money, it needs better leadership
I hope I'm wrong. But this roster doesn't look any better than last year's did, other than at backup QB.
That's encouraging but last season we just looked soooo bad with the little things. Certainly a lack of talent makes things look worse because you're more likely to pay for each mistake, but damn it was bad.
Baseball will continue to matter to the SEC. Missouri might be the only exception.
12 of 16 SEC programs have been to Omaha in the last four years. That doesn't include South Carolina, which won back-to-back national titles 14 years ago. These schools are not going to turn their backs on baseball.
12 of 16 SEC programs have been to Omaha in the last four years. That doesn't include South Carolina, which won back-to-back national titles 14 years ago. These schools are not going to turn their backs on baseball.
| school | last CWS appearance |
|---|---|
| Tennessee | 2024 |
| Florida | 2024 |
| Texas A&M | 2024 |
| Kentucky | 2024 |
| LSU | 2023 |
| Ole Miss | 2022 |
| Texas | 2022 |
| Oklahoma | 2022 |
| Arkansas | 2022 |
| Auburn | 2022 |
| Mississippi State | 2021 |
| Vanderbilt | 2021 |
| South Carolina | 2012 |
| Georgia | 2008 |
| Alabama | 1999 |
| Missouri | 1964 |
Taking finite resources away from football to fund a niche sport like baseball is a good way to find yourself in the Sun Belt in 10 years.
Let’s do this and treat MSU baseball as a revenue sport.
$20K for a Lounge spot on the wall. $15K for next level,$10K the Lounge Spots furthest away.
$100K annually for Left Field Condos. $15K for 4 seat Omaha Club/Lodge, $50K for Omaha suites,$2500 for a Chairback.
$20K for a Lounge spot on the wall. $15K for next level,$10K the Lounge Spots furthest away.
$100K annually for Left Field Condos. $15K for 4 seat Omaha Club/Lodge, $50K for Omaha suites,$2500 for a Chairback.
What's crazy to me is to see the fall of West Coast baseball. 3 teams in the top 25 - Oregon, Oregon State and UC Irvine.
This is correct. Instead, we're investing in a sport in which we suck the most, any amount that we do invest will forever be dwarfed by our peers, and then we're relying on an inexperienced AD and coaches to fill the gaps
We've got a failproof, brilliant plan I tell y'all
Really? I see a lot of changes and improvement, especially on the defense:
I am not sure you want to know it but the defense will be much better this year than last. You can book that. Offense? waiting to see a real OL before I say much.
yeah but a lot better would still make it bad. So how much of an improvement do you see... you sound rather confident.. keep in mind we couldnt stop the run against anyone last season.
One of the biggest changes we need on defense is the ability to line up correctly and generally be in a position to cover all eligible receivers. On the one hand, that should be one of if not the easiest things for a good coach to fix. But on the other, I'm not sure how you would be able to see that improvement in the off season.
That's not really a hard or fast rule according to articles I have read. Over the past few years college players have elevated in the eyes of MLB especially since they have fewer minor league teams than they used to.
Here is the AI overview from a google search:
This is a Baseball America Story on the 2024 draft. It says the sample is a little small to define a trend, but it is showing a healthy path to MLB.
2nd year in system, some good players added to go with what was here and then some coaches/analyst to aid in the coaching. I would expect improvement from all three areas.
Of course, we can't really tell right now but when did that ever stop people from seeing what looks improved to them.
The OL is my sticking point. Is it good enough to give Booth and Fluff running room and protect Shapen to keep him healthy? If Shapen stays healthy and OL plays well, that offense may be very much improved. But if OL stinks, it might be a long year.
If you have a unique brand in something few people care about that doesn't get you much if anything at all. You MIGHT get a "That's nice, bless their hearts" trophy.
Tell that to these organizations, and that you’re eliminating these sports:
UCONN WBB
Virginia Lacrosse
Alabama Gymnastics
MSU Frisbee Golf
Ole Miss Cross Burning Squad