This isn't what we got!
- Thread starter Sparklecity
- Start date
Without any qualification, Dabo is an excellent college football coach.
I know USC fans are not allowed to look at it objectively, but it's true. In the entire history of college football, only 25 coaches have won multiple titles and he's one of them.
I know USC fans are not allowed to look at it objectively, but it's true. In the entire history of college football, only 25 coaches have won multiple titles and he's one of them.
You are correct. Also, Dabo walked into a pretty good situation. Credit Terry Don Phillips and Tommy Bowden for being grown men and agreeing it was time to end that relationship BEFORE things went off the rails. He didn't have a roster rebuild to perform. Hell, he helped build a lot of that roster. He just needed to optimize it. Beamer has a much different kind of job.
Now go back to Tiger net.
Honestly, why is this tater propaganda here?? Ridiculous.
Maybe I'm beginning to become senile or maybe my age is getting the better of me, what in the hell is that orange crap doing on a GAMECOCK website!!!!!!!??????!!!!!!
I have no idea the point of the OP. I merely took it as an opportunity to state some truths that I knew would aggravate some vaginas (to borrow your terminology).
It worked.
It's not all about being a football technician. It's about getting all the right people assembled and pulling together. Dabo has proven himself capable in that area. The trick to longevity is to effectively retool when people move on. Even Saban has been sorely tested in that regard, so it's not surprising that Dabo should be likewise challenged.
Indeed, the hallmark of Saban's tenure has been a having his assistants routinely picked off the off-season and having to plug in new personnel but continuing to win at a high level. He's won titles with 5 different OCs and 3 different DCs, which is remarkable.
I think Dabo had the good fortune of being at a football-first school playing in a basketball-first conference, as Florida State went on a downward spiral. Why any clemson fan wants to join the SEC, is beyond me. I feel certain that Dabo does not.
You can't make a monumental decision on the basis of what the current coach wants. FSU did that back in 91. Now they're in a league they want to get out of but are stuck in.
Why is this garbage being posted on a Gamecock message board?
Dabo is an excellent recruiter. He had been great at assembling the right people all going in the right direction. That's where he's struggled the last couple years.
He is definitely not a great football technician. His in-game coaching decisions have or should have cost them quite a few wins over the years. Typically the talent level was able to overcome these mistakes. Throwing the ball late in a bowl game against LSU comes to mind as one such mistake. The trick play on the kickoff against Carolina last year. The Sammy Watkins pass in 2013 against Carolina. Etc, etc, etc.
I posted this because of the one line, " I got this job 3 yrs ago and 2 days." That's what a good coach does and some are saying let's give Shane 5 years. 3 years is plenty enough time to see where things are going.
"Three years is plenty enough time to see where things are going."
2008: Bowden 3-3 Swinney 4-3 Pre-Season Ranking 9th
*2009: Swinney 9-5 Pre-Season Ranking Unranked
2010: Swinney 6-7 Pre-Season Ranking Unranked
*(1-4 against ranked teams in 2009)
Totals (W/L) 19-15 first three seasons
(Wins/Total Games) x 100
Winning Percentage 55.88%
2021: Beamer 7-6 Pre-season Unranked
2022: Beamer 8-5 Pre-season Unranked
2023 Beamer 3-6 (3-9; 4-8; 5-7; or 6-6) Preseason Unranked
Totals *18-17 to date Best Finish 21-17 (55.26%) Worst 18-20 (47.36%)
Swinney took over a team that was ranked in the Top 10 going into 2008. Beamer took over a team that was coming off a 2-8 season. So who exactly had an easier time replacing and rebuilding his team in their first full year? No one can argue that Swinney has not done a remarkable job while at Clemson University. But as a 1980 graduate of South Carolina and being (now) 65 years of age, when it comes to all things Clemson, I can truly understand the feelings of Tommy Lee Jones in the movie "The Fugitive".
2008: Bowden 3-3 Swinney 4-3 Pre-Season Ranking 9th
*2009: Swinney 9-5 Pre-Season Ranking Unranked
2010: Swinney 6-7 Pre-Season Ranking Unranked
*(1-4 against ranked teams in 2009)
Totals (W/L) 19-15 first three seasons
(Wins/Total Games) x 100
Winning Percentage 55.88%
2021: Beamer 7-6 Pre-season Unranked
2022: Beamer 8-5 Pre-season Unranked
2023 Beamer 3-6 (3-9; 4-8; 5-7; or 6-6) Preseason Unranked
Totals *18-17 to date Best Finish 21-17 (55.26%) Worst 18-20 (47.36%)
Swinney took over a team that was ranked in the Top 10 going into 2008. Beamer took over a team that was coming off a 2-8 season. So who exactly had an easier time replacing and rebuilding his team in their first full year? No one can argue that Swinney has not done a remarkable job while at Clemson University. But as a 1980 graduate of South Carolina and being (now) 65 years of age, when it comes to all things Clemson, I can truly understand the feelings of Tommy Lee Jones in the movie "The Fugitive".
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That boy up at Tennessee coached his team into losing their bowl game a couple of years ago by slinging incomplete passes when he should have been working the ball down the field to win without leaving any time. No way he should have lost that game. It was the same kind of mistake you're talking about.
Oh we've got people on here talking about giving Shane SEVEN years, irrespective of won/loss record. I like him and all but that's crazy. Nowadays, the recruits you need to win have to be able see a road to glory during their time, not somebody else's.
Haha. He said that a week after we kicked his ***, and a couple of weeks prior to the most embarrassing bowl loss in the BCS era.
On top of that, he had a little different starting place, don’t you think??
O.K, yall have convinced me. Maybe we should give Biden 5 years too, he might get this thing turned around.
Or...maybe we could just do what we always do....fire the coach after 4-5 years. It has worked swimmingly for the last 120 yrs.
Only Muschamp has been fired in the last 25 years, and his tenure was clearly over when he got the axe 4.5 years in. Holtz retired. Spurrier quit.
The last time a Carolina football coach had fewer than 5 years to get things done was Richard Bell in 1982. Every coach since then got at least 5 years, and I'm not sure which of those coaches you'd argue should have gotten longer.
If you go further back, the last time a coach got fewer than 5 years prior to Bell was Johnnie McMillan in 1945.
Firing coaches too quickly is not Carolina's problem.
This is a little disingenuous though, right? You're calling a partial year as interim coach his first year, in order to not include his real 3rd year where he won 10 games.
And he took over a team that was ranked in the top 10 Preseason, but that played well enough to get their head coach fired mid season.
He did take over a better situation, if only because of there schedule, imo.
I don't think we want to compare Beamer to Dabo with wins and losses. It's not a good (or fair) comparison to Beamer, and it's only going to get worse in the near future.
Not true...Bass, Bell, Sparky and Brad all got 4. I don't know who I would've given longer. I'm just using high level math...since 1960 we've had 11 HCs....5.5 years per coach. And HBC's time here dramatically skews that number. We're either incredibly inept at finding a quality coach, or we're not giving guys enough time....or we're hiring guys out of the retirement home.
Maybe the Mark Stoops method is needed here. As long as you have a guy that's putting a competitive product on the field, that's bringing in talent, that's developing a good culture and keeping guys out of trouble, you give him a little time. I'm just saying perhaps 3 years is a little early for pearl clutching.
That team he took over had a bunch of talent on it, even in 2009.
QB - Dabo had Kyle Parker, Beamer had Jason Brown/Zeb Noland
RB - Dabo had CJ Spiller and Andre Ellington, Beamer had Kevin Harris coming off of back surgery and Z White.
WR/TE - Dabo had Jacoby Ford, Michael Palmer, Xavier Dye...Beamer had Josh Vann, Bell, Muse. Maybe that's a push??
But the biggest difference in the two was Clem was able to make an internal hire and keep guys in the boat. Beamer didn't have that luxury. We had 5-6 guys quit mid season when we fired Muschamp. The starting point for both is night and day.
Marvin Bass got 5 years...1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965
Richard Bell got 1 year...1982
Sparky Woods got 5 years...1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993
Brad Scott got 5 years...1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998
I agree completely though with your second paragraph and the premise of your argument. If a coach is building a competitive product, stick with him. If Beamer is recruiting well and putting a competitive product on the field, then let him do his thing even if the wins take longer to get there.
Don't really disagree with any of that.
I mainly didn't like yo see a half year as an interim coach called the "first year", so that Dabos third year of 10 wins could be buried.
Basically, there was a trajectory there at Clemson that we're not seeing here. So I don't think it's a good comparison.
I am not trying to bury anything regarding the ten wins in his third full year at Clemson. I made it clear that no one could argue he has not done a remarkable job while at Clemson. But he did coach 7 games as the HC his first season (4-3) and was on the staff of that program the entire year. To ignore that fact is to bury it too, is it not? They were ranked in the Top Ten before getting curb-stomped by Alabama in Atlanta that first game. Does the coaching staff not share in the success or failure of any program (Brent Venables comes to mind)? My numbers and retort dealt specifically with the ascertion "Three years is plenty enough time to see where things are going." from another member. The fact they did not run Swinney off after going 6-7 and having a winning percentage of 55.88% as HC from 2008-2010 proves it. The comparison of wins and loses over the course of a career between Swinney and Beamer has nothing to do with that central argument.
Firing someone before they can establish their own program is a mistake in my opinion. There are plenty of fans that do not believe Beamer is the answer. I get that. At a minimum, I still think each coach should get four years. Maybe even five now that people can jump into the transfer portal at the drop of a hat. Losing Bell, Lloyd, Burch, and Wells (to injury) all contributed to another bad season of South Carolina football. As for your quote "...there was a trajectory there at Clemson that we're not seeing here", that could be applied to just about every other football program in the NCAA these past twelve years. Even those with a rich history of football traditions (something unfortunately our school does not have). But my bottom line remains the same. As for "ALL things Clemson" and someone posting "The best Video you will see all day", I clearly echo these thoughts "I don't care!"
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I don't mean to "bury" that partial year as interim coach, i would just prefer to see it labeled as it really was. A partial year, of interim coaching.
And that Preseason rankings g isn't worth much (are they ever?l compared to the team they were fielding. They were 3-3, and playing badly enough to have their coach fired mid season when he took over.
I agree, 3 years is too soon to can a coach. Beamer will be here next year, and unless the wheels really come off, he'll be here the next year. But the poster made a good point. In 3 years, you should start to see where things are going.
But comparing third years? Beamer has fallen down, underachieving. Dabo won 10 games his third season. There is a definite difference in that trajectory.
I agree, but it would be better to let a few more people get p!$$ed off at him first. Right now, they would start some disagreements, maybe even fisticuffs.
We could do rivaling shirts.I agree, but it would be better to let a few more people get p!$$ed off at him first. Right now, they would start some disagreements, maybe even fisticuffs.
At least 6 to get it fixed!