The Program Is At A Major Crossroads...

[widespreadgt]

I'm seeing the same thing that happened with the fanbase when it came to basketball....Apathy. It started during Leach (Branch Leachvidians, sorry this is just a fact go look at the crowds last season). The same thing happened in basketball and we're finally recovering from that after years.

If Arnett doesn't make a bowl we have to fire him. You can argue we're Mississippi State and we can't risk that and my question is why not? What do we have to lose vs two more years of cratering the program when we're in an era where performances like that could have us being the next Oregon State or Wazzou.

When we make a change, I don't want to hear Mark Keenum or Selmon say we're hiring a guy that "fits Mississippi State". I don't want to hear how we're a bunch of hicks that have to have a "blue collar guy". I don't give a 17 if he wears a seersucker suit (before Labor Day) while sipping a mint julep, give me a guy that understands the portal, can fire up the fanbase, has an uptempo offense, and adapts to his talent.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

Being a "Mississippi State guy" should be the first red flag

 

[BigDawg0074]

Apathy with Leach had little to do with performance and results. Covid year aside they did as well or better than we have been used to with prior staffs. We had a good roster of offensive talent and were doing pretty well on defense. You are right that missing a bowl should result in Arnette getting fired.

 

[Spidey.sixpack]

I agree. We would've never promoted him had leach been fired or retired. It was unprecedented circumstances; coach dies and no AD to make the hire. Just admit to the guy that it isn't going to work out and we put him in a bad spot.

 

[widespreadgt]

Apathy with Leach had little to do with performance and results. Covid year aside they did as well or better than we have been used to with prior staffs. We had a good roster of offensive talent and were doing pretty well on defense. You are right that missing a bowl should result in Arnette getting fired.

Disagree, the offense system's lack of excitement and explosiveness. We won a chunk of those games in spite of the offense m.

 

[bolddogge]

Disagree, the offense system's lack of excitement and explosiveness. We won a chunk of those games in spite of the offense m.

Nail on the head widespread. Anyone that doesn't see it this way needs to rewatch last year's eggbowl. Defense won that game.

 

[SouthFarmchicken]

Disagree, the offense system's lack of excitement and explosiveness. We won a chunk of those games in spite of the offense m.

This is it completely. The games were incredibly boring and awful to watch. The triple option is more fun to watch than that crap.

Our defense was fun to watch at times because we forced turnovers and scored points that way.

 

[blitz2Win]

a 9-4 season led to widespread apathy ? somehow I think this view represents a tiny minority Of fans.

 

[Ranchdawg]

a 9-4 season led to widespread apathy ? somehow I think this view represents a tiny minority Of fans.

The "run the ballividians" have spoken!

 

[The Peeper]

a 9-4 season led to widespread apathy ? somehow I think this view represents a tiny minority Of fans.

I'm another one of them (raises hand). After about halfway through the first Leach season, I had to quit watching. Never been so bored at football games in my 50ish years of watching it. I was and still do tailgate and still buy season tickets (for my kids, friends, etc) but never even went to the stadium under Leach, and this year hasn't convinced me to go back.........

 

[blitz2Win]

The "run the ballividians" have spoken!

Yea 12-0 leads to widespread apathy if it isn’t the right “style” and Lacks “explosiveness” .

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Disagree, the offense system's lack of excitement and explosiveness. We won a chunk of those games in spite of the offense m.

Not sure if it was COVID, his offense, his personality, or some of the fallout from Moorhead, or all of the above, but there was definitely fan apathy. We had a little excitement this year but that was crushed quickly.

 

[Duke Humphrey]

Apathy hit with this fanbase on Sept 29,2018 when Mullen and his Gators came back in and beat MSU 13-6. The fans checked out then and have not checked back in.

 

[Ranchdawg]

I'm not arguing that our style of play wasn't boring. Ball control offense is boring especially when the defense is playing 3-8 defense. You just aren't going to throw over the defense which is why Arnett changed the offense. However, I'll take last years boring offense over what I'm witnessing this year.
When you are at a talent deficit you have to choose your battle carefully. Leach knew giving SEC offenses too much time on the field would spell disaster. They frustrated him with the 3-8 so he frustrated them by taking what they would give. He was a brilliant tactician.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Apathy hit with this fanbase on Sept 29,2018 Nov 11, 2017 when Mullen and his Gators came back in and beat MSU 13-6 lost to Bama and ultimately decided to leave no matter what. The fans checked out then and have not checked back in.

Fixed that for you.

But in all seriously, yeah it's all the same. Program hasn't been the same since then. And looking at the way it all turned out, just makes me mad. Why, Mullen, why? Did you really hate Starkville that much?

Of course, that being said, Jackie went the opposite way and fell apart after 10 years, so maybe it was the best move for Mullen, to at least try a blue blood program. I still just think he picked the wrong one.

 

[Drebin]

Apathy with Leach had little to do with performance and results. Covid year aside they did as well or better than we have been used to with prior staffs. We had a good roster of offensive talent and were doing pretty well on defense. You are right that missing a bowl should result in Arnette getting fired.

I disagree. We were a boring football team to watch under Leach. Nothing about his offense was sexy. Nothing about winning games with your defense is sexy. That's why you find yourself, even in the midst of a 13 year bowl streak, with 10k empty seats all the time.

 

[blitz2Win]

Well, it’s all a moot point anyways, we won’t have to worry about “boring wins” or “ugly wins” for several years. as painful as though wins were, they will be pretty rare for several years.

 

[The Peeper]

Yea 12-0 leads to widespread apathy if it isn’t the right “style” and Lacks “explosiveness” .

Which 12-0 team would you be speaking of, not many of those around......

 

[DawgSZN12]

Hit less than 6 wins and blow it up. There's a reason he's the 3rd lowest paid P5 HC in the country (lowest is actually Dickert & he's about to get a huge raise and then Key at GT). There's a reason even with a super low salary, his buyout is significantly less than multiplying years x base salary. It's not hard to see this going south fast starting the back end of October. There doesn't need to be some "well we gotta give him time, he's learning on the job, give him 2-3 years to figure it out". If our job had been open under normal circumstances, he doesn't even get an interview. If any P5 job opened up last cycle, he doesn't get an interview. Not even at Vandy, Stanford, Virginia, etc.. There's a reason for that. If our job was open under non incredibly tragic and shocking circumstances, we have a national search. If he can't take this roster and get to a bowl game, it's not getting better any time soon. Go after guys like Leipold, Dickert, Jonathan Smith, Charles Huff, Sean Lewis, GJ Kinne, Jamey Chadwell. Throw some cash around for gosh sakes. It takes $5-6M just to get an average coach nowadays. If OM and UK can fork up $9M, then we can fork up $7-9M to get the right guy here.

 

[ezsoil]

Ok for all of you fire every coach after every loss crowd .....what are the criteria that Keenum and Selmon should use to select Arnett's replacement ? what are the standards for keeping your job ? Will it be beating Alabama ? Beating Ole Miss? BeatIng LSU? Making a bowl? And if any of those are not met .....will they be fired immediately?

 

[DawgSZN12]

Ok for all of you fire every coach after every loss crowd .....what are the criteria that Keenum and Selmon should use to select Arnett's replacement ? what are the standards for keeping your job ? Will it be beating Alabama ? Beating Ole Miss? BeatIng LSU? Making a bowl? And if any of those are not met .....will they be fired immediately?

Can you list off the other P5 jobs that Arnett would have been given an interview for last cycle? I'd like to see the list.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I'm seeing the same thing that happened with the fanbase when it came to basketball....Apathy. It started during Leach (Branch Leachvidians, sorry this is just a fact go look at the crowds last season). The same thing happened in basketball and we're finally recovering from that after years.

If Arnett doesn't make a bowl we have to fire him. You can argue we're Mississippi State and we can't risk that and my question is why not? What do we have to lose vs two more years of cratering the program when we're in an era where performances like that could have us being the next Oregon State or Wazzou.

When we make a change, I don't want to hear Mark Keenum or Selmon say we're hiring a guy that "fits Mississippi State". I don't want to hear how we're a bunch of hicks that have to have a "blue collar guy". I don't give a 17 if he wears a seersucker suit (before Labor Day) while sipping a mint julep, give me a guy that understands the portal, can fire up the fanbase, has an uptempo offense, and adapts to his talent.

what about defense? that seems to be the biggest current issue. surely that makes the list

 

[widespreadgt]

Ok for all of you fire every coach after every loss crowd .....what are the criteria that Keenum and Selmon should use to select Arnett's replacement ? what are the standards for keeping your job ? Will it be beating Alabama ? Beating Ole Miss? BeatIng LSU? Making a bowl? And if any of those are not met .....will they be fired immediately?

Making it to high level bowls often, Being competitive for the 12 team playoff, Actually trying to be active in the portal and not "Running it back" with what you have, Making the pitch to our fans and boosters that we need NIL money to compete at the highest level and not just to "Bring Back" players we have, Being competitive and winning some games against LSU, Alabama, Georgia, Texas, & Oklahoma, Recruiting Nationally and in the Top 25 ever single year, Making it to a Bowl Game every single year...

 

[josebrown]

Well, it’s all a moot point anyways, we won’t have to worry about “boring wins” or “ugly wins” for several years. as painful as though wins were, they will be pretty rare for several years.

But we’ll be running***

 

[$altyDawg]

Apathy hit with this fanbase on Sept 29,2018 when Mullen and his Gators came back in and beat MSU 13-6. The fans checked out then and have not checked back in.

This loss stung hard. Damn you Osirus Mitchell!

 

[T-TownDawgg]

Apathy hit with this fanbase on Sept 29,2018 when Mullen and his Gators came back in and beat MSU 13-6. The fans checked out then and have not checked back in.

This is me.
The proclivity this program has to squander talent and opportunity transcends generations, AD’s, and coaching staffs.

For the first time in nearly two decades, the entire conference is down and instead of pulling together and capitalizing on the opportunity, MSU continues to produce nightmare fuel on the field and remains at the bottom. Every single coach has been guilty of it, and Administrations remain gutless surrender monkeys to step in and fix things out of fear of taking chances to be great.

The one time I thought Admin has finally grown some balls and things are looking up, was when Cohen fired that azzhat Jugghead. Aaaaand then he went out of his way to continue 17ing up the game day experience, left for barn and hired Freeze.

Winning fixes everything. Until admin and coaching staffs work together and stop looking like monkeys 17ing footballs, they dare call out alumni and fans about lack of gattdamn support.

To close, Offensive system guys should go get 17ed. Every jackass offensive coach’s “system” should be called “get first downs and score points”. For 17 sake, I thought li’ ok’ MSU could keep egos and politics out of it, but the jokes on us. I think I’ve finally learned my lesson to stay numb.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Ok for all of you fire every coach after every loss crowd .....what are the criteria that Keenum and Selmon should use to select Arnett's replacement ? what are the standards for keeping your job ? Will it be beating Alabama ? Beating Ole Miss? BeatIng LSU? Making a bowl? And if any of those are not met .....will they be fired immediately?

I'm not in the crowd you mentioned, but I'll play the game, because I enjoy that analyzation.

1) Offensive or defensive head coach does not matter. But the head guy needs to stay on his side of the ball, outside of #3.
2) Either be an experienced head coach in his 50s, or a coordinator with a solid resume (generally at least 5 years) of experience under an established, winning coach (generally on the head coach's side of the ball).
3) Be committed to an innovative run-based spread and a dual threat QB.
4) Defense is MSU's calling card, we can never be weak there. Most of our awful hapless seasons correspond with awful defensive drops. Most NIL is spent here.
5) Understands or is made to understand our recruiting footprint.

Funny - Arnett COULD and should fit into this list. But he violated some basic fundamental rules.

 

[FlotownDawg]

Those of you who pine for the days of King Jackie, those offenses were boring as hell. Go back and watch some of those games. Some of them were like pulling teeth. Defense and special teams won many games under Sherrill. But now all of a sudden, we need an explosive, point scoring offense to get fans to the stadium. Winning doesn’t matter anymore. I can’t believe I’d ever see a day where State fans would turn their nose up at a 9-4 season because the offense wasn’t exciting enough. But then again, we do have some really stupid fans.

 

[BigDawg0074]

Disagree, the offense system's lack of excitement and explosiveness. We won a chunk of those games in spite of the offense m.

Ah, so we didn’t win the right way. Winning just isn’t good enough for our fans.

 

[BigDawg0074]

a 9-4 season led to widespread apathy ? somehow I think this view represents a tiny minority Of fans.

It’s retarded, plain and simple. The Bulldogs didn’t win the way these simpletons thought they should. Winning isn’t good enough on its own. It sounds to me like some folks need an excuse for their own lack of support.

 

[BigDawg0074]

I'm not arguing that our style of play wasn't boring. Ball control offense is boring especially when the defense is playing 3-8 defense. You just aren't going to throw over the defense which is why Arnett changed the offense. However, I'll take last years boring offense over what I'm witnessing this year.
When you are at a talent deficit you have to choose your battle carefully. Leach knew giving SEC offenses too much time on the field would spell disaster. They frustrated him with the 3-8 so he frustrated them by taking what they would give. He was a brilliant tactician.

Leach’s team would run circles around this team and it’s the same roster!

 

[BigDawg0074]

Making it to high level bowls often, Being competitive for the 12 team playoff, Actually trying to be active in the portal and not "Running it back" with what you have, Making the pitch to our fans and boosters that we need NIL money to compete at the highest level and not just to "Bring Back" players we have, Being competitive and winning some games against LSU, Alabama, Georgia, Texas, & Oklahoma, Recruiting Nationally and in the Top 25 ever single year, Making it to a Bowl Game every single year...

If our fans don’t understand NIL and support it then they are content with losing, complaining, and blaming someone else.

 

[Yeti]

It’s part apathy and part economics….I loved Leach. Boring ? Coming back from 28-3 to whip Auburn at Auburn bored you? Blowing out A&M and Arkansas last year was boring? Yes there were bad games (Mullen had clunkers too South Alabama come to mind).but Leach won and winning isn’t boring. Let’s not forget they went 9/4 last year. Now the apathetic part is a 75 inch HD and AC. Hard not to be when most of us have to drive hours to get there. Which leads to economic im not paying a grand for 2 nights at a lquinta plus tickets and meals so it’s stay at home and watch…I’m apathetic toward the NIL I get it but I’m not paying 18 -22 years olds to play and to even visit. Add the cost of attendance and the cost of winning and I’m just going to enjoy from a distance

 

[Drebin]

Those of you who pine for the days of King Jackie, those offenses were boring as hell. Go back and watch some of those games. Some of them were like pulling teeth. Defense and special teams won many games under Sherrill. But now all of a sudden, we need an explosive, point scoring offense to get fans to the stadium. Winning doesn’t matter anymore. I can’t believe I’d ever see a day where State fans would turn their nose up at a 9-4 season because the offense wasn’t exciting enough. But then again, we do have some really stupid fans.

While this is very true, most teams ran similar offenses to us during that era. Really, the only exception was Spurrier at FL, and he was way ahead of his time.

Now you're seeing explosive offenses everywhere. So there's a lot more envy from our fan base because ours isn't. Even rat 5hit schools like Memphis and Tulane are explosive and scoring points.

 

[BigDawg0074]

It’s part apathy and part economics….I loved Leach. Boring ? Coming back from 28-3 to whip Auburn at Auburn bored you? Blowing out A&M and Arkansas last year was boring? Yes there were bad games (Mullen had clunkers too South Alabama come to mind).but Leach won and winning isn’t boring. Let’s not forget they went 9/4 last year. Now the apathetic part is a 75 inch HD and AC. Hard not to be when most of us have to drive hours to get there. Which leads to economic im not paying a grand for 2 nights at a lquinta plus tickets and meals so it’s stay at home and watch…I’m apathetic toward the NIL I get it but I’m not paying 18 -22 years olds to play and to even visit. Add the cost of attendance and the cost of winning and I’m just going to enjoy from a distance

I think most people can afford at least some support for the NIL fund. If folks care enough to come on this site regularly and discuss Bulldog sports then surely they care enough to donate something.

 

[Thumbs Down]

a 9-4 season led to widespread apathy ? somehow I think this view represents a tiny minority Of fans.

 

[TXDawg.sixpack]

Those of you who pine for the days of King Jackie, those offenses were boring as hell. Go back and watch some of those games. Some of them were like pulling teeth. Defense and special teams won many games under Sherrill. But now all of a sudden, we need an explosive, point scoring offense to get fans to the stadium. Winning doesn’t matter anymore. I can’t believe I’d ever see a day where State fans would turn their nose up at a 9-4 season because the offense wasn’t exciting enough. But then again, we do have some really stupid fans.

THIS! I used to cringe when Jackie's offense would take the field; holding my breath hoping they wouldn't 17 it up.

Who else remembers the game under Sherrill where our opponent won the opening toss, deferred, and Jackie chose to kickoff? We started both halves on defense. Let that sink in...

 

[olblue]

I'm seeing the same thing that happened with the fanbase when it came to basketball....Apathy. It started during Leach (Branch Leachvidians, sorry this is just a fact go look at the crowds last season). The same thing happened in basketball and we're finally recovering from that after years.

If Arnett doesn't make a bowl we have to fire him. You can argue we're Mississippi State and we can't risk that and my question is why not? What do we have to lose vs two more years of cratering the program when we're in an era where performances like that could have us being the next Oregon State or Wazzou.

When we make a change, I don't want to hear Mark Keenum or Selmon say we're hiring a guy that "fits Mississippi State". I don't want to hear how we're a bunch of hicks that have to have a "blue collar guy". I don't give a 17 if he wears a seersucker suit (before Labor Day) while sipping a mint julep, give me a guy that understands the portal, can fire up the fanbase, has an uptempo offense, and adapts to his talent.

There goes the sixpack neighborhood.

The end is near.

 

[olblue]

Ok for all of you fire every coach after every loss crowd .....what are the criteria that Keenum and Selmon should use to select Arnett's replacement ? what are the standards for keeping your job ? Will it be beating Alabama ? Beating Ole Miss? BeatIng LSU? Making a bowl? And if any of those are not met .....will they be fired immediately?

Let’s hope these Gene Page newbies stick to the pay board.

 

[widespreadgt]

There goes the sixpack neighborhood.

The end is near.

@ you and Goat.